OK, this post will be a bit long.
Here are some tables showing the effects of Fast Shot trait in current FO1/2 (I hope the forums can support proper tables):
Notes for the tables:
1. Ranged weapon: a weapon that has range > 2.
2. Melee/Unarmed weapon: a weapon that has range <= 2.
3. Unarmed attacks: no weapon in the active item slot, i.e. bare hands.
FO1 in-game description:
If we go by the manual, the FastShotFix was never needed because the vanilla game behavior already did what the manual said, and the setting 2 was never the real "Fallout 1 behavior" (it's largely due to my carelessness when writing descriptions to add all hidden options in sfall back in ddraw.ini during 3.6-3.7).
I think the main idea of the fix by Haenlomal is about applying the effects equally (I do hope he would show up for some replies):
If you attack faster than normal people (-1 AP cost), you don't have time to aim (no aimed shots); if you cannot attack faster, you should have time to aim like normal people do.
New Vegas also limits the effects to ranged weapons only.
So here are some ideas on changing FastShotFix:
1. Check the attack/weapon subtype (in the engine there are types of Unarmed/Melee/Guns/Throwing) instead of the weapon range to determine if a weapon is really a ranged weapon, in case someone wants to make some bizarre weapons like a fantasy knife with 10 hexes range or a pocket pistol that can only shoot 2 hexes range.
If that's the case, the first column of the tables will be like this:
2. Add a new setting for a new behavior closer to FO1, or something in the middle of the current setting 1 and 2, for example:
3. Overhaul the settings with different combinations, for example:
My preference is the effects should apply equally (has the benefit, has the drawback; no benefit, no drawback). If someone likes to have the effects applied unequally, it's easy to change AP cost for weapons in a hook script. What's you guys' opinions?
EDIT: OK, the incoming changes will be minor, not something dramatic or game-changing:
1. Change the simple range check to a weapon type+range combo check. The "ranged weapon" has to be Guns or Throwing type and with a range >= 2. This works as an additional fix to the FO2 default (=0) and Haenlomal's fix (=1).
2. Add the original FO1 behavior as the new setting 3. The setting 1 and 2 are unchanged.
Here are some tables showing the effects of Fast Shot trait in current FO1/2 (I hope the forums can support proper tables):
Code:
FO1:
|Weapon/Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|---------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons | YES | YES |
|Melee/Unarmed weapons| YES | YES |
|Unarmed attacks | NO | YES |
FO2 vanilla:
|Weapon/Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|---------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons | YES | YES |
|Melee/Unarmed weapons| NO | YES |
|Unarmed attacks | NO | YES |
FastShotFix=1 (Haenlomal's fix, sfall default since 2.13 from 10 years ago):
|Weapon/Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|---------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons | YES | YES |
|Melee/Unarmed weapons| NO | NO |
|Unarmed attacks | NO | NO |
FastShotFix=2:
|Weapon/Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|---------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons | YES | YES |
|Melee/Unarmed weapons| YES | YES |
|Unarmed attacks | YES | YES |Notes for the tables:
1. Ranged weapon: a weapon that has range > 2.
2. Melee/Unarmed weapon: a weapon that has range <= 2.
3. Unarmed attacks: no weapon in the active item slot, i.e. bare hands.
FO1 in-game description:
- You don't have time to aim for a targeted attack, because you attack faster than normal people. It costs you one less action point to use a weapon.
- You cannot perform targeted shots, but all weapons have AP -1 to use.
- You don't have time to aim for a targeted attack, because you attack faster than normal people. It costs you one less action point for guns and thrown weapons.
- (page 27) You will not even be able to switch to targeted shot mode if you are a Fast Shot.
- (page 42) If you have selected the Fast Shot trait for your character, you cannot make targeted shots, and you will never see the targeted shot icon.
- (page 130) Characters that have the Fast Shot trait will never even see the targeted shot icon.
If we go by the manual, the FastShotFix was never needed because the vanilla game behavior already did what the manual said, and the setting 2 was never the real "Fallout 1 behavior" (it's largely due to my carelessness when writing descriptions to add all hidden options in sfall back in ddraw.ini during 3.6-3.7).
I think the main idea of the fix by Haenlomal is about applying the effects equally (I do hope he would show up for some replies):
If you attack faster than normal people (-1 AP cost), you don't have time to aim (no aimed shots); if you cannot attack faster, you should have time to aim like normal people do.
New Vegas also limits the effects to ranged weapons only.
So here are some ideas on changing FastShotFix:
1. Check the attack/weapon subtype (in the engine there are types of Unarmed/Melee/Guns/Throwing) instead of the weapon range to determine if a weapon is really a ranged weapon, in case someone wants to make some bizarre weapons like a fantasy knife with 10 hexes range or a pocket pistol that can only shoot 2 hexes range.
If that's the case, the first column of the tables will be like this:
Code:
| Attack types |
|------------------------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)|
|Melee weapons |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) |2. Add a new setting for a new behavior closer to FO1, or something in the middle of the current setting 1 and 2, for example:
Code:
* range check replaced with subtype check
FastShotFix=1 (modified Haenlomal's fix, still the default):
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee weapons | NO | NO |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) | NO | NO |
FastShotFix=2 ("alternative" behavior):
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee weapons | YES | YES |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) | YES | YES |
FastShotFix=3 ("tweaked" FO1 behavior):
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee + Unarmed "weapons" | YES | YES |
|Unarmed attacks (bare hands) | NO | NO |3. Overhaul the settings with different combinations, for example:
Code:
New settings (replacing range check with subtype check):
FastShotFix=1:
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee weapons | YES | YES |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) | NO | NO |
FastShotFix=2: (FO1 behavior)
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee weapons | YES | YES |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) | NO | YES |
FastShotFix=3: (just like vanilla FO2, but with different check for "ranged" weapons)
| Attack types |-1 AP cost|No aimed shots|
|------------------------------|----------|--------------|
|Ranged weapons (Guns/Throwing)| YES | YES |
|Melee weapons | NO | YES |
|Unarmed (weapons/bare hands) | NO | YES |My preference is the effects should apply equally (has the benefit, has the drawback; no benefit, no drawback). If someone likes to have the effects applied unequally, it's easy to change AP cost for weapons in a hook script. What's you guys' opinions?
EDIT: OK, the incoming changes will be minor, not something dramatic or game-changing:
1. Change the simple range check to a weapon type+range combo check. The "ranged weapon" has to be Guns or Throwing type and with a range >= 2. This works as an additional fix to the FO2 default (=0) and Haenlomal's fix (=1).
2. Add the original FO1 behavior as the new setting 3. The setting 1 and 2 are unchanged.
Last edited:
