PC Gamer UK on NMA and AoD

[Brother None]

A bit under the "this is hardcore" section of the PC Gamer UK discusses both NMA's reaction to Fallout 3 and Iron Tower's Age of Decadence:<blockquote>Some disgruntled forum inhabitants at www.nma-fallout.com have been wallowing in their own misery since finding out details of Bethesda's plans for Fallout 3. They're moaning about not being able to kill children and whether drinking from toilet bowls should be a feature. The subtext seems to be that because Fallout 3 doesn't look like the first two games then it is somehow evil. Here's an example of the posts on the forums.
"If half of the previers had any Fallout experience, we would've seen the occasional negative preview. As it stands, there isn't one. Not one from anyone that was there to witness the demo." Speaking as someone with plenty of Fallout experience, I loved what I saw. No conspiracy: a great demo of a promising RPG.
Fortunately for anyone who's determined that RPGs must not progress into first-person 3D, there are still games like Age of Decadence (pictured). It's post-apoclauptic, it eschews magic and it's indie. It's a game predicated on social interactions, cause and effect and plenty of dialogue options; it's pretty low-tech, but has plenty of features, such as the action-point based combat, that old school roleplayers will probably find comfortingly familiar. Try www.irontowerstudio.com for more.</blockquote>The post referred to can be found here. Links to more info on Age of Decadence can be found here. It is unknown where "a great demo of a promising PRG" can be found.

Spotted on the RPGCodex forums.

 

[SuAside]

wow, another gem of game journalism...

wonderful how you can totally miss the point and bullshit people like that.

and i guess they totally missed our own preview?

 

[Brother None]

Our preview was probably not up at the magazine's deadline.

Also, a bit tentative, I'd like to see this bit confirmed by someone with a PC Gamer UK subscription

 

[Black]

Way to fight the evil NMA and Codex! Burn infidels!

 

[Neamos]

The subtext seems to be that because Fallout 3 doesn't look like the first two games then it is somehow evil.

Ugh, where are they pulling this from? Smells like ass.
"Lol some guy wrote a hueg list with 50 references just to prove bethesda is evil LOL what loosers!!!"
"Excellent point. They didn't [release any good screenshots], so either they can't or they're evil. I concur. [/sarcrasm]"

WTF?!

 

[urikireOCS]

Fanning the flames or putting out fires? You decide!

Perhaps NMA should have a PR wing to help edjumacate those with twisted and uninformed views of yon community....

I imagine playing this game will be just as much fun as reading such goofy lead up to its release...

 

[TheWesDude]

hrm... ok so this is just GREAT journalisim...

as a representative of NMA he quotes someone who has been a member for less than a year, is not an administrator, has very few posts, and takes just a portion of the thought rather than the whole thought he quoted putting it out of context imo.

its plainly clear that NMA is getting a bad rep for all these people who are just newly signed up and active members... lets delete all the posts from people who have been active for under 2 years to stop making it easy for journalists.

i mean christ, what this guy did was akin to the president of Sears to fire all upper management due to some stock boy's opinion in oklahoma or something.

 

[Jiggly McNerdington]

Eh, quite a bit of NMA seems unreasonably hostile/aggressive to me too, I actually made this account because when I'd read the news posts and lurk the comments for them I was getting foamy at the mouth. It seems like there's a bit less unsubstantiated Fallout 3/Bethesda hate now than when I signed up, but it could just be I'm reading threads less.

As a side note, RPG Codex is such a horrible looking place that the few times I've lurked there I just got sick of it and left, not even feeling the urge to make an account to bitch at them. Probably why I did for NMA is because A: I feel more passionate about Fallout than an overall blanket of RPGs (Though liking Gothic 3 what the hell codex), and B: NMA, even when I first signed up due to being FILLED WITH FIERY FALLOUT FURY, seemed less retarded than the codex.

And just for the hell of it, as an example of what I consider NMA silliness that drives me in to keyboard smashing rages I'll grab some bits from this thread.

"R.I.P. FALLOUT
1997-2007" -Feeltherads' signature. Overly dramatic pointless anti-Bethesda rambling. If a game was going to travel back in time and smash up Fallout 1 and 2 to destroy your current memories, wouldn't it be Brotherhood of Steel? I'd think even the most Bethesda-hating Fallout fan would have to admit Fallout 3 is most likely going to be better than BoS.

"True, fusion cells shouldn't just explode, but then again, I don't really care. Exploding cars are fun.

FO3 target audience is FUN!" -Black's signature. Is fun really a drawback to a game? You could use the argument of "It's not just a game, it's a FALLOUT GAME! There's a difference!" but as I still consider the Fallout games games that doesn't really work with me.

Well hell, there were only two in this thread. Guess I'll post some signature criticism that doesn't really bother me then.

"FO3 needs: Isometric view (3D will do)/SPECIAL/non-linear story/turn-based combat/versatile quests/dialog trees " -Suaside's signature. Not frothing at the mouth, not saying Bethesda is using a time machine to murder Fallout 1 and 2, just saying what he'd like for Fallout 3.

""Glory be to the Bobbleheads, and to the Holy Unkillable Children."

- Bethesda (2007)" -Feeltherads' signature. Poking fun at the kinda dorky bobbleheads and (Most likely) unkillable children. Perfectly reasonable.

Only two of those as well. Uh... MORAL OF THE STORY:

NMA, first I was like then I was like then I was like
Codex remains at a hybrid.

Edit: Woah, where'd Nuka go?

 

[Brother None]

NukeColaClassic sent me a PM requesting to be banned. So I did. I removed his posts since they were mostly off-topic.

A simple question, Jiggly: don't you think a lot of this hyperbolic behaviour of us here is simply the nature of the internet? Internet kind of fuels people's willingness to get passionate on subjects, so the question of "how extreme do people get when talking on a subject" is kind of a moot one. I'd even argue that NMA has less tendency to talk in extreme terms, hyperboles and falsehood about Fallout 3 than how some others talk about us.

More importantly, ask yourself this: how many NMA members, especially the older and more regularly ones, are completely unable to defend their views with their backs against the walls? In other words, how much of this typical "net extremism" has no rationale behind it *at all*? I'd argue very little, and I'd argue we have a lot of members that're more than willing to listen to and understand other points of views, albeit with limitations in space and patience.

Sure, I bet you can point out a few bad apples, but bad apples are what make the rest of the tree healthy. And despite this media hetze against us, I'd argue NMA is a very healthy tree. Especially by internet standards.

 

[verwandlung]

And you deleted my posts, why?

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

It's so amusing how oblivious NMA pretends to be as to why most of the gaming media, and most of the internet for that matter, view this site as a laughing stock of angry, illogical, fanatical gaming nerds.

The main site consists of a slight slant against Bethesda, but is fairly impartial for the most part. When you click on the comments button though...wow. My favorite is the gentlemen who claimed he hadn't slept for 42 hours after viewing the FO3 trailer. Add people wishing death upon the FO devs because they didn't make the game they wanted and it's just utterly laughable.

I sometimes wonder if Brother None reads the posts on this forum...


NMA - The best Fallout fansite on the net.

NMA Forums - ehhh, not so much.

EDIT: Looks like BN addressed a few of the points above.

 

[Brother None]

And you deleted my posts, why?

Because they were borderline trolling, too, so I decided to run through in one fell swoop.

We don't delete, tho'. They're in the Vats.

It's so amusing how oblivious NMA pretends to be as to why most of the gaming media, and most of the internet for that matter, view this site as a laughing stock of angry, illogical, fanatical gaming nerds.

Yes, it's incredible how oblivious we are to this considering none of the media targeted us like the before Bethesda bought the Fallout license, considering how many media members are in friendly contact with us, and considering how "most of the internet" is actually just a circle of "the usual suspect" Bethesda suckups whose opinion identifiably has no basis in reality.

Saying "lol it's so obvious!" doesn't magically make it so, y'know.

Add people wishing death upon the FO devs because they didn't make the game they wanted and it's just utterly laughable.

Death threats and most explicit illusions to "wishing death" on people isn't allowed. We don't heavily police our forums, but we do have limits. Y'know, it's common decency not to allow people to wish death on other people, it's just a step too far. Something we realise but, say, a GameSpy editor does not.

Let's see, on one hand we have a fairly neutral site with a free-spirited and abrasive forum, though still censored for things like death-threats and cross-site trolling.

One the other we have communities were people trolling NMA are congratulated for their courage, a large circle-jerk of bashing NMA is mindlessly followed and official press means being used to wish death on an entire community is applauded.

Yes, it's so obvious that we're the bad guys. How couldn't I see it! It's not like we just have a strong opinion on the game while other people irrationally hate our community just for existing. Impossible!

 

[MrBumble]

Yeah...We are an angry and mean bunch...But at least we know what the R in "RPG" stands for...

 

[Jiggly McNerdington]

A simple question, Jiggly: don't you think a lot of this hyperbolic behaviour of us here is simply the nature of the internet? Internet kind of fuels people's willingness to get passionate on subjects, so the question of "how extreme do people get when talking on a subject" is kind of a moot one. I'd even argue that NMA has less tendency to talk in extreme terms, hyperboles and falsehood about Fallout 3 than how some others talk about us.

Well absolutely. I'm not saying you're all berserk fanatics in reality who would as soon shank Todd as breathe, but compared to other gaming communities I post at and lurk you guys are a bit on the far side. Certainly not to say you're the only ones or a gaming anomaly though. As a quick example off the top of my head, the official Neverwinter Nights 2 boards. They don't have as much of a devotion to the game as NMA, but they've got those goddamn creepy threads where people fawn over the NPCs in the game. Oh, Generic Drunk Dwarf Fighter, carry me away!

More importantly, ask yourself this: how many NMA members, especially the older and more regularly ones, are completely unable to defend their views with their backs against the walls? In other words, how much of this typical "net extremism" has no rationale behind it *at all*? I'd argue very little, and I'd argue we have a lot of members that're more than willing to listen to and understand other points of views, albeit with limitations in space and patience.

I've actually asked for rationale a time or two, and some of it seems alien to me. Like I mentioned in the other post up there, the "It might be a good game but it isn't a good Fallout game" theory doesn't mesh with me. I can sort of see where they're getting it, it just doesn't click particularly well in my head. And again, I'm not saying all their views are bad. Like the "FO3 needs: Isometric view (3D will do)/SPECIAL/non-linear story/turn-based combat/versatile quests/dialog trees" signature. I'd agree all of that could make a fun game, but I also think a first person, semi-SPECIAL, probably linear (Though I'd argue FO1 and 2's stories are a bit linear), real time combat, unknown quest quality and unknown dialog quality Fallout could make a fun game too.

Sure, I bet you can point out a few bad apples, but bad apples are what make the rest of the tree healthy. And despite this media hetze against us, I'd argue NMA is a very healthy tree. Especially by internet standards.

Definitely on the activity front, and probably the rest of the forum is better, but since I only read news comments that's most likely where most of the things that irritate me will show up due to new FO3 interviews and news bits and things getting dander up.

 

[verwandlung]

I see, I guess I don't know what trolling is then. Better log off from forums and internet in general then.


take care

 

[TheWesDude]

Eh, quite a bit of NMA seems unreasonably hostile/aggressive to me too, I actually made this account because when I'd read the news posts and lurk the comments for them I was getting foamy at the mouth. It seems like there's a bit less unsubstantiated Fallout 3/Bethesda hate now than when I signed up, but it could just be I'm reading threads less.

oh no. i absolutely hate bethesda softworks with a passion. i mark them akin to lenny in grapes of wrath. he keeps wanting to pet the mouse and take care of it ( make games that would please the fans ) yet because he has no self control ( they make the games THEY want to make = RT FPS/Action-Adventure w/ RPG elements ) that he kills the mouse ( cant actually do a good high quality game continually missing the mark due to awezome gfx! ) and it has to be buried ( fan made mods change the game very drastically much closer to how it should have been at the start ).

of course i could be wrong, but i dont think i am at all.

As a side note, RPG Codex is such a horrible looking place that the few times I've lurked there I just got sick of it and left, not even feeling the urge to make an account to bitch at them.

eh, rpg codex isnt any worse than NMA really, their passions are just in what a true RPG is. i hold a firm opinion that like 99.9% of all games marketed as RPGs fail horribly due to failing what i call the grandma test. there should be ZERO difference between a 90 year old arthritic woman playing the game as some 19 year old FPS gamer. this is what i feel most fail horribly at.

imo, the RPG codes is just very passionate about RPGs in general. of course i cant stand to read much there either because a lot of it seems to be the old crew spouting off their opinions with the lemmings fawning over them, or else a good thread that degenerates into the same arguments in every thread that have nothing to do with the original topic.

"R.I.P. FALLOUT
1997-2007" -Feeltherads' signature. Overly dramatic pointless anti-Bethesda rambling. If a game was going to travel back in time and smash up Fallout 1 and 2 to destroy your current memories, wouldn't it be Brotherhood of Steel? I'd think even the most Bethesda-hating Fallout fan would have to admit Fallout 3 is most likely going to be better than BoS.

severely reminescent of richard garriots RIP Ultima t-shirts and party he had when he quit origin/EA-austin because he had lost control over what they worked on.

 

[Jiggly McNerdington]

NMA - The best Fallout fansite on the net.

Easily. It's why I check the front page pretty regularly even when the comments irritate me sometimes.

Yes, it's incredible how oblivious we are to this considering none of the media targeted us like the before Bethesda bought the Fallout license

Well this one is pretty easy to answer with a non-conspiracy theory reply. Gaming media probably didn't check NMA that often before Fallout 3 was announced and started getting noticed due to the trailer. Fallout 3 would get people interested in Fallout again, which would lead to NMA, which would probably explain the new attention. That it's negative attention mostly probably stems from seeing some bile filled posts and getting a gut reaction. Though almost all actual NMA news posts are pretty even handed.

i mark them akin to lenny in grapes of wrath. he keeps wanting to pet the mouse and take care of it ( make games that would please the fans ) yet because he has no self control ( they make the games THEY want to make = RT FPS/Action-Adventure w/ RPG elements ) that he kills the mouse ( cant actually do a good high quality game continually missing the mark due to awezome gfx! ) and it has to be buried ( fan made mods change the game very drastically much closer to how it should have been at the start ).

Hahaha!

And I'll skip quoting the next chunk just to cut down the size of this post a bit. In reply to your grandma test, I wouldn't really go along with it. Bloodlines is a pretty enjoyable RPG (Well, except the end. God damn lazy last third or quarter of the game) even though it's a real time FPS/third person melee mix. While technically RPGs should be more about your character's stats and your character's abilities so you aren't hampered by if you can circle strafe or not, that's not to say a scoop of RPG mixed with another game can't still be called an RPG. Bloodlines still has pretty good dialog, options that change on your character's stats/skills, branching endings and all that goodness. While it might not be as "Pure" of an RPG as Fallout, I still think it's firmly on the RPG shelf.

 

[Briosafreak]

They're moaning about not being able to kill children and whether drinking from toilet bowls should be a feature

That's just fans of a series discussing features of the new game. Seems normal to me.

We could be instead discussing morbidly other internet fora where we can read regarding NMA:

I heard Brother None's girlfriend uses a power fist to pleasure him every Saturday Night. So I guess they built one.

I guess you win the "most obsessive jackass with a false sense of entitlement" prize? Or is it the "admin of the most hated fansite ever" prize?

Both, I suppose.

I can only imagine what it's like put so much emotion and time into a creepy obsession with a videogame.

So, you've never felt anger towards a group of people for being narrow-minded, fanatical, vitriolic douchebags? You wouldn't look down on a group of people with zealotism that produces an ungodly amount of malice and hate daily? A community that produces such gem quotes as "I wish 9/11 had happened to Bethesda's offices!".

Fuck off.

But we need to focus on what's important instead. That's what Ross and many others sometimes seem to forget.

Yes, it's incredible how oblivious we are to this considering none of the media targeted us like the before Bethesda bought the Fallout license

It moved from being a Gamespy and SA thing to a generalized thing, that was sort of strange.

 

[EuphoricOneTriesAgain]

Yes, it's incredible how oblivious we are to this considering none of the media targeted us like the before Bethesda bought the Fallout license, considering how many media members are in friendly contact with us, and considering how "most of the internet" is actually just a circle of "the usual suspect" Bethesda suckups whose opinion identifiably has no basis in reality.

Saying "lol it's so obvious!" doesn't magically make it so, y'know.

None of the media targeted this site because Fallout, for all intensive purposes, was a dead entity killed by some of the most worthless scumbags in expensive suits the business world has ever seen. (mini Intersuck rant).

About 5 minutes after the license was sold, this site coined the "Oblivion with guns" term and folks like Roshambo (a pathetic human being to say the least) started relentlessly bashing Bethesda and all things Bethesda. This has continued to this very day.

Death threats and most explicit illusions to "wishing death" on people isn't allowed. We don't heavily police our forums, but we do have limits. Y'know, it's common decency not to allow people to wish death on other people, it's just a step too far. Something we realise but, say, a GameSpy editor does not.

A Gamespy editor espousing the same views does not erase the fact several members on here have posted the same sentiments. GameSpy sucks anyway.

Let's see, on one hand we have a fairly neutral site with a free-spirited and abrasive forum, though still censored for things like death-threats and cross-site trolling.

This site is far, far, far from neutral, unless you count the opinions of the Admins 10000% more than the members. Even then, the overall slant would be heavily "anti-FO3 and Bethesda."

You are neutral. I found your F03 preview exceedingly well done. Your criticisms of the game? 99% constructive. The general concensus of the criticisms of FO3 from the rest of the forums:

It's not Iso, it sucks.
The vault suit is baggy! It sucks.
It's made by the same people who made Oblivion! It sucks.
The Brotherhood are in the game. Bethesda has no right to construct any sort of the plot that would place the Brotherhood on the east coast. It sucks!
Etc., etc.,etc....

One the other we have communities were people trolling NMA are congratulated for their courage, a large circle-jerk of bashing NMA is mindlessly followed and official press means being used to wish death on an entire community is applauded.

All brought upon yourselves by the views above. Does that make it any better or justify it? No. Does it explain it? It certainly does for me.

Yes, it's so obvious that we're the bad guys. How couldn't I see it! It's not like we just have a strong opinion on the game while other people irrationally hate our community just for existing. Impossible!

Nobody hates this community just for existing. People hate this community for the reasons I listed above and many similar gripes I did not list. For every impartial, constructive article you post on the front page, there are 20 ridiculous comments in the thread attached to that article. It's all about perception.

I don't feel like proof-reading all of that, so I'll have to take a mulligan for any parts that don't make sense.

 

[Morbus]

And you deleted my posts, why?

What the hell?!

Anyway, I agree with Brother None. No Mutants Allowed is one of the best places to lurk around, and even to post. At least for me, of course. Few are the places where I read a whole thread from start to end, without getting bored, and even fewer are those where I get to refresh the page to see if anyone else posted something... NMA is one of those places, partially because of its staff, partially because of its members, and partially because of Fallout itself.

It's so amusing how oblivious NMA pretends to be as to why most of the gaming media, and most of the internet for that matter, view this site as a laughing stock of angry, illogical, fanatical gaming nerds.

Why, argumentum ad verecundiam...