Subm.: Diablo II

Akratus

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Diablo II
Released in the year 2000.
Developed by Blizzard North
For PC and Mac.
Purcahasable by retail and http://us.blizzard.com/store/ or http://eu.blizzard.com/store/



Of demons and angels.

"And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the ‘guise of man shall He walk amongst the innocent; and Terror shall consume thee who dwell upon the Earth. Behold! The war amongst the heavens shall not be contained; and the sons of man shall be engulfed in the flood of conflict, and all hope shall be lost unto them. And He shall make war upon the heavens, and the heavens shall gird themselves as for battle. The righteous shall fall upon the wicked... and lay siege to the very gates of Hell. And He shall take peace from mankind and loose great destruction upon the earth. The Lord of Hatred shall ascend his throne; and the fires of Hell shall devour all.
And He shall mete out his vengeance upon all flesh. And the blood of innocents shall run as great torrents.
... Who then shall be saved? ..."

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The diablo games are one of the few directly based on christian mythology. Pentagrams, crosses, other religious symbols and churches make many appearances. And it conjures images of the crusades and medieval times with it's dark art style. The twist on the christian tale, is that humanity takes a back seat in the grand scheme of things, rather than being a large part.

Originally there was simply heaven and hell, doing battle for all eternity. Hell ruled by the Prime evils, Diablo, Mephisto and Baal. On the other hand, Heaven, ruled by the Angiris Council containing many an archangel, representative of facets of life such as death, war, justice, love. There was nought but a struggle for one to overcome the other. Untill a certain angel and demon wished to no longer take part in the war. They created Sanctuary, a new world where any being could live in peace. An ideal quickly destroyed, obviously. The beings that resulted from their relationship were named the Nephalem. Humans. Beings with the power of both of their ancestors.

The prime evils wish to convert Sanctuary in to a permanent outpost of hell and use the powerful Nephalem for their own malevolent purposes. But the Angiris council has had more mixed reactions. Imperius, the angel of war, called for it's imminent destruction for he sees the Nephalem as an abomination. A vote was called. Tyrael, archangel of justice, made the decisive vote to spare Sactuary from certain doom. Instead, the power of the Nephalem was constrained by the creation of the world stone. It's fate has hung in the balance ever since.

Hacking and slashing.

Since it's creation and onward, it was seen as the epitome of isometric combat based RPG's. Even so far that similar games afterwards were called Diablo Clones. And it was well received upon release, resulting in an expansion pack being developed later on.

Gameplay is quite simple, one chooses 1 of 5 (or 7 with expansion.) and travels through 4 (or 5 w. exp.) acts full of monsters, ending in a boss battle. The fun in the game is mostly derived from it's cooperative element, visceral combat, and online play. Up to 8 players can join together in a single game resulting in a barrage of possible sounds, effects and enemies on screen. Combat is satisfying because the player character has seemingly no limit on it's ever increasing power (until the maximum level is reached, that is.) and enemies have many unique animations to be played upon their death. Blood sprays, magical effects, and frantic movement make up the Diablo Experience.

Not to mention, it's dazzling array of useless, magical and legendary loot. It was one of the first to utilize a system to randomly assign qualities to found equipment. This was one of it's main features upon release and a large part of the reason the game is still played today.

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Faults and frustrations.

Although online multiplayer has kept the game alive, it was everything but well thought out. Bots, hacks, dupes, bots and scams infest it's battle.net servers. Playing in a completely open game is a bold move indeed. Blizzard North has never been able to get the amount of cheating and griefing down to an acceptable level. Every patch seemed to cause more problems than it solved. Anyone looking for a fun, carefree game was to stay away from Diablo 2's battle.net.

And character balance is the other element of the game causing untold anger amongst fans. The majority of players played certain character builds often called overpowered, and rightly so. Hammerdins being the most notorious. But some players say that this is all part of the fun. Diablo 2 is seemingly the most idiotically designed game to be so succesfull.

The story is also not the deepest part of the game, and it almost never involves the character(s) you play. There's a cutscene per act and much text per npc and quest, so story is optional and choice-less. It is however, not simply a dull attachment. It expands on the first game's backstory, and tells a tale with a clear structure. It is a mysterious story at first, and it never shows the full picture untill the latter parts of the game.

The game is focused on combat, has no character creation and doesn't involve the player in the story. But it is a formula no one has recreated as succesfully since.
 
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Izual said:
Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Yeah it doesn't have dialogue, except in cinematics, only monologues. But that doesn't mean it's a bad rpg. Besides, I didn't type up this thread expecting it to be praised, or for this to even be accepted, it's just a game I'd put in a list of rpg's. Because it's one of my favorite games of all time. Some have proposed Diablo 1. Why that game and not this one? They have exactly the same story telling.

Have you ever even seen the Diablo 2 cinematics? That's epic storytelling compared to many games.
 
Mjolnir said:
it's just a game I'd put in a list of rpg's. Because it's one of my favorite games of all time.

But that's not a good reason, dude. I love GTA, yet I wouldn't put it in that list.
Calling Diablo a RPG is just a consequence of recent marketing campaign from the big companies to reduce the meaning of this word to make it apply to basically every game, so that you can rite "RPG" on every Blizzard and Bethesda game.
 
Izual said:
Mjolnir said:
it's just a game I'd put in a list of rpg's. Because it's one of my favorite games of all time.

But that's not a good reason, dude. I love GTA, yet I wouldn't put it in that list.
Calling Diablo a RPG is just a consequence of recent marketing campaign from the big companies to reduce the meaning of this word to make it apply to basically every game, so that you can rite "RPG" on every Blizzard and Bethesda game.

No it's not. I've played RPG's since before that. Don't think of me as someone who goes lol loots and dragons whenever the word RPG is mentioned.

But sure, there's better RPG's to choose for the list. Stamp a big "Denied" on this one. :P But I posted this only because Demon's Soul's was posted. That one not ok too or. . . ?
 
I don't know Demon's Soul, however I know Diablo quite well. And so far I can tell if Fallout is an RPG then Diablo is not an RPG, that's all.

I'm not here to stamp "Denied", just to state my opinion. And my opinion is, obviously, Diablo is not an RPG. :p
 
Izual said:
How is Diablo a role-playing game? It doesn't even have dialogs.

It's an action-RPG. Plenty of good RPG games don't have real dialogues. Wasteland doesn't have dialogues, Wizardry has hardly any dialogues, hell, Deus Ex doesn't have any real dialogues.

Diablo is a well realized game with stat-based combat, a well developed character system with tens of unique builds etc.

Also, why is Lord of Destruction not included, ey?
 
Izual said:
I don't know Demon's Soul, however I know Diablo quite well. And so far I can tell if Fallout is an RPG then Diablo is not an RPG, that's all.

I'm not here to stamp "Denied", just to state my opinion. And my opinion is, obviously, Diablo is not an RPG. :p

I hadn't even considered how good the story is measured up to the likes of fallout. I just figured, they're never going to fill up this list with rpg's with amazing stories, I like this one, it has a good story in my opnion, so I'll submit this and then later I'll submit the Witcher 2 or something.

Tagaziel said:
Izual said:
How is Diablo a role-playing game? It doesn't even have dialogs.

It's an action-RPG. Plenty of good RPG games don't have real dialogues. Wasteland doesn't have dialogues, Wizardry has hardly any dialogues, hell, Deus Ex doesn't have any real dialogues.

Diablo is a well realized game with stat-based combat, a well developed character system with tens of unique builds etc.

Also, why is Lord of Destruction not included, ey?

I'm not 100% clear on all the rules and such. You can do two games in one? I just did like the other threads.
 
Tagaziel said:
Diablo is a well realized game with stat-based combat, a well developed character system with tens of unique builds etc.

So is Fallout Tactics; should we put it in the list?
 
Mjolnir said:
I'm not 100% clear on all the rules and such. You can do two games in one? I just did like the other threads.

Assume best release, eg. Diablo II + LoD. Conserves list space, allows for more games to be included.

Izual said:
So is Fallout Tactics; should we put it in the list?

Tactics is a tactical game with stats, not an RPG.

By your logic, we should exclude Wasteland, Might & Magic and other classic RPG titles on the basis of them having no dialogues.

We're using a sensu largo definition of RPG for the list, rather than trying to cut hairs, figuring out if a game is an RPG or not. There's no clear definition for the genre at any rate.
 
If there is "no clear definition for the genre at any rate" then why you excluded F:T from RPG games?
Actually F:T is more RPG than Diablo 2, which is simpy Hack'n'slash.
 
To me, a RPG is where you can follow your own path, through choices. Choices are often made with dialogues. There are no choices in Diablo. Except char builds. But then this is quite a sad definition of RPG.
 
Izual said:
To me, a RPG is where you can follow your own path, through choices. Choices are often made with dialogues. There are no choices in Diablo. Except char builds. But then this is quite a sad definition of RPG.

I do believe we decided to use a loose definition and include games with RPG elements as well. Otherwise, we'd have trouble picking out 10 classics, let alone 100.

Also, as shown in multiple forum battles here and elsewhere, choosing c&c as the baseline for RPGs doesn't make a perfect definition either. Just an example - BGII is a game, which is dreadfully linear and where most choices offered through dialogue are just faux, flavor choices, in best traditions of BW. And yet I think most RPG fans would agree on it as a classic of the genre.
 
Herm, so "we won't find enough RPGs, so let's say Diablo and Fallout Tactics are RPG too"?

I can see now how IGN made such a list... :p
 
Izual said:
Herm, so "we won't find enough RPGs, so let's say Diablo and Fallout Tactics are RPG too"?

I can see now how IGN made such a list... :p

I think you're making too big a deal about it. If we're going to be too picky we won't fill up all 100. Besides we're still going to vote on these. And Diablo 2 is way smarter a game than 90% of the games on ign's list.
 
Mjolnir said:
Izual said:
Herm, so "we won't find enough RPGs, so let's say Diablo and Fallout Tactics are RPG too"?

I can see now how IGN made such a list... :p

I think you're making too big a deal about it. If we're going to be too picky we won't fill up all 100. Besides we're still going to vote on these. And Diablo 2 is way smarter a game than 90% of the games on ign's list.

I wouldn't consider Fallout Tactics a must play title especially if we are attempting to keep sequels down. We will find plenty of games for the list without shoveling in crap, trust me, not to say you can't submit that if you like though. Diablo is considered an action RPG, has greatly changed gaming in many ways, and is still a solid game even by todays standards. Is it more simplistic than say Fallout 2? Sure. I guarantee you won't see half the garbage on IGN's list anywhere near ours though. What's the Diablo hate all about anyway? Diablo 1 and 2 are still at the top of their genre, even after countless clones have been drowning the market in recent years, the originals are still the best. I've never understood the "Diablo isn't a RPG " complaint personally. Yes it doesn't let you choose different dialog choices, but that isn't the only criteria for a RPG, otherwise jRPG's would be called something else.


Ausdoerrt said:
Izual said:
To me, a RPG is where you can follow your own path, through choices. Choices are often made with dialogues. There are no choices in Diablo. Except char builds. But then this is quite a sad definition of RPG.

I do believe we decided to use a loose definition and include games with RPG elements as well. Otherwise, we'd have trouble picking out 10 classics, let alone 100.

Also, as shown in multiple forum battles here and elsewhere, choosing c&c as the baseline for RPGs doesn't make a perfect definition either. Just an example - BGII is a game, which is dreadfully linear and where most choices offered through dialogue are just faux, flavor choices, in best traditions of BW. And yet I think most RPG fans would agree on it as a classic of the genre.

Agreed, but we also don't want to go too loose with the definition. I would hate to see a shitload of MMORPG's on the list, but that's just me. Guess it's up to the NMA hive-mind though...

Tagaziel said:
We're using a sensu largo definition of RPG for the list, rather than trying to cut hairs, figuring out if a game is an RPG or not. There's no clear definition for the genre at any rate.

This. :)
 
TorontRayne said:
Agreed, but we also don't want to go too loose with the definition. I would hate to see a shitload of MMORPG's on the list, but that's just me. Guess it's up to the NMA hive-mind though...

Funny you say that, I wanted to make my next submission an MMO. I mean, a plenty of MMOs have more right to be called "RPG" than some JRPGs or aRPGs.

As for whether one considers something a must-play title or not - well, that's up to the general poll to decide.
 
Ausdoerrt said:
TorontRayne said:
Agreed, but we also don't want to go too loose with the definition. I would hate to see a shitload of MMORPG's on the list, but that's just me. Guess it's up to the NMA hive-mind though...

Funny you say that, I wanted to make my next submission an MMO. I mean, a plenty of MMOs have more right to be called "RPG" than some JRPGs or aRPGs.

As for whether one considers something a must-play title or not - well, that's up to the general poll to decide.


Go for it dude. Ultima Online, EVE, and Everquest are worthy mentions imo, and WoW has done a lot for the genre. Like you said, it's ultimatly up to the polls anyway. Personally I have never cared a lot for them due to the constant grind. I'm just throwing my two cents in though, you guys can submit whatever you want. By shitload I meant having 30 MMO's on the list, since I don't honestly think that that many are that different from one another, once again though, I don't want to discourage anyone from listing what they want. :)
 
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