Sniper and Leader: guide, questions, discussion.

WVr

First time out of the vault
Intro.


Edit: It's absolutely safe and time-saving to SKIP any small-font parts of this post. Why they are here? I'll explain:

Most important warning: this thread contain some incorrect statements and invalid advices, if we speak about efficiency and about "best" configuration of the character. It's highly recommended to read further discussion, as my mistakes are corrected in following posts by better-informed person. I will not delete erratic data, though, as it would result in removing of some statements which are discussed in following threads, and this would result in ruining thread's logic between posts (bad thing).

Instead, i will put incorrect parts to be in small font, and will add short notes in red color, to briefly name/describe corresponding error.

End_of_edit.


This thread is for a discussion of one of most popular main character's role in SP FoT: leader+sharpshooter+aux_skill(s) balanced character. I will provide what i know of the subject. It would be a guide, if not only my feel that i know not enough to write good enough on this subject. Any corrections and/or answers and/or useful info on the subject - are welcome. I may or may not include more data to that guide in the future, if this discussion will be productive. Authors will be mentioned, ofc.


Warning: FAIR PLAY expected. Please do NOT discuss any "usable" glitches, bugs or exploits here!


Guide.

General note: i may be wrong in many places. If this guide will be proven valuable and correct by other people - this note may be changed to say so. For now, though, use it on your own risk, or don't use at all. Your choice.

Contents.
1. Gameplay style.
2. Description of main character's roles.
3. Creating and planning the character: stats, skills, perks.
4. Creating the character: explanations, qustions, discussion.
5. Playing the character.
6. Misc (IOW, various important things).
7. Credits and such.


1. Suggested gameplay style.

This guide is primarily for this mode of the game: patched up to 1.27, Single Player, Turn-Based (only TB or at least mostly TB), squad-based gameplay (viability in 1-man is doubtful).


2. Suggested main character roles, from most important to least important.

2.1. Sharpshooter (able to kill things ASAP from far away).
2.2. Leader (Better recruits and equipment available sooner, more recruits (and, perhaps equipment?) at the end of the game, "leader" perk).
2.3. Being able to use as many game's features as possible, if not harming two first goals.
2.4. Ammo-effective, i.e. - getting better average_exp-per-buck ratio, assuming that we buy (or do not sell already collected) gun rounds.

Note: 2.3 and 2.4 roles are about same importance to me. This may vary from player to player, ofcourse.


3. Creating the character.

3.1. Required stats, aka "must have".
str: 3.
per: 6.
end: 1.
cha: 5.
int: 5.
agi: 6.
lck: 5.
Total points required: 31. Remaining points: 9.

Note: this is having "gifted" in mind, either at start or after "mutate" perk; and no "small frame" for an end-game.

3.2. Recommended stats.
str: 4.
per: 7.
end: 1.
cha: 7.
int: 9.
agi: 7.
lck: 5.
Total: 40 (all we got).
Edit: 8 perception prooved to be better, really - could get 10 with Divine Favor and Gifted, IF you take that one more point for it from Intelligence. Divine Favor, if more than one stat is the "highest", will increase only one stat among these "highest", namely the one which is higher in the stat list. For a Perception-Intelligence pair, this will be Perception increased. If you are not going to get Divine Favor, than get 1 point from agility and put it into perception. With Gifted, it'll be 10 perception and 7 agility - but you can get 1 more agility while doing a fight near any recruit with Leader perk, so it's only temporary loss for a first part of the game. 10 perception really increase maximum range of fire, and we can afford to get it.


Recommended gender: female.

3.3. Required skills (to tag in the start).
Small guns OR energy weapons. See next chapter (4) to define your choice, it's possible to snipe with both or any single one, each one have advantages and drawbacks.

3.4. Recommended skills to tag.
For remaining skill tags (1 or 2), choose from: Doctor, Barter, Science (last one - only if energy weapons is tagged too). Why these? See discussion section (chapter 4).
Note: i do not recommend to use "Tag!" perk when it comes, as it means 1 less perk for "real" perks. So get all you need at the start here, and don't plan to get one more "later with perk". This is if you're not "versatility" maniac, ofcourse - but in this guide, we are speaking about sharpshooter and leader in the first two places, not the "mainly support" character. Again, more details in chapter 4.

3.5. Recommended Traits and Perks (planned up to lvl 21).

There are few rational variations of taking perks for described character. I will list here the way i prefer it. Alternatives and discussion will be in chapter 4.

Traits at the start: Gifted Kamikadze. //sounds fun, BTW. ;)
Trait to get with "Mutate" perk: none.

Note: I do not recommed to use "mutate" at all. Why? See chapter 4 for a discussion about that, since my recomendation here *is* questionable and i know it.

Perks (they will be available if (at least) "required" stats fulfilled, together with "Gifted" trait):
lvl 3: Anything you like - Educated or Swift Learner are very good ones, if not best. Pick yours. Or - save it until lvl 4.
lvl 4: if saved from lvl 3: Leader (lvl=4, cha=6 req).
lvl 6: More Criticals or Bonus Ranged Damage.
lvl 9: Sharpshooter OR save it until lvl 14 and then pick Divine Favor.
lvl 12: Action Boy.
lvl 14: That is if you are intend to get 25+ levels eventually, and saved lvl 9 perk-point: then - Divine Favor.
lvl 15: Bonus Rate of Fire. (best perk of all times, perhaps. :) ).

then, either no-Divine-Favor way:
lvl 18: Better Criticals.
lvl 21: More Criticals or Bonus Ranged Damage.
lvl 24: Sniper (AFAIK, it DOES work. It's just not that *luck roll* occurs that much... Especially for those who have little luck). Or you can get More Range Damage (if still available - you could get it before twice, and twice is max rank for this) or More Criticals).

or Divine-Favor way:
lvl 17: Sharpshooter.
lvl 19: Better criticals.
lvl 21: More criticals (or Bonus Ranged Damage).
lvl 23: More criticals.
lvl 25: Sniper.
lvl 27, 29: Bonus Ranged Damage or More Criticals, two remaining ranks.


4. Creating the character: explanations, qustions, discussion.

4.1. Required stats are indeed required for described role. At least if i am not totally disinformed somewhere. Check the requirements for perks, too. BTW, i used this perk list for a reference: http://william_home.tripod.com/fallout/perks.html .

4.2. Recommended stats are made with this in mind:

str 4 plus Gifted = hunted rifle, sniper rifle, AK-47, laser rifle and more very viable guns, unavailable to any character with str=4 or less. So, for a solid part of the game (before power armor) you will need it. Ofcourse, with power armor we will get one not-required str point (best-damage sniping rifles require str=6), but then with adv. power armor it will be str=9, and i guess it's even more of an over-kill. Well, if player want to be a bit more "hardcore" and also more end-game oriented - get str 3 at start plus gifted, use a pump shotgun (req 4 str) and pistols, whatever. With power armor you'll get perfect 6. And it seems that best place for that one extra point is either lck (for extra +1% to crit) or Cha. Even more, there is interesting variation available then: lower int by 1, and put yet another point into Charisma. With gifted in will be 10. With Divine Favor it would be +1 to Charisma being the highest stat. And while near a General, it could raise it to insane 13... But i've read somewhere that there is a limit of 12 for such improvements of stats - for human race, that is. Err, well, choose what you do like more. If in doubts, then just stick to recommended values, and you should be fine shooter, and fine leader, and enough skilled as well.

Next, perception: 8 is good. Yes, i think it's quite ideal. Enough for a Sniper perk at lvl 24. 7 is required for Sharpshooter perk. Anything higher than 8 is not really required: Sharpshooter perk do its job to make Perception "virtually" 10 for shooting. One perk for "virtually" two stat points - good thing. Economic. Gun skill will be high anyways. That's enough for any target, at any range. Any objections? =)

Next, endurance: 1. Well, formulae for health-per-level is end/2+3, with gifted it's +4 hit points per level. To make it 5 health points per level we need TWO more points in endurance. Waste it here to get mere +25 or so hit points end-game, on top of 100+ we would get with end=1 in the start? For a sniper? Naaah, not me. ;) Lifegiver perk with end=4 (with gifted)? Well, this perk will be somewhat more effective, +4 hit points for nearly half of levels (about 12 or so for a usual game). But then we spend a perk for it ON TOP of extra points into endurance. And both things will be substracted from our firepower or skillpoints-per-level. Too bad. This only can be viable in Tough-Guy mode. But if you're so tough, then why are you reading this? Joke! ;)

Charisma (8 with Gifted - recommended): well, read biggest article of chapter 4 below, in Traits and Perks section. It's quite tied up with 'em. Other than that, i think this alec's post will be of major interest for our character:
alec said:
I've played FOT a hell of a lot, and I did notice differences when you lower your CH. With CH2 you can get three new recruits after the first mission, but they all stink since they are initiates (the only really good one is Trevor, imo, his Throwing skill combined with ST9 is quite usefull). With CH6 or more (I forget), you'll get to choose from 6 recruits after mission 1 and 3 of them will be senior initiates (great recruits like Rage and Rebecca!). With CH2 you'll only get a chance to recruit Rage and Rebecca after (I think) the third mission, which sucks since Rage's Awareness Perk and Rebecca's Lockpick skills are very usefull from the start of the game (I mean, that way you won't have to spend a perk on Awareness and you won't have to tag Lockpick - you can tag other skills, choose combat perks, whatever...).

All my experiences with FOT have showed me that CH DOES indeed influence the recruits pool. Some say it's your rank that does (and they might be right as well, but rank certainly isn't the only factor). CH also affects the skills and stats of the recruits, by the way.

So, in general, I would say that the CH of your character influences the amount of recruits in the recruits pool and the quality of those recruits (how good they are).

Intelligence. Well, 10 in it gives you 400 skill points (minimum; slightly more if doing a trick with mutating into the Gifted @lvl9, but that consume 1 perk only giving (5-2)*8=24 skill points. In compare to 400, quite a minor bonus. 1 perk "lost" seems much more important. Also, start of the game will be harder - less stats, less weapons, few less hitpoints "forever", waiting for perks till lvl 9 due to not having enough stats... I say get Gifted at the start. Yet, with int=10 (gifted) being highest stat, if you'll get Divine Favor @lvl14, then it's +14 skill points - 414 total @lvl 21, and +2 extra each level after that. And you don't loose anything! ;) ). So, once again, at least 400 @lvl 21 if 10 int. But, if, say, it woulda be only 8 (with Gifted) Int - then we see only 320 skillpoints @lvl21! 80 points, aka 20% loss. That's a punch, in fact: what usefull we can get for this loss? +2 luck for a +2% crit chance? Well, with perks and drugs we will have about (or even above) 25% crit chance in tough battles, and 21% without drugs in regular ones. To get 23% percents instead... Surely usefull, but seems not worthy of a loss of 80 skillpoints (and even more if going to higher levels, while bonus to crit chance remains THE SAME). Or we could get Agility=10. No need for Action boy, then. And slightly higher gun skill at the start. So, basicly, it's (80 skillpoints) vs (1 perk + ~20 skillpoints increase to gun skills) trade. And also it will change higher stat for Divine Favor - from Int to Agility. Well, if player would like it - go ahead and do it, 8 Intelligence and 10 Agility it'll be then.On top of all that - keep in mind that the more Int you main character have - the more skillpoints you will get from books.Edit: i was wrong here - read further posts to find out more about Int and books..
BTW, interesting thought... Let's say we will SAVE all found books up until lvl 14, will use required specialists (driver, outdoorsman, repair, etc) from recruit pool (yes, this will weaken overall firepower of the squad somewhat) - but then, at lvl 14, we get Divine Favor, Int become 11, and we read all the books with main character? Heck, it could bring solid amount of extra-points total. With no drawbacks in further gameplay. Well, seems it's just another little "trick" for a patient and seasoned FoT veteran to try. :) Edit: i was wrong. Intelligence doesn't modify gains from books.

Agility. 8 with Gifted recommended, 7 may be ok as well, if player can wait for Leader perk on one of the Recruits to get one more from there. It's easy: one Action Boy perk gets the character to 10 APs. And Faster Rate of Fire makes it to be exactly two precise shots per round with best sniper rifles (it costs 6 AP initialy to do an aimed shot with them). So, we have to choose what to spend: 2 stat points which are going to be substructed from other stat and thus harm it noticeably and permanently - or spend one perk, save other usefull values of other stats, and tolerate 1 less AP for first 14 levels (up to 15th). I choose to spend a perk. If someone choose opposite - please, explain why. In general, just like with the Sharpshooter, this perk gives "virtually" two stat points (into agility), thus being very effective. Well, it won't increase AC by 2... But not because it's not actual +2 agility - i prefer to say that it's because we made KAMIKADZE character, who don't get any AC from AGI at all! See the point? ;)

Luck. 6 With gifted. Required, recommended. Required for VERY core perk line of any truth sniper: More Criticals. Three times. More luck would be nice always, but it seems that other stats do benefit our character more from few extra-points we have to distribute above "required" setup. Only possible exception is described above in Str part.

Gender: females are smaller. They are able to through narrow passages - while men can't. So far, i didn't find any practical use for it... Yet.

Age - QUESTION: is there any in-game effect being older-aged (about 60 years or so)? Perhaps i'll make a search later about it. Edit: i made the search, but was enable to find any FoT info about the age of a character. Sad.


4.3. And 4.4. too, why not. :) Skills to tag: explanations, qustions, discussion.

So, if anyone wonder why it's Doctor, - it's not only good heals, some extra exp for a main character, fixing broken bones etc, - this is ALSO a bonus to damage to any living creature. Yep, the higher Doctor skill you have, the more bonus damage you do to living creatures. And it IS noticeable. I'd say that character with 150% in Doctor do about 20% or so more damage per shot to a living being than a character with about 50% Doctor. Alas, it's also highly dependant on Direct_Damage_Reduction of enemy's armor (worn or natural; for example, rad scorpions, as far as i can tell, just have high Damage_Reduction_Percentage, while Mutants, it seems, really have solid Direct_Damage_Reduction as well). And last piece: Doctor can't be learnt via books, so it's worth to pump yourself. Something about 150 seems to be ideal by the end-game. 100% is enough, tho, in the start and mid-game (you need skillpoints for other skills too). So, to sum it up, this unique skill is for BOTH healing and damage, and you only can get it with your skillpoints - no books available. Good choice!

Next one, Barter, is even more surprising. "Barter? WooooT?" you say? :) Well, read that biggest article below in perks'n'traits part of chapter 4. I explain it there. Edit: but it's, although, disputable. Main thing against the barter skill - its wowrthlessness in the end-game stage (player just have no need to trade after certaqin point). But we have Charisma, and this skill offer some benefits nonetheless. In sum: exotical and doubtful choice.

But next one is totally whacky, you probably think? Science tagged for a main character... Nonsense? Perhaps not. It gives better damage against robots (various sources states slightly various mechanics for that; some say it's "better criticals", others say it's "bonus damage to robots"). But overall, it seems both multi-sourced info AND just logical that science noticeably add to any damage dealt against robots (especially with close analogy with bonus damage to living beings from higher Doctor skill). And robots are most tough "race" of enemies in FoT storyline. Last missions are indeed somewhat tough, especially if "you are not prepared!!!" (c) One NPC from a Blizzard game. // Err, you probably know who is it. ;) // The thing with Science tagged is a little bit tricky, too: you have to wait with putting any single point into it all the way up until the first mission against robots (Preoria turrets DOES NOT counts here! You *can* kill them, and quite fast, without science boosted: just get few hundreds shotgun shells and avoid friendly fire while killing it; let most armored and healthiest character make the approach running, use most powerfull drugs, stimpacks, etc as required - if required. Any melee character with a energy-based knife will damage well as well). So, last missions are against robots. At that point, you have two of your other tagged skills rather high. You can shoot well. So, have about 60-80 skill points saved, and have all science books you found - read by main character. This will get you above 100 from books only. Add those skillpoints, and you're about 160 or even 170+ with science. Now that woulda BE some extra damage to them, eh? But still, science of that high value is rather "exotic" choice. It is interesting to try, and perhaps not for the first walk through the game. It's also questionable (at least for me) if it works woth small guns - that's why i recommend to use energy guns with it. Alas, you better use energy guns (not small guns) against robots just because energy weapons are THAT much more effective against mechanical targets. Emp shells for a shotgun? Forget it. To use 'em effectively you should get rather close... Quite obviously having good chances to become "dead kamikadze". Hehe. So, i recommend to use your saves of previous campaign, pick or make two equal (in "shooter" terms) recruits, raise science for one of them, and test the difference. If i ever will do it myself, i'll share the results here.

Big guns skill: just don't take (tag or put anything into) it. Why? Simple. You're charismatic shooter. You may have enough strength for M2 in adv. power armor, yes. And 7 str in power armor for some of other big guns, as well. But you have little life. You have no +life perks. No toughness. No AC bonus from your agility. Even in best armor, you're not a tank. And big guns are most effective in medium or even close ranges, and surely they are NOT to be fired from behind other squad members. That's why you will take hits regularly if you will use big gun, while firing and/or changing position with enemies in proximity. It is possible to shoot a big gun from afar with proper tactics - but then it's about WAY more "wasted" ammo. Big guns are far less precise from far range, so most of rounds will hit nothing but air. So it *is* about closer range, and we know that taking hits with this character gotta be bad. Give big guns for tank(s), ok? ;)

Other skills: why not to tag/raise skill X? I'll answer that.

*unarmed/melee: you're low-health mid-str no-melee-perks Kamikadze. Try melee, and you will become dead Kamikadze. Again, hehehe. Period. ;)

*throwing: not highest strength around won't allow to throw things as far as you'd like to. On top of that, you're to be good sharpshooter. You're better spending your APs shooting, not throwing things. This way you will be more effective in combat. Need to throw some greens around the corner? Take more suitable recruit - and there are some for it, - and do it. And if someone is gotta go out... Well, aim to the eye. ;)

*sneak. Once again, do you want to become dead Kamikadze? :D

*lockpick/traps. Well, some locked objects are also trapped. Some just stay in radiated spots. Both are bad for low-health shooter character. It's really better to tag/teach some lockpick and traps to most suitable recruit. He would have those two developed, solid small guns for snipe/shotgun, all three tagged if possible. His/her perception and endurance are to be as high as possible. This is not "main tank", but some toughness could be usefull both in combat and for those skills. Anyways, it's both more convinient and more safe to gather all the loot/chests/lockping not by end=1(2) Kamikadze sharpshooter. So, just another role for someone in squad. Oh, and BTW, demolition books, perhaps, is only sort of books which could go not to your main character, but to that primary trap/lockpick specialist BEFORE he start to raise the traps skill with his own points, - provided that you will always have him in your squad.

*stealing. Well, main character have reputation. I was not able to find out if stealing may affect it. Even if not, i can't recommend stealing just because it's not a skill for everyone: some people, including me, just don't use "steal" in games. We don't find this entertaining. :P Other than above, good thief, if you want to have it, gotta have appropriate perks. Use Bebs, right? And, as well-known, you can let her to be in base while more combat-oriented guys'n'girls make *really* dirty work done. Voila!

*first aid. Well, read them books. You'll get more than enough to get those exp points reliably. Or, if you like, give those books to a doc, and make HIM to use all those first aid kits. Due to his perks of a doctor, he will be more effective with healing. Yet, you will not get that exp to the main character then... Matter of taste. For me - i prefer reading the books and getting that exp with my main. If you know you gotta need lots of healing, say, you dare to try Tough Guy mode in hardest difficulty, - then learning first-aid books by non-main character and getting more healing power may proove to be more usefull. But tag it for main? Well, *this* woulda be nonsense, i think...

*repair. Read 'em books, period. Alas, i won't be much surprised if this skill will also have some hidden bonus effect like Doctor or Science. But for now, i do not know of any. So - not worthy a tag nor a single skillpoint for a main character.

*pilot. Your pilot, no matter main character or not, gotta read books and it'll be fine. BTW, interesting question: while driving through the wastes, which outdoursman skill is in use: pilot's - or best of squad? Even more important, if not-a-pilot have perks like "scout", "better rate of random encounters", etc, while pilot do not have them - will these perks work? For now, i am quite sure that answers are "best in squad" and "yes". If it's so, i'd appreciate a confirmation.

*gambling. Well, your main character will be in combat, always. And it is very possible and logical to develop a gambler other than your main character, but keep him inside the bunkers, resting in the pool of the recruits while your squad of terminators is outside - and, if required, that gambler being taken to certain location specifically, intentionally, for a short "there and back" gamble trip. So, forget gambling, i say. Right?

*outdoorsman. Read 'em books, yo. :) BTW, there is a little trick, as with most of the books in game. Usual approach is to read the books with the main character. Well, this will give your main, eventually, 100+ in the skill. Good enough to say "no" to almost any encounter. Yet, i am a bit suspicious about how much of outdoorsman your squad really could benefit from. In theory, it's better to get someone with this skill tagged, have him in the squad all the time, read the books with him (not with main) for as long as possible, and only then push the skill up sky high (perhaps 175 or even 200, depends on int). Or even more? But in any case, i am pretty sure that science is more valuable asset, while Doctor and Barter being further more viable. But if i missed something - please feel free to explain *real* mechanics of outdoorsman with above 100 value... Which i didn't find myself, and don't feel the need even to bother with such search for now.


About main gun skills - small vs energy vs small+energy: see very end of that big article a bit below.


4.5. Traits and Perks: explanations, qustions, discussion.

Leader (perk) - questions:
Q1: are multiple Leaders add to each other (if more than one character in squad have the perk, and they all are in range)?
Comment on that: I've read that two characters, both with this perk, will increase Agility of other party members by 2, while themselves both having +1 agility from each other. Anyone tested that? And then, what about more than two? Let's say we make main character to have Leader, then we give this perk also to Sharon, Kevin and Stitch (Stich will need to get Gifted first, obviously): this way it'll be FOUR Leader perks active in the same time, in the same place. That, - in theory, - should result in +3 to agility to those four characters, and +4 agility to any other two. I know it's possible to Mutate for a Farsight too, but myself, i do not use it: she have no traits initially, and i consider it unsportish to use a perk which is supposed to need at least one trait present - on a character without traits. Period. But there are more recruits later in the game with Leader perk - or with just enough Charisma to take this perk manually. Clarisse, in fact, just have it already with her. So, if ALL six squad members will have leader - this is +5 Agility to anyone (in theory). Again, anyone willing to test it out, eh? =) And don't forget about +25 AC for each character, too... In case those pile up too. Seems pretty damn good, i say!
Edit: Answer: they do not stack at all, Leader perks from more than 1 character with that perk, that is. Period.

2. Err, this one should be first... Anyways: _as far as i can get_ _from the current internet_ (rap, yo, cmon! :D ) - is it possible (and i mean ONLY using fair-play in-game methods) to give a Leader perk to the recruits? My guess is, currently, a "no".Edit: should be possible, and even usefull, as main character get +1 agility and +5 AC "for free". Leader perks do not stack, though.

Brown Noser - question: for a cha=8 (with "Gifted") leader, is it possible to get Clarisse after completing Newton, given that we do all the side quests we can do in the game properly, - and WITHOUT "Brown Noser" perk? I suggest answer is "yes", but i am not completely sure. Any confirmation will be appreciated!

Brown Noser - note: if above question indeed have an answer = "yes", then obviously we save a perk not using "Brown Noser". Clarisse is a General rank, so if we can hire her, then our character is "General" herself (mentat or not), highest rank in the game. And it means that we got all we can from rank system, equipment in BoS bunkers and best recruit(s) available - without wasting a perk to "Brown Noser".

Brown Noser and Divine Favor and cha=8 and starting/not_starting with Barter tagged (not-so-obvious benefits inside) and some Sharon planning - article:
We need cha=8 (with Gifted) to get Divine Favor. It's a good "getting to the edge" lvl 14 (saved from 12) perk for anyone who do plan to get at least 25th lvl for a main character. For crazy people playing "tough guy" it's a common thing to get even 27th, and it makes Divine Favor even more worthy. At last, for craziest people who would try insane task of levelling to 29 or even beyond - Divine Favor is definitely the way to go. So, we need cha=8 if we are about to be more powerful in high-level. Also, there is yet another reason not to go with cha=6 (Brown Noser or not), if player tagged and somewhat developed "barter" skill: after each mission we are to check recruit pool and inventory of BoS vendor. The better our rank is, the better equipment and recruits we get (generally). Rank is dependant on *current* charisma's value (amongst other factors), so we can eat some mentats - there is good possibility that our rank will raise due to higher Charisma (tested myself, works, but not at every point of the game even +3 cha from mentats gives additional rank. Save before trying). Ok, but now, if our main character have "barter" tagged and somewhat developed - with 8 "hardpoint" Charisma, and with +2 or even +3 Charisma from Mentat - she can be quite effective at selling/buying things at BoS bases! The key thing of that is: we will want our MAIN character to get that mentats in hope of getting higher rank before checking recruits/equipment for sale. And there are not so many mentats in the game to spend it on main character AND on another character being the trader. At main character, we virtually have "free" (in "for trade in bunker" terms) Charisma buffs, and with cha=8 on main character, we simply can't find any recruit with better Charisma (Except Sharon mutated into "Gifted" to get cha=9, and then may be get Divine Favor @lvl14 to get Cha even higher (to 10). However, IMO, she is way more viable with a tank/gunner role. Notice her tagged small and big guns, her ability to get Bonus Rate of Fire if Gifted with Mutate - so easily 2 bursts @lvl 15 (that's 2 perks already - @ lvl 15 and lvl 9 accordingly); her ability to take Toughness perks (for ultimate protection against incoming damage, take all 3 ranks - @lvl 6, lvl 12 and lvl 18); exactly 9 str in power armor for M2 (best big gun), and she will be able to make 2 bursts per round; notice her rather high endurance (7 hit points per level with Gifted, solid resistances); just enough int to get small guns to 125+ and big guns up to 175+ (end-game) even with Gifted; just enough Perception to shoot mid-ranges; her trait for chems helps to make her better tank before MOST tough fights via drugs; and she's a *girl* too ;) ). If above is not enough - well, there are more reasons to have barter being developed by your main character. Quite surprisingly, aye. These are: 3) Having at least 400 skillpoints to distribute among tagged skills, our main character really can afford to dropping somewhat from 100 to 150 into barter total (about 150%...160% barter end-game, and 125% or even 150% very very early, depends on which gun skill chosen). Gun skill will get 200-220 skillpoints end-game. Third skill then will get 50 to 80 skill points. All three being tagged from the start, they will get high enough. With more levels and/or Divine Favor perk - character will be even more abundant with skill points. All that without any need of Mutate and Tag perks, thus allowing for more other perks we choose - and this means more combat power, according to our primary role. Now, there are simply NONE recruits who could combine those two roles - trader and fighter, - nearly as good. We already spoke about Sharon. Way low Int she have. Other candidates have lower Charisma, far from 10 intelligence, taking Mutate for Gifted will decrease their skill-per-lvl rate by 3, increasing combat abilities - while decreasing skills potential -> ability to combine fighting and trading remain neraly the same... All in all, main character, designed as described above, is very best (if not only) candidate to be both good (if not excellent) sniper AND good enough trader. 4) if you make Sharon being a trader, then she have VERY low personal combat viability in compare to other recruits - due to limited skillpoints she can't be very good BOTH in gun skill and Barter. That's why you would want her staying in Bunkers (recruit pool), taking someone better suitable for a fight outside. But then, you won't have viable trader available in missions and random encounters. Minor loss, but still a loss. Next, 5) i found it very convinient to have all "weightless" items stocked for future use on my main character (if she's a trader). Reasons are obvious: always available, less mess in vehicle's stored item's list (usually huge), no need to give some of them to another character if you need to sell, no need to take them from other character if you want to use some on main character, direct buying of drugs&such in bunkers, etc. This is also convenient to have all sales giving money to the main character directly. Time savers. Saved bits of time are to be spent for more fun things... You know. Ripped heads, rivers of blood, explosions and such. Few more experience points average per time frame for the party, too! ;) Next, 6) if main character will get barter tagged from the start, then it can be quickly developed rather early. Since gun skill can wait (small guns are to get some books first - and energy guns are available only in second half of the game), Doctor can wait simply due to Stich can help with broken bones for the first levels, and Science is for robots - also about second half of the game, generally. So, naturally, it's rather convinient to get quite viable Barter skill early, and earlier good trades - quite a chunk of extra buck (or time-saver, - for those who pile up the loot to sell it much later with skilled trader). Another minor plus. And last but not least: 7) it's known that only main character's rank define quality of available mercs (not rank of any other character, that is). I've also read in various places that main character's rank define currently-available-for-buying BoS equipment. I suppose that if we raise the rank with Mentats, it not only gives access to the "next line" of recruits sometimes (not always, aye), but also, when we will go to trade with BoS vendor - then we (theory!) should get better equipment (at least sometimes), too! Someone didn't ever see gauss weapons/ammo in stock? Well, this may (or may not?) be a way to go, and if so, - trades in incounters and in missions could probably have better trade goods as well (pure assumption, though - i have no proof for it so far). If someone can confirm or deny this - please do!

As for NOT developing a barter with main character: things are rather easy. Science add some bonus damage vs robots, Doctor adds some vs living (yep, skill itself, notice how Stich doing slightly better damage to anything alive with hunting rifle in compare to Farsight - this is just because he's a Doc, while Farsight is not. At least i think so). Higher Doctor = more damage to living beings. Higher science = more damage to robots (boost it with books first! Preoria's turrets are NOT a reason to put your own skill points too early into science. Wait till MAPS of robots to do it). Science have better potential thanks to books raising it BEFORE boosting with own skillpoints. On the other hand, Doctor is good to have for it's primary use - healing, removing "cripling" status effects, some extra exp for main character. So, if not barter, then it's either one gun skill plus both Doctor *and* Science - this way it's higher gun skill and more bonuses to damage; OR, it's two gun skills (small and energy guns, to remind), and either Doctor (recommended) or science - this way it's about lower gun skills, less damage bonuses from aux skills, BUT you will be able to use all sniping guns throught the whole game. And this is kinda cool for many people. Bartering to be made by Stich before lvl 12, and by Sharon after lvl 12 (save ALL skillpoints of her in this case for putting them into tagged Barter. She will be hell of a trader end-game, aye...).

My personal choice, BTW, is to go with: Energy weapons, Barter, Doctor, or, if not barter, - Energy weapons, Science, Doctor. And read all books about small guns and science, that is. Nearly 100 skillpoints to tagged Barter to get it to 150+. 80 skillpoints to tagged Doctor to make it about 140. And ~220 points to Energy guns will get it to 200, anything beyond 200 is kinda too expensive and not-so-rewarding. If anyone need precise numbers "end-game" - let me know, but it's really easy to find out and not that important to be 1-2% precise anyways. And to end skills section, i'll rephraze general rule of skilling up good character of this kind: NO fourth tagged skill to save a perk, and not a single point into non-tagged skills, as we do get benefits for our primary role from two (or even three, if not Barter) tagged skills, while Barter serving somewhat and fits great to/with a second goal of a character (being a leader, hence having 8 Charisma).


5. Playing the character.

5.1. If you can shoot, - shoot, don't do something else until that "something else" is very required (ex: going out of enemy's line/sector/range of fire, while there are no better tactical solution to the situation). If you can aim - aim, at least until it's not less shots per round.

5.2. Shoot first in squad when possible. Your crits may be devastating. 1-shot kills happens. Shame if you almost killed the foe with gunfire of teammates, then switched to main, and shot devastating sritical: most of your damage is WASTED. And APs and ammo of those teammates wasted as well! So, if crit, you're the king. If not, let others finish 'em, you'll be a kind again soon enough. ;) And, BTW, in TB your main character IS first in the squad, so firing first will save you some clicks, as game automatically choose "next" teammate to act if you spent all your APs.

5.3. Spend all your APs. :) I mean, if you got 1..3 left, and it's not enough for another shot - well, try to get a habit to use these to get better position for your main character. Pull back if enemies seem to be too dangerous. Take some sidesteps if it's better to change sector of your fire. Crouch if under fire and/or for better hit percentages.

5.4. Stay with team, or bigger part of the team, whenever possible. You're the leader. You provide up to 25 AC and up to 5 Agility to your people total. This is serious bonus. And another reason: safety. Generally, you're more likely to get shot to death if somewhat separated from the group - and went into an ambush.

5.5. Experiment with various body parts of the victims all the time. Mileage will vary from game to game and from mode to mode; and from foe to foe. Your growth also changes things there. Although, there are some basic rules. If, somehow, dear reader still don't know them: shoot the legs in hope to slow 'em down (oh, my fury poor deathclaw... Something with ankle, eh? =) ), arms to slow or even disable their attack abilities (who said those turrets in Preoria are dangerous? Get some crits to weapon mounts from afar, you got anough rounds to cripple 'em ;) It's just about patience and crit chances, tho); aim to eyes to blind 'em and do craziest damage sometimes (1000+ crits are possible there, even on this very board there are at least two reports of such, best being 1300+). Other body parts may or may not be worth to shoot at, and generally have more variable viability/effects_frequency.

5.6. Try not to waste too good ammunition for too weak enemies. Example: it's a waste to kill a cockroach with a plasma gun. You can kill some cockroachs with usual Sniper Rifle, thus saving ammo for plasma gun. After that, you may go and kill robot or two with that ammo. So, you killed both groups. But if it was your last batteries, and you spent them for cockroaches - then you, quite possibly, won't kill robots: 7.62 sniper rifle will be TIMES less effective against those armored piles of junk. If, say, you're ONLY energy - *do* bother to use a pistol in a left hand: for the similar reason, and for the faster fire rate as well when sometimes required, BTW. And when i say "faster", it means a shot for every 2 APs @lvl15+. For a sniper it's just... Neat! ;)

5.7. Have some drugs. And use them well and smart. Best drug for a shooter, and best drug in game as well - Voodoo. Do not bring addiction with it. And grants +2 agi and +3 luck, for quite a long time - many game's hours, IIRC. On the other hand, it's really expensive, too. So, your choice! But at very least, if you're going to the last mission and ready to finish the game - Voodoo can add a lot of destruction to the scene, and there won't be any regret as well. Mentat, Buffout, AfterGum, Psycho - all can be usefull to you in appropriate situation. If anyone need their effects, just google about it - or leave a request in this thread. It's better not to waste drugs when you can get away without using 'em, tho: addiction is a bad thing, and they also make a good "valuables" reserve, having no weight and selling for good money. In some cases, some "doses" to main tank will be more effective or even only_rational choice.

5.8. Avoid nights as much as possible. Can't shoot a guy 50 tiles away if you don't see at all another similar guy in 20 tiles. Right?

5.9. If you're planning to do lots of not-so-tough random encounters for exp/loot in later part of the game (say, before the last mission), or even, ultimately, become a ever-levelling monster - then plan your end-game group in such a way that everyone would be able to snipe tolerably (at least) or good-to-excellent (preferably). Even more than that, have only one, or maximum two characters sniping with energy weapons - for 4 or 5 characters develop high enough Small Guns skill. Ensure that Per=6 is a minimum without drugs. And get as much 7.62 ammo as you can. With proper approach and proper area, you can kill very fast doing 3 (even 4 with some recruits) unaimed shots per round with Sniper rifles. It's about up to 20 shots per round, if your squad stand still. In all your people use single-shot weapons, then you can select them all and fire 6 bullets into a single foe with one click. Now THAT is fast. :) Many dozens of thousands of experience can be made with such a hunts. Sniper rifles, massive fire and as many crits as you can provide (others teammembers better have as many Better Criticals as possible in this case) - and you save your time by not spending your real-life time to manuever, individual placement of recruits, aiming, avoiding enemy's fire. Just shooting them down while they are very far away, jumping into a car, and off we goo to the next one. Once again, doesn't work when it's dark. If i will have the time, i'll see how far *i* can get in levels. Just for the heck of it. :D

Ofcourse there is much more about sniping in general and in details. Well, happy googling, and good luck in field trying it for yourself!


6. Misc (i.e., various important things).

6.1. Be sure to "passively raise" at least best ones of the "currently in the recruit pool" recruits - you may need them later. If not, it won't hurt. If yes, you would find your little effort being VERY worth that little time you spent doing it. Perhaps later i will put the exact way to do it properly - with credit to the respected author who already made it in this very board.
So here it is, wrote by Robhiengler in one of threads waaaay below:
"
open up the recruitment pool
empty your current squad members
add other individuals
click on your character portrait
click view
click done
DO NOT EXIT the recruitment pool
remove the NPC's
add other NPC's
repeat until all the people you want leveled up
are done.

exit the recruitment screen
level up your NPC's go back and swap in the other pooled squad members.
"

7. Credits.
First of all, comes to dear reader who tolerated lots of typos and my bad english. I tried to bring in more thoughts in hope that i will be understood even not being good-tongued. If so, - thanks! :)
Next, credints come to me, as i wrote that all by myself. Lots of typing'n'thinking, yaiks! =)
But i would not be able to put together even such a lousy guide, if not all the FoT people of this board and many more around all the internet. So, their efforts also counts in!
Robhiengler for description of (presumably) safe method of keeping many mercs up with main character, while staying in recruit pool. He made it some time ago in this very forum.
alec for his post about Charisma (included into this document in its entirety).

That's it.

Original concept, analisys, compilation and texts by WVr.

P.S. Ah, and do me a favor an don't put this text onto any other site or board - please contact me first and say where you'd like to publicate it (if you do). Fyujin2@gmail.com is my mailbox. Or just post here or PM me. If i don't answer in a week, then please consider that as a "no". Or i won't give you any donuts even if you'd beg for them, ever. :P
 
WVr said:
But i've read somewhere that there is a limit of 12 for such improvements of stats - for human race, that is. Err, well, choose what you do like

more. If in doubts, then just stick to recommended values, and you should be fine shooter, and fine leader, and enough skilled as well.
You've read somewhere? You mean you've posted a guide without thoroughly testing everything in it? :roll:

Yes there is a limit of +2 above the racial maximum. For humans the limit is 12.

Barter is useless for the main character, this isn't a role playing game. FOT has so much stuff a good sniper should never need to visit the QM, a machine gunner maybe but not a sniper. Besides with good natured Stitch is an excellent choice for your personal shopper. Give him the perks gain charisma and tag (barter) and he becomes a bartering powerhouse.

Voodoo does have negative effects and a (low) chance of addiction, with an endurance of 2 you will feel those affects.

Use books when and where you find them, intelligence doesn't affect how many points you get from reading a book, neither does tagging only comprehension. Even then there's a limit of 98% to be gained per skill. Without comprehension you'll need to read 12 books to add 98% and with the perk you'll only need 9 books per skill. Then there's a further limit of 155%, once your skill reaches or exceeds 155% no number of books will raise it any further. Normally the first 4 books will net you 15% each, with the comprehension perk 22% for the first 3 after that the amount reduces quickly to 1% a book so to get the most out of books use them early and share them 3-4 per squad member.

Endurance adds more than hitpoints it also affects your resistances. With a very low endurance you'll risk overdosing or becoming addicted to drugs a lot more often. As well as being more susceptible to poison and radiation. 2 endurance might be very well for multiplayer but wait and see how sick your character will become during Preoria, Mardin, Jefferson and Kansas City.

Unless you are going to put 10 into charisma or really want divine favour 6 is high enough for a leader. Recruits will not become available before they are scripted, no matter what your rank. Divine favour only increases your highest stat by 1 and your perk rate by 1. Nothing else, no +2 to charisma in the presence of Generals and Mayors, sheesh there's not even a way in the game to flag someone as a mayor. Is it really worth the 2 extra points in charisma? Maybe if you took Skilled in character creation not gifted.

Leader doesn't stack, there's no reason why a recruit can't take leader honestly (if they meet the requirements) but the only benefit of having more than one character with leader is that the main character gets the bonus as well or you can split your squad up and still get the bonus.

Agility isn't just about action points or armour class, it's the basis for the small guns skill. Small guns does not use any other stat in it's formula a high agility is a must for a sniper character.

Sneak is very important for a sniper, just think about real life snipers and their ghillie suits. Sneak allows you to get into optimum range undetected. Very important when you haven't got power armour, even more so if you have taken Kamikaze.

The idea of the Kamikaze trait is to get in close, better for melee and close quarter combatants, for the sniper One hander is a good choice for a trait. Despite the description it actually gives you a 10% bonus to small guns, throwing, unarmed & melee at a cost of -20% to your big guns skill. Combined with reading books you can get away with not tagging small guns if you plan to switch to energy weapons later in the game.

Agreed the Sniper Perk isn't broken, but unless you are playing a really high luck character it's a waste of a perk.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
You've read somewhere? You mean you've posted a guide without thoroughly testing everything in it? :roll:
Yes. I did. But, do you see many thouroughly tested guides around? But that's not an excuse for wrong name for the post. Nor trying to share my effort, althoughtmore if it have rather lousy result. Before slapping me, please consider that i'm a foreigner and that was my first post about FoT ever. May be that slap won't be a critical then. :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Yes there is a limit of +2 above the racial maximum. For humans the limit is 12.
Into the edit list. x1.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Barter is useless for the main character, this isn't a role playing game. FOT has so much stuff a good sniper should never need to visit the QM, a machine gunner maybe but not a sniper. Besides with good natured Stitch is an excellent choice for your personal shopper. Give him the perks gain charisma and tag (barter) and he becomes a bartering powerhouse.
Quite confident you are. Did you thouroughly tested barter yourself - with main character, i mean? I am serious. Anyways, if i hear that confidence in *your* voice on this subject - then barter will be demoted to at least "exotic alternative". But i'll wait for what you say about your thouroughly tests on that. I really won't be surprised if you did it.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Voodoo does have negative effects and a (low) chance of addiction, with an endurance of 2 you will feel those affects.
Thanks. Into the edit list. x2.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Use books when and where you find them, intelligence doesn't affect how many points you get from reading a book, neither does tagging; only comprehension does. Even then there's a limit of 98% to be gained per skill. Without comprehension you'll need to read 12 books to add 98% and with the perk you'll only need 9 books per skill. Then there's a further limit of 155%, once your skill reaches or exceeds 155% no number of books will raise it any further. Normally the first 4 books will net you 15% each, with the comprehension perk 22% for the first 3 after that the amount reduces quickly to 1% a book so to get the most out of books use them early and share them 3-4 per squad member.
Into the edit list. x3. Note: i think that those red pieces in the quote above makes that sentence more understandable. May we have it with my little add?

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Endurance adds more than hitpoints it also affects your resistances. With a very low endurance you'll risk overdosing or becoming addicted to drugs a lot more often. As well as being more susceptible to poison and radiation. 2 endurance might be very well for multiplayer but wait and see how sick your character will become during Preoria, Mardin, Jefferson and Kansas City.
Single radX before entering (if player know it) or with any first signs of radiation on sight. There is also unsportish, but effective reloading. For tough guys - they should know when to radX, or they are not tough. Right? For a poison: if you play SP, your sniper get poisoned very rarely before power armor. After it it really doesn't matter. IIRC. I think. Err... Correct? :oops: As for drugs - i should investigate this fully, thanks for the direction to give a heavy look into.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Unless you are going to put 10 into charisma or really want divine favour 6 is high enough for a leader. Recruits will not become available before they are scripted, no matter what your rank. Divine favour only increases your highest stat by 1 and your perk rate by 1. Nothing else, no +2 to charisma in the presence of Generals and Mayors, sheesh there's not even a way in the game to flag someone as a mayor. Is it really worth the 2 extra points in charisma? Maybe if you took Skilled in character creation not gifted.
Right. I got your words. No +2 Cha. Can live with that. Leader is fine with cha 6. Weill, let's say i get Cha6->8 for a price of End4->2 (all with gifted). I guess she can live with that as well with carefull playing? And it still tied to whether barter is of any use to the main character and to if better-quality recruits may be... What i know for sure is that i do want Divine favor, but don't want Charisma = 10 (BTW, why for the heck anyone would, given your statement about barter? Help! I am a noop! =) =) =) ). Why i want divine favor, anyways: single +1 int is also a permanent and instant +12 skill *percents* to various skills. Most strong example is science: have a 4*int base. With 10 Int + Gifted it's 30% start. Let's say we read at least 6 science books before lvl 14. This should get it to 100+. And then we get +1 int. +4% science while it is over 100 - is equals 4 skill points if tagged, and 8 skill points in untagged. Am i wrong somewhere? Some other skills also will get a bonus. What interesting there is that most of them do get books to raise them. In best possible theoretical scenario (science untagged and over 100, doctor tagged over 100 or untagged and at base, other skills are untagged and (all over 100 with books where available)) - total raise of skills will be equivalent of +19 skill points. Now that is something, considering the fact that all those skills can be used actively or passively by the main character, and at very least most of them certainly are used in one way or another. Think about it. Next, +1 int would be +2 skill points a level. +20 more skillpoints at lvl 24. It's fair evaluate that this +1 intelligence is about 80% as effective as +1 intelligence at very start - at the lvl 24, that is. And with levels beyong 24 this percentage will continue to slowly grow, as more levels will benefit more from this +1 int fully. And perk part of Divine favor also kicks in after 24: at 25, we already have one "extra" perc in compare to no Divine Favor way, even counting Divine Favor as a "waste" in terms of acquired perks (in fact it's not that "lost" at all, since its +stat part, in our case - +1 int, is almost as effective and-game as quite usual and simple Gain Int).

What you will say now, i am curious. :)

I think i should said that my not-a-guide is about better end-game sniping, not simply about "better sniping". Should i edit it in appropriate manner?

Also, whacky question about divine favor: what will happen if, say, character would have 8 per, 8 cha, 8 int, 8 agi, 8 luck at lvl 14 - and will get a Divine Favor? 5 stats are "highest" for such a character, so, which one will be raised by +1? Could it be that *all* 5 will?I have basic skills with hex and am PC-friendly in general, yet (at least for now) digging into debts of FoT for modelling and testing this situation properly is kind too complicated to do in short amount of time. Playing to 14th level fairly to find out is way too long. And sorry, i but i never use trainers of cheats to speed up the tests... Sorry for that. Silly, i know. Research is research. Call this stupidity, if you want. Anything. It's just the way i am. Thus i dare to ask.
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Leader doesn't stack, there's no reason why a recruit can't take leader honestly (if they meet the requirements) but the only benefit of having more than one character with leader is that the main character gets the bonus as well or you can split your squad up and still get the bonus.
Thanks for the answer! No doubts here now. Well, there are new doubts now... Clarisse we gotta get. She should have one. For extreme end-game perfomance of the squad, it makes a sense to NOT getting leader perk to the main character. Some firepower instead! So, NOW, may be, some recruit should take it, help with it through the storyline, and quit the squad to be replaced with Clarisse. What do you say? Anyways, already to the edit list. x4.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Agility isn't just about action points or armour class, it's the basis for the small guns skill. Small guns does not use any other stat in it's formula a high agility is a must for a sniper character.
For energy guns skill as well, and also only Agi - 2xAgi it is. But even then - sorry, but i gotta say: OH RLY? (see the bolded in the quote). If so, then i am a n00p once again: i can't understand "why". It can't be just for a starting poins: ok, we loose 8% in small guns, and 4% in energy guns. Considered that untagged won't be used for sniping - we put skill points into the tagged one(s). So, 12% tagged = 6 skillpoints. For not loosing *this* we should spend 2 more stat points in the start? Nonsense... Ok, in fact, there is some more of an effect with small guns: starting 8% lower, it will stop raising 8% earlier from books. With start of 22, it still will be over 100% with patient player who want to get all he can from books for the main character. So, while before 125% (most likely) and tagged (if not tagged - no pumping up and no sniping use), we will have to spend 8 skill points. Total (with energy) will be 10. Still nonsense... Please explain. I give up. :oops:

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Sneak is very important for a sniper, just think about real life snipers and their ghillie suits. Sneak allows you to get into optimum range undetected. Very important when you haven't got power armour, even more so if you have taken Kamikaze.
Disagree. Most likely, this means that i am a noop once again... :( But i have things to object with: please, do not compare to RL. In RL, indeed, snipers are masters of sneaking and hiding. But they do wait for HOURS, sometimes DAYS in position to make a shot. They can't reload if they are killed, even if it's once per each 10 hours of the "game". They can't live on after direct bullet hit - while if FoT it's just question of dead numbers. Even end=2 FoT sniper-character can live on after direct rocket hit. Or even after two, if high-lvl (20+). Or even after 10 in few minutes, - with stimpacks and such. I think it's enough to see that your analogy is flawed and incorrect. Sorry. About in-game part: optimum range undetected? With sniper? Well, as far as i know, optimum range for a sniper is "as far as possible". I always have at least two characters with *whicked* gun skill - very very high for any given moment (small first, energy second part of the game). I do use max ranges effectively. So, if they detect me if i am even further away - no problem. They either 1) go to my squad and enter snipe range themselves - then i open fire. They can't shoot at me before i open fire: they are too far away. I can't stay undetected after i opened fire. Conclusion: no use for sneak in this scenario; 2) or they see me, and move away/hide: well, then it means i can't see them. But then it also means THEY can't see me. If they can't see me - no need of sneak. I move forward. Eventually i see them. If by that moment im in mid or close range - then my tank (and secondary tank) do the job. I don't send my snipers ahead. I send my tanks ahead. So, enemy fire at tank. They can see my sniper, truth, but as long as my tank(s) are alive, - they draw the fire on the foe(s). Conclusion: i probably a noop. Again. :x But i don't use sneak with snipers and still think it's not a good idea. Really.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
The idea of the Kamikaze trait is to get in close, better for melee and close quarter combatants, for the sniper One hander is a good choice for a trait. Despite the description it actually gives you a 10% bonus to small guns, throwing, unarmed & melee at a cost of -20% to your big guns skill. Combined with reading books you can get away with not tagging small guns if you plan to switch to energy weapons later in the game.
I see the point. And disagree it's most effective way to go is to get onehander. Who said Kamikaze is not for ranged? Damage is damage. It works. It works always, and it works great. But those +10% to small guns *can* be gained with mere skillpoints, and with not that many of them. No matter how higher we are to raise small guns after books: you will get, say, 200% small guns, while i will get, say, 195% small guns, with same amount of skill points spent into the skill, AND characters being very same except you have onehander, but i have kamikaze. I say it's about very small difference in effective to-hit percentage: where you'd have, say, 90% to hit a target (if anywhere, it is), - i'd have, say, about 88%. To be safe, let's say i'll get even lower - 85%. Then, even if we both got +30% ranged damage from perks, - you will do 130% damage with 90% chance, while i will do 155% of damage with 85% chance. For easiest math, let's say we both doing base damage of 1. Then you will do an average of 1.17 damage per shot, while i will do an average of 1.3175 damage per shot. In simple terms, it's 12% more average damage per shot for ME. Without ranged damage perks my advantage is even more. If we speak about your character leaving small guns as-is after books (and that would be 153% (untagged), isn't it), - well, with a same character but kamikaze perk, i'd reach 143%. You can do the mouth, probably, in more proper way than i, so go for it if you need numbers. For me, - +25% damage plain_always is way better than no -10% to-hit penalty in *certain* situation (-10% won't be always the case - any shot when my sniper will get capped at 95% in-field - will totally negate your better skill effect).

Another thing: for sure, i ALSO "can get away with not tagging small guns" - and NOT taking onehander, and getting 8 agi instead of 10! This is not roleplaying game, you said. Who said main character should snipe well in the first half of the game? We BOTH don't! Surely, i snipe even worse (in fact, i do not snipe for solid part of the game - until the moment i get about 3rd Sniper Rifle available for my squad). But your main, no matter the onehander, no matter higher agi, still do not have high enough small guns to outrange for good enemy AKs: how many books for it you read after completing Preoria? 4? 5? Let's say 5. It's about +70% to the skill. So you got it at 125%, perhaps 126%. What level Farsight is after Preoria? 7? 8? Let's say 7. She starts with small guns tagged, about 53% base, and 17 skill points per level. So, even without tricks with +2 skill points per level and/or +1 lvl with perks (let's think player is not to dump farsight that soon after first 7-9 levels):
17*6 = 102 skill points. Spending these just solely into small guns, she'll get:
87% @lvl 2 (main character don't have any single book yet, so is at 55%);
111% @lvl 3; 127% @lvl 4 (3 levels before main), 137% @lvl 5, 149% @lvl 6, and finally 157% at lvl 7 (and 3 skill points remaining). This difference - 126% vs 157% - is serious. In fact, Farsight already made it above book-limit of your main character. For how many levels your main will do the books? Until 12? 15? Farsight will get 195% at lvl 12.

Simple things: while reading books for small guns, other recruits are able to develop WAY higher small guns skill. They ARE better snipers in this part of the game, - as long as main character do not put his own skill points into small guns early. But that would be loss of overall main character's power, no matter whether it's intented to use small guns end-game or not. I think it's at least up to lvl 9 to have "sniper" main character being not a sniper or relatively weak sniper. So, why to demand him to snipe at all?

With agi=8 and gifted + kamikaze i will have 27% at start (untagged, going for energy). Twice less, what a mess? No. Before first two books i won't be unable to shoot pretty anyhow (while you will perform with far-from-95%, but already shooting). Then our teams will get first two books. +30% to your character - and +30% to mine. Then another two books. +30% again, for both. You're at 113%, i am at 87%. I can shoot, you can shoot, i have less chance to hit (and, ofc, better damage). About 3 more books, and i'll be over 100%, you will be over 125%. At this point, my damage bonus already begin to be of comparable force with your better chance to hit: you have better range, while i have better damage AND already having 95% chance to hit regularly (in close ranges for now) - and in these moments i do better damage, period. If we both heading to leave small guns untagged AND not invested in - then you will go all the "Sniper Rifle" period of the game with about 140%-153%, while i will have exactly 28% less: 112%-125%. You will be secondary sniper or even third sniper, as it's quite easy to have one or two mercs with about 175%...200% small gun skill. I will be supportive shooter, being able to shoot targets mid-range (and don't forget, - with extra damage). Most likely we both will carry shotguns as well, and will use them from time to time when safe enough and effective. And at last, first laser rifle. We both will have energy weapon tagged, and there is no reason for me to put less skill points into it - with 22 skill points-per-level after lvl 14. For both of us it will be our main combat skill, and we both will have it as high as we like it to the moment when it's to make a first shot. Well, at least i will.

From this point, my better damage will be clear benefit in terms of attack power. I'll have to pay a little bit attention to savety due to 10 less AC, - and a lot of attention to safety due to endurance = 2. Yet it's not only possible, but quite fun for me: less life, more damage, more potential for lvl 25+ growing.


requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Agreed the Sniper Perk isn't broken, but unless you are playing a really high luck character it's a waste of a perk.
I see. I suppose i should use search to find out why lvl 24 requirement perk, with quite harsh stat requirements as well, - is "useless" for a luck=6 character. Or perhaps to check things i already saw about it, perhaps i missed something.

Well, i did. Guess what was the first link in google answering this request: ( "fallout tactics" sniper "luck roll" useless )? Well, your post, made in this very board almost 4 years ago. Here it is:
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
It's been a while and I don't have the exact figures anymore, but last time someone mentioned the perk was broken I made a test map to try it out. I populated a small map with a few dummies (for targets) and made a character in the entity editor, levelling him up until he'd legitimately received the sniper perk. Then I equipped him and in the test map proceeded to shoot up the dummies, counting the hits he made and how many were critical. Then I edited him to remove the sniper perk and went played the map again.

IIRC when I played the map, approximately 50% of the hits made by the version with the sniper perk were criticals and only 25% of the hits by the other version (identical in every way except for the lack of the sniper perk) were criticals. Of course there are other factors involved, so it's impossible to tell for certain, but it seems likely that the perk works to me.

It seems that it's not that useless... Correction: was not so useless. I'm confused. :roll:

Here is one more interesting thing i found, this is from gamebanshee forums:
Sniper; well - if you gonna use weapons - use this Perk.
With a succesfull luck roll - your shot will be a critical. Wich means at 6 luck - you have 60% chance of a critical. (and later in the game - my luck is usually 7-8 )

edit:
Important! I've read before (could find if anyone interested in a guote) about someone completed first mission and having rank 3 right after it. It is very doubtful that he made lvl 3 - thus most likely no Brown Noser. Few minutes ago i've completed mission one, all hostages saved, made second speak with NPC there, wnt to bunker and found that i have rank 2. That is with Charisma 8. I found 1 mentats, ate it, but still rank 2 (and BTW, no side effects with enduance 2 :P ). And then i got a thought that rank is dependant on difficulty mode - i've seen similar dependancy in other games, and sometimes there is absoluetly no info about such "bonuses" from increased difficulty mode. Myself, i played FoT in normal difficulty mode so far. Right now, i'll do this: switch difficulty to highest, then i'll create new game with VERY same character, even same age, and then i'll do first mission in very same manner. To be continued.

Thanks for your answers tho. At least, they are surely up-to-date. Greatly appreciated!
 
WVr said:
Yes. I did. But, do you see many thouroughly tested guides around?
I wouldn't know I never normally read them. I only read this because you asked me to. But your guide comes across as being written by someone who's not played the game. And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner. If you had loads of questions you should of asked them and then written the guide.

WVr said:
Did you thouroughly tested barter yourself - with main character, i mean?
I compared prices to a normal Stitch and a pimped Stitch, the difference was negligible. Stitch usually got better prices in the early game either way. In the latter part of the game money or barter items become worthless anyway. I've also played through without going to the QM until leaving for Cheyenne Mountain. After buying everyone PA and a spare suit of tesla armour, more rockets, grenades and ammo than 6 people could carry I still had 682363 bos scrip left over.

WVr said:
May we have it with my little add?
If you want to quote me, do so but don't edit me.

WVr said:
Single radX before entering (if player know it) or with any first signs of radiation on sight. There is also unsportish, but effective reloading.
A single radx won't do a lot for a endurance 2 character, and I thought this guide wasn't going to have exploits? There's no mission I can remember where you can get poisoned after getting PA, but then you've got to stay alive long enough to get PA.

WVr said:
BTW, why for the heck anyone would, given your statement about barter?
Charisma affects the promotion rate, with a charisma of 6 or higher you'll get promoted after the first mission, but with a charisma of 10 you'll start the first mission as a senior initiate. Quicker promotions will mean you get the higher level recruits as soon as they are scripted to appear in the pool. Plus there are other traders than the QMs, not everyone wants to play the most efficient character. Charisma 10 with tagged barter and you will start beating Stitch on prices.

WVr said:
What you will say now, i am curious. :)
I say do what? Split your text up a little please. :P Perks aren't the be all and end all, in a normal game divine favour will give you a +1 stat bonus and an extra perk, that's not much for two stat points that could be spent else where, like perception. Likewise extra skill points aren't that great if you have to spend more to get the same results.

WVr said:
I think i should said that my not-a-guide is about better end-game sniping, not simply about "better sniping". Should i edit it in appropriate manner?
But most builds are fairly useless at the start, that's a given.

WVr said:
Also, whacky question about divine favor: what will happen if, say, character would have 8 per, 8 cha, 8 int, 8 agi, 8 luck at lvl 14 - and will get a Divine Favor? 5 stats are "highest" for such a character, so, which one will be raised by +1? Could it be that *all* 5 will?
The first equal high stat, working down from strength, will get the favour so in your example perception will get the +1.

WVr said:
I have basic skills with hex and am PC-friendly in general, yet (at least for now) digging into debts of FoT for modelling and testing this situation properly is kind too complicated to do in short amount of time. Playing to 14th level fairly to find out is way too long.
[Moderator hat on]Please do not use coloured text, it's annoying and hard to read. [/Moderator hat off] Use the official tools, if you've been able to patch the game us the entity editor in FT Tools to create a new character. Then you can level them up (honestly) in the editor to see what perks and bonuses different builds can get.

WVr said:
So, NOW, may be, some recruit should take it, help with it through the storyline, and quit the squad to be replaced with Clarisse. What do you say?
If my character has the requirements I'll take the perk it's the only in mission benefit from having a high charisma, though there are other recruits with charisma 6 who can take the perk also.

WVr said:
Please explain. I give up. :oops:

WVr said:
Well, as far as i know, optimum range for a sniper is "as far as possible".
Yes there is an optimum range in the game. The maximum range of the sniper rifle is 50m, 33 tiles, just slightly longer than the screen size (at 1024x768) from the bottom left corner to top right corner. But that's the maximum range, you then have to take into account your chance to hit. Which is your weapon skill - the armour class of your opponent - the range modifier. The higher your perception the less range modifiers affect your chance to hit, though you will never get better than a 95% chance to hit. But to get a 95% chance to hit you won't be anywhere near the maximum distance away. This also goes to why agility is important, I'm not saying that you have to go 10 agility, 8 is normally sufficient but with a higher guns skill you have a higher chance to hit.

Also if you go divine favour with agility instead of intelligence then you don't need the action boy perk (perhaps raise your perception instead), and you won't need so many skill points as you won't have to spend so many skill points to raise your small guns skill to a reasonable level.

WVr said:
From this point, my better damage will be clear benefit in terms of attack power.
Attack power isn't everything, this was my favourite sniper character build (with gifted) in a normal game.

Strength 5
Perception 10
Endurance 4
Charisma 6
Intelligence 6
Agility 10
Luck 6

With finesse and tagged small guns, energy weapons and doctor.

10 perception means you need to spend less points in small guns for the same results, plus you'll get an earlier place in the sequence. I'll do less damage, but even without the extra levels of 'more criticals' I'll still have a higher critical chance. I don't need action boy so I can always take the two levels of bonus ranged damage or gain intelligence if I'm hurting for skill points. Though I won't really need any in small guns, 3 books will take me up to 100%, at 100% small guns skill while you'll have a 48% chance at hitting the torso I'll have a 52% chance of hitting the eyes.

WVr said:
It seems that it's not that useless... Correction: was not so useless. I'm confused. :roll:
I never said it was totally useless, but for a luck 6 character it's not that useful either.

WVr said:
It is very doubtful that he made lvl 3 - thus most likely no Brown Noser.
See above he's charisma 10.

WVr said:
(and BTW, no side effects with enduance 2 :P ).
Gee did you get addicted? Did I say you'd get an addiction every time you used a drug?
 
Yes, the guy with rank 3 after 1st mission was the cha=10. I made it through mission one in last difficulty mode anyways, tho. More about it later.

Report and answering your last post will be later, as well. I took your advice and went to see what these tools are. Never knew there are there. For about two hours already i tried various setups with Sniper perk. Will have interesting piece or two of info. For now, very-very initially, it seems to me that Sniper is PARTIALLY functional: i clearly noticed that there are WAY less criticals in CTB mode (in compare to TB modes). Perhaps, that is why some say it's completely broken, while others say it somewhat works. I'll do more tests and will report.

Also got an idea of a sort. It's about mutating (via perk) for a main character, and not *to* gifted, but FROM gifted to something else, namely to Kamikaze; and perhaps it's about lvl 19 (or 18 if no divine favor) to do it - power armor times. Another trait will be Finesse. Benefits:

+1) If no sniper (by the way), already with divine favor if required, already with Faster Rate of Fire, so no or few higher-stat-requiring perks to take after 18! More freedom for stat setup of non-gifted (eventually) character. Which is good.

+2) Perfect strength values through the game: 5 with gifted for start and mid-game, then PA for a rather short period of str=7 (which is an over-kill of 1 "wasted" str for an end-game sniper), then mutate from gifted to Kamikaze - and strength gotta be 6. Exactly what we need to hold a plazma rifle. And no problems handling str=5 guns before PA.

+3) ALL SKILS get +10% and then suffers minor losses from -1 to all stats, basicly. But in fact, there is hidden benefit *this* way! Let me show it with an easy example. Say, we tagged energy guns at start, we had 10 agi at the start (for easier numbers), and we want 200% in energy guns end-game. Now, let's estimate, how much skill points we going to spend into tagged Energy Guns up to 200, with different approaches:

3.1. Plain and simple: no gifted, ever. Then: Start value = 40%. Skillpoint investment for 200% result: 30+26+36+52+60=204 skill points.

3.2. Plain and simple: gifted @start, forever. Then: start value = 30%, 10+204=209 skill points.

3.3. Tricky mutation: Gifted->anything @lvl 18 (or higher if desired): start value = 30%. To get 200% wee need to invest skillpoints up to 192% and then mutation will add 8% more (+10% cause no more Gifted penaly, then -2% due to -1 agility), for the result of 200%. Skillpoints investment: 209-20=189.
As reader can see, third way (3.3) is most economical (saves 15 or 20 skillpoints).

Side note: One may object to this: but Gifted means, effectively, -3 skillpoints-per-level penalty, so 17 level-ups (1->18 lvl) will result in -51 skillpoints loss! But this objection is a fake, because it's very different things: available amount of skillpoints to disctribute, total, when character earned certain level (lvl 18, for example) - and required amount of skillpoints to raise certain skill to certain level. I can easily negate that -51 skill points with doing Strength=4, Endurance=3 base setup: Gifted will keep them at desired values (5 and 4) until i need it, and even a bit longer. Reason: I will get PA for a strength boost, and Elixir of Life for a boost of Endurance. I can, if i want, put those 2 "saved" points into Intelligence to have +68 more skill points @lvl 18, and this is more than that -51 "fake-penalty". Only case when it's not so is when non-gifted (ever) character do have 8 or higher Intelligence. But with that high Intelligence, with required for key perks luck, agility and perception - some serious stat-point shortages will arise. Let's see for a approx.minimum s.p.e.c.i.a.l. for such a character: 5.7.2.1.8.8.6. = 37 points. Only 3 spare stat-points, owful Charisma, barely enough perception. And absolutely no possibility to do leader-sniper character. So, these 21+ skillpoint-per-level non-gifted guys would be considered "offtopic" in this thread. =) On the other hand, *nothing* will change the fact that i will save 15 to 20 skillpoints with described mutation with a single tagged 175+ skill at lvl 18.
To conclude this part, i'll notice that depends on Intelligence value and chosen tagged skills, i may have second tagged skill rather high already at lvl 18 *as well*, and for that skill same mechanics will allow me to "save" about a dozen or even more skill points as well. Argh, that "side-note" was deep, wasn't it? :)

+4. Kamikaze is about -10 (or -8 for Agi=8 character) AC. This effect is waaaay least hurting while player already have power armor: solid percent- and direct-damage_reduction of an armor, solid AC of armor itself and increased ranges of sniping at higher levels makes this negative effect times less noticeable.

+5. Finesse gives +10% crit chance. That is good. -25% damage is bad. With Kamikaze, nothing bad remains: damage penalty negated, extra +10% crit chance remained. Now that is good to see. :) Surely, -1 to luck from that mutation will drop crit chance by 1%... One can do things to negate it: D.F. perk and luck being highest stat = +1 luck, or simple +gain luck next perk, if so desired.

Now, drawbacks of this mutation:

-1. Need for perk, thus 1 less perks for anything else.

-2. -1 all stats after mutation. As said above, strength and endurance in fact do *benefit* from this, - we don't really need them as high as before after we get PA, - other stats behave differently. In s.p.e.c.i.a.l. order, let's see:
-2.p. Perception. -1 perception is a punch. Two ways to go: if we won't get D.F. perk - then just get 1 point from Charisma and drop it to perception. Or, perhaps, two points, if you want. And if we are going to get D.F. (second way), then we need Charisma=8. Then, we can have our perception boosted by D.F. to compensate that mutation. But for this perception should be equal-or-higher than other stats. And this means per=8, cha=8, int=7-or-8, luck=7-or-8. Totally doable, no problems. At lvl 18 and later our gun skill is high enough to provide fine sniping skills with 8 perception, i am sure. Tested myself with various characters. :) So, no major problem here, - can be worked out.
-2.c. Charisma. Well, in fact, not a drawback at all: many missions are done. Rank benefitted from cha=8 for many times already. If we were to take D.F perk - we already got it. Charisma 8->7? No problem.
-2.i. Intelligence. -2 skill points per level - not a problem, since without Gifted it will be beaten up with no more -5 penalty there. Some skills with Int in base will drop a bit - but again, it will be overwhelmed by "turning off" Gifted's penalty to skills. So, no problem here.
-2.a. Agility. Well, with 8 (or 10) of it with Gifted @start, we can afford to drop it as long as we have one recruit in squad with Leader perk. He/she could be a sniper too, perhaps, and then there will be no problems with having that recruit always near the main character. Again, no major problems.
-2.l. Luck. Well, just to be able to pick these "critical" perks after lvl 18, we will be sure to get our luck not lower than 7 (with Gifted included) at the start. And we got enough points to do it.

-3. No possibility to use mutation perk for something else, since there is only one. It may or may not be a drawback, - depends on whether player had other plans for Mutate! perk.

Conclusion: in the various places of the game, we can get, without using any Gain perks, +2 strength (PA), +1 endurance (Elixir of Life in special encounter), +1 agility in-field (Leader perk of recruit), and perhaps even +1 highest stat (perception, for example. This one is about if we will get D.F. perk). If we start with Gifted, and plan things ahead, then we can use these gains kinda "instead" of Gifted trait with mutation at lvl 18 or later; properly placed point or two where they are required while having this mutation in mind @start, and we could get better overall result. Especially with that "+3." (third) benefit - spending, actually, less skill pooints to get skills to the planned point.

One should use following "starting a character" s.p.e.c.i.a.l. configurations, to benefit with sniper-leader *with* that mutation (pick any variation you like most or make your own, - if you took the effort and understod my thoughts above, then you can make it properly, i hope):
5.8.2.8.8.8.8 (supposing D.F. -> perception); or
5.10.4.6.7.8.7; or
5.8.4.8.7.8.7 (again, D.F. -> perception for this one);
5.9.2.6.10.8.7;
5.9.2.6.7.8.10.

And that's it for this idea about Mutation. Duh... Is it effective? Well, with Charisma = 6 at start - quite viable, i'd go for it. With Cha = 8 and eventually D.F. perk - even more viable. And there is absolutely tight, only one starting stat configuration to do this mutation, D.F., and Sniper perk altogether without any major failures: 5.9.2.8.7.9.7. If Sniper will be proven to be not so usefull, then it's better without it: this Agi=8 requirement is a pain, cause most economical at lvl 24 would be to have 7 Agi, Clarisse and 1 rank of Action boy...


To be continued.

edit:
Now, as promised on top, rest of info:

I made through mission 1 in 4th difficulty mode (highest). I had to use more than half available stimpacks, waste 1 first-aid kit, lots of ammo due to lowered percentages of to-hit, and i had to use load'n'save quite intensively in main fight - Torus was able to 1-hit kill my Stitch with about 40% probability. I made the mission as same as in normal mode as possible. So, after it, rank was 2 again, with mentat too. Conclusion: to get rank 3 after 1st mission one should get Charisma = 10 (and/or, who knows, kill more of even more of the foes with MAIN character?). Difficulty mode seems to have no or, perhaps, little effect on rank. That's it.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
I wouldn't know I never normally read them. I only read this because you asked me to. But your guide comes across as being written by someone who's not played the game. And that has nothing to do with being a foreigner. If you had loads of questions you should of asked them and then written the guide.
I see. Well, can't say i read them - but i *use* them. I have some searching skills, so instead of reading whole texts i search what i need, and then get only that plus minimal required for understanding nearby info. And that is enough to tell you: no, there are not many *thouroughly* tested guides around. In fact, such a guide is quite rare. But enough about that. Thanks you've read mine, aye. I'm giving you a lot of work as you're also a moderator here, hehe... Well, i am a poster in forum's terms, so i will post. Now, one of your statements is incorrect: i played the game before, and not that little: once through, second time - stopped before going to Newton. I just decided to go higher than 2 Charisma, cause two previous tries were not about it. I asked questions where they arised, and i named the thread appropriatly. Will it do, or i should create different topics - one for a questions, another for discussion, third for a guide part? I will do as you say in future, and if required, will re-work this topic and make 1 or two more topics, moving questions and discussion there. What do you say?

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
I compared prices to a normal Stitch and a pimped Stitch, the difference was negligible. Stitch usually got better prices in the early game either way. In the latter part of the game money or barter items become worthless anyway. I've also played through without going to the QM until leaving for Cheyenne Mountain. After buying everyone PA and a spare suit of tesla armour, more rockets, grenades and ammo than 6 people could carry I still had 682363 bos scrip left over.
I see. Worthless @end-game - i had that in mind too... In fact, that is most serious flaw of Barter in my way of seeing things: minimum usefulness at end-game. Duh... Ok. "Exotic alternative" it'll be, then.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
If you want to quote me, do so but don't edit me.
Got it; will do. Sheesh, i just asked, sir. Please don't be angry. It won't happen again in any form.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
A single radx won't do a lot for a endurance 2 character, and I thought this guide wasn't going to have exploits?
A single radX will increase resistance to radiation far more than +2 endurance. Far more. And as i said in first post, it's a tank to collect loot, not main character - so most radiated places, if required, won't be visited by main. Exploits?? Sir, i thought load-and-save is not a one. Since tough guy mode designed to reward additional in-game experience for not being able to save while not in bunker - it's just logical to consider load-and-save quite legal feature of the game, having nothing to do with "exploiting"... Am i wrong somewhere? :oops:

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
There's no mission I can remember where you can get poisoned after getting PA, but then you've got to stay alive long enough to get PA.
You can get poisoned after getting PA via getting random encounters with poisonous foes. In practice, they die before having a chance, aye, but if one want to get poisoned in PA - "it can be arranged". :) As for surviving before PA - well, being not in front and having some antidotes is enough for me. Really not a problem at all for a main character - player gotta "cover" her (or him) with more healthy character(s) anyways due to low health. BTW, did you even notice that endurance affect only one starting skill - outdoorsman, - and even for it, there is another stat boosting it? Taking points from endurace hurts the skills in least possible amount. Any other stat will affect skills more. Hehe.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Charisma affects the promotion rate, with a charisma of 6 or higher you'll get promoted after the first mission, but with a charisma of 10 you'll start the first mission as a senior initiate. Quicker promotions will mean you get the higher level recruits as soon as they are scripted to appear in the pool. Plus there are other traders than the QMs, not everyone wants to play the most efficient character. Charisma 10 with tagged barter and you will start beating Stitch on prices.
I see. Very minor benefits, to my eye: if charisma=6 leader can get Clarisse, then Charisma=8 leader will have little (or no) problems in getting recruits as soon as they are "scripted in". For Cha=10: +1 rank at start and a bit faster (perhaps) rank raising in compare to Charisma=8. Next, agree, there are people who play not-most-efficient or even "strange" character - for sport and fun. Let's let them be own their own. Other traders being a reason to give Cha=10 to main? For me, - no. For me, other traders may be a reason to devote Sharon to Barter fully (she'll have Cha=10 at lvl 14 with Gifted and Divine Favor), - that is IF i'd want slightly better prices outside the bunker THAT much (and more routine clicking and some additional travelling for doing trades not with main character, but with non-combat recruit). Sharon will do for it, but not a main who is Charisma=8 on his own. For me, +2 int if MUCH more useful than +2 Charisma - when both are high enough to meet basic required values already.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Perks aren't the be all and end all, in a normal game divine favour will give you a +1 stat bonus and an extra perk, that's not much for two stat points that could be spent else where, like perception. Likewise extra skill points aren't that great if you have to spend more to get the same results.
Or, simplier: divine favor is stat+perk@lvl14 *vs* stat+stat@start trade. So, it's to have 1 "less" usefull stat *vs* having 1 more *any* perk in the *normal* game. Well, for a sniper ranged damage and ranged crits is main thing - and i say that perks for both are abundant and MUCH more effective that a single stat. Sharpshooter works like +TWO to perception, more_criticals works like +FIVE to luck, More Ranged Damage perk provide more damage - and NO amount of stats, AFAIK, will boost your ranged damage *anyhow*. So, if i will be asked to choose between 1 stat and 1 perk for a sniper - i surely will take a perk. On top of all, those "useless" +2 to starting Charisma (fvrom 6 to 8) not only allow me to *perform* that exchange - to get 1 more perk for a price of 1 less "usefull" stat at start, but also ARE +2 to charisma. They may be of little use themselves, they they still work through the game - faster rank growing, i suppose, better prices outside bunkers (i am too lazy to go into bunker to get best trader there and then return to the place to perform a barter - and then go back to the bunker to drop my Bartering recruit back to the pool; on the other hand, i do not want to see in my fighting squad a bertering character, if he's (she's) not main one: Stitch have relatively low perception (and all "combat" stats rather low - he's not a good fighter, at all, in fact), if he will tag barter and invest there - he's poor or even bad fighter; Sharon have too few skillpoints to be a trader AND good fighter; only my main can get enough to be a trader AND good fighter, especially with the fact that she can afford to get some good trading skills first while "waiting" for books (and later energy guns) to kick in). That is my opinion, sir. Is it any rational to your ear, i wonder. :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
But most builds are fairly useless at the start, that's a given.
I agree. No edit, then.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
The first equal high stat, working down from strength, will get the favour so in your example perception will get the +1.
Very usefull to know. Thank you! If i will go deep enough to start precise skill-spends at each level and up to "planned maximum" level, i'll keep that in mind. You see, as you already shown (and i agreed/understood), barter can't be amongst "recommended" tagged skills for main char. And barter is rather skillpoint-hungry skill. Without it in list, we may go away with less Int. While 1 less (Int @start) still means +1 int with Divine favor, 2 less means getting 8->9 perception. It's not most effective way most probably, but usefull to know. I'd rather prefer getting 8 (or 7) int, 7 (or 8) Agi, and 9 luck at start: it will be perfect 10 luck with Divine Favor then. And even you will agree that it will be a char for Sniper perk, then. :) To remind basic stat plan at start, Gifted included: s.p.e.c.i.a.l. = 5.8.2.8.10.8.6. I know what you're going to say: 7 agi? Nonsense! Well, a bit extreme way to get 10AP without second action boy perk is to get Leader perk affecting main character, nothing more.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Please do not use coloured text, it's annoying and hard to read
Will do. I used it in hope to make reading easier. I failed. Won't use it anymore.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Use the official tools, if you've been able to patch the game us the entity editor in FT Tools to create a new character. Then you can level them up (honestly) in the editor to see what perks and bonuses different builds can get.
Shame on me. Truth they say: you never know if you do not try. Didn't look what tools are there, didn't know it's possible. Thank you once again, sir. :thumb_up:

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
If my character has the requirements I'll take the perk it's the only in mission benefit from having a high charisma, though there are other recruits with charisma 6 who can take the perk also.
I see. Well, if we play perfect end-game effectiveness, then it's to *not* get the perk with main, - Clarisse have it "for free", and there are few recruits early who can provide it through the story like. (1st reason). 2nd reason would be minor: +1 "free" agility to main character through the game. Rather hillarious: i wrote a "guide", recommended to get Leader perk, only to find now that it's not effective to take it. Argh. :) Even more hillarious, i still hold onto 6+ Charisma (perfect goal: being able to get Clarisse :P), i still think that 8 Charisma is more effective than 6 (faster ranks, Divine Favor, and no urgent need in other stats). Ok, you know, i better re-construct whole stat section after all you told me. Thanks again. And - damn, lot of work to re-do. But i started it myself, i know. Ok, no more whining. :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
I never said it was totally useless, but for a luck 6 character it's not that useful either.
I see. Then, if that idea of mine - about Mutate! perk - won't be proven effective enough (i doubt that, tho), *or* for some reason i would like to get Sniper that badly - i'll go with luck=10, Charisma=6, and rest stats being similar. Into the "to think about" list...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Gee did you get addicted? Did I say you'd get an addiction every time you used a drug?
Err, perhaps it's my bad English. No, i meant quite the opposite: against all my fears after your words, single mentat did not make me addicted. Even more, for now, i can say for sure that with Endurance = 2 chance to get addicted to the 1st and single Mentat, no matter the difficulty mode, is rather low. This is because i saved the game before talking with recruit master after 1st mission for both normal and "crazy" difficulty modes, and made a comparison of available recruits. While doing it, i loaded both gamesaves twice (each), and each time i tried to get addicted (well, for the good of the science, ofc, nothing more :D ), eating that single mentat (found one in both games). So, from a total of 5 tries, - ZERO addictions. Z-e-r-o. Perhaps luck have something to do with it, or i am too silly, lucky and optimistic myself. Anyways, i'll get more mentats later with this character, and then we'll see how bad with chemicals such a character be. :)
 
WVr said:
3.3. Tricky mutation: Gifted->anything @lvl 18 (or higher if desired): start value = 30%. To get 200% wee need to invest skillpoints up to 192% and then mutation will add 8% more (+10% cause no more Gifted penaly, then -2% due to -1 agility), for the result of 200%. Skillpoints investment: 209-20=189.
As reader can see, third way (3.3) is most economical (saves 15 or 20 skillpoints).
There's no real benefit to this except having the finesse/kamikaze combo and some perks you might not normally get without gifted, two snipers one with perception & agility 10/10 the other 8/8 aiming at the same target from the same distance and a clear line of sight, the 8/8 sniper will need a skill of 162% to equal the chance to hit of the 10/10 sniper with 150% energy weapons. Or to put it another way, sniper 10/10 with 192% aiming at an opponent 25 tiles away will have a hit chance of 88%. After mutating the EW skill will jump to 200% but the chance to hit will remain at 88%. This is even more doubtful if you consider for a 10/10 character there's no benefit in raising from 192% to a mere 200%, the chance to hit will not change. For the character you posted initially this is even worse, an 8/8 sniper with 11 intelligence (energy weapons tagged instead of barter) will get a 70% chance to hit in the above mentioned scenario, after mutating that will drop to a 63% chance to hit. Even if a recruit with leader is positioned next to the main character the chance to hit only climbs back up to 65%. Though if you did spend the skill points to get 200% rather than mutating you'd have a 78% chance to hit.

Which ever way you look at it mutating isn't an economical way of raising combat skills.

WVr said:
I asked questions where they arised, and i named the thread appropriatly. Will it do, or i should create different topics - one for a questions, another for discussion, third for a guide part? I will do as you say in future, and if required, will re-work this topic and make 1 or two more topics, moving questions and discussion there. What do you say?
Just write the guide offline, do your research, ask as many questions as you like but wait for the answers before publishing the guide. It just doesn't inspire much confidence in a guide when you read things like 'I read somewhere but don't know if it's true or not' through out the guide.

WVr said:
Exploits?? Sir, i thought load-and-save is not a one. Since tough guy mode designed to reward additional in-game experience for not being able to save while not in bunker - it's just logical to consider load-and-save quite legal feature of the game, having nothing to do with "exploiting"... Am i wrong somewhere? :oops:
Save fail load has to be one of the most recognised exploits in gaming, and has ignited many a discussion over allowing saving in a game or not.

WVr said:
That is my opinion, sir. Is it any rational to your ear, i wonder. :)
Perks mean little to me, I prefer a character that isn't reliant on them. With the character I posted, if I was to replay again I might take one hander over finesse but without divine favour I'll still get enough perks to be deadly.

WVr said:
Err, perhaps it's my bad English. No, i meant quite the opposite: against all my fears after your words, single mentat did not make me addicted. Even more, for now, i can say for sure that with Endurance = 2 chance to get addicted to the 1st and single Mentat, no matter the difficulty mode, is rather low. This is because i saved the game before talking with recruit master after 1st mission for both normal and "crazy" difficulty modes, and made a comparison of available recruits. While doing it, i loaded both gamesaves twice (each), and each time i tried to get addicted (well, for the good of the science, ofc, nothing more :D ), eating that single mentat (found one in both games). So, from a total of 5 tries, - ZERO addictions. Z-e-r-o. Perhaps luck have something to do with it, or i am too silly, lucky and optimistic myself. Anyways, i'll get more mentats later with this character, and then we'll see how bad with chemicals such a character be. :)
Mentats do have a low addiction value though.

Fusion Cola 100
AfterBurner 50
Buffout 25
Psycho 20
Voodoo 20
Mentats 15
Mutie 10
Radaway 10
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
There's no real benefit to this except having the finesse/kamikaze combo and some perks you might not normally get without gifted,
This one in not the only benefit, as shown above (and not objected by you), there are few more, like doing good with strength, for example.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
two snipers one with perception & agility 10/10 the other 8/8 aiming at the same target from the same distance and a clear line of sight, the 8/8 sniper will need a skill of 162% to equal the chance to hit of the 10/10 sniper with 150% energy weapons.
Well, that most likely highly variable. I made some tests myself, using ent editor. I took two recruits, made one 8/8 and 162% skill, other 10/10 and 150% skill, put them at *exactly* the same distance from a stationary target (which was my main character), line of sight was perfectly clear for both, they had same weapon; so, I took a look at percentages using Ctrl key hold down. According to *your* statement, they should have same chance to hit. But in my test, they did not: 10/10 had 91% chance to hit (to remind, @ skill = 150%), 8/8 had 71% chance to hit (yes, with exactly 162% skill). But that was without Sharpshooter perk, so, most likely, your numbers are about with it. I took my time, went to editor again, and gave both snipers a sharpshooter perk. Then i took them at exactly same places. To my pleasure, they indeed both had 91% chance to hit then. But, in case you didn't mentioned *yet*, 10/10 sniper in my test did NOT get any single % benefit from sharpshooter perk! His chance to hit is 91% with or without Sharpshooter! So, i have a question:

According to my test, Sharpshooter perk gives *nothing* to a perception=10 character. Is it so?

Ofcourse, i could do something wrong. But personally, i can't see where i could make a mistake. I checked everything twice, including skills and perks in-game just ot be save. There seem to be no mistake. So, please do some tests about this (Sharpshooter for Per=10) on your own and then confirm my results, *if* they are solid, that is.

If they are solid, then is it worth to get 10 perception at the start? Can it be better to put 2 stat points alsewhere, cause Sharpshooter will work for Perception=8 character, but not for perception 10 character? Well, many people would say "no, we better with perception 10 and no need to spend a perk". I will say, tho, that it's not an easy question. Perhaps, in certain situation, for a certain character... Dunno.


requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Or to put it another way, sniper 10/10 with 192% aiming at an opponent 25 tiles away will have a hit chance of 88%. After mutating the EW skill will jump to 200% but the chance to hit will remain at 88%.
Skill will raise, but chane to hit will remain the same? I do not understand "why". Sorry. Perhaps i am not good enough for such a details...



requiem_for_a_starfury said:
This is even more doubtful if you consider for a 10/10 character there's no benefit in raising from 192% to a mere 200%, the chance to hit will not change. For the character you posted initially this is even worse, an 8/8 sniper with 11 intelligence (energy weapons tagged instead of barter) will get a 70% chance to hit in the above mentioned scenario, after mutating that will drop to a 63% chance to hit. Even if a recruit with leader is positioned next to the main character the chance to hit only climbs back up to 65%. Though if you did spend the skill points to get 200% rather than mutating you'd have a 78% chance to hit.
Once again, i do not understand why +8% via skillpoints works, while +8% from that mutation do not works. Only weakiest assumption that i can make is that game do not calculate hit chance "on the fly" based on current gun skill value, but instead changes some *hidden* value at each skill-up; this hidden value then is used as a base for calculating hit_chance. If this is the case... Or anything like that... Then yes, ofcourse, that mutation becomes way less viable or, perhaps, even harms the character.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Which ever way you look at it mutating isn't an economical way of raising combat skills.
May be. Except, as you can see above, certain ways that you describe as erratic. Too sad i am a noop of a sort here. :(


requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Just write the guide offline, do your research, ask as many questions as you like but wait for the answers before publishing the guide. It just doesn't inspire much confidence in a guide when you read things like 'I read somewhere but don't know if it's true or not' through out the guide.
I see. Then, sir, if you would like to see that guide deleted, or perhaps whole thread deleted or moved into archive or anything else - well, i won't object a word. And thanks for the lesson, seriously. My gratitude, sir.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Save fail load has to be one of the most recognised exploits in gaming, and has ignited many a discussion over allowing saving in a game or not.
Well, my copy of FoT is very stable with that. I do not remember any single case when i couldn't load a game. And generally, only *really* bugged games have such a problem for me: i use up-to-date antivirus, firewall, registry's cleaner, i care for my OS system doing backups regularly and restoring the system if any problem occured. This way i have LOTS more programs working fine - while other people (friends of mine, mostly) report same programs malfunctioning in their systems. So... Well, you see the point. Just one more interesting note: in 2007th about 200.000 viruses were written in the world, as far as i can tell from the reports of various anti-virus companies. Viruses and other malware become of a faster-and-faster growing problem nowadays. I hope few previous sentences are not of complete offtopic, cause noone can play good sniper-leader in FoT, if his computer is infected *too* badly.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Mentats do have a low addiction value though.

Fusion Cola 100
AfterBurner 50
Buffout 25
Psycho 20
Voodoo 20
Mentats 15
Mutie 10
Radaway 10
Good to know exact values. Thank you, this can be usefull to many.


Oh Requiem. My confidence in my ability to plan a character which is effective for many people to use went down too low. Perhaps i need to play FoT more with different characters, and/or read more. But for now, i can't take your beating anymore, and so i give up trying to arrange that guide.

Please decide the fate of the thread as you see fit. Anything won't be objected by me, even full deleting is ok with me. I, generally, failed for now.

Please, take my gratefullness for your time, and ofcourse, my permission to do anything with texts i wrote, if you would desire to use them in any way. This includes cutting and editing them in any way you'd want.

Once again, i give up this try. From now on, i will do silently. If any FoT guide will ever be completed off-line, then for sure i'll drop it into this board, already completed, tested and prooved *thouroughly*. Until then, then.

Remaining the reader of this board, and FoT player,

WVr.
 
WVr said:
This one in not the only benefit, as shown above (and not objected by you), there are few more, like doing good with strength, for example.
Are those really worth the stat drops? If it's just a matter of an extra 10% then team player would seem to be a better choice than mutating gifted away. Especially if you are going to be keeping a recruit near the main player with the leader perk.

WVr said:
Well, that most likely highly variable. I made some tests myself, using ent editor. I took two recruits, made one 8/8 and 162% skill, other 10/10 and 150% skill, put them at *exactly* the same distance from a stationary target (which was my main character), line of sight was perfectly clear for both, they had same weapon; so, I took a look at percentages using Ctrl key hold down. According to *your* statement, they should have same chance to hit. But in my test, they did not: 10/10 had 91% chance to hit (to remind, @ skill = 150%), 8/8 had 71% chance to hit (yes, with exactly 162% skill). But that was without Sharpshooter perk, so, most likely, your numbers are about with it. I took my time, went to editor again, and gave both snipers a sharpshooter perk. Then i took them at exactly same places. To my pleasure, they indeed both had 91% chance to hit then. But, in case you didn't mentioned *yet*, 10/10 sniper in my test did NOT get any single % benefit from sharpshooter perk! His chance to hit is 91% with or without Sharpshooter! So, i have a question:

According to my test, Sharpshooter perk gives *nothing* to a perception=10 character. Is it so?
Sorry my error, that was a typo it should of read 182% not 162% and sharpshooter does work with a perception of 10. 100% in small guns, sniper rifle at 25 tiles, the chance to hit was 56%. With sharpshooter it went up to 75%.

WVr said:
Skill will raise, but chane to hit will remain the same? I do not understand "why". Sorry. Perhaps i am not good enough for such a details...
There's two factors at work here. Higher perception offsets the range penalties which are taken away from your skill. And the higher your skill, you get less of a return for the points spent.

You can go at it either way, really high skill and lower perception or really high perception and lower skill. But after about 180% there's a sharp drop off of how much you are affecting chance to hit. In a test, with perception 10, the difference between 100% - 180% small gun skill raised the hit chance from 3% to 50% at a target 30 tiles away. But 180% to 220% only raised it by a further 5%.

With the same target, 25 tiles away (armour class of 20 btw) 100% small guns went down from 56% to hit with perception 10.

perception - chance to hit
10 - 56%
9 - 36%
8 - 16%
7 - 0%

So presumably with the perception 10 character the difference between 192% and 200% just wasn't great enough to make a difference but was probably enough to negate the drop to perception 9.

WVr said:
Once again, i do not understand why +8% via skillpoints works, while +8% from that mutation do not works.
For the lower perception character the drop between perception 8 and 7 is a killer and there's too many penalties for 8% to make a difference but normally raising the skill works because perception 8 has less penalties.

WVr said:
I see. Then, sir, if you would like to see that guide deleted, or perhaps whole thread deleted or moved into archive or anything else - well, i won't object a word. And thanks for the lesson, seriously. My gratitude, sir.
No need to be so drastic I'm sure if there's anyone still playing FOT they will find this of value.
 
About mutation: while single small benefit won't be enough to compensate stat drops at the start - several small benefits in sum may be. Ability to take perks which are not available otherwise + smooth strength and endurance progress through the game (no "overkill", no "sacrifice"), + no -10% all skills penalty after lvl 18 (19 if, by any chance, with divine favor). But yes, your data about skills and importance of perception (which going to get -1 with mutation) prooves to be major punch to my idea. In any case, this mutation won't be "oh so useful", and, perhaps, could only take its place together with barter-for-main in "exotic ways" section...

Most interesting to hear about your success with sharpshooter + perception=10 character. This means that my test is invalid somewhere. I checked my own part (made everything once again), and once again i found everything being done correctly. And opce again, character with perception=10 had the same chance to hit a target (AC=23 for a target, BTW), no matter sharpshooter or not. This means that somehow game just don't want to "apply" the perc (sharpshooter) for this character in any way than putting the appropriate string into "taken perks" part of a character screen. I'll have to do more tests, - 1st i'll try per=10+sharpshooter for other characters, and in no success - i'll do character edit in different ways.

I also made some more Sniper perk testing. I can't say for sure what is the matter (real bug/glitch ofthe game or my (yet) weak FoT-testing skills), but there is a fact - without sniper, i see practically same percentages of crits with same character in both TB and CTB modes; but *with* sniper perk, in TB mode percentage of criticals raise up significantly (luck=10), while in CTB - does NOT! This may or may not have something with ways i do tests. I can't be sure (after sharpshooter thing) that my tests are correct, but at least i *am* sure that Sniper perk was indeed working (because there was clear increase in crit chances in TB mode. BTW, "luck roll" is NOT a roll "out of 10". I can't tell for sure what the "roll" is, but playing Sniper perk with various perks/traits which increase critical chance - i've got an impression that "luck roll" is nothing more than "second crit check", i.e. - if "normal" crit chance didn't trigger, "chance-to-hit" check went fine, and hit gonna happen - *THEN* Sniper perk kicks in for "second" crit roll, using *current* crit percentage of a character. It's still to do some more tests playing with Voodoo drug to get 40+ crit chance to check this out more). And above that - i did not test CTB mode that much, as personally i'm not interested much in CTB mode while playing. I use it for easy fights only (weak random encounters, etc), and easy fights *are* easy no matter how particular perk behave. I noticed the difference only because it's faster to do series of shots in CTB mode - to write down damage/crits series data. And these series are required to get "true" data about practical crit percentages.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
In a test, with perception 10, the difference between 100% - 180% small gun skill raised the hit chance from 3% to 50% at a target 30 tiles away. But 180% to 220% only raised it by a further 5%.
Now THAT is most interesting. I always thought that gun skill adds to chance-to-hit are LINEAR in all the possible skill-range. Your data prooves that i was wrong. Once again, most interesting. Thanks for sharing this.

And about being drastic: well, i suppose it's not a good thing to post incorrect data. Yet, on the other hand, i agree with you when you say that this thread contain things of value. Even first post contain quite interesting compilation of data about leader-sniper character, and most of things there are correct, as far as i can tell, while some things are not coorect, but they are relatively few. So, in this situation, i won't remove incorrect statements from there - just to save the logics of further discussions. But i will do big, red string oin top of first post with warning about the fact that there are some incorrect and/or ineffective advices in the first post, and with recomendation to the reader to read all the discussion before making a character of this sort.

Perhaps that would be most appropriate, - at least i hope so.
 
WVr said:
Most interesting to hear about your success with sharpshooter + perception=10 character. This means that my test is invalid somewhere. I checked my own part (made everything once again), and once again i found everything being done correctly. And opce again, character with perception=10 had the same chance to hit a target (AC=23 for a target, BTW), no matter sharpshooter or not. This means that somehow game just don't want to "apply" the perc (sharpshooter) for this character in any way than putting the appropriate string into "taken perks" part of a character screen. I'll have to do more tests, - 1st i'll try per=10+sharpshooter for other characters, and in no success - i'll do character edit in different ways.
It's most likely your target is too close. In my test map the same targets at 20 tiles would have a 80% chance to hit with or without sharpshooter. Likewise at a closer range the difference between perception 10 and perception 9 becomes blurred.
 
I see. So, perception works to increase the range of effective fire, but it doesn't work to increase chance-to-hit if shooter is affected by certain chance-to-hit penalties (these would be higher AC, obstacles in line of sight (if any), and such). Right?

And with this in mind, importance of gun-skill become higher, if i got everything right: gun skill DO offset named penalties, as far as i know. So, there IS a difference between high-perception-low-skill and low-perception-high-skill snipers, after all! Well-well, now that is more and more interesting now. :)


About my test: i can't say for sure amount of tiles between sniper (10/10, 150% small guns, hunting rifle, difficulty=normal - this one was used to test with-and-without sharpshooter. and got in both cases 91% chance to hit) and target (AC23), but i can tell you where they were precisely enough. Target, being pre-defined character Mic, was at the end of that first bridge in the Brahmin woods. Very start of the game. He was still on the bridge, at the point where bridge is still full-wide. And sniper was about one "diagonal" screen from him, going "forward" from the bridge. If we continue the line of the bridge, this line will cross the wall eventually. Near that wall, as close to the wall as possible, was my sniper. In in-game "meters" terms, range was 30+ meters, i believe. I had to kill one enemy on the left of the bridge plus another enemy and his dog "ahead" of the bridge to take that position with my sniper and target. For every change of sniper-character i had to do it again (not that long though), as i put sniper-character to be among starting squad, so i started new game (with Mic as main character every time) after any change (another perk, skill value, etc). This way, at least, i ensure "same start" for everything but changing values, and i don't have to tinker with savedgames (should be more complicated process, and in fact i didn't even start yet to try and see if that's possible to do test via save-game tinkering). If that's not clear, i can provide a screenshot with characters's positions, - if you're interested, that is.

Edit: too sad "s" forum's tag doesn't work in this forum. Anyways, i'll try various colors or, perhaps, smaller font size to mark incorrect statements of the first post. I don't want to delete them, but i don't want any new reader to read useless text as well. I'll try to find a color(s) which is readable enough - i remember that i promised not to use colors anymore, but for this noble task i can't find better alternative. I'll add color legend into the "intro" as well to give the user clear understanding of simple thing: parts of certain color are erretical and are to be read only if reader extremely curious about this topic.
 
WVr said:
I see. So, perception works to increase the range of effective fire, but it doesn't work to increase chance-to-hit if shooter is affected by certain chance-to-hit penalties (these would be higher AC, obstacles in line of sight (if any), and such). Right?

And with this in mind, importance of gun-skill become higher, if i got everything right: gun skill DO offset named penalties, as far as i know. So, there IS a difference between high-perception-low-skill and low-perception-high-skill snipers, after all! Well-well, now that is more and more interesting now. :)
At a certain distance there's only going to be so many range penalties, so if at 20 tiles perception 9 has offset all the penalties then perception 10 - 12 isn't going to make any difference. It's skill minus armour class and range penalties so my skill was 100 and the target's ac was 20 giving a chance to hit of 80% with no other penalties. In this case you can then increase the chance to hit by increasing the skill points, but if you drop to perception 8 you are no longer neutralising all the penalties at that distance. High perception is always going to be preferable as maximum range is the sniper's advantage.

While I like playing a charismatic sniper healer it's not the best build, if we are talking efficiency.

For any ranged fighter perception and agility are going to be the two most important stats. Now other characters like CQB, heavy weapons or grenadiers, with their short ranged weapons, aren't going to be as concerned about perception because they'll need to be closer to their targets anyway and will have less range penalties to worry about but not the sniper. So for that reason perception is going to be your most important stat, even if it doesn't affect the skill points of your chosen skills. Now you could argue that since the scoped range of the sniper rifle also negates some ranged penalties that you can afford not to go with 10 perception for a sniper, but I'd say you'd be handicapping your rifle.

Now keeping that in mind looking at the skills you should pick complementary non combat skills. For the sniper choosing secondary combat skills isn't the most efficient build since none of the other weapons have the same range as the sniper rifle. Even energy weapons, while doing more damage don't take advantage of the sniper build.

All non combat skills, other than barter and gambling are affected in some form either by perception, intelligence or agility. Since perception is so important to a sniper we can divide the sniper into two groups, an intelligent sniper or an agile sniper.

If we go intelligent sniper then the obvious secondary skills are First Aid, Doctor, Science, Repair and Outdoorsman. Well we can strike Outdoorsman off straight away since it's not useful in mission and there and books and recruits who can take care of that function for you. Likewise Repair isn't that useful, it's better to avoid getting a vehicle damaged in the first place and the occurance of weapons getting damaged is fairly rare. So as you've pointed out there are combat bonuses to getting Doctor and Science and there's books for First Aid. So our sniper is going to double as a medic.

Now the real strength of the intelligent sniper is all the glorious skill points you are going to get, so it would be shooting yourself in the foot to take gifted, so our sniper-medic is going a skilled technician rather than a gifted wonder. Now without gifted we are going to be hurting for stat points, but that's the choice of paths in FOT stats or skill points.

Strength 5
Perception 10
Intelligence 10

For the other stats possibly;

Endurance 3
Charisma 1
Agility 5
Luck 6

Endurance can be boosted to a fair 4 with the elixir but it's a suprise right to see agility so low after what I've said previously? But again the choice is between stats and skill points, with an intelligence of 10 and the skilled trait you'll get a lovely 30 points per level, enough to raise your gun skill high enough to compensate for the low agility.

Now for the other trait, I'd recomend either small frame to boost your agility and action points or you can choose between criticals or damage with either finesse or kamikaze. Though given your luck is only above average and you're already doing bonus damage with living anatomy and science then I'd go with higher damage and kamikaze. Especially since the agility is so low and you won't be losing too much armour class.

Yes this character won't get many perks, divine favour or all the recruits early but you can't have everything.

The agile sniper has a choice of sneak, lockpick, steal, traps and pilot. I'd forget pilot, it really doesn't make that much difference to driving. Steal also doesn't get much use to justify it for the main character. So there's a choice between sneak, lockpick and traps. I'd go either sneak and lockpicks or sneak and traps. Sneak and lockpicks allows your sniper to roam the map looking for the best advantage points, sneak and traps is also useful for a scouting sniper. Lockpick and traps? Well, there's not that many trapped locked items.

Traits, well we want 10 agility, so gifted for sure and either finesse or one hander. Kamikaze is a bit of a waste of the extra armour class you'll get from the high agility.

Strength 5
Perception 10
Agility 10

Now since we've got so many more stat points to play with there's a big choice of how to divide the remaining stats.

Endurance 4
Charisma 6
Intelligence 6
Luck 6

For an all round character, but since the skills you've tagged aren't affected by intelligence you can really play around with this character.

Endurance 2
Charisma 6
Intelligence 4
Luck 10

Concentrating on getting criticals rather than doing more damage. I don't like taking a low endurance but with high agility and high luck you probably will not get hit as much anyway.

Well that's my take on snipers.

WVr said:
This way, at least, i ensure "same start" for everything but changing values, and i don't have to tinker with savedgames (should be more complicated process, and in fact i didn't even start yet to try and see if that's possible to do test via save-game tinkering). If that's not clear, i can provide a screenshot with characters's positions, - if you're interested, that is.
Why not try building a test map then you can position everyone where you want. I do most of my testing on a firing range map I built.
 
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
At a certain distance there's only going to be so many range penalties, so if at 20 tiles perception 9 has offset all the penalties then perception 10 - 12 isn't going to make any difference. It's skill minus armour class and range penalties so my skill was 100 and the target's ac was 20 giving a chance to hit of 80% with no other penalties. In this case you can then increase the chance to hit by increasing the skill points, but if you drop to perception 8 you are no longer neutralising all the penalties at that distance. High perception is always going to be preferable as maximum range is the sniper's advantage.
Yes. In fact, we were saying the same: perception increase range of effective fire (or, which is the same, - increase chance to hit at given distance as long as there are penalties for range, not negated with lower amount of Perception). But, weapon skill is capable to negate range penalties as well, yet WAY less effective with that. On the other hand, no amount of Perception will help with penalties which are not related to range - we both just saw it with our tests of Sharpshooter perk AND distance being not that big (far from maximum) AND lower than 95% chance-to-hit, ramaining the same no matter if sharpshooter or not. But skill obviously DO negate these penalties - AC, obstacles, enemy laying down (not standing). So, there are BOTH important in their own way: for example, highest perception shooter with not enough gun skill - will find himself having far-from-95% chance-to-hit against highly armored (high AC) targets, and/or targets who us obstacles (trees, for example), covers (sand bags), lower position and such. Conclusion: low perception can't be compensated (truly, in all aspects) by high skill (any high, e mean), and in the same time, - vice versa, low (relatively) gun-skill - can't be compensated (again, i mean - in all aspects) by highest perception. Good sniper need both to be high enough!

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
While I like playing a charismatic sniper healer it's not the best build, if we are talking efficiency.
I clearly disagree with that. No offense intended. Here is my main reason: main, and ONLY main character can benefit from high charisma in unique way - getting maximum rank, which means best recruits in-game and faster available recruits (and, - perhaps, - some better skills/traits/perks for recruits. Personally, i didn't tested this yet, but there are experienced people who say it's so, and they do not have any doubts about that). One can be any good with Int or Agility for a main character, - but hey, we have FIVE slots for creating very-effective Agility or Intelligence specialists. There are several recruits with agility=9, getting it to 10 (if one desire to do it) costs 1 perk - Leader. This perk is a must on his own - combat effect is worth it, it's not only +6AC (counting +1 agility) for most of the squad, - it's also +4% small guns and +2% energy guns for each user of those skills for most of the time! And for intelligence - there's Stitch with 9 of it. He's a Doctor and First aid tagged, and player can Tag him any other skill with perk if so desired. There are other recruits with high intelligence later in the game, as well.

That's why i came to a charismatic sniper concept. It's rather simple: you do have high charisma on main and get unique benefits from that (no other recruit can give these benefits), or you do not. If you choose not to go with high Charisma, then there's must be a reason to "sacrifice" these benefits. What could be such a reason, if 1) high-charisma main character *can* still be very good with sniping as well, and 2) there are many recruits available to do any job related to Agility or Intelligence - with close to maximum or even maximum efficiency? For me, answer is simple: there's NO such a reason. I played my low-charisma characters before just because i didn't know about these main-character-only benefits of high Charisma.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
For any ranged fighter perception and agility are going to be the two most important stats.
I tend to agree in perception part with you - now, after all the things we discussed. But agility being second-important for "any ranged character"? It may be that important for, say, big-gun guy, but, IMO, *not* for a sniper! More precisely, i believe that agi=7 is MOST important to get, even more important than perception; but after that, i don't see that much importance in it. I will explain, why:
1. Lower starting gun skills: not that big of an impact. In fact, if we have to choose between Agility and Intelligence, - +1 Intelligence gives MORE skillpoints, than we loose in gun-skill via -1 Agility. Easy to calculate this. Worst possible example: player gotta snipe with tagged Small guns. So, it's tagged (+20% start). Then, let's compare:
* 10 Agility start, Gifted+Onehander: 5+40+20-10+10=65%. Then books, all we can get - 155% (capped). If doing without one-hander - it's 153% from books, maximum.
* 7 Agi start, Gifted+NO_onehander: 5+4x7+20-10=43%. Then books: maximum +98% will get us to 141%. So, we are to put some skillpoints to get to 155% (153%), and this skillpoint spend is a "price" for having less agility at the start. How many we must spend? It's 3+3+3+3+3+4+4=23 skillpoints TOPS.
* Supposing we get +3 more intelligence for a less agility, we get +6 skillpoints-per-level. So, to NEGATE small-guns penalty at the start, we need 23 skillpoints - and we will get them FAR before we need them, because we are not putting any single point into smallguns before completing book-part anyways. At lvl 5, we *already will have "extra" 24 skillpoints. Every next level will give us additional skillpoints, which we can put into gun-skill or elsewhere. So, talking about gun skill, lower agility at the start results only in less-chance-to-hit for the first part of the game - when we read books for this skill. And even this is not of any significant drawback: as i shown above, for this part of the game OTHER recruits are able to have waaaay higher gun-skill even if we speak about Agi=10 character, except very first mission (before first level-up). So, for this part of the game (from mission 2 to a moment when we will start putting skillpoints into small guns), our main character can't be a best sniper anyways.
* Conclusion: penalty to starting gun skills is small enough, and that's why Intelligence is times more important than agility.

2) AC. Well, dropping from 10 to 7 agility will result in -3 AC, if no Kamikaze trait. But this is of very minor value for a sniper: any sniper is, normallly, VERY rarely is under fire. Even when it's to shoot enemy's snyper - good player always will try to bring in "tough" character 1-2 tiles ahead of weak sniper, and usually it's of no-problem in SP TB mode (this thread is about it). If, by any chance, our sniper DO have Kamikaze - then it's not a problem AT ALL.

3) AP.
* To snipe effectively, main character need 10 AP. This is 2 aimed shots. Anything less will practically reduce AIMED firepower by 50% (since we speak about TB), and thus is unacceptable. Any more will not provide any bonus firepower (without use or drugs, that is), and since most of the time "off", there is little sense in boosting "permanent" APs to 12 or even 13 - for most of the time, they will be of little use.
* Now, with Agility=7 and with Leader perk from someone in the squad (should be available after lvl 4 for Kevin, for example, and that's rather early in the game) - we get 9 AP.
* At lvl 12 of main character, we get Action Boy perk, and that's it - 10 AP. We even can't make two aimed shots before lvl 15 using Sniper Rifle anyways: to do this, we need Bonus Rate of Fire perk, and it's lvl 15 requirement for it. So, even if we could get 10 AP before lvl 12 (Agility 9 +Leader_perk or Agility 10) - we would still find ourselves unable to shoot two aimed shots from Sniper Rifle. We could do 2 usual shots, tho, but not even one usual + one aimed. And sniping IS about aimed shots in FoT.
* Whether to do ((Agi=7 + Int=X)) or ((Agi=9 + Int=(X-2) )): with AC class difference veing *very* minor factor (not that big difference if at all (Kamikaze or not), we have to choose from: 1 perk-point vs 76 skillpoints (in other words, Action Boy vs +2 int from the start; 76 skillpoints is the result of having +2 Int for up to lvl 24 (this is 92 skillpoints) minus about 16 skillpoints we have to put into small guns (after books) to negate lower starting value of the skill from -2 agility). If we go energy guns, penalty to this skill for having -2 agility at the start is as low as 2 skillpoints (supposing energy guns being tagged, and no books). So, we have to choose - 1 more perk or 74+ skillpoints total at lvl 24. This IS a choice, if fact, and heavily depends on Int value, chosen gun skill(s), supposed length of game, and even on difficulty mode. 74+ more skillpoints (+2 int/-2 agi) are most attractive if: there are two tagged gun skills, Intelligence is relatively low (4..5), player plan to play long game (27th+ maximum level), hardest difficulty mode (penalties to hit-chance are higher, so one need higher gun skill(s)). On the contrary, high (already, 8+) intelligence, only 1 tagged weapon skill (especially if it's small guns), shorter game (no hunts in random encounters), no tough guy mode, normal or easy difficulty mode - most suitable for choosing a perk.

So, in my view, while agility=7 is a must-have for any sniper, - any above that is less important than getting enough Intelligence, Gifted or not.

I wrote all i know about this matter, but if there are other reason(s) to get 9 or 10 "your own" agility in the start - please, EXPLAIN things to me. Are there anything else on this subject at all?


requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Now other characters like CQB, heavy weapons or grenadiers, with their short ranged weapons, aren't going to be as concerned about perception because they'll need to be closer to their targets anyway and will have less range penalties to worry about but not the sniper. So for that reason perception is going to be your most important stat, even if it doesn't affect the skill points of your chosen skills. Now you could argue that since the scoped range of the sniper rifle also negates some ranged penalties that you can afford not to go with 10 perception for a sniper, but I'd say you'd be handicapping your rifle.
I agree with that, after some tests on my own and data you wrote on this subject earlier - this is, without doubt, very truth.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Now keeping that in mind looking at the skills you should pick complementary non combat skills. For the sniper choosing secondary combat skills isn't the most efficient build since none of the other weapons have the same range as the sniper rifle. Even energy weapons, while doing more damage don't take advantage of the sniper build.
Well, laser rifle do have range of 50. But way MORE importantly, there are *robots*, and for them energy weaponry is THAT much better, you know. On the other hand, for living creatures energy weapons are deadly ALSO. That's why it's not so clear to me - energy, or small guns, or even, perhaps, no-gifted + both with highest Int? Highest perception and books will allow to snipe with small guns (sniper rifle) with not-so-high skill without too much of a spend, AND to have quite high (200) energy guns skill as well... For a price of only one (not two) other tagged skill, probably being way lower than it could be if only one tagged gun skill...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Now the real strength of the intelligent sniper is all the glorious skill points you are going to get, so it would be shooting yourself in the foot to take gifted,
OH RLY? :) Well, it wouldn't!
* 1st, (( X Intelligence and no-Gifted )) is generally equal to (( X+4 intelligence with Gifted )) in terms of skillpoints-per-level. One less combat trait is moderate loss, all skills -10% is moderate loss as well, - tagged ones will be compensated with 60+ more skillpoints (+4 int, but -5 skillpoints-per-level for Gifted results in +3 skillpoints-per-level net increase just for that). Let's then compare: what we need more - 1 more "combat" trait - or 3 more "extra" stats from Gifted? For you this may be a question. For me, given the fact that i *will* go quite high Charisma as well - it's not of a question, only way to somehow avoid Gifted for me was discussed already - that mutation i proposed. And even that prooves to be not-so-good idea.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
so our sniper-medic is going a skilled technician rather than a gifted wonder. Now without gifted we are going to be hurting for stat points, but that's the choice of paths in FOT stats or skill points.
There are always choices. But at some point, you can't sacrifice more, since that would result in extreme harm to the character you plan to create. Like below:

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Strength 5
Perception 10
Intelligence 10

For the other stats possibly;

Endurance 3
Charisma 1
Agility 5
Luck 6
* 2nd. You said "shooting in the foot" about taking gifted? Well, going with Agi=5 - THAT is shooting in the foot of any sniper! You won't get Bonus Rate of Fire, as it require Agility=7. You won't even be able to get Bonus Ranged Damage - cause it require agility of 6. You will be able to get Action Boy, and you will need 2 ranks of it to get 10 AP (but without Bonus Rate of Fire, this is rather ineffective - with 6 AP for an aimed shot, 10 APs will only add ability to do 2 unaimed shots per round. So, with this character, it's perhaps not to get 10 AP, but to get trait Fast Shot, so it'll be possible to do two unaimed shots for 8 APs. This character is bad with aimed shots anyways. Drugs? Oh well, you said youself about low endurance being bad for that... And you'll need a lot of drugs to allow him to snipe properly for prolonged periods - two aimed shots each round, that is. Addiction is very possible...).
To get 7 agility with this character, there is only 1 way: to reduce endurance to 1. Will be 2 with elixir. It's possible to play as a sniper then, - but Charisma of 1 makes him TOTALLY unaceptable for me (reasons described above in this post). So, if I to decide about this type of character, - i'd need at least 3 more stat poijts into Charisma. Really. Then, Brown Noser or no, but i'll have at least some benefits of Charisma (i already said why this stat is so important to me), but then, - from where i could get it, +3 stat points i mean, if not Gifted? Agility is minimum (7), perception is given 10, Endurance and luck are at absolute sniper's minimum, - so i'll have to lower either Strength of Intelligence! I could get (although it's painful) 1 from strength - no sniping until PA it would be then, - but other 2 points are to get from Intelligence anyways. 3, if not going to harm str=5. So, it's obvious: Gifted is a must for me, if i'd go a character like this. If, for some strange reason, i'd want that many skillpoints per level, then i'd go with Gifted+skilled, and then 2 ranks of Educated perk, then Action Boy at 12th, Bonus Rate of fire at 16th. This way i'd have 29 skill points per level after lvl 8, with 10 AP i'd do 2 aimed shots per turn, but only 2 perks remained to increase sniping abilities... And rather late in the game... Well, Sharpshooter at 20th, better criticals at 24th... No More Criticals at all, no Bonus Ranged Damage perks also... No combat traits... Is it a sniper or skillbot? =) 20 per level is enough for a sniper, i think. 25 is kinda too much already. 30? For what? Boosting both science and Doctor up to 175+? I am really sure: all those "sacrificed" things (combat trait, several perks) - will provide much better damage...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Endurance can be boosted to a fair 4 with the elixir but it's a suprise right to see agility so low after what I've said previously? But again the choice is between stats and skill points, with an intelligence of 10 and the skilled trait you'll get a lovely 30 points per level, enough to raise your gun skill high enough to compensate for the low agility.
Is it that i do not know anything important? I do not understand while i'd need THAT many skillpoints "to compensate for lower agility". If it's about lower starting value - then, as i shown above, it's only about 8 skill points to compensate each -1 agility at the start in very worst case (tagged small guns, and reading the books to a limit). Energy guns, tagged, are always about 1 skillpoint to compensate each -1 agility. So, going with 5 agility at start, it's at worst (8+1)x5=45 more skillpoints. Getting 30 per level? It seems there IS something i don't know...

I beg you, please, explain how Agility affect efficiency of gun skill in any OTHER way than changing starting values... Please?... :oops:

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Yes this character won't get many perks, divine favour or all the recruits early but you can't have everything.
In the form you made it - he won't be able to shoot 2 aimed shots per round other than under drugs. 5 agility... Heck, with 5 agility he's not a sniper, he's even not one-half of a sniper: with only 1 aimed shot per round AND with less "combat" perks available, - it's one-third of a sniper. After that, taking 10 perception? Calling this character a sniper? Well... I'd not. ;)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
The agile sniper has a choice of sneak, lockpick, steal, traps and pilot. I'd forget pilot, it really doesn't make that much difference to driving. Steal also doesn't get much use to justify it for the main character. So there's a choice between sneak, lockpick and traps. I'd go either sneak and lockpicks or sneak and traps. Sneak and lockpicks allows your sniper to roam the map looking for the best advantage points, sneak and traps is also useful for a scouting sniper. Lockpick and traps? Well, there's not that many trapped locked items.
requiem_for_a_starfury said:
For an all round character, but since the skills you've tagged aren't affected by intelligence you can really play around with this character.
And twice again, for the third and fouth times, you seem to give great value to the highest-stat(s) -> skills-to-use link. And once again, i really beg you:

Please, say, are there any mechanics in game, that give some bonus to skill we are going to use, if corresponding stat is higher (highest)? I mean, EXCEPT increasing skill value at the start of the game. At least, simple answer, - yes or no. Please?..

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Endurance 2
Charisma 6
Intelligence 4
Luck 10

Concentrating on getting criticals rather than doing more damage. I don't like taking a low endurance but with high agility and high luck you probably will not get hit as much anyway.
Well, this character will have 8 skill-points per level. Ok, it's possible to get quite high small-guns skill even with this low amount - but most likely, we gotta say "good bye" to energy weapons, and to any "third" tagged skills as well. Only 184 skillpoints to get at lvl 24... Well, speaking of your skills of choice - could get tagged lockpicks high enough, yes. Sneak to high enough value? I really doubt that... On top of that, Int=4 means that you AGAIN won't get Bonus Rate of Fire. This time, though, being 10 Agility, it's possible to get Gain Agility plus Leader from other recruit, then 1 Action boy, and still snipe aimed twice a turn... But that is 1 "extra" perk to spend. Basicly, we gonna get Gain Agility perk instead of Sharpshooter perk - cause latter require Int-6 as well. And if we said that perception is mort important - you clearly see that +1 agility perk is more than twice worse in compare to a perk that is practically equals +2 perception for shooting purposes. Again, are we sniping or what? :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Well that's my take on snipers.
It was interesting to read, but in my opinion, your take on snipers is rather disputable in some places. I admit, tho, that my take on snipers is also far from perfect, but i hope that while this discussion go forward - my take on snipers becomes better and better. I hope you will find usefull things in my opinions as well. If at least few things i wrote helped you in any way - i'd be quite happy. :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Why not try building a test map then you can position everyone where you want. I do most of my testing on a firing range map I built.
Sure. This is thing to do. But given the fact that i have miserable mod skills (never tried to make a mod nor create a map) - this is not so instant process. Perhaps i'll do one, but surely it won't happen that soon. But why, yes, i'll do, probably. :)

Thanks for your effort, and very best regards, Requiem. Sir.
 
WVr said:
I clearly disagree with that. No offense intended. Here is my main reason: main, and ONLY main character can benefit from high charisma in unique way - getting maximum rank, which means best recruits in-game and faster available recruits
There are no best recruits, the recruits are positioned to reflect your progress. Yes a higher charisma character gets more choice earlier, but that's all. At best a high charisma character is only going to see a couple of extra recruits after each mission than a medium charisma character. Assuming you can keep them alive, you can mold your starting recruits to be as good if not better than the higher level recruits. Because quite frankly some of the recruit builds have some strange choices.

WVr said:
(and, - perhaps, - some better skills/traits/perks for recruits. Personally, i didn't tested this yet, but there are experienced people who say it's so, and they do not have any doubts about that).
I'd love to know when this is meant to happen, in all the years playing I've never noticed any difference and if I load up saved games from charisma 10 and charisma 1 characters and take those recruits available to both there's not an extra perk, trait or skill point in sight.

WVr said:
I wrote all i know about this matter, but if there are other reason(s) to get 9 or 10 "your own" agility in the start - please, EXPLAIN things to me. Are there anything else on this subject at all?
Yeah 10 agility will give you 10 action points, enough for two aimed shots right from the start of the game. Then if you take 2 levels of action boy and bonus rate of fire you can make 3 aimed shots per turn. Therefore increasing aimed fire power by 50%. Plus the agile sniper isn't tied to having to drag a recruit around for the leader bonus or reliant on drugs, though if you don't want to take 2 ranks of action boy, leader and drugs will also work.

WVr said:
Well, laser rifle do have range of 50. But way MORE importantly, there are *robots*, and for them energy weaponry is THAT much better, you know. On the other hand, for living creatures energy weapons are deadly ALSO.
Actually the laser rifle has a range of 45, but more importantly a range setting of long compared to the sniper rifle's scoped. That means it will not offset as many range penalties as the sniper rifle. To put it in context a character with equal small guns and energy weapons skills will by switching to their laser rifle, effectively drop two perception points.

Except for the Behemoth, Tank Bot and Scurry bot most robots have better resistance to energy damage than normal damage. So while the laser rifle does have a higher damage spread, unless you consistantly roll a damage score above 36 you'll be doing less damage than with the sniper rifle.

WVr said:
* 2nd. You said "shooting in the foot" about taking gifted? Well, going with Agi=5 - THAT is shooting in the foot of any sniper! You won't get Bonus Rate of Fire, as it require Agility=7. You won't even be able to get Bonus Ranged Damage - cause it require agility of 6. You will be able to get Action Boy, and you will need 2 ranks of it to get 10 AP (but without Bonus Rate of Fire, this is rather ineffective - with 6 AP for an aimed shot, 10 APs will only add ability to do 2 unaimed shots per round. So, with this character, it's perhaps not to get 10 AP, but to get trait Fast Shot, so it'll be possible to do two unaimed shots for 8 APs. This character is bad with aimed shots anyways. Drugs? Oh well, you said youself about low endurance being bad for that... And you'll need a lot of drugs to allow him to snipe properly for prolonged periods - two aimed shots each round, that is. Addiction is very possible...)
I did recomend taking small frame to boost the agility, then I will get bonus ranged damage, and taking gain agility (not action boy) I could take bonus rate of fire if I really wanted it. Though I've already said I'm not going for energy weapons and the cost of aimed shot for sniper rifle is only 5ap.

WVr said:
In the form you made it - he won't be able to shoot 2 aimed shots per round other than under drugs. 5 agility... Heck, with 5 agility he's not a sniper, he's even not one-half of a sniper: with only 1 aimed shot per round AND with less "combat" perks available, - it's one-third of a sniper. After that, taking 10 perception? Calling this character a sniper? Well... I'd not. Wink
He's as much a sniper as a charmer with energy weapons, I can still get a reasonable amount of combat perks. And once I get PA I can switch to the Gauss Rifle, range 50 not scoped though, but that's only about a drop from 10 - 9 so not so bad with sharpshooter. And with 60 - 80 damage that's a trade off I can live with, even if I can only fire it once a turn.

WVr said:
Please, say, are there any mechanics in game, that give some bonus to skill we are going to use, if corresponding stat is higher (highest)? I mean, EXCEPT increasing skill value at the start of the game. At least, simple answer, - yes or no. Please?..
What do your skills affect? Other skills, nope. Action Points, nope. Armour Class, nope etc. etc. Having higher stats affects lots of things other than just skills, and to concentrate on the skills affected by your high stats is taking the most economical use of skill points. As you will not have to spend so many to raise them to an effective level.

WVr said:
On top of that, Int=4 means that you AGAIN won't get Bonus Rate of Fire.
I think you've confused the sniper rifle and laser rifle, the sniper rifle has a 4 ap cost for normal shots and 5 ap for aimed shots, the laser rifle has a cost of 5 ap for normal shots and 6 ap for called shots. So unless you are going energy weapons or max agility for the three aimed shots per turn, then bonus rate of fire isn't the be all and end of all perks for a sniper. In fact it's more important for other ranged fighters to be able to fire burst more often.
 
1. Replies.
2. Stealing in the missions - question.

1. To make it shorter:
* Yep. I thought Sniper Rifle is 5AP unaimed, 6 AP aimed base. Shame on me. I remember sniping with 6AP with sniper rifle. But it was either in a mod, in earlier patch, or even in other fallout game. I didn't play any fallout for about two years, that's the reason. So, i deserve a slap, definitely. :)
* I see your answer for my bolded question. Well, i've shown in detail in previous post that Intelligence gives more than enough points to negate literally all penalties for agility-based-skills, penalties which appear after we "move" 1-3 points from Agi to Int. In the end, character who chose to increase Agility for the price of lower Int - will be significantly lower with his skills total (that is a fact). And on top of all, yes, lowering agility means lowering several skills - but hey, increasing Int means incresing of several other skills. Well, i think that you now can see what i mean. :)
* being "not-dependant on Leader perk" is good? Well, "it depends". Yes, you can go any way you want, solo or not. This is good. But then, major part of the time you ARE udner Leader (as i said, this perk is to have for one of recruits - very efficient thing of its own, and no need to spend a perk of main character to get it). So, since most of the time you are under Leader, - once extra agility from 10 gives 11 agility, odd number, resulting in no AP bonus from it! Now, you see, it's *partially* a "waste" to have 10 at the start. 7 or 9, but i really think it's better with odd number and with Leader perk from someone in a squad. This, with odd number in Endurance, will get you even number of statpoints for last stats, BTW. Let's take one of your variations and see what it can be with agi = 9:
str=5
per=10
agi=9
End=3 (will Elixir will be 4)
Cha=6
Int=6
Luck=6
And 2 FREE points on top of aboce. If i gotta play this, i'll go Cha=8, int=6, luck=6, or Cha=6, Int=8, luck=6. And Divine Favor for the first case. I like longest games in Fallout, and, for example, i plan to play the game i've started recently with additional simple rule: NO avoiding of any random encounter i meet, or, in other words, "killing every single thing on sight" mode. :) If you gotta play suc a sniper, then, i suppose, it could be:
Cha=4 (and Brown Noser early, perhaps?)
Int=6 (required for Sharpshooter and F.R.o.F perks)
Luck=10 (yeah baby ;) ).
How do you like it? :)
* many many thanks for info about precise difference between long-range and scoped types. It's same as -2 perception. Got it. Again, many thanks! Useful thing.
* Two sniped shots with agi=10 right at the start of the game? Well, are you going to not use full benefit of books for main-character's small guns - raising the skill instead with skillpoints, early, to get about 150% as soon as possible? Only with this sacrifice it makes sense to snipe (two shots per round or not) in the start of the game, i think! Rather simple: you can get Leader with Kevin or Sharon as soon as one of them hit lvl 6, right? So, it's about 2nd mission of bunker Beta. I.e., afer Preoria, generally. Now, at this point of the game, *even* if you went with 65% small guns start for main character: you'll get may be 3 books for small guns at this point. Perhaps one or two could be stealed somewhere. But at very max, it means about 130% small guns skill tops after Preoria, and about 100% average for this part of the game. To snipe with that and with hunting rifle? Well, i say it's not any important if you snipe or not in this part of the game. Cause you won't do that good anyways. :P
* Ok, so you never was able to onserve any difference in recruit's perks, stats, skills or perks. But other people *were* able to observe it. Not one, not two - several people. One of them claims to be as much experienced as you - years of FoT gameplay. But he say he do see some differencies! Well, ok, let's say he's wrong (and others too). No differencies for any single recruit. Let's say it's only faster getting of recuits. Let's say it's ok to have Cha=4 (brown noser or not - i don't know) to get Clarisse and other higher-ranked recruits, and get them not any much later than they are "scripted into the recruit's pool". Yet, as far as i can tell for now, any lower Charisma will make this quite doubtful to happen. Now, at least, i hope you will not use Cha=1 characters anymore... :) By the way, my Charisma=8 character can get rank 5 in bunker alfa, after 3rd mission, with mentats (2 of them), but without mentats - it's rank 4. And there ARE some rank=4 recruits to hire. Yes, in Bunker Alfa. For Cha=2 character, if i remember correctly, it was only about rank=2 recruits in Bunker Alfa after 3rd mission... And I always do all the "scripted" sub-missions in FoT, so for both cases missions were completely completed ( %) :D funny english ). Without Mentats and without Brown Noser for both cases - it's rank 1..4 vs rank 1...2 recruits to have at this point of the game. Now, that IS a difference. :)


2. Question: do you steal in missions, and if yes_and_all_the_time - then how many books and "very rare" loot is available via stealing from in-mission characers throughout the game? You know, doing mission 3 and remembering that that scientist won't be available after mission - i took a sneaky look for his items. He had science book... So, now i am wondering: how many more valuable items are in game - but available only via stealing (supposing that player won't kill mission's objectives and BoS characters)?

I may re-consider my stance about stealing, eventually... Nothing in FoT is more effective in turning honest character (and player) into a stealing machine, than some good amount of books to get, i think. :) :)

P.S. There is one completely-pervertous thing to do in Mission 3... :D There are two Brahmins near the mines there. When door into their place is opened - they run to the mines and blow up themselves. I like alive Brahmins, and i knew they are going to blow up. So, i tried to heal them up to full health before that. Worked: 1 remained alive, but barely. After first explosion, he stood still, and i was able to heal him back to full life. Then i saved the game and tried to move him in hope he will blow another mine. Shooting was a bad idea. Then i loaded saved game - and *surprisingly*, Brahmin went to the mine as soon as game loaded! I was barely able to escape radius of blast with my main character, and i was extremely lucky to save not too close, but at the very "edge of the explosion" range from the point where Brahmin blowed himself up. Then i made another saved and loaded the one with Brahmin again. And again he went to the mine! Effect seem to be permanent: to make that Brahmin to blow next mine - simply save and load the game. Sadly, tho, explosion at point-blank range kills him for good (first explosion was survived by only 1 Brahmin out of two - survived one was not that close to the mine). Quite sadly, i re-writed both saves later, - and now i can't test one idea without re-playing that mission... And idea is to BUFF that brahmin, or even both, to have more Health! :D :D The question is whether they would eat the pills... But if yes... Then it could be possible to "set off" whole mine field there with single Brahmin, and still have him alive after that - with Stitch or other good Doc/FirstAider healing the Brahmin between explosions. Now that IS pervert thing to do. :D :D :D
 
WVr said:
In the end, character who chose to increase Agility for the price of lower Int - will be significantly lower with his skills total (that is a fact). And on top of all, yes, lowering agility means lowering several skills - but hey, increasing Int means incresing of several other skills. Well, i think that you now can see what i mean. :)
Not really, well only if you sacrifice intelligence for charisma or luck. You still can get small guns to 200% and a reasonable percentage in your secondary skill. Third choice might be a bit lacking, but then I of a mind that three tag skills was one two many.

WVr said:
* being "not-dependant on Leader perk" is good? Well, "it depends". Yes, you can go any way you want, solo or not.
Well there is a good reason to keep people apart, and that is to avoid being torn up by the burst bug.

WVr said:
This is good. But then, major part of the time you ARE udner Leader
That depends on how you play, the only time you can guarantee characters are going to be close enough to receive the benefit is at the beginning and end of a mission.

WVr said:
* Two sniped shots with agi=10 right at the start of the game? Well, are you going to not use full benefit of books for main-character's small guns - raising the skill instead with skillpoints, early, to get about 150% as soon as possible? Only with this sacrifice it makes sense to snipe (two shots per round or not) in the start of the game, i think!
Why? Even going with the high luck low int character I posted you are still getting 8 points a level, more than enough to get a reasonable small guns skill fairly early in the game. 100 - 130% with hunting rifle is perfectly fine against the low level opponents you get in the early part of the game.

WVr said:
* Ok, so you never was able to onserve any difference in recruit's perks, stats, skills or perks. But other people *were* able to observe it. Not one, not two - several people. One of them claims to be as much experienced as you - years of FoT gameplay. But he say he do see some differencies!
Right alec for one, there are several possibilities.

1. Since I bought the game 6 years ago I've been lucky/unlucky to never have seen this happen. Possible, just today I saw Farsight get promoted, which was the first time I've seen a recruit gain a rank ever. Though I had edited the bunker map.

2. People have either played since the game came out, before and after the patch or uninstalled and reinstalled sometimes forgetting to patch the game. The patch changed the recruits, for instance Alec mentions Trevor not always having fast shot or Ice not always having finesse. Well the unpatched Trevor doesn't have fast shot and the unpatched Ice has strong back not finesse and loner.

3. Mods, how many people have installed mods, and then forgotten about them or not uninstalled them properly?

4. Alec was messing around, there is a good reason the term alecking was coined on these boards.

5. All of the above?

WVr said:
Now, at least, i hope you will not use Cha=1 characters anymore... :)
Charisma 1 is a very valid way of playing. The other recruits aren't that good. You will still see many of the recruits by the end of the game and it's not like any of them have any personality or good lines you'll miss out on.

WVr said:
2. Question: do you steal in missions, and if yes_and_all_the_time
Sorry I haven't done since my earliest characters (in the default campaign at least). But Dyson doesn't have a science book in his inventory?
 
First of all, after reading your post in its entirety, and before answering, i went to check if the name of that scientist in mission 3 is indeed Dyson. Well, with quick googling, i didn't find confirmation, but heck, he's only 1 scientist in mission 3 (RockFalls), he's very required person to see - since he gives an item required for completion of the mission (robotic arm).

Side note: but i found a guide about FoT with detailed description of missions; there are spoilers, spoilers and again spoilers, - but what is very unusual, author do have quite excellent sense of humor, and as such i spen about 5 minutes (and that is MUCH for me vs a guide) - reading here and there. Jokes are abundant and rather intelligent. This may be a pleasurable reading, with occasional piece of interesting info. This is rare occasion when i can recommend this guide for the reading; on top of all, guide is above soloing the game, so, if someone interested... Not me, tho, i prefer some squad in any case. Anyways, here's the link: http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/370849/40880 .

So, back to the scientist's book:

I am absolutely (100.00%) sure he HAD science book in his inventory in my game. Here is what i can say about this particular game and mission, i played it just yesterday:
* 1.27.
* Normal difficulty.
* In mission, main alarm was never set off. Main gates remained opened for all times. Raiders were in non-alarmed position. And, just to say along: i made it completely without use of Sneak. Not even once. No sneak at all. All it took is to look around, to see things, to understand what and why they are, and to shoot from appropriate place, appropriate time, with several people at once. It even was a day-light mission. :P
* I performed picking into scientist's inventory, using stealing skill ofc, by a recruit named Rage (i hope spelling is right). He has tagged Steal skill of 81% value at that moment.
* I took that sneaky look into scientist's inventory AFTER first talk to him, but before second talk (ofcourse).
* My main character have exactly these stats: s.p.e.c.i.a.l. = 5.9.2.8.8.7.8. (personal sympathy to 8s, perhaps? :) ). May be 8 luck have something to do with it - i mean, perhaps with high luck some items are added upon mission's map generation? Anyways, if main character stats have any impact to this - well, i provided.
* I made that pick into scientist's inventory *after* i cleared the map, so - no enemies in proximity, in fact, no enemies anywhere. Not that i think it does matter - but then, what do i know...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Not really, well only if you sacrifice intelligence for charisma or luck. You still can get small guns to 200% and a reasonable percentage in your secondary skill. Third choice might be a bit lacking, but then I of a mind that three tag skills was one two many.
Ok. I think it's pointless to discuss it, as we both, i hope, got a grain of rationality in each other's correct sayings. My gratitude for your ones is... Well, just is. :)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Well there is a good reason to keep people apart, and that is to avoid being torn up by the burst bug.
I use bursts only in TB mode, and so i do not have any problems with it: few steps in proper direction, made by a person(s) who will do bursts (or shotgun) is very easy thing to do. Especially that i do these steps NOT in the round which is calling for burst fire - i do these steps in previous round or even in very start of the fight. It's quite a habit of mine for hard fights to do that. For moderate and easy fights, i just switch ALL team members to non-burst mode (or non-burst weapons), then select them all and fire with them all - without bursts and without non-required Real-life timeloss. This is my manner to play FoT, but ofcourse, it's nor best, nor even any-suitable for certain player.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
That depends on how you play, the only time you can guarantee characters are going to be close enough to receive the benefit is at the beginning and end of a mission.
You're right. That depends on a manner of playing the game. It was silly of me to forget that. Sorry for that.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Why? Even going with the high luck low int character I posted you are still getting 8 points a level, more than enough to get a reasonable small guns skill fairly early in the game. 100 - 130% with hunting rifle is perfectly fine against the low level opponents you get in the early part of the game.
For this, it doesn't matter how high (or low) Intelligence you got. Reason: you either to WAIT with putting any single skill-point into small guns (to get it raised with books first), and then you will get higher mid-game and end-game result with given skill-point spent; OR, you're going to put some (more or less) skillpoints into smallguns rather early, *before* you have a chance to read at least 6-7 books about small guns. Doing this will effectively *reduce* end-game value of small-gun during mid-game and end-game (or, if player will compensae the lost of gains from books with more skillpoints later, - then it will result in less skillpoints to spend into other skills of the character). I always do books first, without putting own skillpoints into the skill. And this requires time - about 8-9 first missions is about that time. 6-7 missions at very least, for me.

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Right alec for one, there are several possibilities.

1. Since I bought the game 6 years ago I've been lucky/unlucky to never have seen this happen. Possible, just today I saw Farsight get promoted, which was the first time I've seen a recruit gain a rank ever. Though I had edited the bunker map.

2. People have either played since the game came out, before and after the patch or uninstalled and reinstalled sometimes forgetting to patch the game. The patch changed the recruits, for instance Alec mentions Trevor not always having fast shot or Ice not always having finesse. Well the unpatched Trevor doesn't have fast shot and the unpatched Ice has strong back not finesse and loner.

3. Mods, how many people have installed mods, and then forgotten about them or not uninstalled them properly?

4. Alec was messing around, there is a good reason the term alecking was coined on these boards.

5. All of the above?
I made some searches in google, and while i was unable to find precise info on the subject - overall feeling of lousiness from reading pretty unclear things here and there i got. And thus i tend to agree with you in that subject. Also, perhaps, i found another reason for common misunderstandings here. That is:

6. It's known fact that game does level up recruit in pool "automatically", if player do not pay any attention to given recruit. And, everyone around who talk about it - is pretty sure that game choose some perks quite randomly. According to some authors, skill gains, if recruit was levelled up bu a game itself, - may vary as well. At least, that makes sense. So, then, if player A will let the game to level up particular recruit somewhat, it could be possible that game will pick, say, Mutate and thus will change a trait. If that's possible, and choices are random, then in pretty low percentages of such occasions Mutation will be to (or from) Gifted perk - resulting in Stats change. And i am pretty sure that not everyone level-up ALL recruits manually...

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Charisma 1 is a very valid way of playing. The other recruits aren't that good. You will still see many of the recruits by the end of the game and it's not like any of them have any personality or good lines you'll miss out on.
Well... With Charisma=1, as far as i can tell, quite many recruits will appear in the list WAY later then "scripted in". I assume that this will result in simple thing: game will level them "to catch up", while they are "invisible" in the list of recruits. And that means no control over their grow... Quite bad thing, i think. But, to say the truth, that IS an assumption: i can't proove my belief. Other than that, you definitely won't see these high-ranked recruits - and they ARE that good, even having "extra" stats:
Dos (Reaver) 6 10 8 2 7 6 9 (48!)
Small Guns, Energy Weapons, Traps, Science
Gifted, Finesse
Bonus Rate of Fire, More Criticals x3, Sharpshooter,
Toughness, Loner
,
Clarisse 5 11 6 8 9 10 4 (53!!)
Sneak, Big Guns, Energy Weapons, Throwing
Gifted, Fast Shot, Small Frame
Bonus Move, Dodger, Heave Ho!, Gain PE, Gain EN,
Quick Recovery, Weapon Handling, Tunnel Rat,
Flexible, Leader, Divine Favor, Tag! (Perk Rate 2)
One more level, and player can give to her Bonus Rate of Fire. With that, she do 5 unaimed shots from best energy weapon in game - per turn, doing the damage, comparable to Laser Gatling. But she won't use so much cells, and there will be no problems with Burst bug, - energy rifles do single-shot fire with highest damage. She can sneak, throw, she got Leader perk and some aux perks of use. Ofcourse, it's possible to create even more deadly character, but THIS deadly and THIS skilled (mind you, her tagged skills are very-very above "just usable" mark right when we can hire her)? I doubt it.
And what about Jim? He's Paladin-commander rank. And he's the one to be insanely deadly with mutant-only (Single Player game) style to do Big Gun bursts: 2 AP ones... =)

requiem_for_a_starfury said:
Sorry I haven't done since my earliest characters (in the default campaign at least). But Dyson doesn't have a science book in his inventory?
Well, may be try it then. It would be only logical if creators of the game added significant amount of really valuable items to the inventories of non-trading, temporary-available, not-supposed-to-be-killed characters: this would add some value to the stealing skill, some "unique" benefit of having it and using it. So, NPCs in missions, NPCs in one-time random encounters, people in BoS bunkers, and even these non-hostile "city dwellers" in Random ancounters - from now on, i'll keep an eye on what things are available via stealing way... If there is at least "sometimes" books, and it's only by thief to get it, - i'll surely will make one of my gunners being high thief as well... =)
 
WVr said:
So, back to the scientist's book:

I am absolutely (100.00%) sure he HAD science book in his inventory in my game. Here is what i can say about this particular game and mission, i played it just yesterday:
Yeah he does have a book, I was thinking about his entity, like most npcs you'll meet in mission and back in a bunker there are two entities. One for the mission with appropriate inventory and one for the bunker usually with reward items you can trade for/steal. Rechecking the map and it's linked to the bunker entity not the mission entity, so you can get two books from him. One in mission and one later back at the bunker. Sorry when I took the game apart I hadn't noticed that before.

WVr said:
Ok. I think it's pointless to discuss it, as we both, i hope, got a grain of rationality in each other's correct sayings. My gratitude for your ones is... Well, just is. :)
Each way has it's advantages and drawbacks. Up to people to decide which approach meets the style they like to play.

WVr said:
I use bursts only in TB mode, and so i do not have any problems with it:
This is a bug that happens primarily when people are shooting at you. If someone fires from too great a distance and misses they can hit those next to their target instead. Sounds fair right, but the bug is instead of those around the target getting hit with one or two bullets, every bullet will hit home (for Max damage IIRC) which can be very deadly. Especially to a sniper with low endurance.

WVr said:
I assume that this will result in simple thing: game will level them "to catch up", while they are "invisible" in the list of recruits.
The game will only level up recruits that you've returned to the pool. Recruits you've never taken will not gain experience as you do.

But again it's down to style, if you prefer a really strong main character or a really strong squad.

Edit. Just going back to your question about perception 10 and sharpshooter. Sharpshooter isn't affected by the racial maximum limit. While boosting agility to 11 with divine favour or leader and then taking voodoo will only result in an agility of 12, a perception of 10 and sharpshooter taking mentats will boost chance to hit (at a target 30 tiles away) from 28% to 42%.
 
Ok, so Sharpshooter works to increase range of high-chance-to-hit shooting in any case, then. I guess that effective maximum we can get with it (and with drugs, or, perhaps, Divine Favor to perception, Gain perception, whatever) - is 14 (12 racial max "plus kinda two from sharpshooter")?

Every bullet will hit, for max damage, - for that bug... Ouch, that sounds painful. Hm, why i never noticed such a extreme damages? Perhaps it can happen if "another" guy (not the real target of that burst) is not that far from targeted fellow? And what would be that range, then? 5 tiles, 10 tiles? You see, most of the times my "tank" character don't simply stay 1-2 tiles ahead of sniper(s), - he usually moves forward with some shotgun or (later) big gun in hands, and provide some nuking on his own as required... Proning or not, depends on situation, ofc... May be this could be a saver? :)


Edit: Concluding the discussion, - character plan and some planning of squad members, as i see it *now*, after THAT much of a help from Requiem. Thanks for the help, i say! :)
1. Character.
* Stats: s.p.e.c.i.a.l. of 5.9.2.8.8.9.6 seems to be quite good for my charismatic sniper main character, keeping in mind longer game and Divine Favor, potential for 12AP (with some recruit with Leader around), all the "critical" perks, importance of perception (will be 10 with Divine Favor), and Gifted penalty to skills-per-level. If anyone gotta go with Cha=6 - then put one more point to Perception (no Divine Favor later), and one more to either Agility or Intelligence, - depending on whether you plan to keep one recruit with Leader near the main character or not. In either way, goal is to get 10 AP without spending any single perk of main character, and later 12 AP with Action Boy twice.
* Traits: Gifted for sure; second is one of: Kamikaze (my personal preference), Onehander, Finesse. Although myself, i don't like Finesse, i know that damage penalty can be negated with two perks (Bonus ranged damage), but i plan to get them as well, and with Kamikaze it'll be 55% more damage. The main thing about those extra 55% that they are, in most cases, "above" the armor, and thus will be ctually more effective than 55%. Simple example: if character do 20 damage without bonuses to damage, and victim's armor is, say, 2/25% resistance, - then we get (20-2)x75% = 13.5 damage (let's forget rounding here). With 55% bonus damage, however, our characer would do 20x155%=31 damage. Then this damage is going to be reduced by same armor: (31-2)x75% = 21.75 damage. So, in given example, +55% "shot out" damage - results in (21.75/(13.5/100%))-100% = +61% *actual* damage! And this is with about rather weak armor of the target, like Leather armor. The stronger armor of the target is, the more percentage of actual damage incresing will be. Hehe. :) At last, if not Kamikaze nor Finesse, - onehander will save some skillpoints, and will provide easier start with small guns. Thing with onehander is that the lower Intelligence of a character is, the more useful Onehander trait become. For a Intelligence=6 character (really minimum for a sniper - required for very most important perks) Onehander is of serious help.
* Skills: with 8 Intelligence, i choose to tag: small guns, energy guns, and doctor. Options are either of:
No energy guns if player plan to use only Sniper Rifle, - then it's ok to tag Science (20% more before the books, hehe, and then, if desired, some more raising with own skillpoints after books) - for bonus damage to robots;
OR, for a bit extreme only-energy-weapons specialist - no small guns. If player would like to get anything else (not science) with "third" tag - sneaking or stealing, perhaps, - then go for it, why not. Just make quick evaluation of planned skillpoint spends, and if you need more, consider Educated perk early in the game.
* Perks: Sharpshooter at level 9, Bonus Rate of Fire at level 15 are essential. Then, it's either:
Save perk at 12 and get Divine Favor at level 14, then twice Action boy at 17 and 19;
OR, if no Divine Favor, - simply Action Boy at 12 and 18 levels.
Other than above, player will get Better Criticals, More Ranged Damage, and More Criticals for all other perks available.

2. The team. My personal preferences. Note that this team is to make for second half of the game, - although some characters are available very early, not all of them are.
2.1. Main character.
2.2. Tanking character: Jax. Best tank, IMO. I mutate him to Gifted instead of Kamikaze. Means no penalty to AC, 8 endurance, 7 strength, 6 luck at level 9. Just what i need for: good AC, high life, any-big-gun in PA, and most importantly (for a "tank") - Toughness perks available. In PA, damage reduction will be up to 55% normal, add of 30% means reducing taken damage from 45% to 15% - i.e., he will live 3 times longer under normal fire. Too sad there is no similar perk for energy damage. So, he is rather hard to kill this way - counting also the fact that practically NOONE in the game can remain even for 1 round in point-blank range near the guy with M2 equipped - especially if that guy is able to do 3 bursts per 1 round. :D And while with Gifted he get only 12 skillpoints per level - it's still enough to get gun skill high. He's able to get Bonus Rate of Fire, and with his Fast Shot it's 3 bursts per round. His perception is 7 (Gifted), so, if by any chance player want him to fire from longer distances - well, he *can* get Sharpshooter. :) Any perks of enhancing ranged combat line is also available for him. And Lifegiver (at lvl 12) surely helps if longer game is planned.
2.3. Sniper: Robin. Little tricky to get him Gifted and Tag the gun skill too. If any player don't mind to Mutate a recruit without any TRait - then get Rebecca instead. Both are usefull as snipers AND lockpickers, that's why it's about them. Both can get 12 AP at higher levels - with two ranks of Action boy and Leader around (Robin, if not to remove his Smallframe trait with mutation, can get 12 AP without Leader as well).
2.4. Sniper: Ice. She is my Outdoorsman, i give to her books, as she will easily get 155% of that skill with books only. Mutate from Finesse to Gifted is what i will do. Then she will able to get Sharpshooter and Bonus Rate of Fire. In latest part of the game, she will get Bonus Ranged damage, too, but not before two ranks of Action Boy, - with Gifted and neaby Leader it'll be 12 AP -> 3 aimed shots per round. Speaking of leader:
2.5. Clarisse. Before her, this role will be taken by Kevin, who will do good with a shotgun to cover nearby snipers, or, if player choose to, can do this with melee weapons. I prefer shotguns, tho. :) And when i'll get Clarisse, - her firepower is both great and long-ranged, just what i need for a sniper squad. She also will do good with Plasma grenades against any tight groups of enemies closing in. She can't aim, but 5 long-range shots per round from best energy gun is valuable thing as well to balance total firepower of the group (we have 2 or 3 "normal" snipers already). Note: there is NO recruit in game to be this deadly energy gun specialist AND to have Leader perk.
2.6. Anything else. If player want stealing, then consider Rage. If Pipboy - then why not. :) If player want some more Big Gun firepower - get Jim. He's stinky, so it's better to have him doing flank attack or anything else half+ screen away from others. :) My personal preference, if not stealing character (for in-mission and in-random-encounter stealing) - will be another sniper. "Just" sniper, i.e. - another character who can get 3 aimed shots per round (or 4 unaimed, BTW) with the Sniper Rifle; and when i'll need certain specialist for a particular mission or encounter (like high-barter recruit to go get some good deals outside the bunker), - this last slot is reserved for such a person. At last, another high-ranked recruit (like Debbie, if player will find her high APs together with Sneak and Traps being desired) can take this position.

2.misc. Be sure to SAVE perks for recruits until you can get what you need to get best end-game result.

3. Epilogue. This is my final look at the "sniping" team for a single player, TB mode. Without doubt, my personal preference and desires influenced my choices (for example, i prefer not to Mutate any person who do not have at least 1 trait) - but i hope, at least, that this way of playing the game may be very rewarding and interesting for many other FoT players; and i hope that described main character, as well as described team, is indeed of better-than-average perfomance through the game.

Thanks for the reading, and happy playing the game. WVr out.
 
Well I'm not sure if it is for max damage or not. Even if it isn't, it is still a devastating attack since everyone near the intended target will get hit.

The range is at least a 5 tile radius around the target. And that's coincidentally the same area you have to be in to give/get the bonus from the leader perk.
 
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