Iso: Public opinion on a change to stims

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Dubby

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
Taken from my little *secret* notepad:

Code: 
	using a stimpak provides a "bleed-out" effect with a script that is attached to the chem's spell effect,
	  this bleedout causes damage over time (DOT) based on the endurance of the user and how damaged
	  the user was at the time of using the stim. this is applied for all actors, including the player. what this
	  would boil down to is using a stim to heal when over 50% health would have little bleedout afterwards,
	  but using it while severely injured or critically low on health would have a stronger bleedout effect. if
	  necessary, this may warrant increasing the impact of the medicine skill on the stimpak's healing
	  capacity. this shouldn't affect using stims to heal limbs or crippled limbs, as that is in a different UI.
	  no food item or other healing source can heal more than 50 health, but a stim can heal over 200 with
	  enough medicine skill. this bleedout effect should discourage frantic stim-overdosing, decrease the
	  value of a stimpak, and increase the value of the medicine skill. - 11/27/08

Opinions? Suggestions?
 
i don't like the idea of a stim losing effect over time, but rather would have it to heal over time, say you lost 100 out of 200 hp, your stimpack is set to heal 100hp, 65 is instant and the rest comes over time say 5 ever 2 seconds or so.
 
Dubby said:
Opinions? Suggestions?
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Make it work and add to f3c :) should be interesting...and after we test it we can say what we think if it works or not...

But 1 suggestion medicine skill shouldent increase so much healing points why? becouse all you need to do with stimpack is make a shot every junkie can do that...i would understand if its for example doctors bag and then skill is required...

Also could you do same thing with RadAway? and maybe remove Rad-X or decrease it effectivnes from 40 to 20?
 
as for the medicine issue, how bout having say 20 points in medicine equals to say 2 stimpacks.

for example at medicine 20 a stimpack heals 50hp, at 40 it means 100, so you wouldn't be forced to get high medicine but it would help cut down on stimpack dependency.
 
Hm well i would see it other way...

0 medicine = 30hp
20 medicine = 50hp
40 medicine = 70 hp
80 medicine = 110 hp
100 medicine = 130 hp

Food should heal max 15 points(with sanitizer 25 points)...but then RadAway should be more often in shops...
 
130hp seems..pathetically little, if u make a cheat char and max everything (good for testing max's) you have like 250hp
 
Necro- said:
130hp seems..pathetically little, if u make a cheat char and max everything (good for testing max's) you have like 250hp
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Oh please...

25x15=375 + educated perk hm gives how much 2-3 points per level? so you can max 6 skills to 100 with no problem you cant be master in everything...and im preaty sure soon level cap will be higher so...

From what i see you want 1 stimpack to heal 250 points with 100 medicine thats a bit overkill...
 
no, but with maxxed medicine you need like 3 stimpacks to fully heal, i see stimpacks as something that should be used when desperate ;p
 
Necro- said:
no, but with maxxed medicine you need like 3 stimpacks to fully heal, i see stimpacks as something that should be used when desperate ;p
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Well...
Necro- said:
130hp seems..pathetically little, if u make a cheat char and max everything (good for testing max's) you have like 250hp
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Well so you need 2x130hp=260hp :)

...im having now bigger problems with getting radaway...and right now i got 25 stimpacks and 1 radaway something is not right here...no body sells this crap...any way tommorow i cheak rivet city if they dont sell radaway there im dead :)

Any way goodnight...
 
nerf stims to 5 +( med skill) making med skill actually usefull

nerf sleep to heal only up to 50% of max health on v.hard, 75% on normal, 100% on easy

for limb healing you could add a new aid item

I find it rediculously easy to heal. Mostly cause you heal to the max by sleeping and beds are everywhere! I have like 150 stims by the end of the game. I throw away water, nuka and food.
Playing w/o reloads unless Im killed.


bleed-out stims idea - like super stims in fo2? how much of a bleedout? I dont like that its a hidden effect which might backfire at the wrong moment.
and plz dont apply it to the NPCs -they already have problems
with healing selves


gregor_y there is more than enough rad-away to scavenge everywhere, but if you cant find any - see a doc to get rid of rads
 
my take on it...

I have a slightly tweaked take on it. Firstly I believe that all skills/SPECIAL stats should have more prominent roles. In order to make medicine 'matter' more I believe a return to "First Aid Kits" and "Doctors Bags" are called for. In a similar way that STR used to affect which particular weapons you could use, why not mod Medicine as a prereq for FA Kits and DBs.

For instance, you need 40 skill in order to use FAs and 80 skill in order to use DBs. (the values are just for illustration). This could also rely on the Medicine governing SPECIAL stat (INT is it?).

THEN,

(1) implement the Stimpack bleeding effect globally, i.e. inclusive of limb damage, make FAs and DBs rare and/or expensive and allow 'permanent' non-bleeding healing properties.

OR

(2) implement the Stimpack bleeding effect only on healing and have FAs and DBs only affect limb healing (being the only items able to heal damaged limbs. FAs also bleed. DBs heal limbs 'permanently'.

Thus, Food/Water should the the primary source of healing, Stimpacks should give a big boost but be rare, with FAs and DBs being specialist Medicine items. Those without the prereqs to use the latter should only have Doctors as a recourse for limb healing.

EDIT: In terms of the level of bleedout, (not sure whether this is possible), have it bleed back to the point where the stim was first used. Alternatively, a fixed, slow loss of health. Logically, pain killers only last for so long then the pain starts to slowly return until it is right back to where you started, forcing you to take yet another painkiller. Maybe stims should also have an addictive effect.

EDIT2: Maybe a rethink of the entire drug/healing system is in order so that everything works holistically together. I mean, as the previous poster said, sleeping should be definately nerfed and that medical station (the thing you can buy for your house) has got to go! (or at the very least, changed in a big way)
 
Necro- said:
no, but with maxxed medicine you need like 3 stimpacks to fully heal, i see stimpacks as something that should be used when desperate ;p
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I agree stimpack should be as it is eventualy even stronger since its a last resort in critical situation maybe make it even less it to find and higher it prices in shops but it is good as it in healing and effect thus for make stimpack even more special food could heal over time.
 
its a hell lot of work to make stims rare -they are allover the wastes. easier to make them weaker

disabling limb-healing in the field is a bad idea cause with a broken leg you cant run fast and AFAIR cant fast travell
 
Del all stimps from world get some small odd hut somewher in the wastland put ther a lab some guy in lab cloths few guards with very big guns and even bigger armors then make lab guy to create stims from caps or caps + item :)

Would make it rare to find that hut with the money for even 1 stim :p
 
its a hell lot of work to make stims rare -they are allover the wastes. easier to make them weaker

disabling limb-healing in the field is a bad idea cause with a broken leg you cant run fast and AFAIR cant fast travell
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I don't think it is THAT much work, there is already a mod I know of that limited the numbers of stims AND ammo in a big way by manually editing containers. Then again, I am just guessing since I wouldn't really know :) Nevertheless, IMO some form of object editing from containers already existing in the world would have to be done regardless because there are currently far too many of everything anyway (except maybe .44 ammo, which seems to be the only balanced thing).

IMO, not being able to heal limbs in the field (if you do not have the SKILL to) is the point. If you want to build a character specializing in things other than medicine, you have to take the pain (err...pun) in other areas. It would make for a more 'nervous' experience when it comes to battles.

A quick solution to that problem would be to have say one type of item (say First Aid Kits) be able to work for everyone in the field BUT that their effect would either have a time lapse (bleeding) or work via a 'timer', like drugs do. Then you could have the more permanent solution (Doctors Bags) work for those with the necessary skill.
 
A quick solution to that problem would be to have say one type of item (say First Aid Kits) be able to work for everyone in the field BUT that their effect would either have a time lapse (bleeding) or work via a 'timer', like drugs do. Then you could have the more permanent solution (Doctors Bags) work for those with the necessary skill.
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Or make first aid kit to heal limbs but add only minimum ammout of hp to limb ( just to get u run somewher or teleport) eventualy make it dependable on medical skill so for 100 medicil first aid would cure 100% for 1 limb and doctors bag would cure 100% of all limbs +hp
 
Murchadh - yeah, having temporal steroids for removing 'crippled' effects is a good idea. eat some buffouts (or whatever) and fast travell to a doc if you cant heal yourself
 
Exactly, I hate how the game currently turns everyone into GOD! You should not be able to hack all terminals, lockpick all containers, heal yourself without a sweat AND be an excellent marksman to boot.
 
i actually like that idea.

add 3 new items, medikits, doctors bags and super stimpacks


medikits could heal say half of a cripple bar (before being crippled) doctors bags are the only ones able to heal a fully crippled limb and super stimpacks would heal max hp but with a bleedout.
 
Erny said:
gregor_y there is more than enough rad-away to scavenge everywhere, but if you cant find any - see a doc to get rid of rads
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OK so i might screawed something with my game but no idea how...copied all files to f3/data and using mod manager to start game...

And i dont got such option any more to remove rads even if i talk to doc...

About my freeplay style eventualy i will run out of radaways they dont spawn again and again in containers...

Also guys i think were bit speeding up Dubby is only one person atm...

About stims well maybe Dubby should only add this bleed-out effect for start and well see...

Also i like crippled leg effect running slow...same thing should be for arm...cripled arm = worse accuracy and cant use 2 handed weapons...
 
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