Enclave in FO3
- Thread starter Public
- Start date
Some big spoilers here.
[spoiler:2ca45d7820]
Can anyone explain to me what the fuck actually happens when you convince Eden to destroy himself and the Enclave? It made absolutely no sense, all I could understand was that in a few lines of dialog I made some incredibly vague comment with a speech check, some insubstantial commentary without speech checks and then he agreed to kill himself.
What the hell happened? There was no cohesive reasoning, to me it was just "You should destroy yourself, you have no purpose" - "Blah, blah, blah" - "I see your point and shall destroy myself and the Enclave."
What the hell happened there?[/spoiler:2ca45d7820]
[spoiler:2ca45d7820]
Can anyone explain to me what the fuck actually happens when you convince Eden to destroy himself and the Enclave? It made absolutely no sense, all I could understand was that in a few lines of dialog I made some incredibly vague comment with a speech check, some insubstantial commentary without speech checks and then he agreed to kill himself.
What the hell happened? There was no cohesive reasoning, to me it was just "You should destroy yourself, you have no purpose" - "Blah, blah, blah" - "I see your point and shall destroy myself and the Enclave."
What the hell happened there?[/spoiler:2ca45d7820]
i actually read the spoilers before beating the game, setting myself up for the dissapointed.
Wow that's horrible.
[spoiler:afea0d31da]seeing as how you obliterated the enclave in fallout 2, and since this is what, 37 years after, how in the fuck does a non existent entity magically revive itself 3000 miles across the country? Word of mouth? Somebody Farted?[/spoiler:afea0d31da]
Wow that's horrible.
[spoiler:afea0d31da]seeing as how you obliterated the enclave in fallout 2, and since this is what, 37 years after, how in the fuck does a non existent entity magically revive itself 3000 miles across the country? Word of mouth? Somebody Farted?[/spoiler:afea0d31da]
Bal-Sagoth
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Pablosdog said:
Just because you destroyed the oil rig does not mean they did not have many other Navarro type bases scattered around the west coast. Honestly its not hard to imagine how easy it would be to right it off as some random off shoot of the original Enclave.
Navarro still existed.Pablosdog said:
Also, I don't see how this is a spoiler.
Bal-Sagoth said:
You wanna tell me they had a plan "B" and more bases, which they didn't mention anywhere?
Their main base was destroyed, with most of their supplies, army and vertibirds.
If so...is there an explenation for their appearance in the game? Bethesda's, not yours.
Bal-Sagoth
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Public said:
As was said above as well Navarro still existed, I am still exploring and what not and have not went heavy duty on learning the lore of F3.
I am still waiting on an explanation of how the entire Enclave was destroyed just because the oil rig went down when for sure there was still one known base operational (in all honesty probably more) but that is left for speculation.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
There's no reason to assume that such an organization didn't have some surviving remnants that could be regrouped. Given that they have access to better tech, notably vertibirds, the fact that they've moved east isn't that outlandish. Considering they were the remnants of the government, it makes perfect sense to be interested in establishing a presence in the former capital.
As to what happens with Eden, it's not badly written. You just have to stop and consider the character you're dealing with.
[spoiler:7669f821fd]Eden is obviously an idealistic type of AI, who genuinely believes in the government he's trying to reestablish. Your speech checks simply made a moral or logical, depending on what you chose, argument that he is essentially acting in a hypocritical way, by usurping control in order to reestablish democracy. You can then use this to convince him to destroy himself and the facility, in order to truly return autonomy to the people of the wastes.
His request that you add FEV to the water is again, a reflection of a misguided, but genuine, belief that his request is beneficial to people as a whole.[/spoiler:7669f821fd]
As to what happens with Eden, it's not badly written. You just have to stop and consider the character you're dealing with.
[spoiler:7669f821fd]Eden is obviously an idealistic type of AI, who genuinely believes in the government he's trying to reestablish. Your speech checks simply made a moral or logical, depending on what you chose, argument that he is essentially acting in a hypocritical way, by usurping control in order to reestablish democracy. You can then use this to convince him to destroy himself and the facility, in order to truly return autonomy to the people of the wastes.
His request that you add FEV to the water is again, a reflection of a misguided, but genuine, belief that his request is beneficial to people as a whole.[/spoiler:7669f821fd]
No, no. There is NO excuse.
It made no sense, there wasn't even deliberation, it wasn't some long elaborate spiel as in with the Master, it was practically ten fucking lines of dialog that were so incredibly vague that it made absolutely no sense.
I don't give a shit about what the hell kind of AI Eden is, if they can't convey exactly WHY he agrees to destroy himself, much less actually convey HOW your character manages to convince him, then you feel like a third party.
I honestly felt like my character was saying some random shit without my input that made little to no sense, I only chose what I did because I got two dialog choices, neither of which fit in their given context.
I'm not a person to gloss over details such as these, this segment honestly made no logical headway at all, it was around five short sentences with no depth to them.
It was BAD writing, I understood that Eden was some sort of idealogical AI bound by his preset objectives of reestablishing an ordered society in America, but all that back story will not save a single iota of horrible dialog.
This is a common thing in literature, if you cannot provide depth in a single conversation then you have failed horribly, people relate past details and context with references in a single sentence everyday, the conversation with Eden was surreal in that regard because it did no such thing, AI or not, and made no sense since it did not allude AT ALL to any erstwhile diatribe.
It made no sense, there wasn't even deliberation, it wasn't some long elaborate spiel as in with the Master, it was practically ten fucking lines of dialog that were so incredibly vague that it made absolutely no sense.
I don't give a shit about what the hell kind of AI Eden is, if they can't convey exactly WHY he agrees to destroy himself, much less actually convey HOW your character manages to convince him, then you feel like a third party.
I honestly felt like my character was saying some random shit without my input that made little to no sense, I only chose what I did because I got two dialog choices, neither of which fit in their given context.
I'm not a person to gloss over details such as these, this segment honestly made no logical headway at all, it was around five short sentences with no depth to them.
It was BAD writing, I understood that Eden was some sort of idealogical AI bound by his preset objectives of reestablishing an ordered society in America, but all that back story will not save a single iota of horrible dialog.
This is a common thing in literature, if you cannot provide depth in a single conversation then you have failed horribly, people relate past details and context with references in a single sentence everyday, the conversation with Eden was surreal in that regard because it did no such thing, AI or not, and made no sense since it did not allude AT ALL to any erstwhile diatribe.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I'll have to revisit it, personally I don't recall the dialog. I simply don't recall finding it to be that bad, though I won't write it off entirely. If I can find a save near that point maybe I'll go back and look at it.
Edit: Sadly the only save I have is right AFTER that point, the one before is in freakin little lamplight.
While I won't argue that they were definitely short (simply because there are no long lines of dialog in this game by the old standards) I didn't personally find them to be completely nonsensical, as I recall. But it's possible I was tired or in a hurry at the time.
Perhaps the lines themselves were subpar but I don't consider the scenario itself to be poorly conceived, maybe just poorly executed.
Edit: Sadly the only save I have is right AFTER that point, the one before is in freakin little lamplight.
While I won't argue that they were definitely short (simply because there are no long lines of dialog in this game by the old standards) I didn't personally find them to be completely nonsensical, as I recall. But it's possible I was tired or in a hurry at the time.
Perhaps the lines themselves were subpar but I don't consider the scenario itself to be poorly conceived, maybe just poorly executed.
It's not exactly poorly written in the sense that Bethesda's writers might not have a comprehensive vocabulary or ability to use that effectively, more like it is incomprehensible because for one bit of important dialog in the game there is a complete lack of context and someone forgot the rules regarding antecedents.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
They had 30 years to make an army, and Eden coordinating it. While I will admit they are lax on the details, again I will say I don't consider the scenario itself implausible, simply not fleshed out as well as it could be.
Edit: back to the dialog itself, I personally hope to see/contribute to a general dialog improvement mod in the future anyway and no doubt this exchange would be covered.
Edit: back to the dialog itself, I personally hope to see/contribute to a general dialog improvement mod in the future anyway and no doubt this exchange would be covered.
It's a spoiler to those who have yet to have beaten fallout 2(probably no one on this board) I'm pretty sure with the lack of any real organization or leadership, the enclave would pretty much die out.
But that's just me assuming, and if they did still exist, how hard would it be to find train, and raise an army and take much of the east coast within a span of 30 years unless they had prior engagements there.
But that's just me assuming, and if they did still exist, how hard would it be to find train, and raise an army and take much of the east coast within a span of 30 years unless they had prior engagements there.
TheFlyingBuddha
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Right but the whole point is Eden stepped in and took over the remnants. This isn't a case of "no leadership."
Hroesvelgr
First time out of the vault
TheFlyingBuddha said:
I think he even says something to that effect if you press him about it... apparently the Enclave had bases all over (and why wouldn't they have a base in D.C.? I mean... that makes sense to me). He was in charge of a base that existed to ease the occasion of a governmental collapse, and as he became self aware it was only natural that he use his influence to take the reigns when the other president was killed. After all, it was kind of his job.
Why do you people assume the Oil Rig and Navarro were Enclave's only bases?
There's no real reason to assume that.
Remember the tanker captain?
He stayed in Navarro. He was never on the rig apparently.
If the Oil Rig was the only other Enclave installation, why did Navarro's replacements had to come through the mainland rather than being conveniently shuttled to the base in Vertibirds?
I like the Enclave in Fallout 3. It's a bit different from what we've seen, yes, but the way it's expanded and portrayed is fitting. And I really love the officer uniform, cap and Autumn's coat. <3
Plus, there's no problem with the conversation with the president - ZAX units weren't designed for self-awareness and you simply fed him a spiked sandwich, figuratively speaking, which poisoned his logic and led to his utter destruction.
There's no real reason to assume that.
Remember the tanker captain?
He stayed in Navarro. He was never on the rig apparently.
If the Oil Rig was the only other Enclave installation, why did Navarro's replacements had to come through the mainland rather than being conveniently shuttled to the base in Vertibirds?
I like the Enclave in Fallout 3. It's a bit different from what we've seen, yes, but the way it's expanded and portrayed is fitting. And I really love the officer uniform, cap and Autumn's coat. <3
Plus, there's no problem with the conversation with the president - ZAX units weren't designed for self-awareness and you simply fed him a spiked sandwich, figuratively speaking, which poisoned his logic and led to his utter destruction.