Brotherhood of Steel lore

[Lagwagon04]

Seemed to spark quite the reaction on social media by saying BoS shouldn't even been in Fallout 76. Apparently people take that stuff seriously!

Timeline wise, when did Maxon actually form the name of BoS, and when did they leave Lost Hills? Been looking online for more info, but even the vault wiki seems to be flooded with Bethesda's seditious material about the West Virginia make believe chapter.

 

[LovinglyGaslight]

The name of the BoS supposedly came up in November 2077, and they left the Military Base for Lost Hills at around the same time. In regards to "Leaving Lost Hills" I dont remember that happening but my memory is admittedly awful.
Though I do agree, I dont think the Brotherhood should canonically be that far out by that point.

 

[Devastatin' Dave]

The original BoS had a splinter group leave some time way before FO1 because of a little tizzy about collecting more technology or something along those lines, but what happened to that splinter group was that they all died to radiation in the Glow.

I'm all for a splinter groups of the BoS, we've had those for a while now, but the way this group is explained is lazy and hamfisted "This character that had a strong bond with Roger Maxson then just emulated his group and all the iconography, knight and paladin culture, and whatever else through satellites!" It seems Bethesda thinks that the BoS is one of those checkmarks for a Fallout title so I doubt we'll never see Fallout game that doesn't have them to some capacity.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

The original BoS had a splinter group leave some time way before FO1 because of a little tizzy about collecting more technology or something along those lines, but what happened to that splinter group was that they all died to radiation in the Glow.

I'm all for a splinter groups of the BoS, we've had those for a while now, but the way this group is explained is lazy and hamfisted "This character that had a strong bond with Roger Maxson then just emulated his group and all the iconography, knight and paladin culture, and whatever else through satellites!" It seems Bethesda thinks that the BoS is one of those checkmarks for a Fallout title so I doubt we'll never see Fallout game that doesn't have them to some capacity.

Or the Enclave, or Mutants. The only real constant should be Ghouls, since they seem to be a effect Nukes have in this verse.

Did Hiroshima and Nagasaki produce proto-ghouls in Fallout, then? That must had been a hoot for 1960s-80s+ Fallout Japan.

 

[Devastatin' Dave]

Or the Enclave, or Mutants. The only real constant should be Ghouls, since they seem to be a effect Nukes have in this verse.

Did Hiroshima and Nagasaki produce proto-ghouls in Fallout, then? That must had been a hoot for 1960s-80s+ Fallout Japan.

I've had a head canon for a while now that ghouls are one of those things that occurred during divergence. Doctors just assumed radiation burns and scarring, but some were a bit more keen on what had happened decades later. It would largely be kept secret, but Vault-tec would still like to experiment on ghouls and such so then they make Vault 12.

I also like the idea that the "ghoul gene" is x-linked recessive inherited, which explains the male domination of ghouls and why ghoulettes are relatively rare.

 

[zegh8578]

Ghouls are originally meant to come from Necropolis, from the particular conditions there. Obviously, ghouls are easyer to retcon all over the place as just "radiation zombies", despite it making no sense whatsoever. You radiate a human - they die. They don't become immune to radiation, that's the entire point of nuclear weaponry. If radiation made ghouls, then there'd be like 300 million ghouls roaming the US alone.

 

[Norzan]

Holy shit, that actually makes sense. Nuclear bombs would be pointless if people could survive and become basically immortal, which was what Ghouls are.

 

[Devastatin' Dave]

Ghouls are originally meant to come from Necropolis, from the particular conditions there. Obviously, ghouls are easyer to retcon all over the place as just "radiation zombies", despite it making no sense whatsoever. You radiate a human - they die. They don't become immune to radiation, that's the entire point of nuclear weaponry. If radiation made ghouls, then there'd be like 300 million ghouls roaming the US alone.

I'm sketchy on the detail of Vault 12 now, but I don't remember anything other than the vault let radiation in? Maybe there was more to Vault 12, I just can't recall.

I do think there should be more to making a ghoul then just getting irradiated turns you into a ghoul. Also, Lonesome Road throws nuclear weapons being dangerous out the window since apparently nukes can make marked men, and the only thing that keeps marked men alive is just some latent radiation.

 

[TheGM]

I'm sketchy on the detail of Vault 12 now, but I don't remember anything other than the vault let radiation in? Maybe there was more to Vault 12, I just can't recall.

I do think there should be more to making a ghoul then just getting irradiated turns you into a ghoul. Also, Lonesome Road throws nuclear weapons being dangerous out the window since apparently nukes can make marked men, and the only thing that keeps marked men alive is just some latent radiation.

Well Fallout runs on SUPER SCIENCE radiation where it mutates the shit out of stuff. You could possibly make the argument for OG Ghouls being a result of Air Borne HEV + All the radiation ever = Ghoul. after that though it gets sketchy.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

The excuse is that there's a lot of random variables to create a Ghoul, Moira could become one while others will just die of the rads. There was that weird chick in the Mojave who tried to ghoulify herself and just died; the threat of rad poisoning affected Vault 37, and the Mr. Rad guy still died to rads.

I think the meta behind it is that the radiation cooks all the cells, somehow, so their telemeres or w/e extend or mutate. Still makes no sense; though now Ghouls sort of just fill the same niche as Elves in a way as Mutants fill up the Orc slot.

 

[Devastatin' Dave]

Well Fallout runs on SUPER SCIENCE radiation where it mutates the shit out of stuff. You could possibly make the argument for OG Ghouls being a result of Air Borne HEV + All the radiation ever = Ghoul. after that though it gets sketchy.

Yeah, and Fallout 4 just makes being a ghoul make even less sense. There are drugs that you can find that turn your into a ghoul (Hancock's existence), you can stay a kid forever under certain conditions (kid in a fridge quest), and there were even pre-war procedures to turn yourself into a ghoul (Eddie Winter and Desmond Lockheart in Point Lookout as well). Ghoul lore is absolutely nuts now because you can't just have someone some rads from the Great War anymore. You got to make them unique in some way.

 

[Pwener]

I've never given any stock to the whole "airborne FEV" thing. For me ghouls are the product of latent genetic markers and Vault-Tec may have just filled the Bakersfield Vault with such people.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Yeah as far as retcons go I actually really don't mind the Ghoul one, though I do think they're far too normal looking and far too common in Fallout 4. The idea that in the Fallout verse when you get a dose of insta-kill level radiation there's a very remote chance, a mix of genetic traits and luck, that turns you into a radiation fueled walking corpse seems fine to me. As long as it's rare and random, that is.

 

[TheHouseAlwaysWins]

Ghouls are originally meant to come from Necropolis, from the particular conditions there. Obviously, ghouls are easyer to retcon all over the place as just "radiation zombies", despite it making no sense whatsoever. You radiate a human - they die. They don't become immune to radiation, that's the entire point of nuclear weaponry. If radiation made ghouls, then there'd be like 300 million ghouls roaming the US alone.

Ghouls are simply a device for when you want somebody with a pre-war/longtime perspective. Ghouls are made when the narrative calls for it.

In New Vegas we see lots of other ghouls from other places like raul and in 2 I doubt all of the ghouls in Gecko migrated hundreds of kilometers outside of Necropolis esp when the good ending is Necropolis becomes an important hub in Fallout 1.

 

[zegh8578]

I doubt all of the ghouls in Gecko migrated hundreds of miles from Necropolis esp when the good ending is Necropolis becomes an important hub in Fallout 1.

That´s exactly how I read it, tbh, the Gecko and Klamath ghouls have come all the way from Necropolis, signifying an "opening up" of the community there, and a relative acceptance of their kind across the west coast wastelands

 

[TheHouseAlwaysWins]

That´s exactly how I read it, tbh, the Gecko and Klamath ghouls have come all the way from Necropolis, signifying an "opening up" of the community there, and a relative acceptance of their kind across the west coast wastelands

Gecko is a ghoul only community and Broken Hills (the only other large ghoul community in Fallout 2) was a failed experiment at trying to get everyone to get along with each other. I see ghouls as well as other types of mutated humans like Marcus and Harold as people who are through their immortality able to have a long lasting perspective that normal humans can not in the setting,

 

[zegh8578]

Gecko is a ghoul only community and Broken Hills (the only other large ghoul community in Fallout 2) was a failed experiment at trying to get everyone to get along with each other. I see ghouls as well as other types of mutated humans like Marcus and Harold as people who are through their immortality able to have a long lasting perspective that normal humans can not in the setting,

Sure, the settings make sense in a narrative. I´m just saying, from a lore point of view, I always felt they were well covered. They´re a distance from Necropolis, sure, but not insurmountable. Their journey and spread from Necropolis is a feat in its own.
(One could even insist that east-coast ghouls are super-persistent individuals wandered all the way from Necropolis, but then we´re veering into Bethesda-apologism-territory, where it is better to just shut all analysis down, and just shoot zombies and orcs with lazors.)

 

[necrosis]

The original BoS had a splinter group leave some time way before FO1 because of a little tizzy about collecting more technology or something along those lines, but what happened to that splinter group was that they all died to radiation in the Glow.

I'm all for a splinter groups of the BoS, we've had those for a while now, but the way this group is explained is lazy and hamfisted "This character that had a strong bond with Roger Maxson then just emulated his group and all the iconography, knight and paladin culture, and whatever else through satellites!" It seems Bethesda thinks that the BoS is one of those checkmarks for a Fallout title so I doubt we'll never see Fallout game that doesn't have them to some capacity.

A good indication if the Fallout game will rule or not, is if the Brotherhood of Steel is a major faction or not.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Ghouls are simply a device for when you want somebody with a pre-war/longtime perspective. Ghouls are made when the narrative calls for it.

In New Vegas we see lots of other ghouls from other places like raul and in 2 I doubt all of the ghouls in Gecko migrated hundreds of kilometers outside of Necropolis esp when the good ending is Necropolis becomes an important hub in Fallout 1.

The only ghouls that can be spoken to in Fo2 that discuss their origin ALL say they're from Necropolis. Not a single other one mentions being from anywhere else to my memory. Further, in Fo1 you can ONLY find Ghouls in and surrounding Necropolis. New Vegas was just going along with the lore established by Bethesda in Fo3.

I think there are three viable explanations for ghouls in the original continuity with this in mind:

1) Ghouls are the result of radiation (maybe with a little aerosol FEV from WestTek thrown in for good measure) combined with an EXTREMELY rare genetic mutation. Vault-Tec gathered as many people as they can find with this genetic mutation into the Bakersfield Vault, but otherwise the number of people with this mutation is so rare that the odd ghoul that forms out in the Wastes was almost always killed or died to other causes (like most people out in the Wasteland).

2) Vault-Tec put something in the air of the Bakersfield vault that, when combined with radiation, resulted in Ghoulification.

3) Something about being underground and the level of radiation exposure you get from that leads to Ghoulification.

3 actually could've allowed for Ghouls in Fo3, considering the vast metro networks beneath the city and the fact that a lot of people would shelter there during a war.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

I am okay with the idea that there were more people in the former US turning into Ghouls than just in Necropolis.
I however still think that it should be really rare and that it is a process that should take years and not by the flash of a single radiation burst. (most people would die instead)

And that Ghouls loosing their mind and become animal like is also rare with most of those of who it happened to already being dead two hundred years after the war.

We need to have some new kind of human mutants that are the result of radiation, various other toxins, and perhaps wild FEV or some other virus.
And not more zombies.

Perhaps it would be cool to have mutant predatory animals that imitate humans like those bugs in Mimic.