Shaodeus
Still Mildly Glowing
Personally I'd love to see something that's more tactical, like insurgency, sure it would throw the melee and unarmed skills out of the window, but it could make the game world intense and suspenseful
How would you have liked to have seen the Fallout 3d Shooting mechanics?
Still Mildly Glowing
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Something that actually makes the skills worth investing in and where those effects are cleary visible and feelable in the way weapons handle. None of the three Fallout FPS' have succeeded in that.
I would've rather had controls akin to Witcher 1, a target lock that accounts for the to-hit chances accordingly to the situation, weapon and skill and Deus Ex/Alpha Protocol style timed "focus-aim" that could've affected those chances, than straight up first person shooting. Clumsy as something like that might have felt to the mainstream audience, at least it would've felt more like playing an RPG.
I would've rather had controls akin to Witcher 1, a target lock that accounts for the to-hit chances accordingly to the situation, weapon and skill and Deus Ex/Alpha Protocol style timed "focus-aim" that could've affected those chances, than straight up first person shooting. Clumsy as something like that might have felt to the mainstream audience, at least it would've felt more like playing an RPG.
0wing
Все умрут, а я волномут
A realistic approach like STALKER or even better ARMA but tied to player character's stats. Yeah, Deus Ex focus aim is cool too. Handled even better in DE-mod called Project 2027 where main char can't even shoot normal without investing skillpoints in guns.
Mr Fish
Slippy sloppy, The
If you're gonna go real-time first person with shooting mechanics then the only way to make it play well is if you have a more realistic approach to it. A headshot should preferably kill an enemy regardless of the weapon used.
So the only way to balance it out with character skill for an RPG would be to heavily tie the combat mechanics to the skills 'and' SPECIAL and of course, the stats should be extremely difficult to increase and skills should be reworked so that they go up to 200 and for the ratio of skill point put in and skill point increase to be altered back to the original formula where after 100 the ratio is 2:1 and later on 3:1. While for tagged skills it would be different.
So the only way to balance it out with character skill for an RPG would be to heavily tie the combat mechanics to the skills 'and' SPECIAL and of course, the stats should be extremely difficult to increase and skills should be reworked so that they go up to 200 and for the ratio of skill point put in and skill point increase to be altered back to the original formula where after 100 the ratio is 2:1 and later on 3:1. While for tagged skills it would be different.
Lucas9
Still Mildly Glowing
The main issue with New Vegas is that most skill levels are so pointless you won't even notice them. Gothic did this right: I believe you only have two or three "skill levels" at most, but they make a big difference. By giving 10 stages of skill levels we can make skills differences far more rmeaningful.
Ideally this levels would be as "objective" as possible, that is, anything that isn't a Perk (like Shotgun Surgeon, else we will be going the Fallout 4 route): level 1 means you are completely useless at the skill. Some skills would need to to be merged, or new skills would be created specifically for certain already existing skills. A high Guns skill would allow you to maintain your weapons, while a level 1 skill means you don't even know how to take a magazine out of a gun, and effectively, don't know how to reload.
This is necessary because otherwise a level 1 skill basically has no drawbacks. I'm not okay with 3D Fallout's "low explosives skill means you can't throw a grenade far away, even if you can throw a baseball", but this seems reasonable to me. Not everyone knows how to take a magazine out of a gun, let alone do it gracefully and quick like we are used to in 3D Fallout games. Heck, higher skill levels would allow you to handle the more complex weapons more easily.
Skills would improve by going to trainers and paying them to teach you new abilities. Sadly, this is a 3D game and isometric is just the best system to create RPG games where the player's skill lies only in decision making and strategy. This is as best as I can think of to make the shooting mechanics more interesting, by making skills far more important than just "you aim better", which is pointless since aiming is fairly easy using a mouse.
Ideally this levels would be as "objective" as possible, that is, anything that isn't a Perk (like Shotgun Surgeon, else we will be going the Fallout 4 route): level 1 means you are completely useless at the skill. Some skills would need to to be merged, or new skills would be created specifically for certain already existing skills. A high Guns skill would allow you to maintain your weapons, while a level 1 skill means you don't even know how to take a magazine out of a gun, and effectively, don't know how to reload.
This is necessary because otherwise a level 1 skill basically has no drawbacks. I'm not okay with 3D Fallout's "low explosives skill means you can't throw a grenade far away, even if you can throw a baseball", but this seems reasonable to me. Not everyone knows how to take a magazine out of a gun, let alone do it gracefully and quick like we are used to in 3D Fallout games. Heck, higher skill levels would allow you to handle the more complex weapons more easily.
Skills would improve by going to trainers and paying them to teach you new abilities. Sadly, this is a 3D game and isometric is just the best system to create RPG games where the player's skill lies only in decision making and strategy. This is as best as I can think of to make the shooting mechanics more interesting, by making skills far more important than just "you aim better", which is pointless since aiming is fairly easy using a mouse.
Spacemunkey
Vault Senior Citizen
Damage dictated by distance and caliber, accuracy dictated by distance and special/perks. I know it's an RPG thing, but I never liked weapons magically doing more damage because you put points into a skill. Also no Vats in real time combat, I disabled them in FNV and was happier for it.
IndignantHedgehog
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Agree on the damage thing, but I actually like the approach that gives weapons a damage range (a pistol might do 2-4 damage a shot, or something like that), and having higher level skill would increase the minimum damage.
I actually sort of like vats, just for the ability to do things beyond my own ability as a shooter, but within my character's ability. I can quickly do a head-shot with a silenced pistol on 3 people in unison, taking them out without them having time to raise alarm, but I'd have a hard time doing something like that on my own.
Kohno
Water Chip? Been There, Done That
Speaking of VATS. It could've been neat if it had worked as a separate and complete way of doing combat (obviously with more polish and added mechanics and the whole nine yards).
Think about Wizardry 8 combat (imagine the partymembers as action points), VATS has the trappings for that in place already:
To be quite honest, I think I would've liked all the FPS Fallout games more (regardless of Bethies writing hiccups) if they were modeled after Wizardry 8.
Think about Wizardry 8 combat (imagine the partymembers as action points), VATS has the trappings for that in place already:
To be quite honest, I think I would've liked all the FPS Fallout games more (regardless of Bethies writing hiccups) if they were modeled after Wizardry 8.
Mr.Moe
It Wandered In From the Wastes
I quite like the FPS mechanic of Bethesda's Fallout except:
- bugs. You can't shoot or throw grenades through certain objects, e.g. a fence with more then bullet size holes blocks as effective as cinder blocks
- VATS, better than F3, but still it's an OH SHIT button when things get to hard. I prefer to go without it. Targeting might be nice with a controller, but as a mouse+keyboard player I cant target small or blocked body regions...
- criticals - are tied to VATS now, great...
Translating RPG rules to a FPS is always tricky, there's no perfect way to do this.
With VATS you can appeal both to people who prefer to use the character's stats for CtH or realtime combat based on the player's skill
- bugs. You can't shoot or throw grenades through certain objects, e.g. a fence with more then bullet size holes blocks as effective as cinder blocks
- VATS, better than F3, but still it's an OH SHIT button when things get to hard. I prefer to go without it. Targeting might be nice with a controller, but as a mouse+keyboard player I cant target small or blocked body regions...
- criticals - are tied to VATS now, great...
Translating RPG rules to a FPS is always tricky, there's no perfect way to do this.
With VATS you can appeal both to people who prefer to use the character's stats for CtH or realtime combat based on the player's skill
Erich van Loon
Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
The way Fallout 4 handles it. It's certainly more polished and refined than F:NV's or Fo3's gunplay. Maybe have some critical hits outside VATS, but VATS criticals should be manual.
Overall, I do like how Fo4 handled gunplay. please don't kill me
Overall, I do like how Fo4 handled gunplay. please don't kill me
Black Angel
Grand Inquisitor of the Ordo Hereticus
How can we kill you? You liked the gunplay, which was handled by id Software, which means you gave credit to them instead of Bethesda.
On a more serious note, it baffles me once when I had an argument with this guy who tried to 'give credits where it's due', when the shooting mechanics actually have to be credited to id Software, so, eeeh whatever.