Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2

[The_Proletarian]

Gothic Armada 2 keeps popping up in my feed. I get a lot of influencers saying it is good. But how can I trust them? It's probably just a modern day marketing campaign using influencers instead of regular adds to target fans of strategy games.

A better way to find out is to ask for honest opinions here on NMA. So what say you?

 

[Atomkilla]

I haven't played it, but all 40k friendly fanatics of mine (or was it fanatical friends?) say it's wonderful.
I'm personally buying it on Summer Sale. It's the first game in the post-Gathering Storm setting, that is, the Dark Imperium. I gotta play that.
Cadia Stands

 

[Black Angel]

I haven't played it, but all 40k friendly fanatics of mine (or was it fanatical friends?) says it's wonderful.
I'm personally buying it on Summer Sale. It's the first game in the post-Gathering Storm setting, that is, the Dark Imperium. I gotta play that.
Cadia Stands

Well, damn. I guess I'll be buying it too. From the looks of it, the first game is a mixed bag either on Steam or on the Codex. What does your friends says about the first one?

 

[Atomkilla]

Well, damn. I guess I'll be buying it too. From the looks of it, the first game is a mixed bag either on Steam or on the Codex. What does your friends says about the first one?

Not much except that the sequel is better. To be fair though, all of them are big fans of Dark Imperium, which is probably a big contributing factor.

 

[BigGuyCIA]

Looks like I got something to pick up this weekend. Looks fun.

 

[Chromevod]

I'm enjoying it quite a bit! Some light 4x elements on top of a solid enough RTS for the main meat of the game in single player. There's also three of these campaigns to go through, The Imperium, Necrons, and surprisingly Tyranids! There's talk of a fourth campaign to be added later as well. There's also campaign co-op but I haven't tried it and is supposedly in an "early-access" state. Take that as you will, I'm not entirely sure where that's at. But I think it's a worthy sequel.

ONE THING TO NOTE: There's no skirmish progression like there was in the first game. For multiplayer/random AI battles there's no fleet or ship progression. There's no holdover from one skirmish to the next in terms of damage to your ships. Your ships are completely expendable in each and every match. This is both a good and bad thing in my book. That skirmish progression and consequence system was a really cool part about the first game, but this new method makes it a bit easier to just jump in and play with whatever ships you can fit in your fleet within points value.

Honestly I wish both were in the game just as different modes, but campaign is meaty enough to fill that gap in my heart.

 

[The_Proletarian]

What the heck I just bought it. Let's see if these influences are true

 

[cronicler]

Depending on one's tastes, it's a solid 6 or 7* game with quite a bit of play time.
It... does it's fair share of issues but about half of the time these stem from the inherent idiotics of the Neu-WH40k so there wasn't much that could be done to staunch the tide of ill-logic.





*On the realistic scale not the artificially inflated "8 or crap" scale.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

I hope it's easy to mod, and becomes the new Star Wars EaW or SoaSE. I would love to see Logh in this modern engine.

 

[Atomkilla]

Depending on one's tastes, it's a solid 6 or 7* game with quite a bit of play time.
It... does it's fair share of issues but about half of the time these stem from the inherent idiotics of the Neu-WH40k so there wasn't much that could be done to staunch the tide of ill-logic.





*On the realistic scale not the artificially inflated "8 or crap" scale.

Which inherent idiotics of Neu-WH40k are you referring to?

 

[Black Angel]

Which inherent idiotics of Neu-WH40k are you referring to?

I'm not sure about 'idiotics', but the one thing I kind of noticed is how they now referred to the Eldar as the 'Aeldari' or something.

If there's something idiotic about the Nu-40k lore, even though this 'retcon' has been there for a few years, is how the Necrons are now somehow in full-control of their selves, and how the Star Gods are now their slaves. It's jarringly out-of-character considering the Necrons are allegedly the only material being that's 'devoid of any kind of life'.

But that's just me. My lore knowledge of 40k is extremely limited to Dawn of War 2 games, a single novel about the Iron Warriors (that I luckily encountered in my local bookstores, probably the stars and the planets aligned at the time to make such thing possible) and the wikis.

Edit: Oh, and somehow the motherfucking Primarch of the motherfucking Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman, is back at the stage for some reason. Even though supposedly his throat was slit by Fulgrim using a Chaos-induced poisoned blade that will surely seal his demise, there are zero cure for it and to prevent his death he was put in a stasis, which completely halts the poison progression but in no way can heal him.
I'm not sure about others, but for me, another part of 40k's charm is how all these badass characters, either the loyalists or traitors Primarchs, are either missing, dead, or under desperate care to prevent their death but have no means of recovery because their damage is either administered by Chaos, or the means are lost with the whole Imperium stagnating. This means the Imperium are all alone against countless enemies from within, without, and beyond, and then suddenly they brought back the Primarch of the Ultrasmurf.

 

[Atomkilla]

I'm not sure about 'idiotics', but the one thing I kind of noticed is how they now referred to the Eldar as the 'Aeldari' or something. If there's something idiotic about the Nu-40k lore, even though this 'retcon' has been there for a few years, is how the Necrons are now somehow in full-control of their selves, and how the Star Gods are now their slaves. It's jarringly out-of-character considering the Necrons are allegedly the only material being that's 'devoid of any kind of life'. But that's just me. My lore knowledge of 40k is extremely limited to Dawn of War 2 games, a single novel about the Iron Warriors (that I luckily encountered in my local bookstores, probably the stars and the planets aligned at the time to make such thing possible) and the wikis. Edit: Oh, and somehow the motherfucking Primarch of the motherfucking Ultramarines, Roboute Guilliman, is back at the stage for some reason. Even though supposedly his throat was slit by Fulgrim using a Chaos-induced poisoned blade that will surely seal his demise, there are zero cure for it and to prevent his death he was put in a stasis, which completely halts the poison progression but in no way can heal him. I'm not sure about others, but for me, another part of 40k's charm is how all these badass characters, either the loyalists or traitors Primarchs, are either missing, dead, or under desperate care to prevent their death but have no means of recovery because their damage is either administered by Chaos, or the means are lost with the whole Imperium stagnating. This means the Imperium are all alone against countless enemies from within, without, and beyond, and then suddenly they brought back the Primarch of the Ultrasmurf.

To be fair, most of these things are easily explained. "Aeldari" have been renamed for legal reasons. Apparently, copyrighting Eldar, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard etc. is a bit problematic because they are either common SF/fantasy terms or are close to those, hence confusion and legal issues may arise.
Aeldari, Drukhari, Astra Militarum etc. aren't. GW has strong legal grasp on that and they are keeping their products safer. Sounds a bit jarring for old time fans, but is understandable. Most of the people stil refer to them as Eldar so it's not an issue.

Necron lore has been vastly changed in one edition. It's true, that change was really radical and completely scrapped their concept. It's partially because GW wanted to make them a race with more character rather than just soulless killing machines (Tyranids have that covered) and to fit them into a wider narrative of War in Heavens, and make a reverse point or Chaos armies - those not enslaved by gods, but those who killed their own gods. Also, Necrons have later on been set up as great enemies of Chaos and Tyranids, so they are along with Aeldari and Tau kinda sorta potential reluctant allies of the Imperium. Jarring? Yes. Stupid? Well, up for personal interpretation. I myself don't mind and even like Pharaohs in Space and the fact that for the most part they are still, well, dead, tragic and mindless. I understand people who prefer Oldcrons as they are colloquially referred. I should mention that there are Necron dynasties which are pretty much old lore. The fact that dynasties greatly differ among themselves is a good point for me, gives the race more character and variety. And homebrew potential.

I greatly disliked Papa Smurf coming back at first. I thought it was awful for same reasons you mention. However, overtime I grew to appreciate it a bit more. Let me explain.
GW seems to be heading toward End Times more and more. The story has finally progressed toward an even more apocalyptic future - after all, this is the age of Imperium Nihilus. Imperium torn in half, Vigilus is at stake, Cadia had been destroyed and Abaddon is back on Vengeful Spirit, leading Black Legion once more. Daemon Primarchs are running the show. Tyranids are closing in on Segmentum Solar and they are more evolved than ever before. Necrons are waking up. Shit be bad.
Primarchs returning has been kinda sorta announced 10k years ago. They said they would come when the shit hits the fan, and that's about to happen.
RG has been the one to return for two reason.
Meta reason is that Ultramarines are rhe single most popular faction on the table.
However, setting wise he is the most logical choice.
He is the only Primarch whose whereabouts are actually known. He is there, in stasis. And getting him back recquired the assistence of Eldar god of death - an actual fucking god. No small feat. Plus, he is the most diplomatic and pragmatic Primarch - something Eldar needed. Some of the stuff were poorly handled (Primaris Marines) but RG makes sense. And he (and Ultras) are actually cool now. Gone are the days of Wardian Heresy...for the most part.

Plus, more Primarchs are coming. My bet is on Lion being the next.

WH40k universe is slowly coming to an end. It will take a fuckton of time for that to happen in real life, decades at least, but in-universe? The end is nigh. Expect more (Daemon) Primarchs and more insane shit going down.

 

[Black Angel]

To be fair, most of these things are easily explained. "Aeldari" have been renamed for legal reasons. Apparently, copyrighting Eldar, Dark Eldar, Imperial Guard etc. is a bit problematic because they are either common SF/fantasy terms or are close to those, hence confusion and legal issues may arise.
Aeldari, Drukhari, Astra Militarum etc. aren't. GW has strong legal grasp on that and they are keeping their products safer. Sounds a bit jarring for old time fans, but is understandable. Most of the people stil refer to them as Eldar so it's not an issue.

Ah, I see. Like I said, I didn't really find this idiotic, just that they're the one thing I immediately notice upon watching the cinematic videos of this game.

Necron lore has been vastly changed in one edition. It's true, that change was really radical and completely scrapped their concept. It's partially because GW wanted to make them a race with more character rather than just soulless killing machines (Tyranids have that covered) and to fit them into a wider narrative of War in Heavens, and make a reverse point or Chaos armies - those not enslaved by gods, but those who killed their own gods. Also, Necrons have later on been set up as great enemies of Chaos and Tyranids, so they are along with Aeldari and Tau kinda sorta potential reluctant allies of the Imperium. Jarring? Yes. Stupid? Well, up for personal interpretation. I myself don't mind and even like Pharaohs in Space and the fact that for the most part they are still, well, dead, tragic and mindless. I understand people who prefer Oldcrons as they are colloquially referred. I should mention that there are Necron dynasties which are pretty much old lore. The fact that dynasties greatly differ among themselves is a good point for me, gives the race more character and variety. And homebrew potential.

I get what you mean, but still... I think they can handle the 'dominating their own gods' better than this. The usual 'betray the master, take back our freedom' trope kind of ruined it for me.

Also, the Tyranids aren't exactly "just soulless killing machines". If anything, the Hive Mind can be interpreted as one big ass 'soul' spread across countless units of organisms, concentrated at 'nodes' like a Hive Tyrant that kept the rest of them under control.

I greatly disliked Papa Smurf coming back at first. I thought it was awful for same reasons you mention. However, overtime I grew to appreciate it a bit more. Let me explain.
GW seems to be heading toward End Times more and more. The story has finally progressed toward an even more apocalyptic future - after all, this is the age of Imperium Nihilus. Imperium torn in half, Vigilus is at stake, Cadia had been destroyed and Abaddon is back on Vengeful Spirit, leading Black Legion once more. Daemon Primarchs are running the show. Tyranids are closing in on Segmentum Solar and they are more evolved than ever before. Necrons are waking up. Shit be bad.
Primarchs returning has been kinda sorta announced 10k years ago. They said they would come when the shit hits the fan, and that's about to happen.
RG has been the one to return for two reason.
Meta reason is that Ultramarines are rhe single most popular faction on the table.
However, setting wise he is the most logical choice.
He is the only Primarch whose whereabouts are actually known. He is there, in stasis. And getting him back recquired the assistence of Eldar god of death - an actual fucking god. No small feat. Plus, he is the most diplomatic and pragmatic Primarch - something Eldar needed. Some of the stuff were poorly handled (Primaris Marines) but RG makes sense. And he (and Ultras) are actually cool now. Gone are the days of Wardian Heresy...for the most part.

Plus, more Primarchs are coming. My bet is on Lion being the next.

WH40k universe is slowly coming to an end. It will take a fuckton of time for that to happen in real life, decades at least, but in-universe? The end is nigh. Expect more (Daemon) Primarchs and more insane shit going down.

Yeah, I actually forgot about the whole 'The End is nigh' angle of the 40k universe. Now I'm actually hyped, even though I'm kind of confused at first why do they use the video game format to finally advance the timeline in such grand manner. Shouldn't they release a book or something? Or a new tabletop campaign for it.

 

[Chromevod]

On releasing books or a new tabletop campaign for these events... they have. GW has been progressing the plot for a little while now. The Fall of Cadia basically being the start of everything going to even more complete and utter shit for the Imperium. Think of this game as essentially taking place at the start of these new events, but not quite reaching the point that the actual events in the timeline have reached.

 

[Atomkilla]

Ah, I see. Like I said, I didn't really find this idiotic, just that they're the one thing I immediately notice upon watching the cinematic videos of this game.

It is very noticeable, but eh, we'll all get used to it.
Some of the new names are kinda ridicilous, but then again, this is GW, they have always been ridicilous with their naming conventions.

I get what you mean, but still... I think they can handle the 'dominating their own gods' better than this. The usual 'betray the master, take back our freedom' trope kind of ruined it for me.

I agree that it was kinda bland in the way it was done. But this is GW. They've never been very original about anything. At the heart of it, most of the conflicts and conceprs in 40k are either fairly simply or mashup of known tropes.
Black Library does a good job (most of the time) to give individual characters and events some depth, but in principle, it's all fairly simple. And often lackluster.

Also, the Tyranids aren't exactly "just soulless killing machines". If anything, the Hive Mind can be interpreted as one big ass 'soul' spread across countless units of organisms, concentrated at 'nodes' like a Hive Tyrant that kept the rest of them under control.

If we are getting technical, The Great Devourer is the very antithesis of soul. Soul is immaterial and linked to the warp, whereas Tyranids are a Shadow across the Warp. They are literally denying it.
But my original post was written in more colloquial terms. Tyranids are a mystery to us, but they are completely unlike us and that is obvious. And they are perfect killing bioengines.

Yeah, I actually forgot about the whole 'The End is nigh' angle of the 40k universe. Now I'm actually hyped, even though I'm kind of confused at first why do they use the video game format to finally advance the timeline in such grand manner. Shouldn't they release a book or something? Or a new tabletop campaign for it.

They did. Plot was advanced through Gathering Storm stories, Dark Imperium book and (most importantly) 8th edition Codex.
This game is just the first to be set in this advanced timeline.
And as @Chromevod points out, it doesn't cover the whole of new events (from what I've seen, have yet to play it).

 

[Chromevod]

Think of the story as a little... "what if" of if the Spire character from the first game showed up in the time period of Gathering Storm. I very much like Spire but he's also exclusive to these games. I'd like it if he got adapted into the actual story of the setting in some way, but he'd need some work to not just waltz in and start fixing anything.

Since apparently they already gave that honor to Rowboat Girlyman.

 

[cronicler]

My apologies Atomkilla;
I thought I had already posted a reply when you had originally asked me to explain it further but I guess something went spinward.


For me the game's creators' lack of knowledge on the original material (both GW and Devs) is the biggest issue.
In this specific case, the original Battlefleet: Gothic was, in it's most fundamental form; "Wooden Ships and Iron Men" IN SPAAAACE! with all the quirks, limitations and (to under 30) incomprehensible weirdness.
Yet from the gameplay and the lore, we can see that neither GW nor the Devs actually grok what these all mean. A battlefleet gothic / armada battle should be evoking the feeling of the following scens


with a bit of the following


and a lot of


The current creators (on both GW and Dev sides) have shown that they have no real grasp on the foundations that created this archetype (why pursers buy their comisson, what rolling a shot meant, prize money, admirality courts, why boarding was such a necessity for the RN, Why mortar-ships and other niche ships are not some forgotten super weapons, the cultural, economic and social factors that created these solutions... and so on and so forth) they instead try to cram concepts and patterns that seem reasonable from a modern viewpoint and tech but seriously NOT fit what's actually there.




The issues don't just stop at the tactical level. The modern and homogenized viewpoint also messes and completely homogenizes all racial identities.

The bloody pointy ears, no matter their flavour (Craftworld, Corsair or DE) will simply never stand and fight. They will raid, they will skirmish and because they abuse their propulsion, they will limit you to light cruisers and escorts on every battle you try to initiate unless you manage to pin them down somehow (threaten a maiden world, threaten a crucial warp conduit, bait them with a sack of spirit stones...). Or hell, the game could even create dynamic mini campaigns just to pursue the bastards and light a beacon to call down a capital ship strike force on top of them. All to suppress them in the small area for a few years or so.

Whereas the Ork Pirates, Human Renegades and Chaos Aligned Raiders would appear from the depths of the void to pounce upon your less defended third tier colonies and yet would happily fight you if you manage to get there in time while the Astartes Hunt Packs and Admech Explorator fleets of the Imperium would pursue their own objectives, hitting key locations and creating bonuses for you without being directly under your command.

Tyranid Hive Fleets and Necron Dynasty Fleets, Ork Waaghs, Actual Chaos Warbands, THE Black Crusade... not to mention many other minor one-off fleets should have all been fighting using different parameters demanding different responses and gameplay options, like luring the Nids onto the Waagh (or vice versa) Necron fleets appearing and disappearing in the pursuit of completely different agendas... Nids going after whatever is the fattest &/or Closest...

Yet we see none of this nuance in the game. Sure their ships might be moving different when you get down to the tac. level but on the strategic level... An Ork is the same as a Chaos Warband as is an Eldar whater as is the Black Crusade as is the Nids....



From the GW side, it's the bad quality and/or quantity writing that has become the norm that is the biggest issue for me. This isn't me just neckbearding it but me being extremely tired of GW (and to a minor degree Devs) phoning the story in.
Look, when the second biggest event in the game's history is less than one tenth fleshed out than the annals of a war about a single podunk arsenal/ecclesiarchy world... A storyline that was created to sell an overpriced "dlc" army (Imperial Armour / Siege of Vraks / Death Korps of Krieg) and is completely over under 20 pages... Yea, things might be a bit too rushed.
[/spoiler]Random example that isn't about WH40k: One can employ the best action writer to write you a novel in your universe but if he isn't aware that it's a fantastic version of India's caste system, deamon seas and Maori wording for warrior speak... Yea it won't be a novel that fits the universe will it? [/spoiler]

And I'm not even going to enter the GW's short sighted sales policies that push a new asspull of a brand new... sorry recently rediscovered... overpriced model or model family with each update for more sales while minimizing "overhead" by cutting unimportant things like... local hobby shops....

Edit: will update/follow up with a bit more in a day or so. Have to run atm. sorry

 

[BigGuyCIA]

Honestly, this is one of the cheaper hobby's I've seen, and getting into how GW prices things is a bit hazy because it begs the question as to whether other, cheaper game systems at the 28mm scale are not charging enough.

I can get behind feeling burned at the cost of models if you play Space Marines, though.