Fallout 3 GotY: Gamasutra PC #1, Edge #27

Brother None

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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Gamasutra splices its award and spreads them over a whole month, so we might expect to see Fallout 3 again later, but it's already grabbed top PC honours (thanks TyloniusFunk).<blockquote>Bethesda's Fallout 3 not only outshone the studio's previous game, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, in just about every way, it accomplished the impressive task of satisfying most non-extremist-level fans of Black Isle's venerable Fallout series. Creating a vast world that is a convincing representation of a dismal, post-nuclear wasteland while also being consistently compelling is no mean feat, but here it is.

The sheer amount of content in Fallout 3 is extremely impressive, considering what a consistent level of quality it maintains -- and how much of it a player is likely to completely miss, based on the choices made, the NPCs killed, the routes traveled, and any number of other variables. The main storyline pales in comparison to the larger breadth of experiences to be had throughout, and the vast wasteland begs to be lived in.

To sweeten the deal for PC gamers, Bethesda has also released G.E.C.K., an end user editing tool that can author any type of single-player content featured in Fallout 3 -- which will surely extend the title's already-considerable shelf life.</blockquote>And worth a mention are the pretty big Edge awards, one of gaming's most prestigious, where Fallout 3 is <s>completely absent</s> #27 (thanks PlanHex). GotY honours go to LittleBigPlanet, with GTA IV and Fable II as runner-ups.
 
Bethesda's Fallout 3 not only outshone the studio's previous game, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
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Achievement unlocked! Gee, was that hard bethesda? Making a game better than oblivion?
For your next achievement- make a game that's worse than oblivion. This one actually requires some effort.
 
Re: Fallout 3: Gamasutra PC #1, Edge Nothing

Brother None said:
(...)satisfying most non-extremist-level fans of Black Isle's venerable Fallout series(...)
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Count me there! :) :clap: :clap:
 
Extremists? So if we wanted Fallout 3 to actually play like a Fallout game we're extremists?

Hell, why not just declare users of this site a terror cell, and ship us all to Guantanamo Bay where we can serve a life term with no trial.
 
Beelzebud said:
Extremists? So if we wanted Fallout 3 to actually play like a Fallout game we're extremists?

Hell, why not just declare users of this site a terror cell, and ship us all to Guantanamo Bay where we can serve a life term with no trial.
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Please don't give them any more ideas. We're already halfway to 1984sville.
 
Put all fans into the concentration camps, and put a label on each fan's face "a dinosaur".
 
Re: Fallout 3: Gamasutra PC #1, Edge Nothing

LittleBigPlanet is game of the year? lol. Just goes to show what the game industry has come to. Grownups need not apply. Which makes me wonder a bit why so many popular games have so much content explicitly meant for adults? Just a cheap stunt to get more 10 year olds to buy your product? Hmmm....

Anyway,

Creating a vast world that is a convincing representation of a dismal, post-nuclear wasteland while also being consistently compelling is no mean feat...

It is also a feat that Bethesda has never achieved, with any game. Including Fallout 3. Bethesda wouldn't know "compelling" even if they looked it up in the dictionary, which obviously nobody there has ever bothered to do. Always been that way, ever since Arena. Their games focus on world-simulation, and they do a pretty good job of that. The downside is that their games tend to be about as "compelling" as going to 7-Eleven to buy cigarettes. Would that qualify as a sidequest? What is the main quest then? To go to work, and get through the day without being fired? OK. Fun stuff. Isn't it? Yeah, they say, but you can't kill people in real life! So that's the compelling part, is it? Whatever.

Bethesda, if you're reading this here is some constructive criticism:

1) Give NPCs the player is interacting with a lot some personality. The voice acting in F03 is a lot better than in Oblivion, but it doesn't compensate dialog so tedious that people just click through it. My nerdy co-workers are more interesting to talk to than your main characters. Again, why am I playing this game? To have virtual conversation with people I'd find too dull to want to interact with in reality?

2) Do a better job with the combat(etc) system. Seriously. That and graphics are ALL YOU HAVE going for you. It has to be better than it is.

3) Do more with graphics. Your graphics are pretty good these days, but you didn't spend enough time on armor/clothing. Or weapons. And from what you did, only some of the models look good. For instance, you did a great job with raider armor... but the combat armor is garbage. It's hideous. And virtually every NPC in the mid game is wearing one of the dozen or so combat armor variants. That's just an example, but I could go on. And for God's sake, learn how to texture models without the damn neck seams! Is it really that hard!? Nothing blows the "immersion" (your favorite word!) worse than seeing what is an obvious flaw with a model's texture. I mean, come on... am I supposed to continue thinking that's a person when I can see where you spliced the head texture to the torso texture?

This is getting long so I won't go on (here) but in closing, you have to fix your difficulty settings. Not everyone is a 10 year old who likes everything to be easy.
 
And one more thing!

The main storyline pales in comparison to the larger breadth of experiences to be had throughout

That's very true! But that's been true in all Bethesda games. That's because, there really isn't a "main story line". The "main story" in Bethesda games is always just a pretext to get people to continue powering up their characters... you know, getting ready to tackle the "main story". And then once you get to the main story you find out it's just a collection of trivial go-fetches, just like all the side-quests only strung together. I doubt most people who played Oblivion could even summarize the main story, in any way other than: "You have to defeat the big bad guy, what's his name..."

and the vast wasteland begs to be lived in.

Well, that might be so if their was any REASON for the player to be living a virtual life in the wasteland, other than waiting for mobs to respawn so he can kill them again. But the map isn't really that big, and you can only explore it once for the first time. And the stuff you find exploring is pretty much the same stuff you find everywhere else, when you aren't exploring. There aren't many surprises! And you'll find all of those your first pass.

Don't get me wrong, I love open world designs. But that's not enough for me, or for any other old-school gamer, most likely. RPGs are supposed to be adventures. Rome Total War is more of an "adventure" experience than a Bethesda title, and that's a wargame/strategy game. Speaking of which, haven't play Total War in a while...

Somebody let me know when Bioware and Bethesda decide to pool their resources to make genuinely good games. Neither one of them seems to have the capability of doing it on their own.
 
^ A good post, but tbh most of this has been posted here by many different people, and it's not like anyone would care, Bethesda the least of all.
 
programmer.craig said:
LittleBigPlanet is game of the year? lol. Just goes to show what the game industry has come to.
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It goes to show that the game industry can appreciate how great LittleBigPlanet is, and aren't terrified of the stigma of a "kid's game" like some people. That's all.
 
Don't double post. We have an edit button for a reason.

Craig said:
3) Do more with graphics. Your graphics are pretty good these days, but you didn't spend enough time on armor/clothing. Or weapons. And from what you did, only some of the models look good. For instance, you did a great job with raider armor... but the combat armor is garbage. It's hideous. And virtually every NPC in the mid game is wearing one of the dozen or so combat armor variants. That's just an example, but I could go on. And for God's sake, learn how to texture models without the damn neck seams! Is it really that hard!? Nothing blows the "immersion" (your favorite word!) worse than seeing what is an obvious flaw with a model's texture. I mean, come on... am I supposed to continue thinking that's a person when I can see where you spliced the head texture to the torso texture?
Click to expand...
I thought characters were the worst part, though.

Oh, that, and the complete lack of new environments. Almost every environment looked the same: stale, rusted, old, boring. Fallout broke through this by giving each town more of a personality, and more importantly with the remnants of the old world (see The Glow, for instance).

Craig said:
That's very true! But that's been true in all Bethesda games. That's because, there really isn't a "main story line". The "main story" in Bethesda games is always just a pretext to get people to continue powering up their characters... you know, getting ready to tackle the "main story". And then once you get to the main story you find out it's just a collection of trivial go-fetches, just like all the side-quests only strung together. I doubt most people who played Oblivion could even summarize the main story, in any way other than: "You have to defeat the big bad guy, what's his name..."
Click to expand...
In Fallout 3, the main quest is supposed to be much more important than in their previous games, though.
Not only is it very linear, somewhat obtrusive and basically the given motive for everything your character does, the game also ends when you finish it.

terebikum said:
It goes to show that the game industry can appreciate how great LittleBigPlanet is, and aren't terrified of the stigma of a "kid's game" like some people. That's all.
Click to expand...
It also shows that there are very few good, deep adult games.
 
Bethesda's Fallout 3 not only outshone the studio's previous game, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, in just about every way
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Not a difficult task, should I say.

The main storyline pales in comparison to the larger breadth of experiences to be had throughout
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It’s the Achilles' heel of the game, especially in comparison to the originals.

Creating a vast world that is a convincing representation of a dismal, post-nuclear wasteland while also being consistently compelling is no mean feat, but here it is.
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Probably game’s strongest point but not an RPG’s top priority.

I have always consider the RPG experience like a demon sent by the Devs, to challenge your mind and steal your heart.
At least that’s what games like PS:T, Arcanum , VTM:Bloodlines and FO 1/2 had taught me.
Now here comes Bethesda and by using a Procrustean logic, takes out everything complex, deep and sentimental, replacing it in general with superficial, temporary values. It’s what they call “cool” and “funny”.

Sorry, but I never felt an inch of remorse while I was sending sentinel Lyons into the chamber, during the last act. You see, there had never exist an emotional bond with her, one that would had made me think about my actions.
 
Sorry, but I never felt an inch of remorse while I was sending sentinel Lyons into the chamber, during the last act. You see, there had never exist an emotional bond with her, one that would had made me think about my actions.
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*ding* *ding* *ding* *ding *ding*

Mountaingoat has hit on the problem with the MQ ending with absolute precision.

On the loading screen there is a little ticker telling you how many people you have killed. I think I had hit something like 250 people or so by the end of ther MQ, which puts my "good" character somewhat at the top of the league of World "serial killers"

Or to put it another way, I'd got rather used to killing NPCs in FO3 (even if it was just in self defense) So here is this NPC, Sarah Lyons, a member of the traitorous breakaway sect of the BoS, who I had only interacted with twice up to that point, and had'nt been exactly nice to my character, I had zero reason to care about the character of Sarah Lyons, much in ths same way I really did'nt care about Raider #67 or Super Mutant #12.

And after all, its only a small step to make that kill tally reach 251.

[spoiler:9ad779e6ea]I actually agonised far far more over killing that nutty robot who thought he was Button Gwinnett in the Stealing Independence quest than I did over kicking Lyons into the chamber. [/spoiler:9ad779e6ea]
 
Despite the fact I've really enjoyed Fallout 3, I'm tending to agree with some of the commentary.

First problem:
[spoiler:49a47196b7]You don't get to know Lyons well enough before you get to kill her. She's basically either a get out of jail free card or an attempt to make you feel heroic. Neither works particularly well, since I've been given no real reason to care.[/spoiler:49a47196b7]

Second problem:
[spoiler:49a47196b7]Dad dies too soon, and not in any way that made me feel anything beyond a mild annoyance. He's no Adam Ryan, and that scene doesn't tug the heartstrings.[/spoiler:49a47196b7]

Third problem:
[spoiler:49a47196b7]I don't, and never did care about the Brotherhood of Steel. They're xenophobic fucks in the first two, and despite the attempt to give the Outcasts the same sort of aura, you're still not really convinced by them (and the lack of any real interaction beyond a fetch quest makes them even less compelling). The problem here is that you're supposed to want to feel like you're saving the wasteland with them. You don't. I get the idea that being so far from home, the Brotherhood found themselves with a new job, but it wasn't deep or compelling enough.[/spoiler:49a47196b7]

I really enjoyed the game, but at no point was I particularly emotionally attached to anything beyond Fawkes, probably.
 
The main storyline pales in comparison to the larger breadth of experiences to be had throughout
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This is something I don't get. How can one find the main storyline to be mediocre or even less than mediocre and still give the game excellent scores? 'Cause this is something I've noticed more reviewers saying.
With any other kind of media, that would never be the case. Just imagine:

[a] The main story of this movie is cliché/bad/mediocre, but the actors do tell a couple of really funny anecdotes in the flick and the costumes are simply great. I'll give the movie a well-deserved 9/10.

The story that author X tells us in his new novel is so predictable it's not funny anymore. However, pages 15, 45, 76, 77 and 101 contain some of the best descriptions of ducks I have ever read. Also, the author's punctuation is flawless. That's why I can't possibly rate this book any lower than 95/100.

[c] Their new cd contains 28 songs, but except for tracks 5, 8 and 12, all of those songs sound so unimaginative and soulless, you'll have a hard time not falling asleep while listening to them. The band does know how to play guitars, though, and the drums in songs 3, 9 and 11 do in fact sound like real drums. In short: I'd be a fool to not give this album the highest score. It's already a classic! * * * * *

Sure, games like FO3 do offer lots of extra stuff next to the main story, but doesn't "main story" basically mean that you can finish the game if you only do the quests that main story asks you to do? It's the core of the game, the rest is added to enhance the overall experience, right?

I don't get the high scores if the main story is just meh.
 
Fluffers And Fillers

Fluffers And Fillers




BN said:
... And worth a mention are the pretty big Edge awards, one of gaming's most prestigious, ...
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If there ever was a struggle of style over substance, format over content, then the *prestigious* Edge magazine page layout wins as the advertising vehicle.

The Edge -- Awards -- are equipped with short bursts of text that are direct and to the point. *Professional.*
This is an -- Awards -- write up so the superlatives appear appropriate and perhaps largely free of 'puffery'. *Professional.*
The Edge editorial machinations have spread out the copy to NINE -- 9 -- web pages
( the*academic* Gamasutra write up made due with ONE -- 1 -- ).
*Professional.*
The advertising density may not have been much different between the two,
but in the Edge's case I suppose their puffery is definitely less literary and more of the literal graphic style.

Literal puffery as the wider spacing of the visual items across the web page.

In this white space expansive format the Edge's written copy qualifies by editorial decree more as text filler perhaps, then articulated communication.
The layout style's strong point is towards the inarticulate, visual, that subliminal nuance.
The esthetic claims the less is more 'text-ure' that may quietly invite to more and more content,
if one wishes to burn the bandwidth to achieve each inducement to linger.
Maybe they get paid by the page and by the click.

Gamasutra states, "see me ... read me".
Edge whispers,"touch me ... feel me ".

In my single read memory, both text documents seem unburdened by superfluous superlatives.
Yet ...
We know from the continuing coverage of FO3 how dense and sticky the oozing , drips of praise can drizzle as they sizzle.
The modern style of 'review' is intense praise, an extremists' push to participate in a peak experience.
Because sex sells,
here is an appropriate stroke to render the shameless fluffers of the review industry in their hole of glory.
Image: faceless hookers hand jobbing the wanna be porn stars into a hard on for every product that lifts it's skirt and shakes it's bare naked ass.

180px-Fingers_and_thumb_in_circle_downward_motion.jpg

No lie Joe, lub you long time!

Consider that when the hard sell mantra oils the reader up for pre coital - blue balled - anticipation with only the promise of expectations' relief,
well these scribblers qualify as ... FLUFFERS.

If looking for more - more - more one word qualifiers for text based web content,
I suggest we entertain the adding to our snarky quivers the use of ... FILLER ... and ... FLUFFERs.

The Gamasutra article appears a standard written document presented on the web medium.
Filler or fluffer?
The Edge is spread wide to lure the prurient peruser into it's exclusive prestigious prestidigitations.
Filler or fluffer?
Both appear to be filler at first glance with web community standards of inducement to stay and play.

It's when taken in as a whole that the Edge tears down the fourth wall between reader and the alleged text communication.
The Edge's puffery and the fluffery lurks on the Edge screen, witness the console warz sh-t fight in the comments.
Repeated through NINE --9 -- web pages!
In this nex gen / 2.0 era the only meaningful way to interact is --> violence, in visual renders and visceral prosaic because " '... happiness is a warm gun ... ' ".
Horse shoes, hand grenades and ... sh-t fights. Thank the editors of the Edge to be true to their stools.
There, in the comments, the hard core stimulation rains / reigns on.


At a primary level of presentation. each school's style allows reading what is offered and refraining from buying what is being sold.
For ... my read only once memory says,
(and your experience and bandwidth may vary),
as a pair, ... on the whole,
here we read quiet interludes of just plain opinion / news, nested in reasonable ... (lawyers please look away) ...

... news nested in reasonable, and prestigious, presentations of web-zines.




4too
 
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