Post Mordom of fallout 4

TransgenderVaultDeweller

TransgenderVaultDeweller

"Fallout 4 adds to the lore"
Hey, So i got into it with some fallout 4 fans or at least some edgy contrarians. I think i did my best but i wanted to pick up your guys thoughts on this burning in my mind. This will have one thing related to fallout 3. I'll do my best to paraphrase their statements from my memory.


1."How does the people in fallout 3 exist without agriculture or some sort of water treatments or like in fallout 1 a water caravan company it seems like no society advancements were made? Also how come people are eating and stilling getting nutrient from food in fallout 3 when it's 200 years old and should be spoiled. don't think any food could last that long. Or if it didn't how come it's ubiquitous to the point where its everywhere in a supermarket inhabited by raiders? How come the raiders and supermutants didn't drive out most settlements from before the brotherhood arrived. How doesn't the brotherhood collapse already. How doesn't it explain it in a way thats not contrived or a total retconn that is just dumb or not as good."

They're response likewise is that food can be protected from ever spoiling by someway and because that in real life different places can be shitholes and others not. They also argued that because vault tec manage to somehow collab with the enclave super mutants got sent all the way over to the east. They also said they didn't have the tech to have basic agriculture in place. I also argued that then why haven't they all died out yet. I can't remember their response to it. But they said the reason they're fucked up is because they're eating caloric defense food with no nturient. If that is the case wouldn't they be obese considering how easy it is to eat high caloric food and gain weight. That was the extent of it. They tried to argue they had agriculture in fallout 3 though lol.


Moving on to my second point was this and its the big meme.

2. "In fallout 4, How come random people were in the glow showing no sign of radiation sickness and were able to make settlements in a hostile environment that would kill you in mere seconds without proper tools. Why would you go there to die if you have a cause first and if that is the reason, How do you have the time or waste resources to make buildings knowing your going to die. Nothing on the wikia explains this from what i see but it does say something about a fog condenser in far harbor which might make sense in that aspect but i thought it would lead to nuking again of some sort due to the opposition. In fallout 4 base game i didn't see anything to explain this or remember. It's just bad writing without perspective and through my time playing the game i didn't see anything to explain it in my time of playing to substantiate it. You can feel free to correct me here. But i'm not seeing ANYTHING on the wikia explaining this on either the mother, the main church page or anything remotely like it. But feel free to link or provide exposition."

They explained pretty much that they wanted to die there and that was it, I summed it above but i'll just restate that it was all a plan to to get killed during a pilgrimage.


That is mostly it, I've also explained about retconns, lore inconsistencies like Kid in a fridge, The power armor, Jet issue, Cabot house, The nukes being televised, How water treatment in fallout 4 reduces the entire point of fallout 3 and argued that the bethesda writers weren't interested in having intriguing/consistent lore. Rather so just making a bunch of bullshit up to make it try and make sense for the gameplay purposes exclusively. Feel free to discuss this and explain if i'm right or wrong here.
 
TransgenderVaultDeweller said:
Hey, So i got into it with some fallout 4 fans or at least some edgy contrarians. I think i did my best but i wanted to pick up your guys thoughts on this burning in my mind. This will have one thing related to fallout 3. I'll do my best to paraphrase their statements from my memory.


1."How does the people in fallout 3 exist without agriculture or some sort of water treatments or like in fallout 1 a water caravan company it seems like no society advancements were made? Also how come people are eating and stilling getting nutrient from food in fallout 3 when it's 200 years old and should be spoiled. don't think any food could last that long. Or if it didn't how come it's ubiquitous to the point where its everywhere in a supermarket inhabited by raiders? How come the raiders and supermutants didn't drive out most settlements from before the brotherhood arrived. How doesn't the brotherhood collapse already. How doesn't it explain it in a way thats not contrived or a total retconn that is just dumb or not as good."

They're response likewise is that food can be protected from ever spoiling by someway and because that in real life different places can be shitholes and others not. They also argued that because vault tec manage to somehow collab with the enclave super mutants got sent all the way over to the east. They also said they didn't have the tech to have basic agriculture in place. I also argued that then why haven't they all died out yet. I can't remember their response to it. But they said the reason they're fucked up is because they're eating caloric defense food with no nturient. If that is the case wouldn't they be obese considering how easy it is to eat high caloric food and gain weight. That was the extent of it. They tried to argue they had agriculture in fallout 3 though lol.


Moving on to my second point was this and its the big meme.

2. "In fallout 4, How come random people were in the glow showing no sign of radiation sickness and were able to make settlements in a hostile environment that would kill you in mere seconds without proper tools. Why would you go there to die if you have a cause first and if that is the reason, How do you have the time or waste resources to make buildings knowing your going to die. Nothing on the wikia explains this from what i see but it does say something about a fog condenser in far harbor which might make sense in that aspect but i thought it would lead to nuking again of some sort due to the opposition. In fallout 4 base game i didn't see anything to explain this or remember. It's just bad writing without perspective and through my time playing the game i didn't see anything to explain it in my time of playing to substantiate it. You can feel free to correct me here. But i'm not seeing ANYTHING on the wikia explaining this on either the mother, the main church page or anything remotely like it. But feel free to link or provide exposition."

They explained pretty much that they wanted to die there and that was it, I summed it above but i'll just restate that it was all a plan to to get killed during a pilgrimage.


That is mostly it, I've also explained about retconns, lore inconsistencies like Kid in a fridge, The power armor, Jet issue, Cabot house, The nukes being televised, How water treatment in fallout 4 reduces the entire point of fallout 3 and argued that the bethesda writers weren't interested in having intriguing/consistent lore. Rather so just making a bunch of bullshit up to make it try and make sense for the gameplay purposes exclusively. Feel free to discuss this and explain if i'm right or wrong here.
Click to expand...

Lets break this down then :):
First off allow me to point out that in Fallout 1 and 2 the "pre-war" food was completely inedible for 2 reasons, 1 being that its old and turned to dust, and the 2nd because it was irradiated beyond any usefulness by the fallout. If anyone is dumb enough to consume said poisoned foods they would die a slow and painful death. Any attempt to retcon these foods into something viable for human consumption directly shows how little thought was put into the design of the "modern" Fallout franchise.

In reality there are MRE's and Canned foods that can indeed last a long time, however the chances of even those when being stored in optimal settings will spoils or corrode after 5-10 years. Which makes consuming them very much of a gamble or simply not worth while. People often forget that even if something is "stored" properly that it still subject to natural degradation, for example when mummified remains are exposed to fresh air or water they quickly decompose due to the fact the biological contents has simply decayed to the point that they can no longer maintain a coherent form.

Even if some how the Fallout pre-war foods were still edible they would not last long as they would eventually be consumed by those that survived. So after a couple of years those resources would have been exhausted even with a limited number of people using them (finite resource).

Without agriculture or some for a viable food source, the great war survivors would surely fail to survive.

Next up, the Brotherhood:
No, they should not be in DC what so ever from a realistic logistical position. Why? some may ask is for 2 big reasons. 1 being the untamed mid west being a massive and unforgiving obstacle even for people with pwoer armor, and 2 being that they would in no way have sufficient material or man power to establish themselves in a satisfactory manner without some kind of "dues ex machina" to assist with the travel. Those of us who understand the unforgiving and punishing nature the wasteland presented in the original Fallout games know this.

The Brotherhood due to its numbers and resources would be limited to actions in the west, unless they made Tactics canon, which they didn't.

Everything else is pretty much preaching to the choir, we all have identified the glaring issues and debated them to death.

I hope my input helps :)
 
Einhanderc7 said:
Lets break this down then :):
First off allow me to point out that in Fallout 1 and 2 the "pre-war" food was completely inedible for 2 reasons, 1 being that its old and turned to dust, and the 2nd because it was irradiated beyond any usefulness by the fallout. If anyone is dumb enough to consume said poisoned foods they would die a slow and painful death. Any attempt to retcon these foods into something viable for human consumption directly shows how little thought was put into the design of the "modern" Fallout franchise.

In reality there are MRE's and Canned foods that can indeed last a long time, however the chances of even those when being stored in optimal settings will spoils or corrode after 5-10 years. Which makes consuming them very much of a gamble or simply not worth while. People often forget that even if something is "stored" properly that it still subject to natural degradation, for example when mummified remains are exposed to fresh air or water they quickly decompose due to the fact the biological contents has simply decayed to the point that they can no longer maintain a coherent form.

Even if some how the Fallout pre-war foods were still edible they would not last long as they would eventually be consumed by those that survived. So after a couple of years those resources would have been exhausted even with a limited number of people using them (finite resource).

Without agriculture or some for a viable food source, the great war survivors would surely fail to survive.

Next up, the Brotherhood:
No, they should not be in DC what so ever from a realistic logistical position. Why? some may ask is for 2 big reasons. 1 being the untamed mid west being a massive and unforgiving obstacle even for people with pwoer armor, and 2 being that they would in no way have sufficient material or man power to establish themselves in a satisfactory manner without some kind of "dues ex machina" to assist with the travel. Those of us who understand the unforgiving and punishing nature the wasteland presented in the original Fallout games know this.

The Brotherhood due to its numbers and resources would be limited to actions in the west, unless they made Tactics canon, which they didn't.

Everything else is pretty much preaching to the choir, we all have identified the glaring issues and debated them to death.

I hope my input helps :)
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Thanks for your input. Yeah, I was curious for sources because i can't seem to find anything to support atom worshipers going to the glow to off themselves. From what i can tell. As for your food comment. The guy was intentionally being obtuse and aloof saying "Well in our world we can make food that can be completely good to eat 200+ years. Therefor it must be the same for fallout."

I hope that makes a little more sense. I was a bit baffled towards the end of it. I had to fight 4 people in that debate and was dodging left and right so you must know how much of a drain that had on my sanity. FOUR PEOPLE TRYING TO ARGUE SPOOKY ALIENS IN THE MOJAVE REEE!
 
I know the feel, when you have a chance look up the Bethesda apologist thread and read some of our stories, I have one in particular there this is fairly entertaining. http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/...t-youve-had-with-a-bethesda-apologist.205750/

Also there is nothing wrong with backing away when you are ganged up in these situations, most of the time I find that these debates will devolve into absurd name calling and profanity. But at the same time also be aware that their view may have merit, so I always try to internalize their perspective along with my own to find some common ground.

While a lot of people will automatically state that their perspective is right and perfect, remember that when engaging them to show them that they are both correct, however there is another way to view it as well. Once a middle ground has been discovered I find it is far much easier to be heard and debate logically vs. debating someone using "just because" logic.
 
Cool, Thanks for the thread and the read! Yeah, it got heated and several times i had to take off my headsets so i wouldn't trip on my words. I mean i have an ego and it shows but normally when its something i find to be personally wrong 100% and it depends on the person i talk to. I wouldn't get this upset if someone were to say they'd prefer a breed over another breed for a dog. It's arbitaury. But when you're giving bethesda so many excuses and you're just looking for you're one "HAHA GOTCHA!" moment, That annoys me immensely because like people who gish gallop they want you to trip up or not respond correctly so they can say they're completely in the right. It's sophistry at that point and it just annoys me. *Sigh*


Btw, You first paragraph. "First off allow me to point out that in Fallout 1 and 2 the "pre-war" food was completely inedible for 2 reasons, 1 being that its old and turned to dust, and the 2nd because it was irradiated beyond any usefulness by the fallout." Was this from the fallout bible i guess?
 
TransgenderVaultDeweller said:
Cool, Thanks for the thread and the read! Yeah, it got heated and several times i had to take off my headsets so i wouldn't trip on my words. I mean i have an ego and it shows but normally when its something i find to be personally wrong 100% and it depends on the person i talk to. I wouldn't get this upset if someone were to say they'd prefer a breed over another breed for a dog. It's arbitaury. But when you're giving bethesda so many excuses and you're just looking for you're one "HAHA GOTCHA!" moment, That annoys me immensely because like people who gish gallop they want you to trip up or not respond correctly so they can say they're completely in the right. It's sophistry at that point and it just annoys me. *Sigh*


Btw, You first paragraph. "First off allow me to point out that in Fallout 1 and 2 the "pre-war" food was completely inedible for 2 reasons, 1 being that its old and turned to dust, and the 2nd because it was irradiated beyond any usefulness by the fallout." Was this from the fallout bible i guess?
Click to expand...

No that's just basic logic and experience, that is also reinforced by the fact the original games would not allow you to consume the pre war foods when you encountered them. I think the only pre-war food the original fallout games let the player use is the "cookie" in the sierra army depot to give the player +1ap.
 
Einhanderc7 said:
No that's just basic logic and experience, that is also reinforced by the fact the original games would not allow you to consume the pre war foods when you encountered them. I think the only pre-war food the original fallout games let the player use is the "cookie" in the sierra army depot to give the player +1ap.
Click to expand...


The only thing i know is that they had noodles and shit as junk loot but i don't think you could eat them and even if you tried to you get no nutrients from it and it's pretty much beyond rancid. Even some of the best MRE's that we have had quite a few bit of degradation and after 200 years it's all ogre. Furthermore i believe you'd want to invest in agriculture anyways because canned food can't last forever and the amount of calories differs from one of the food in fallout 3 to the other. We can just assume that it would even deplete faster.
 
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