Gaming as an art form?

[Jogre]

A discussion that I've seen a lot lately is over whether video games should count as an art form. I just wanted to know what you guys think about this.

My personal opinion is no, video games should not count as art.

This is partly because it discourages silliness from gaming. Like, remember how in Fallout 2 you could find yourself in to a shotgun marriage after lezzing it out with the farmers daughter?, or biting off a boxers ear?, Those things are the most fondly remembered parts of the game for me, and were implemented because the writers approached it from a perspective of how to make the game fun for the player. Had gaming being considered an art form been big back then, they probably wouldn't have had all those fun moments.

What do you guys think?

 

[Crni Vuk]

You're serious with this?

 

[Vergil]

I think it's just like any other medium. It can be art and it can just be fun entertainment that's not trying to be particularly provocative. Just like how theres a difference between mindless colouring or doodling and skillful painting, a simple sitcom like Seinfield and something with some depth to it like True Detective or whatever. Just like how theres Commando and Rambo theres plenty of good thought provoking movies out there. For me games are the same way. Theres mindless fun like Killing Floor 2 and then theres more intelligent and thought provoking stuff like Metal Gear Solid 2 or New Vegas even. Not that one is inherently better than the other but not everything from a certain type of medium has to be art just like it doesn't mean it can't be art either.

I think a big issue is simply that people will give anything that's trying to be provocative the title of "artistic" no matter how shallow it is and how much it doesn't really fit the medium. Just like how the standards for "artistic merit" are different between painting, movies, sculpture etc the same is with games. Games like Gone Home which is barely a video game and doesn't take advantage of the medium at all (it could just of easily been a movie for all the "gameplay" was involved) was praised merely for having the right viewpoint and claiming to be "artistic". The same with Bioshock, it's a pretty average first person shooter but because they throw some big words around and shallowly claim to tackle complicated issues like racism and what not (they don't) it get's praise merely for trying while in reality it's not doing that good of a job. I think people are too ready to give something the title of "art" because it eitherr lines up with their personal viewpoints or they think that merely trying to achieve something is the same as achieving it. The same is for any other medium for me. A show that doesn't take advantage of all the tools at the medium's disposal (acting, camera work, sound etc) shouldn't be praised merely for claiming to be tackling issues or being artistic either.

 

[Jogre]

You're serious with this?

What do you mean?

 

[Millim]

If we're serious with this, than yeah.

I consider art to be a very broad and abstract term. I consider anything created with some kind of emotion to invoke some kind of emotion to be art.

Some art is an amazing masterpiece with context and depth, while other art is just a mess of shit that fails in anything it tries to do.

So yeah, I'm sure Michael Bay would be happy to hear that I consider his films art, but it's very shit art.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

yes

 

[Jogre]

yes

why did you type that in the smallest font available?

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

why did you type that in the smallest font available?

it's a secret

 

[0wing]

Not every single video game is art. Bioshock Infinite certanly not.
Video games are complex. If one of them succeeded in visuals or sound but falls flat on it's face in gameplay and story or all these elements are thrown together without second thought, then it's not one.

It's the same reason you don't judge a music album or a book for it's cover.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Not every single video game is art. Bioshock Infinite certanly not.

I'll have you know that it is. I'm talking about the real Bioshock Infinite that never got released though. It was the one where Elizabeth had a nice rack because they weren't worried about pissing off the SJWs.

 

[lolpop109]

I mean games are art not gamming. Like playing a game isn't art but of course every game is art. Like it like a picture but it moves. Someone literally had to draw something/Make it. Like for example take gta 5 map. The city looks beautful so yeah just the city its self is really a peice of art because some literally had to draw and desgin that city there no way any one could question something like that isn't art even if its objective. But look at new york and take photos and say that art so desgin a virtual map is defintly art even though its subjective. I don't think its art in the literally sence but its defintly some sort of art. Like they say music is an art but I don't see it as art. But i dunno I defintly see it as something and some sort of art but everyone else defintation. However I really wish we could reclassfiy word now there much more meaning to them

 

[0wing]

I'll have you know that it is. I'm talking about the real Bioshock Infinite that never got released though. It was the one where Elizabeth had a nice rack because they weren't worried about pissing off the SJWs.

Psst. Hey, it might be news, but "the real" Bioshick Infinite was supposed to be shit anyway since Ken Levine was still in charge, which leads to a story based on themes he don't understand. Because that's how he rolls. Slapping an "open world" on top of it won't make much difference.
And if you or me wanted old Elizabeth model, I'd rather find it somewhere and load into blender 3D to wank off to like a statue of she-elf and stop wanting a nice rack.

 

[Jogre]

Psst. Hey, it might be news, but "the real" Bioshick Infinite was supposed to be shit anyway since Ken Levine was still in charge, which leads to a story based on themes he don't understand. Because that's how he rolls.

I think he was being sarcastic about the "real" bioshock: infinite.

 

[0wing]

I think he was being sarcastic about the "real" bioshock: infinite.

I just wanted to put a The Witcher 2 reference.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

I think he was being sarcastic about the "real" bioshock: infinite.

You think I was being sarcastic? Well you're right and I applaud you. What was the giveaway? Was it my username?*
*I still think that Elizabeth had a nice rack though.

 

[zegh8578]

Games are an art yes. I like to remind people that art CAN be lame, or bad, or silly, or shitty, without ceasing to be art. Games can be good art, for that matter.

GamING can not be an art, gamING is a hobby.

 

[Crni Vuk]

What do you mean?

Because ... it is a bit ridiculous in my opinion to even discuss it at this point, beacuse games have estabilshed them self already as an art form. Particularly when you're serious with your logic, I mean I don't mean this as offense ... but if I applied the same kind of logic to let us say books, then you could as well make the argument that writing and books are not a form of art, partly because it discourages silliness from gaming writing.

But there can be no doubt that even if books are a form of art, that it doesn't discourage writers to do very entertaining and silly stuff just for fun, take Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy or Terry Pratchets Discworld novells as example.

You CAN argue that not all games are art, and I would definetly agree with that. Skyrim or Fallout 4 are definetly not art, they are made purely for profit, they are entertainment products. But there are a lot of games out there, that which are artistic work, like games made by studends or modders that made content because they wanted to tell a story and they chose games as their form of expression.

Art has a lot do with that, expression and communication. So if SOME games are art, then it means that games CAN be an art form, just like video, photography, writing or painting. But just beacuse it is an art form, doesn't mean that EVERYTHING that is made here, is now art. It really has to be decided and discussed from case to case.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Skyrim or Fallout 4 are definetly not art

But it invokes such intelligent discussion between true RPG gamers

Spoiler

 

[CerberusGate]

I think games are a type of medium capable of being a non-traditional form of art.

Some great games like Planescape: Torment or (a better example to me) Silent Hill 2, have been regarded as works of art. One with the depth and writing of a novel while the other draped in symbolism like a painting but with the story of a motion picture. Yet both are video games rather than a book, painting or motion picture.

Those games however simply do not work outside any other medium aside from that of an interactive game with player input (though I am aware that Torment was adapted into a novel - two in fact; one being a transcript for all the dialogue in game and the other being fan-fiction). Stories like the ones I stated don't do well in the form of a book or motion picture due to immersion, atmosphere and input as great games are capable of absorbing the viewer into the experience and can have even more impact on said viewer due to the viewer's input which draws the reader in.

To me, games are a superior story-telling medium from books, films or radio simply due to the capability of the medium to draw the viewer into an experience that they can be a part of.

That said, I recognise that not all art has to be or can be brilliant or provocative. Some can simply be incoherent, be too mindless or be terrible objectively to the point where they should not be regarded as art (though there will always someone who can find terrible art to be brilliant so that explains how triple-A garbage ends up being regarded as art despite their poor quality). Generally though, I do think games can be regarded as art though not all examples of said art will be up to par with the brilliant examples.

 

[CaptJ]

I consider video games art because I consider art to be a functional term rather than a status. However, video game criticism and analysis are like square pegs going into a round hole. Without proper analysis and criticism, the medium just devolves into a post-modern wankfest. What games the industry considers to be pushing medium forward are either tests of what can quality as a video game (similarly as how the urinal in that art exhibit only serves to push what the definition of art) or more about message than form. I feel like those who are making games that prove video games are art putting the cart before the horse.