John Henry Eden's Presidency

[Blue]

I am slightly confused as to why the Enclave remnants would trouble themselves to go all the way to Capital Wasteland when there are possibly more Enclave remnants and interesting places between the Core Region and Capital Wasteland. How is also John Henry Eden's presidency legitimate, or is it just a scheme set up by Autumn who just took up the opportunity to use the Enclave as his personal army with the excuse of liberating the capital?

 

[naossano]

My bet on it is that Raven Rock was already the biggest Enclave HQ after the Oil Rig & Navarro.
Some Oil Rig survivors joined them, but the main force was already there from day one.

 

[Blue]

My bet on it is that Raven Rock was already the biggest Enclave HQ after the Oil Rig & Navarro.
Some Oil Rig survivors joined them, but the main force was already there from day one.

If that's the case then why would the Enclave let the Brotherhood of Steel just come in and take over the Pentagon that later allowed them to activate Liberty Prime and crush them? In Fallout 2 the Enclave wasn't such a pushover, they were more than willing to start fights, especially when they were threatened.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

In the recent past, the Enclave—the remains of the United States government—were evacuated to an oil rig off the coast of California. Little is known about what happened to these forces, although the country has a new commander-in-chief: President John Henry Eden. However, recent reports and chatter have pinpointed the resurgence of the Enclave, with their base centered on a secure underground facility known as Raven Rock. Initial contact was made there 35 years ago.
During this time, the new President Eden has been slowly rebuilding his resources, thanks in part to the technology already available at the Raven Rock military base. Vertibirds, weapons, and robots were easy to construct, but human followers were more difficult to find. The answer was to rely on Colonel Autumn, who controls the Enclave soldier forces, as well as creating a propaganda-spewing series of Eyebots sent to roam the Wasteland, spreading hope. Eden could spout his pro-government rhetoric, and promise a return of the pre-war America of legend: a land of white picket fences, baseball, apple pie, and good, old-fashioned American global supremacy.

His father was the high-ranking Enclave scientist on orders from the president to move all high-ranking officials to the only other secure Enclave location with a functioning ZAX super-computer, Raven Rock.

Basically, they relocated because Eden said so. Seems like classic bullshit Beth writing.

 

[Blue]

Basically, they relocated because Eden said so. Seems like classic bullshit Beth writing.

Yeah, because it also doesn't make any sense; no presidential elections were held. Nor John Henry Eden was in the staff as a legitimate successor. It feels more like a far yell to the Shi, rather than the Enclave. Perhaps, simply, the remnants were following Autumn, and not the president anymore, since the events from the Oil Rig.

I also don't see why the Enclave would create propaganda like it did in Fallout 3. What was the point? The Enclave, especially those under Autumn surely wouldn't take up on any wastelander due to their credo. The masses in the wasteland are also more or less adapted to the post-war environment nor the promises he makes have any direct value.

What does the America of legend mean to someone in the wasteland? When their main need is the one of food, shelter and safety. There are many more important basic needs to be met, before talking about supremacy (against who, anyway? The mutants? The Brotherhood? The Chinese remnants?)

If the strategy was to create a less equipped, but a force that relied on cheap cannon fodder then it would make sense to spread propaganda, take in some raw recruits and make them meat shield against whatever enemy may show up while providing a false promise that they are doing it for America.

What's hard at doing that? There are people all over the wastelands, the people in Vault 101 could also have been taken as cannon fodder (that is already a better idea than simply wasting human talent for FEV) that kind of strategy would further establish the power that the Enclave would seek.

Perhaps, however, if the Enclave was more intelligent then compared to the geniuses that populate the Capital Wasteland then it would make any sort of ending too unrealistic or evil as the Enclave would either be destroyed by less intriguing factions, or just plainly massacres everyone and takes over by forming a socialist state between the elite and the masses who rely on them.

That scenario would also make more sense with the Water Purifier. Why would you want to kill everything in the Wasteland when it already wasn't a good idea when it was attempted all the way to the other side of the coast will all sorts of resources available to the Enclave? Was that not in the equation when John Henry Eden developed consciousness?

Actually, Autumn had the right idea all along. It doesn't make any sense that his forces were to follow an unconstitutional president that was never in the staff over an officer under the ex-president that has more in his mind than some stupid decision making that was done in the Core Region.

It feels forced, and disappointing. So, you are probably right.

 

[naossano]

In the recent past, the Enclave—the remains of the United States government—were evacuated to an oil rig off the coast of California. Little is known about what happened to these forces, although the country has a new commander-in-chief: President John Henry Eden. However, recent reports and chatter have pinpointed the resurgence of the Enclave, with their base centered on a secure underground facility known as Raven Rock. Initial contact was made there 35 years ago.
During this time, the new President Eden has been slowly rebuilding his resources, thanks in part to the technology already available at the Raven Rock military base. Vertibirds, weapons, and robots were easy to construct, but human followers were more difficult to find. The answer was to rely on Colonel Autumn, who controls the Enclave soldier forces, as well as creating a propaganda-spewing series of Eyebots sent to roam the Wasteland, spreading hope. Eden could spout his pro-government rhetoric, and promise a return of the pre-war America of legend: a land of white picket fences, baseball, apple pie, and good, old-fashioned American global supremacy.

His father was the high-ranking Enclave scientist on orders from the president to move all high-ranking officials to the only other secure Enclave location with a functioning ZAX super-computer, Raven Rock.

Basically, they relocated because Eden said so. Seems like classic bullshit Beth writing.

Is all of this actually confirmed in games.
I would not take outside sources into account, especially if they make less sense than what you can deduce from ingame source.

 

[Wumbology]

Consider this: Eden is clearly not stable. He is a delusional liar. However, he controls Raven Rock, the most formidable redoubt of any kind on the whole American continent, after the Oil Rig. Oil Rig gets blown up. Autumn Senior and his followers are crushed and confused. Suddenly, Autumm Senior is contacted by an A.I over in Maryland, which the Enclave knew of, but never really paid attention to. Other priorities existed before establishing themselves in D.C. So Senior gets this call, and looks it up on PoseidoNet or whatever: yes, Raven Rock is the most solidly built contingency plan of the government. It had facilities to produce weapons, armor, and even vehicles- one condition:
The AI is rather unstable, and he claims to be the President. So a meeting in Navarro is convened and the resolution is: Augustus Autumn Senior will lead a detachment of men and women to Raven Rock, while the rest stay and judge the situation in California.
Augustus is a dedicated man, and he understands the potential. He goes, and tensely complies with Eden's plans, believing it to be the only chance they have. His son is less obedient, though, and understanding the AI is mad, he eventually schisms as seen in Fallout 3. He hand-picks officers and scientists who's dedications lie towards him, and not the President or genocidal visions. Thus, the Enclave in Fallout 3 are quick to turn against Eden when he stands to bungle Autumn Junior's pragmatic and even humanitarian plan. The role of the Lone Wanderer is still a mystery.

It's not too hard. Stop with the biased/misdirected deconstruction's of Fallout 3's plot. Bethesda's writing is not totally an incoherent wreck; at times it even shows nuance.

 

[Blue]

Consider this: Eden is clearly not stable. He is a delusional liar. However, he controls Raven Rock, the most formidable redoubt of any kind on the whole American continent, after the Oil Rig. Oil Rig gets blown up. Autumn Senior and his followers are crushed and confused. Suddenly, Autumm Senior is contacted by an A.I over in Maryland, which the Enclave knew of, but never really paid attention to. Other priorities existed before establishing themselves in D.C. So Senior gets this call, and looks it up on PoseidoNet or whatever: yes, Raven Rock is the most solidly built contingency plan of the government. It had facilities to produce weapons, armor, and even vehicles- one condition:
The AI is rather unstable, and he claims to be the President. So a meeting in Navarro is convened and the resolution is: Augustus Autumn Senior will lead a detachment of men and women to Raven Rock, while the rest stay and judge the situation in California.
Augustus is a dedicated man, and he understands the potential. He goes, and tensely complies with Eden's plans, believing it to be the only chance they have. His son is less obedient, though, and understanding the AI is mad, he eventually schisms as seen in Fallout 3. He hand-picks officers and scientists who's dedications lie towards him, and not the President or genocidal visions. Thus, the Enclave in Fallout 3 are quick to turn against Eden when he stands to bungle Autumn Junior's pragmatic and even humanitarian plan. The role of the Lone Wanderer is still a mystery.

It's not too hard. Stop with the biased/misdirected deconstruction's of Fallout 3's plot. Bethesda's writing is not totally an incoherent wreck; at times it even shows nuance.

So, I went over the Fallout Bible, and this seems more logical than what has been discussed so far. (Plus, it wasn't my intention to be irritating, I was just sharing my thoughts on the plot, rather than deconstructing it)

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Blue, you're making few mistakes.
Yes, Eden was just figurehead. Nothing more.
No, they were making propaganda, because Autumn had new vision for Enclave, where Enclave use locals as some sort of force, some second-class "citzens" or whatever.
As you actually see in the game, only Eden and his robots were against this (they wanted pure Enclave, known from Fallout 2).
That's why only Eden wanted to use FEV on Project Purity. To make "pure" world for "pure" people, while Autumn just wanted water to have power over wastelanders.

As for Wumbology:
Autumn and his people never visited Navarro. When Oil Rig was slowly blowing away, he and his people just went on vertibirds and went straight to easter part of USA?
Just look at:
~Brandice (former Navarro soldier), who doesnt know at all about Enclave in Washington.
~Remnants from FNV don't know about it too. Remember Moreno words to Arcade, when Navarro was getting conquered by NCR?

When we left Navarro, I remember looking up at Moreno. He said, "Kiss America goodbye, boys." When we left the Enclave behind, the love in him burned itself out. Now there's just a bitter old man left."

Erm?

Is all of this actually confirmed in games.
I would not take outside sources into account, especially if they make less sense than what you can deduce from ingame source.

You're questioning all of this? Man.

First part is: Game of the Year Edition p.41: The Enclave
Second part is: Fallout 3 Official Game Guide Game of the Year Edition p.66: Colonel Augustus Autumn

 

[Atomic Postman]

Eden's a legitimate President because that's what the script says. That and they wanted a cool AI president, wouldn't that be so coooool?

 

[naossano]

Is all of this actually confirmed in games.
I would not take outside sources into account, especially if they make less sense than what you can deduce from ingame source.

You're questioning all of this? Man.

First part is: Game of the Year Edition p.41: The Enclave
Second part is: Fallout 3 Official Game Guide Game of the Year Edition p.66: Colonel Augustus Autumn

So it isn't confirmed ingame. That's good news.

 

[Big No]

So it isn't confirmed ingame. That's good news.

Y'know, saying that would also mean that by extension you'd be saying to take the Vault Dweller's Memoirs with a grain of salt.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Is all of this actually confirmed in games.
I would not take outside sources into account, especially if they make less sense than what you can deduce from ingame source.

You're questioning all of this? Man.

First part is: Game of the Year Edition p.41: The Enclave
Second part is: Fallout 3 Official Game Guide Game of the Year Edition p.66: Colonel Augustus Autumn

So it isn't confirmed ingame. That's good news.

official resources released with the game have same level of canon as game itself.

 

[naossano]

It isn't expected from the player to read all exterior materials.
Those could help fill the blanks for the players that want to know more, but if an actual game contradict those, it remains a fair games, as the only things confirmed are within the game universe.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

It isn't expected from the player to read all exterior materials.

What? It's like saying "it isnt expected from the player to read dialogues".

Those could help fill the blanks for the players that want to know more, but if an actual game contradict those, it remains a fair games, as the only things confirmed are within the game universe.

But you know that game did not contradicts it?
All materials released with Fallout 3 are in same way canon as game itself. You cant just say "the game is more canon than guide because I say so" and it's really weird to do like this.

I would except denying Fallout Bible as the canon, because it wasn't Beth job, but resources released by Beth? Come on.

What's funnier, your vision isn't even suggested at all by in-game stuff.

 

[naossano]

I am not saying my vision should prevail on game content. I am just saying that the game doesn't confirm what you are saying. It confirm Bethesda intends, what they consider would fill the blanks, but those informations aren't in the game no matter the billion of books they would write on the side.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

But why on earth the game is more important than some book/words od dev in deciding what is canon?

 

[naossano]

Do you actually need to ask that question ? Are you playing the book ?

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

But what the activity of playing has to the canon stuff in specific universe?
If you have a book, and some game basing on it world and extending it universe... then book will be more canon than the game?