$700 Billion bailout first denied, later approved
- Thread starter Makagulfazel
- Start date
Yup, my investments/401K are getting the hell beat out of them this year.
Re: $700 Billion bailout denied (For now)
Because while some might believe the former, it's the latter that is actually happening. It proves politicians are slaves to the voters, though. So notch one up for the Democracy, I guess.
But a rescue plan needs to happen, and it needs to happen quickly lest a severe recession hits.
This isn't some plan to save some friendly jobs, it's a plan to save the average citizen from feeling the effects of a Wall Street meltdown.
It's surprisingly funny to see half of the shortsighted US citizens going 'Noes fuck this plan I don't want to pay more taxes!' while there were a lot of policies that hit the governmental budget much harder over the years, but that they never complained about.
Wait, is that remark going 'Hahaha we non-elites sure blocked that elitist plan', or is it 'Hahaha elitist bastards are fucking us over by denying these plans.'Makagulfazel said:
Because while some might believe the former, it's the latter that is actually happening. It proves politicians are slaves to the voters, though. So notch one up for the Democracy, I guess.
But a rescue plan needs to happen, and it needs to happen quickly lest a severe recession hits.
This isn't some plan to save some friendly jobs, it's a plan to save the average citizen from feeling the effects of a Wall Street meltdown.
It's surprisingly funny to see half of the shortsighted US citizens going 'Noes fuck this plan I don't want to pay more taxes!' while there were a lot of policies that hit the governmental budget much harder over the years, but that they never complained about.
Printing out more monopoly money will definitely solve the problem.
It sucks. I know it sucks. Either way, the economy in the United States is fucked because we entrusted a bunch of bankers to control our economy - and this is where they have taken us. Supplying $700 billion dollars to dumbfucks that did bad business is only going to delay, yet worsen, the recession we are already experiencing. Corrections have to happen sometime, especially when your country isn't producing shit.
EDIT:
...especially when your country isn't producing shit, yet has been spending trillions of dollars on two wars we have NO FUCKING BUSINESS BEING IN. The War on Drugs(marijuana) and the War on Terror.
It sucks. I know it sucks. Either way, the economy in the United States is fucked because we entrusted a bunch of bankers to control our economy - and this is where they have taken us. Supplying $700 billion dollars to dumbfucks that did bad business is only going to delay, yet worsen, the recession we are already experiencing. Corrections have to happen sometime, especially when your country isn't producing shit.
EDIT:
...especially when your country isn't producing shit, yet has been spending trillions of dollars on two wars we have NO FUCKING BUSINESS BEING IN. The War on Drugs(marijuana) and the War on Terror.
This rescue plan isn't about giving people more money to continue doing the same thing.Makagulfazel said:
It is about giving people money so that the *entire economy* doesn't collapse entirely. And yes, this will help.
Yes, these insitutions are collapsing and tightening up because things went badly wrong. But unless you want things to get much, much worse, something needs to be done; and by something, I mean pumping money into these firms and into the economy to stop it from stagnating a la the Great Depression (note - this isn't on the level of the Great Depression nor is it getting there, but it is structurally similar; and if there's one thing the Great Depression taught is, it is that spending money is the key).
I know that the quick reaction is to go "Fuck those bankers why are we giving them money." But that reaction in itself shows that you don't understand the situation not just those bankers are in, but all of the US economy is in.
Sander said:
Whichever one does end up happening - one of us will look like a dumbass because it's not going to be the cure-it-all. If we can keep printing off money and dicking around India, China, etc. I'm all for it. Their loss. But eventually they are going to tell the U.S. to go suck one, and the more debt we incur, the worse the effects will be.
We'll see.. For now, I'm not worried about my tax money, I just don't want to see these businesses given a second chance while increasing the power of the federal government to control the financial markets.
Of course it isn't a cure-it-all. But it is something that needs to happen to allow any cure to happen at all.Makagulfazel said:
Foreign debts aren't really all that relevant for the bail-out.Makagulfazel said:
Again - this gut reaction is going to fuck you over in the long term, specifically because it's a stupid gut reaction.Makagulfazel said:
Allowing these businesses to go under will be much, much, much worse for you than 'punishing' them for the current state of affairs.
Sander said:
I can see where you're coming from. But I believe this cure will be a band-aid on a bullet wound. Different theories, and unfortunately, we won't ever know which will have worked better.
Sander said:
Where is the money coming from then? Printing off more money affects all other economies, so how wouldn't this be relevant?
Sander said:
More banks will rise to take over - trust me. And that is what should happen. The Federal government has no reason to own or control near-worthless assets in a commercial business.
EDIT:
If anything, the government should implement more regulations(OMG! Yes, I said it) to these financial institutions so this doesn't happen again. The government should not intervene with the problems that the banking institutions caused, but the guilty parties should be penalized, not rewarded for what they have done. We, as a nation, need to learn from our mistakes and not expect to borrow money from across the globe to compensate for the bad business we harbored and they, unfortunately, dealt with.
What the fuck? They're not randomly printing more money, they're financing this by increasing taxes next year. So the money comes largely out of your pockets.
More banks will rise to take over from where? Pixieland? Why would the government not take over 'near-worthless assets' while profit-oriented banks would?
Sander said:
Dude. Lol. Hate to break it to you, but our tax dollars won't even cover the two wars we are in and pay interest on our existing debt. Much less finance a bailout for shit-tastic companies.
Sander said:
No, they won't buy the worthless assets - those will liquidate. Shitty, I know, but banks will rise afterwords. Until then, keep your assets in hands you can trust - your own. Preferably in the form of some tangible item of value(Precious non-coined metal).
The 700 billion will be financed by tax increases. In effect, they will not require *extra* external financial loans.Makagulfazel said:
Unless you like contributing to a downfall of the financial system, please don't hoard your money.Makagulfazel said:
Sander said:
That's about 2.4k per person. Not just taxpayer, but person. That's like a 50-300% tax increase depending on how big your household is/what income you make. I have my doubts as to whether the government actually plans to carry this tax out or if the government will decide to just step in again.
Sander said:
True. But I plan to not throw my money into a "machine" that is only going to give me back times .xx amount. You can actually buy precious metal commodities and not hoard them at your house. Supposedly it's certified(The Dad does it), but I'm very skeptical of everything lately.
TheGM
The voice of reason
And to think less the 8 years ago we had a surplus of a Trillion dollars!
Only one thing can save us now. manufacturing.
Only one thing can save us now. manufacturing.
welsh
Junkmaster
Alas, the economy begins to melt. Maybe its time to stock up on canned food and shotguns.
D
Deleted member 53669
Guest
TheGM said:
Yeah, manufacturing shit people won't buy because they have no money.
Good idea.
What we really need is new industry like... now.
Get the helium-3 deposits off the moon and start a full fledged mining operation, and harness the power of helium 3, with lots of jobs. It's the only resource we have left on this entire earth besides oil deposits under icecaps.
It's an economic system based on growth that has nowhere to go, and no one is noticing it. It's rather sad and pathetic.
*EDIT*
Welcome to the future.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8xI3GznxbM&feature=related[/youtube]
memememememememememe </beaker>
its a highly complex system. this temporary setback will only lead to new "business ideas", some people will earn enough money to buy one or two central european countries, and in 4 months all will be back to normal. i dont exactly know what 401k is (must be some long-term investment for your old ages, possibly with some country sponsoring), but that will eventually return to your expected outcome minus some "fees".
otoh, if this really fucks up, well all die anyway. since there is no event that could crash the whole system except an all-out nuclear war, and then the stock market will be less of a priority to worry about.
its a highly complex system. this temporary setback will only lead to new "business ideas", some people will earn enough money to buy one or two central european countries, and in 4 months all will be back to normal. i dont exactly know what 401k is (must be some long-term investment for your old ages, possibly with some country sponsoring), but that will eventually return to your expected outcome minus some "fees".
otoh, if this really fucks up, well all die anyway. since there is no event that could crash the whole system except an all-out nuclear war, and then the stock market will be less of a priority to worry about.
Cimmerian Nights
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Next motherfucker who uses that trite "we gotta help Main Street, not Wall Street" cliche is getting kicked right in the nuts.
TheGM
The voice of reason
Dopemine Cleric said:
Thank you. I know it is a good idea.