Fallout Developers Profile - Jesse Heinig

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
It took a bit, but with thanks to Ausir we have another Fallout dev to add to our regular old Hall of Fame: Jesse Heinig, who the sharpest ones amongst us will remember as being mentioned by Chris Taylor as one of the three designers of SPECIAL (together with Tim Cain and Taylor himself). A programmer and a designer, he is also - go figure - a verbose individual.<blockquote>Pop Culture played a big role in Fallout, what pop culture influences you?

I really enjoy thoughtful science fiction. Badly-done SF is like pop culture junk food; it's entertaining but empty. Well-done SF is more akin to literature with scientific underpinnings. For this reason I really wanted my contributions to Fallout to make sense in the context of the world, so I leaned on science fiction pop culture that spoke about artificial intelligence, genetic engineering, and the (re)discovery of technology. Though Fallout 1 had far less pop culture references than its immediate successor, there were certainly influences there. Some were just meant to be tongue-in-cheek; there's a note in the Glow, for instance, that is presumably an exchange between Mulder and Scully regarding the alien corpse in one of the tanks there. Conversely, the idea of ZAX - a benevolent AI - is more in line with, say 2010 and the notion of intelligent computers as partners for humanity's explorations instead of as enemies or threats.
I like the Mad Max movies, Star Trek and Star Wars as much as the next sci-fi gaming guy, but I also think that sometimes the "pop" part of pop culture does a disservice to good SF. When fans complain about movie studios "ruining" a given graphic novel or book in a movie adaptation, oftentimes they're really griping about the fact that the studios have changed fundamental elements or conflicts in the story just to appease the mass audience. If you sell to the mass audience, you're selling to the lowest common denominator, and that doesn't have a very high threshold for science fiction, which often presumes some actual scientific understanding on the part of the reader/viewer.
(...)
What is your hope for future Fallout games? Would you like to be a part of a future Fo team?

I've played Fallout 3 and I enjoy it quite a bit. I think that Bethesda made a great game and they did an excellent job of paying homage to the Fallout continuity while bringing some fresh, new ideas to the table. I think that what I would like to see in a future Fallout is the same as addressing my only real issue with the game: All of the old familiar elements of the Fallout world migrated to the east coast, so we have the Enclave, the super mutants, the Brotherhood of Steel; I'd like to see more new groups, more power factions and societies that have sprung up in a big way. I get the feeling from Fo3 that there's a sort of "power vacuum" in the east and that these groups moved out there to fill that hole, but this is probably not the way things are going everywhere. I bet there are other big groups out and about making their mark on the wastelands, some of whom may have crossed swords with the existing power blocs, others who have never heard of 'em. (See Caesar's Legions in the design docs for Van Buren - a large, organized power group that runs the show in a particular area of territory.) I'm glad to see the BoS and the super mutants and the centaurs and whatnot, but I don't have to see all of the old groups to know that it's Fallout. I guess we don't have Followers of the Apocalypse in Fo3, though. Most of the new power groups in Fo3 are relatively local in the game, such as Rivet City (which is a thriving metropolis, but it does not try to project its power across the Capital Wasteland) or the Temple of the Union (which is an awesome idea but I get the sense that they're very "new" and not super influential). Anyway, for future Fallout games, I hope that Bethesda (and Interplay, on V13 - assuming it is in fact Fallout Online, 'cause I'm not in a position to confirm anything) continues to look at the franchise with a critical eye and say "How can we tell interesting stories in the same vein established previously for Fallout?" I'm really looking forward to the downloadable content. I really want to see the Pitt.
I'm sure that Bethesda has a ton of really talented and experienced people on their Fo design team already, but if they offered me a shot at working on Fallout again, I probably wouldn't say no!
(...)
In your opinion, what are the key ingredients that every RPG should have?

An RPG is a role-playing game, so you are playing a role - that is, you are making choices about the protagonist. In some RPGs the only choice you make is which stat to increase when you level up. A good RPG, I feel, gives you more meaty choices. To do that, you must do three things:
1. Establish a setting with versimilitude. It doesn't have to be a simulation of reality, but it needs to have enough internal consistency that the player buys into it. Then the player can feel "grounded."
2. Create groups or individuals about whom the player has a sense of investment. In Fo3, you are trying to find your father, and since the entire tutorial section has interactions with your dad, this establishes a tie and a sense of character investment. In Fo1 you are trying to save your entire vault, and later humanity. In Planescape: Torment, you are just trying to figure out who the hell you are. All of these games put you in situations where you make connections with people - or even with just your own protagonist - so you have a sense of investment in what's going on. Your choices matter because their outcomes affect the people that you, the player, have come to know and perhaps care about. Sure, they're ultimately just pictures on a computer screen, but if you even paused for a second and thought about whether it was all right to steal from Killian, or to swipe the water chip from the ghouls, or if you cheered when your character killed the Overseer, you just felt investment in the game.
3. Give the player choices that impact that setting and that investment. The "slideshow" at the end of Fo1 (and now at the end of many an RPG) gives you a sense of closure. It shows you that your actions mattered and that you actually made things happen. Similarly, when you have a choice between helping two good people (but you can only help one of them) or having to work with bad people to fulfill your goals (people who would normally be your enemy, but you can't kill 'em 'cause you need 'em), this creates a real conflict of interests that makes you think about what you're doing. Given enough time, or some cheat codes, you can overcome any fight or problem that a game can throw at you. The question in an RPG is less whether you can pursue an option, and more whether you should and why. In the Fo series, you sort of see this in the sense that you can choose to gain karma by doing heroic things without pay or compensation - "heroism is its own reward," so to speak. A more telling sort of choice would be if you have to decide something where you're not sure what outcome is really best and you make a choice based on your investment in the story and your hope for how things might turn out - like the bit with Harold in the Oasis in Fo3 (I won't spoil any more than that). </blockquote>
 
A more telling sort of choice would be if you have to decide something where you're not sure what outcome is really best and you make a choice based on your investment in the story and your hope for how things might turn out - like the bit with Harold in the Oasis in Fo3 (I won't spoil any more than that).

Funny example considering there are no significantly different consequences to what you do with Harold (except when you burn him). It's pretty much meaningless, and has no long-term consequences at all.

Good stuff in there, recommended reading. And the first Fallout dev to come out and say he likes Fallout 3. Try not to lynch him, guys.
 
We had some early bugs that were hilarious to watch. In one case, the animation sequencer for the rocket launcher called the same subroutine used to animate a critter. This subroutine would take as a parameter a value that was assumed to be an index into the critter table. Of course, the rocket launcher passes it an index that is assumed to be the object index for a rocket - but the animator subroutine takes that number, compares it to the critter table, and fetches the midget. So you'd fire the rocket launcher, a midget would leap out and run really fast to the target and then explode.

Funny, this bug comes up even today sometimes. It is very rar but possible to get.
 
Brother None said:
...
Good stuff in there, recommended reading. And the first Fallout dev to come out and say he likes Fallout 3. Try not to lynch him, guys.
I will try to resist. Which isnt easy.

But to be serious. Its a good read.

Any last word to the Fallout fan base?
Just like with inside jokes: "You do it for the few who get it, not the many who don't." For those who dislike the current Fallout material, I hope you can eventually go on to find parts that you do like; it's far better to find things that you will enjoy than to spend your energy being angry about stuff that you didn't. And, of course, if you really love Fallout and you don't like what's out there now . . . well, Bethsoft has promised to put the tools in your hands. Now everyone can show their vision of the post-apocalyptic future. If you're presented with a choice in Fallout to tear down something new or to rebuild from the ashes, which do you take? Make your vision of Fallout happen.

Interesting part though. I think only time can tell if the modding community can come up with something amazing. But when I look over to some mods for Oblivion then I think that great things can and will be done.
 
The modders will release some good content. To a certain extent they greasy have. Odd to see a former Fallout team member supporting Beth though.
 
TorontRayne said:
The modders will release some good content.

Sure they will. That was never the problem. Thing is; there's this sense that if you're a criticaster that somehow obliges you to make mods. That because NMA is critical and Bethesda offers a modkit, "NMA" is then obliged to mod the game otherwise the criticism becomes invalid.

I don't think it'll ever be an issue, but there's something definitely wrong with that approach to consumer-producer relations
 
Paul_cz said:
GO AND HIRE HIM, DAMMIT.

I have this feeling the comment from him and Tim Cain are not as criticize like Leonard, since they are not in a position or well-known enough. Perhaps they don't want to ruin their reputation and the chance of getting hire by other company in the future.

I need a drink. :o
 
TorontRayne said:
The modders will release some good content. To a certain extent they greasy have. Odd to see a former Fallout team member supporting Beth though.
Well he is (or was?) a professional developer so would anyone have expected anyting different?

He is pretty positive about the game, yes. But I mean such a interwiev like this is not really the right place or time to maul the work of some other company particularly if you have to consider that most of the people just do their work like any one else. You cant blame the whole team of Bethesda for eventual decisions by single characters to speak so. But to mention ar attack single developers/individuals is not considered a nice thing to do and pretty much a no-no in my eyes.

If any its the job of others to be criticaly and ask the right questions. And they did it. And Bethesdas heads answered them. So anyone can now form his own oppinion about what they [developers, PR people] said, promised, and not delivered (like Fallout 3 as very deep roleplaying game for example. But so was Oblivion a dark and deep RPG right?). The issue is that cause of hype or perfect PR (either way) people dont care about it or seem to forget this things. Does anyone remember the false scripts about Radiant AI they have shown about Oblivion and that nothing from it was present in the finished game? They really learned from their mistakes. This time on the E3 you have seen them showing almost ONLY violance, weapons and a world with much visuals (big view distance ...) and nothing else, so thats what people expected mostly about the game and thats what they got.

Its really schocking to see what amazing marketing department they have.
 
Hello!

I don't mean to imply that criticism of Fallout (or any media, really) is wrong. I simply mean that now people who have a particular idea in their head for what Fallout should be like now have the tools to really share that idea with other players, which is very cool, and I encourage people to make content that shows off their great ideas!
 
Hey Jesse, thanks for doing the interview. Did you remember I actually mailed you about this as well a year ago? ;) I've got some hella backlogs from some devs. Scott Everts promised us a dev profile roughly 4 years ago, and Gary Platner 2-3 years ago :P

As for modding, it was less directed at you as to general comments. I don't think anyone should feel obliged to do anything to feel justified to criticize a game. This is a consumer product we're talking about, everyone has every right to criticize it. Such notions are often lost in the torrents of angry fanboys unleashed on NMA - nothing like irrationality to cut into the jib.

zioburosky13 said:
I have this feeling the comment from him and Tim Cain are not as criticize like Leonard, since they are not in a position or well-known enough. Perhaps they don't want to ruin their reputation and the chance of getting hire by other company in the future.

Not to speak for Mr Heinig here, but I hate how you guys do this every single friggin' time.

Yes, there is a consideration to make "I should not piss people off unnecessarily" in the industry you work in. That means that if you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say anything. We've yet to hear from Chris Taylor (but maybe he's too busy to comment) and remember, he said that he would post positive comments but if he hates it nada. And that's the normal modus operandus, theres no reason to believe Jesse Heinig would do any differently.

Now I'd be curious to hear his reasoning - because again, I wouldn't argue Fallout 3 is a bad Fallout game, but I've yet to be pointed out how exactly it is related to Fallout at all, other than in blatant references (like taking over factions), it doesn't seem to take over a lot of what Tim Cain has deemed core design

(one reason I never liked the "there's too many opinions!" arguments, Jesse. That's certainly true for details, but I haven't seen anyone but the most blatant Bethesda apologist contest that the above article which simply quotes developers is a good representation of core design. I usually sum it up as "post-apocalyptic retro-50s pen and paper emulating cRPG")
 
Well, Bethesda had a tough job to do. So many expectations for the Fallout franchise, and they had to try to find ways to keep things that were Fallout-y while making a game that would appeal to the modern game player. I suspect that one of the reasons that they imported so many of the factions from the west coast was to include those "familiar faces" that Fallout players have learned to expect. Importing them all wholesale to the Capital Wasteland stretched my credulity a bit, but hey, we have the Brotherhood of Steel, so how can I complain too much?

I really do enjoy playing Fallout 3. It's not Fallout 1, which is not to say that it is BAD, simply that they are different games - obviously, separated as they are by over a decade. I think that in addition to having the factional trappings of 1, this iteration of the franchise does try to keep a sort of tongue-in-cheek humor in some elements, and it sure has the retro styling down. (You'll notice that all of the Vault decor includes computers, chairs, even air conditioners that are 3D renders of the very same objects from the original game, down to the surfacing and curves and buttons and whatnot.) It's maybe less in-depth with dialog and characterization, and the lack of an ending slideshow is sad (I always liked the "here's what happens after you came through and ruined everyone's lives" vignettes). I still have fun shooting super mutants in the head, though. :)

I don't think I'm going to be working for Obsidian or Interplay or Bethesda, so I'm not really in the biz of PR-rah-rah-ing for 'em. These days, I just say what I think.

Cheers!
 
The Vaults are something, yeah, I noted as much having seen Fallout 3 for NMA's preview: the Vault is basically a 1:1 reconstruction of Fallout 1/2.

I'd say they fall short outside of there, tho'. They avoid too much tongue-in-cheek which is good, but they do lack some of that deliciously dark ironic humour of Fallout 1. Y'know, the fact that FEV - meant to save the US - is now the biggest threat, and that to save the world you have to blow up the Cathedral with the bomb that originally destroyed the world. Or heck, even the original Junktown endings (any thoughts on those, really?)

Fallout 3 has some moments where you can tell that some got it - like KX-B8-11 radio signal, or the fact that if you think you resolves Tenpenny Tower to everyone's satisfaction...turns out you didn't. That quest has no good endings, which is fantastic, but it's also pretty much the only one that does that.

In the end - and I've said this before - I think Bethesda's attempt to recreate Fallout setting-wise (because mechanic-wise it isn't close and was never intended to be, it's a different genre, FPSRPG instead of p&p cRPG) falls short because Bethesda doesn't care about consistent settings - they don't care about verisimilitude. They skip building a logical world or plot (ask yourself simple questions: why does Dad kill himself when you're there to shoot the soldiers? Why does he even hate the Enclave? What do people in the Wasteland eat? How could it be conceivably possible that some places haven't been looted in 200 years? I mean RobCo facility is right next to Tenpenny but they never checked it out? Who do the slavers sell slaves to). And then they do what they care about - namely adding everything that's COOL, even if it doesn't make any sense. To quote Vince from the NMA review:

Instead of a consistent and logical world, we get "cool shit". What's cool shit, you ask? An excellent question. Cool shit is whatever stuff random Bethesda designers thought would be cool. To be honest, Fallout 2 was also sporadically guilty of this syndrome, but Fallout 3 takes it to a thoroughly different level.

A town in the crater of an unexploded bomb? - Cool!
A Peter Pan-esque settlement of invincible kids who expel people when they hit 16? - Awesome!
A Lovecraftian Cthulhu-dedicated "Dunwich horror" location - Pretty awesome!
A gang of blood-drinking vampire wannabies - Beyond awesome!
A howling radio DJ keeping the bored populace of the, uh, wasteland informed of your progress - wait, let me check my awesometer... my god, it's over 9000!!!

Overall, it would be easy to write a report worthy of an EU bureaucrat listing all the silly and stupid things Bethesda has shoehorned into Fallout 3. The biggest problem is not so much that it isn’t Fallout, but rather that the setting doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Bethesda had an opportunity to craft a cohesive “living & breathing” world, but instead chose to build an amusement park with a bit of everything ‘cool’ they could think of. To be fair, some things Bethesda did are brilliant and atmospheric, but they are isolated elements that never form a coherent and consistent world that makes even the most basic sense.


That's no way to make an RPG. Any RPG. Let alone Fallout.

PS: you should work for Obsidian, it's fun
PPS: or join Leonard and the bwoys over at Blizzard. Leonard is really happy there
PPPS: no really, you should set up an indie cRPG project with those two guys you mentioned. Awezors.
 
I agree that there's a lack of consistency to some elements; many, many people have already complained about the fact that the main quest pushes you into sacrificing yourself in a way that is really unnecessary if you have the appropriate followers along. So, yeah, I hear ya that there are things that make you scratch your head and wonder.

I recall that early early early in the design for Fallout 2, I had a discussion with some other devs about Arroyo. I insisted that if it's a tribal farming village with dark age technology (at best), then 95% of its infrastructure will be farming, and most of the people will be farmers and most of the land farmland. While this is technically probably true, the reality of the gameplay is . . . it's not fun to trudge through eight million screens of farmland filled with boring farmers who just float message "hello" and "hot day innit?" when you click them. If your character is doing Important Things and making Meaningful Choices then the story needs to home in on those elements. A gripping story doesn't focus on minutiae, but rather on the drama that creates the epic.

(This is not supposed to be an apologist diatribe for Bethsoft, by the way. I'm simply mentioning that there's a balance to be struck between believable elements, with hyperrealism that is boring on one end and disjointed inconsistency on the other.)

Anyway, if I can get the GECK to do what I want, then yeah, I may very well release a little mod.
 
Jesse Heinig said:
Well, Bethesda had a tough job to do. So many expectations for the Fallout franchise, and they had to try to find ways to keep things that were Fallout-y while making a game that would appeal to the modern game player. I suspect that one of the reasons that they imported so many of the factions from the west coast was to include those "familiar faces" that Fallout players have learned to expect. Importing them all wholesale to the Capital Wasteland stretched my credulity a bit, but hey, we have the Brotherhood of Steel, so how can I complain too much?
...

Cheers!
While I can agree with a lot I have to say though that a few changes were uneeded in my eyes. This might sound as nit-picking now, but its just meant alegorically. I am talking about the change for the vault door from Vault 101 (and all other Vaults in the DC area) for example. This in my eyes is somewhat representative for the whole "game" at some point and IMO was a uneeded change of visuals and known aspects of the game like the steempunkish opening mechanism of the door. And this contiunes trough the whole game not only in design but as well within the mechanics like SPECIAL stats and other parts (like the story even as well).

While I and many others (I am talking about a few very long time Fallout fans) never complained about Fallout 3s art. I personaly think Bethesda did a amazing job about the visuals and the art direction is definetly a very fallout like feeling. But this was never a core about the complaining anyway.

I am not trying though to draw you out of your shell though :P . I am just thinking that a lot of people get the impression eventually Turn based and ISO (or pseudo ISO) style gameplay would be antiquated or have to be changed to make a game more "modern" and accesable which I find a bit ... sad. Particularly when I consider the experience one can get with games like Jagged Alliance 2 that just "can not" be repeated or even provided by a real time gameplay. Its just not possible. [And also it can give a very deep meaning in gameplay what others though describe as "tedious" but is a party of chees more tedius only cause someone might get the impression that all he can do while its not his turn now is to sit around and wait till the enemy is finished? I never perceived either chess or TB mechanics as that simple]. And I do think that such games can definetly be adapted for a "mature" and modern market if done correctly with using the newest technology available for example. I many times hear the phrase "the casual gamer" is not willingly to take such mechanics. I dont think so. It depends on how to appeal to the people. Though what I think is that to make turn based games it needs a different understanding of design compared the mechanics of a game like Bethesdas Fallout 3. They said it by them self, that they do not make turn based ISO style games cause its "not what they do best" (without any offense taken, its just the plain truth).

Its just sad to see that the Turn Based design is not killed (as I think) cause its not "modern" anymore or no market present for it but cause its only sold as not modern anymore [if that makes any sense ...]. I mean I heard from several designers/programmers here in Germany now working for the one or other smaller company which managed to make a title with some success that they have seen later someone in charge over the project coming to them with a completely new idea in design for the next title. And while some of the programmers remarks though that all what this "new" design is doing now is just a simplfication of the former core design he gets as unprofessional answer it would in movies work that way as well where every next blockbuster gets watered-down compared to previous movies.

Anyway. Kudos to you for finding the time to discuss with people. I know a lot of developers (or former developers) dont find the time to interact with the communities anymore. Last time I seen a real unconventional interaction between community and developers was from Tripwire interactivem maybe known to the one or other for their first and so far only game the WW2 multiplayer game Red Orchestra.
 
Hi Jesse, many thanks for the great moments I had, playing Fallout.

many people have already complained about the fact that the main quest pushes you into sacrificing yourself in a way that is really unnecessary

and yet, with the Broken Steel DLC they are abandoning that sacrifice aspect, a key point in Fallout 3 as Emil had stated during a podcast session, the game is about survival and sacrifice he said, if my memory serves well.

I have the feeling playing Fo3, that there has never been a master plan for the game, there isn’t any designing backbone to support it, just bits and pieces scattered through the wastes.
It seems to me, when they were planning for it, they google-mapped the D.C. area, divided it into sections, made some developer groups and started adding content.
The “glue” that puts them together is missing, something that can’t be said for the previous titles. One could easily realize there was a consistency in their world while playing them.

Now don’t get me wrong, the game excels as an action/exploring adventure, and I find a lot of joy exploring the wasteland, but the question remains, is that what it takes to make a great Fallout game and a sequel ?

When I finished Fallout1 for the first time, I felt angry, angry for the fact that the vault Overseer had gotten me out of the Vault, exiled. But then I said to myself, hey it’s just a game don’t go that emotional, but the emotion persisted.

When I finished Fallout 3, I was left emotionless scratching my head, wondering what the heck was that.

Sorry for the long post,

Cheers!!
 
Back on the ol' original team, Scotty was always the busiest, most overworked guy there, so I don't blame him for being slow to respond to outside requests. :)
 
Jesse Heinig said:
I recall that early early early in the design for Fallout 2, I had a discussion with some other devs about Arroyo. I insisted that if it's a tribal farming village with dark age technology (at best), then 95% of its infrastructure will be farming, and most of the people will be farmers and most of the land farmland. While this is technically probably true, the reality of the gameplay is . . . it's not fun to trudge through eight million screens of farmland filled with boring farmers who just float message "hello" and "hot day innit?" when you click them. If your character is doing Important Things and making Meaningful Choices then the story needs to home in on those elements. A gripping story doesn't focus on minutiae, but rather on the drama that creates the epic.
I'd argue that the manner in which Fallout 1&2 were presented allowed for the game to only allow the player to enter important areas in settlements for the very reason stated and occasionally impressed that through dialogue (Boneyard comes to mind doing this well). It was easy to pick up that the areas that could be explored were something of an abstraction of a larger area and that the important daily tasks (like farming) mostly took place on the outskirts. That said, I do think that having a few templates of the correct surrounding area for settlements (like farmland with a couple farmers around Arroro) would have been a neat addition for extra verisimilitude.

Because Fallout 3 is a continuous world, this cannot be done as it by nature does not feel like a believable abstraction despite the intent of being an abstraction. I've suggested it before, have the Fallout 1&2 style traveling map in addition to the FPP exploration mode (thus facilitating a much larger actual world, a complaint they also had with Oblivion) which would just randomly create, place templates, or even have the wasteland preset with templates of the area being explored (similar to what I suggested above in addition to a greatly expanded Fallout 1&2's system [I hear that Arcanum did something like what I'm talking about, of course it wasn't continuous like Fallout 3]). At the very least they could have done something like the entry area of the Den (a field or two and a brahmin pen) on one side of every settlement and added in some slaves (or if they were clever, the ones you enslaved) to work them (they have a raking animation from Oblivion).

I think the problem is that it just feels like they didn't even think about it, let alone try to represent it abstractly.
 
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