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Arronax, it's easily related, there were hundreds of NATO/UN troops there, they literally stood by and watched the carnage. Nice work. RandomDude: No, they were there to keep the peace, they failed miserably, and tens of thousands died for it. It must have been hell for them to sit there...

Arronax, UN & Nato troops care more about human life? Look this up, I'll let you learn on your own: Srebrenica Massacre Those troops could have stopped it, it may have cost them their lives, but they could have stopped it. So gimme a break with that EU, UN, NATO superiority bull...

I have to laugh at some of the comments here such as "bloodthirsty". Stupidity at it's finest, if just shooting civilians was all these guys had in mind then there are about 22 million targets (maybe 8-9 less after this one) all over Iraq and they could go hog wild up there. Fact is usually...

Agree with Cim. A lot of people just think the government will screw up health care, not that it's bad in general. Most people don't care if it's socialist or not. A perfect example of government run health care is Walter Reed hospital. Absolute disgrace. Shov

Simple, Didn't realize I was fighting with anyone, just talking about an issue that's directly related to several other issues. Sorry ya'll see it that way. The thread title clearly is refering to the US proposal. So I don't feel I'm off topic at all. I just don't compartmentalize...

Tag, what do you base that on, seeing as how no one quite knows any numbers yet? Sander, btw, through the course of discussing with you and others today a thought occured to me. I think that another big reason why Americans are put off by the whole think is the lack openness, the idea of...

Cost less over all perhaps, but it will cost more for the upper and middle class. In terms of someone in my family getting sick that's why I have comprehensive health coverage now. Are you trying to tell me that the health care package they are trying to pass will cost me less than the...

Sander, let me put it a different way. I don't have any hard numbers to work with yet, as it hasn't been passed yet, so bear with me. Let's say that instead of the 15% tax I pay now, it gets raised to 38-40% of my income, but all the health care is now no cost as time of service. (That...

Dude is that all you want? That's easy, they want to tax us more, and people don't want to pay more. They've already voted to a tax increase to start this year, even though any real health care reform is 4-5 years away yet. If congress could figure a way taxes stay more or less the same...

Sander, I haven't tried to attack BN at all. And wouldn't do such a thing. If anyone is on the offensive it'd be you. He mentioned Fox News and the Right and obedience and so on. Which affects things, but not needed in the conversation. Obama was elected due to most Americans wanting...

Easy you get married. You fill out the paper work. More importantly, send in the fees with the paper work. (Around $1000 at the time) And if approved, 3-6 months later you have residency. Then 3 years later you are eligable for citizenship. Assuming you don't screw up somehow, break...

Simple, it's not that I think it won't succeed ever. Just the current incarnation seems not so great. The main problem I have is that they've stripped a lot of choices right out of the thing. This is a free market, choices are what I want. And so do most other americans. @ Brother None...

LOL @ Sander..... I don't just live near 'em, I live with 'em. I married one. Hah. What I was saying is the problem (cost) with treating illegals is more obvious around these parts. However, I don't think we should stop treating them either, catch 22? Shov.

Actually it strengthens my stance. We are the most expensive (a fact I haven't denied btw), under universal health care we will be even more so. The US government doesn't tend to handle money well, nor most health care. Look at Walter Reed, that is an example of government health care, war...

30 million people don't have health coverage in the US. More or less 10-12% of the population. Now what our glorious leaders want to do is scrap the health care for the other 270 million Americans to make life easier for those 30 million whom don't. Makes great sense eh? Anyone stop to...

Ask, you could be right, glad we didn't have to find out. Sander, I'm glad you conceded at least that much. The amount of equipment was immense.

GM, can speak for himself, but it seems your mind is made up Sander, are you able to be convinced? Doubt it. I'm all for reasonable discussion, but you seem to just ignore that 1000s of vehicles and countless tons of food sent to the USSR made a major difference....they were starving in many...

Eh, nevermind

Crni Vuk's last post says it all really. USSR not only needed the supplies, completely depended on them. Also, a lot of speculation regarding wether USSR would have romped the rest of Europe, maybe, but I tend to think that after losing millions of people both civi's/soldiers they'd of...

Hah, GM, funny cause it's true. Had a competent leader been in charge of the Reich heaven help humanity. The world would be vastly different.