Sawn-off and pistol burst

J

Josan12

Vault Senior Citizen
Ok folks, here's 2 suggestions:

1) I'm a big fan of the old sawn-off and personally believe it should the trusty sidearm of any good post-apoc warrior (aka 'the road warrior' ;)) It also says in the description it has a spread shot and is a crowd-control weapon. As it is it's a about as good at crowd control as the ever useless 'police baton'.

So i've made a simple mod that basicly gives the sawn-off shotgun a spread shot by giving the same attack effect as the flamer. In order to balance it i halved the damage it does as the change makes it rather effective as a low-end crowd control weapon:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2tyzn1njxan

.FRM files go in the Fallout2\data\art folder and .PRO file goes in the Fallout2\data\proto folder.

2) Wild_Qwerty has long suggested the idea of giving pistols a 'triple-shot' fire mode (basicly a 3 shot burst). I'm not sure if this would make pistols overpowered or not so can i get some opinions on this idea?

The art is easy to make. It would look like this:




And i can easily make a new SFX for it.

So can i get some opinions on the balance of these ideas?

*link updated 1/4/10*
 
First off, let me say kudos to the sawn-off mod. Makes more sense this way :D

BUT..

I'm not really sure about the three-shot burst with pistols. I think that would make them too much like FoT pistols, IMHO. I'm all for adding new modes to weapons, but maybe not for every pistol.

Also, there aren't that many actual pistols in the game (excluding energy weapons). Offhand, I can think of:

10mm
Desert Eagle
Mauser
.223 Pistol
.44 Magnum
Needler

..and that's all the non-energy based pistols, IIRC. Maybe a triple-shot upgrade for the 10mm and the Mauser, but it wouldn't make sense for the others. One's a revolver, two of them are already powerful pistols, and the Needler wouldn't make alot of sense. It's a modified medical injector.
 
The 10mm and 14mm pistols are described as autoloading, so a burst would work for them. The Mauser is also an automatic, I'm not sure about the Desert Eagle. The others don't fire that quickly, and are powerful enough already.
 
The Mauser was modified into an automatic in real life:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_C96#Schnellfeuer

I could see a 10mm 3-round burst
14mm might be too much recoil
Same with Desert Eagle
.223, no way. The original rifle it was cut down from was not capable of burst fire anyway.
The other .44 is a revolver, so no.

But I can see a Mauser and a 10mm with some kind of automatic capability.

10mm burst would also be a way to make it useful later in the game as well, or at least not as useless!

Though its kind of weird, since we don't really know if the 10mm is an autoloader or not, given the graphic of a revolver mechanism, but it always was a weird pistol.
 
Well, i know little to nothing about real-life guns so this is all good info. But TBH my primary concern is unbalancing the game rather than technical gun stuff.

I mean - would it make the 10mm, 14mm or mauser too powerful to give them 3 shot burst capability? As we know burst weapons are devastating in FO - the only real drawback is that they chew through the ammo. And the pistols are balanced with single shot in mind - i think their damage per shot may not be intended for burst ....

I dunno - i'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff. Any more opinions?
 
Is it possible to reduce accuracy for pistol bursts, or increase the strength requirement?

At the very least, it would require an extra ap...or two.
 
the_guy222 said:
Is it possible to reduce accuracy for pistol bursts, or increase the strength requirement?

At the very least, it would require an extra ap...or two.
Click to expand...

Good point - if i'm not mistaken i think burst attacks all have a -20% THC penalty, and of course all burst attacks cost 1 AP more ....
 
The Mauser is the worst gun in the game (not counting the BB gun), so a small burst will not unbalance it at all. Using AP ammo, only the 10mm pistol/SMG and minigun do less damage per bullet, and the assault rifle and avenger minigun are about equal to it. The 10mm pistol is the second-worst gun, so it probably won't be a problem either.
 
what is this mauser everyone is talking about?

One thing I would like is the ability to fire both shells from the first shotgun you find. Although that seems like a lot of work for only one gun.
 
The Mauser is this pistol:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/9mm_Mauser

Actually, I think I modified Fallout 2 once to have a burst fire with the double-barreled shotgun. You might not even need a new graphic, since both barrels are firing at once instead of in sequence.

For the 10mm and the Mauser, though, you'd want to make it a modification that you get somewhere later in the game, in case you are worried about unbalancing (and you don't want to get shot by bursts from raiders carrying crappy 10mm pistols!)

(Maybe even the shotgun could be modified later in the game to make it burst capable.)
 
the_guy222 said:
Actually, I think I modified Fallout 2 once to have a burst fire with the double-barreled shotgun. You might not even need a new graphic, since both barrels are firing at once instead of in sequence.
Click to expand...

If you set the shotgun to burst (even if it only fires 2 shells) the engine will play the 'rifle burst' shot animation. I think this looks rather innapropriate for a standard shotgun, hence why i decided to
make use of the unassigned 'continuous' attack and rename the single shot animation appropriately. I think it looks alot more appropriate, and still gets the 'spread shot' effect.

the_guy222 said:
For the 10mm and the Mauser, though, you'd want to make it a modification that you get somewhere later in the game, in case you are worried about unbalancing (and you don't want to get shot by bursts from raiders carrying crappy 10mm pistols!)
Click to expand...

Yeah - as i said this is one of my chief concerns. BUT, the 10mm, 14mm and mauser would only be firing 3 shots in their 'burst' so should be considerably less effective. If any would like to test this (and the sawn-off) out for me and see if it's overpowered or not it would be much appreciated. Otherwise i'll test it on my next playthrough.
 
lol, did you used the animation for being killed by burst (the less violent one)? Because your animation looks just like it.

But it's good anyway. And I like the idea.
 
Despite what hollywood would have you believe, sawn off shotguns don't actually have much larger spreads than regular shotguns; however, the recoil tends to increase a large amount. Really, the only advantages sawn off shotguns have are being able to be hidden more easily than a full sized shotgun. So, making the sawn off shotgun a burst weapon doesn't make much sense. Neat idea though.
 
Recon Rover Rick said:
Despite what hollywood would have you believe, sawn off shotguns don't actually have much larger spreads than regular shotguns; however, the recoil tends to increase a large amount. Really, the only advantages sawn off shotguns have are being able to be hidden more easily than a full sized shotgun. So, making the sawn off shotgun a burst weapon doesn't make much sense. Neat idea though.
Click to expand...

That may be true but according to the game item description:

"Now the wide spread of this hand-cannon's short-barreled shots makes it perfect for short-range crowd control"

And according to wikipedia:

"Shortening the length of a shotgun barrel does not significantly affect the pattern or spread of the pellets until it is decreased under 50% of the original [6]. The pattern is primarily impacted by the type of cartridge fired and the choke, or constriction normally found at the muzzle of a shotgun barrel. Cutting off the end of the barrel will remove the choke, which generally only extends about two inches (about 5 cm) inward from the muzzle. This results in a cylinder bore, which causes the widest spread generally found in shotgun barrels. For an even wider pattern, special "spreader chokes" or "spreader loads" can be used, that are designed to spread the shot further."

So essentially: there's pretty much always a way to explain a way for something to be anything you want ..... :shock: (wow that was a mouthfull)
 
I dunno - i'm not that knowledgeable about this stuff.
Click to expand...

..I'm surprised that SuAside hasn't gotten his paws over this one, I've noticed he's.. into firearms. 8-)

Any more opinions?
Click to expand...

Don't know if it's an option, but why not make a new weapon. Something like a "triple barrel shotgun", and attach that animation to it. Just a wild thought... tho' - can't stress it enough. :drunk:

Watch how SuAside bushwhacks me, for saying "triple barrel shotgun". :look:
 
Not sure how realistic this is, but you could make a modified grenade launcher that fires three shells at once (i.e. clustered in a triangle to fill the barrel). I figure that would have a great spread, especially if the barrel is short, and a correspondingly horrible effective range.

A crazier idea is to make a rocket-shaped shell, filled with 1/4 or 1/2 inch ball bearings. Load one of those into a rocket launcher and it will pulverize anything it hits. Good range with the heavy shot and large explosive charge propelling it.
 
Don't know if it's an option, but why not make a new weapon. Something like a "triple barrel shotgun", and attach that animation to it.
Click to expand...

Okay... 'was way off. I thought you wanted to give the sawn-off a gun-like animation. 'Saw the Road Warrior mentioned, and my first thought was: "he's wielding it with one hand". -Got 5:20, in the morning, here, so my perception is.. really low. :tired:

Back to it... IMO, handguns with some kind of a "semi-burst" mode, sound interesting, to say the least.., but anything added to the game, that was not originally intended, might bring the impression.. of them being "overpowered". -Then again, how much Action Points would this use up, without the traits/perks? :scratch:

and of course all burst attacks cost 1 AP more ....
Click to expand...

Sounds, somewhat, acceptable. -Fast Shot trait might bring some overpowering elements.. as it can be taken, very, early on...
 
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