Super Mutants

[Eternal]

Ok, so in FO2 the majority of the supermutants are dying off, correct? Flash forward 80 years and a couple thousand miles and there is a new breed of supermutants created by another experiment with the FEV virus that apparently was going on (regardless of how brain hemorragingly stupid that plot device is.)

To get to my point, shouldn't the supermutants in New Vegas be extremely rare? Not only are they fairly far from the old military base, but 83 years have passed since FO2, so many of them would most likely have been killed off. The super mutants are sterile (IIRC) so reproduction is impossible, and there is no way to make new mutants on the west coast. Couple that with the fact they are much too far away for them to be *logically* of the same breed of super mutant as the cannibilistic ones of the DC area, there should be next to NO super mutants in NV.

Thoughts?

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

NV takes place 39 years after FO2 not 83. And in FO2 there was a new breed of supermutants. But yeah, logically they shouldn't be very common. But just like I'm afraid every FO will have the BoS every new episode must have SMs.

I'm not so sure that they are supposed to die from normal aging, though.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

as far as i know, (citation needed as they say...)

2161 1 : the Master > Super Mutants
2197 Fallout Tactics : small pocket of SM's (unlikely to have survived much beyond the story of Tactics.)
2241 2 : remnants of the masters SM's > most likely the last of the real SM race.
2274 Failout 3 : a different brand of SM's bludgeoned into the game for no good reason and with no real way to repopulate their own kind (lack intellectual capacity to rebuild and utilise the FEV instillations of the DC area)

some facts of SM's
yes sterile, see also , fallout tactics and the work done in the game to 're-populate' SM race. it has potential to be ongoing but is dependant on game outcome, as such this give it a probablity of around 40-50% chance of the original SM race having viable and ongoing reproduction. reference link

SM's live for some considerable amount of time, but are assumed to be vulnerable to die of old age (reference Marcus )

so assuming that SM's can live many hundreds of years (possibly?) its safe to assume they 'could' be in NV due to time line.

If looking to fallout tactics it is seen that SM's do travel, but I assume only under leadership (i.e. an intelligent SM) so, geographically speaking, yes it is possible for them to have found NV

And assuming that SM's aren't hunted to extinction (in most games where present SM's present a VERY high danger factor and its safe to say an organised group of them would dispatch pretty much anything in their path.)

All that taken into account, coupled with some random guess work (ie, how likely is it that NV would be either stumbled upon / or inviting enough) I'd say there is a low chance of SM's to be there for any 'realistic' reason, then again... as we know from Failout 3. if the writers want SM's they'll have them.. realistic storyline or not.

edited: added dates for reference.

 

[Tremer]

i think is posible to have SM in nv for the reasons above (it dint pass a long time and mutant travel), but i expect to be few and stronger than in FO3

 

[cratchety ol joe]

I'd have to agree, I'd like to see SM become what they were in previous games.. something to be feared. I was VERY sad in Failout 3 when at level 3 I defeated a group of 3 SM's with a baseball bat (and they had guns)

In previous games anything short of a power-armoured squad of heavily armed individuals was a suicide battle (I recall the instadeaths I suffered many a time... heck one time a SM with a minigun killed me, my two companions, dogmeat AND 2 hubologists behind me!).

I want to see a SM on screen and KNOW I have to run the other way or face up to the inevitable 'last save re-load' even the 'behemoths' of FO3 were puppy's the only real fight is if you found 2 or more 'overlords' simply as they had the hit point buffer and some decent guns.

Super < that's an important part of their naming... they aren't called slightly-better-than-average mutants.

 

[Herr Mike]

In previous games anything short of a power-armoured squad of heavily armed individuals was a suicide battle (I recall the instadeaths I suffered many a time... heck one time a SM with a minigun killed me, my two companions, dogmeat AND 2 hubologists behind me!).

What? How did you ever make it past Necropolis?

 

[Mistrz]

In previous games anything short of a power-armoured squad of heavily armed individuals was a suicide battle (I recall the instadeaths I suffered many a time... heck one time a SM with a minigun killed me, my two companions, dogmeat AND 2 hubologists behind me!).

What? How did you ever make it past Necropolis?

It`s irrelevent and he is right. F3 Super Mutants were pure laugh. Even stupid kids from Big Town were able to Stop them!

I want them to pose a threat like in F1/2/T (in Tactics first apperence of SM`s was very painfull wake up), and I want to have the ability to make contact with them. Two mutants in F3 you could have had verbal contact with, weren`t enough.

 

[Slaughter Manslaught]

(in Tactics first apperence of SM`s was very painfull wake up),

Very true. Preoria and the first Super Mutant mission were serious wake-up calls. I remember Super Mutant encounters in FO2 make Ironman players burn with sheer hate. Death by rocket launcher or minigun for the win.

 

[Paladintaco]

I'd have to agree, I'd like to see SM become what they were in previous games.. something to be feared. I was VERY sad in Failout 3 when at level 3 I defeated a group of 3 SM's with a baseball bat (and they had guns)

In previous games anything short of a power-armoured squad of heavily armed individuals was a suicide battle (I recall the instadeaths I suffered many a time... heck one time a SM with a minigun killed me, my two companions, dogmeat AND 2 hubologists behind me!).

I want to see a SM on screen and KNOW I have to run the other way or face up to the inevitable 'last save re-load' even the 'behemoths' of FO3 were puppy's the only real fight is if you found 2 or more 'overlords' simply as they had the hit point buffer and some decent guns.

Super < that's an important part of their naming... they aren't called slightly-better-than-average mutants.

what difficulty lol i bet you cant do that on very hard

 

[Ravager69]

what difficulty lol i bet you cant do that on very hard

Normal would be my guess. Being able to slaughter 3 meters-high monsters no problem with barely any protection and weaponry is a pure laugh.

In Fallout 1\2 meeting a hostile, armed super mutant without at least a combat armor and a solid gun (like a laser rifle, combat shotgun, flamer or rocket launcher) usually meant quick and painful death, no matter the difficulty. Even if you were level 20, you couldn't kill an armed-to-teeth mutant, while wearing a leather armor and only with a shiv or a baseball bat. It is possible in Fallout 3 to destroy dozens of them with a hunting rifle and in a metal armor.

As far as I know, though, New Vegas' SM will be tough enough to keep you at bay until higher levels. I am curious if they'll be remnats from Master's army, on the other hand,

 

[Lexx]

Even if you were level 20, you couldn't kill an armed-to-teeth mutant, while wearing a leather armor and only with a shiv or a baseball bat.

Are you sure? Crit into the eyes or groin. Make him fall to ground, then jump further up to him. On level 20, with the right perks... I'd say it's pretty much doable.

 

[Mistrz]

Being able to slaughter 3 meters-high monsters no problem with barely any protection and weaponry is a pure laugh.

Not for Lone Wanderer, he is such badass that only a baseball bat and his jeans vault suit are needed for him to take out SM

 

[cratchety ol joe]

To answer earlier question I only play FO:3 on hard... and even then anything short of 3x SM Overlords is a joke, I can happily dispatch SM's in FO:3 with a tire-iron and not even THINK about incoming damage.

My most recent SM encounter which prompted me to say out loud "oh my.." was 3x SM Overlord (with around what a quarter bazillion HP's each?) one with a gatling laser, one with a Missile launcher and the other with frags and tri-beam (which do like 10x damage when a SM uses them, but offer a pretty light show if I use one..)

Initially I was concerned as I was stood in front of some of the many wasteland 'explode-a-cars' and even at the hefty L43 (yay mods!) i knew these cars hurt a little, so I dispatched them using the I win button otherwise known as 'fat-man' just for the sake of I had it in my inventory and knew I was carrying about 50 mini-nukes.

So.. yes, I play on hard, and even so, SM's are just pathetic in FO:3. as was mentioned above, In Fallout lore, a SM or a small pack of SM's is reason for most other opponents to slit their own throats rather than suffer another humiliating death by 'rocket/flamer/minigun/plasma' only higher level Player characters with some good hardware had a chance... and even then, it was a CHANCE of surviving intact.

*edit* for sake of clairty, I'm tempted to character edit some characters for Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 give them all the same benefits/equipment and FRAPS some video's to show the outcome. quite frankly though I don't think such things should be required.

 

[Gaddes]

To answer earlier question I only play FO:3 on hard... and even then anything short of 3x SM Overlords is a joke, I can happily dispatch SM's in FO:3 with a tire-iron and not even THINK about incoming damage.

My most recent SM encounter which prompted me to say out loud "oh my.." was 3x SM Overlord (with around what a quarter bazillion HP's each?) one with a gatling laser, one with a Missile launcher and the other with frags and tri-beam (which do like 10x damage when a SM uses them, but offer a pretty light show if I use one..)

Initially I was concerned as I was stood in front of some of the many wasteland 'explode-a-cars' and even at the hefty L43 (yay mods!) i knew these cars hurt a little, so I dispatched them using the I win button otherwise known as 'fat-man' just for the sake of I had it in my inventory and knew I was carrying about 50 mini-nukes.

So.. yes, I play on hard, and even so, SM's are just pathetic in FO:3. as was mentioned above, In Fallout lore, a SM or a small pack of SM's is reason for most other opponents to slit their own throats rather than suffer another humiliating death by 'rocket/flamer/minigun/plasma' only higher level Player characters with some good hardware had a chance... and even then, it was a CHANCE of surviving intact.

*edit* for sake of clairty, I'm tempted to character edit some characters for Fallout, Fallout 2, and Fallout 3 give them all the same benefits/equipment and FRAPS some video's to show the outcome. quite frankly though I don't think such things should be required.

More or less this. I remember when I first ran into a SM on very hard in FO3, I was a bit hopeful that it would provide some form challenge, but thanks to VATS and a few stimpaks, I sent him packing. I'm hoping that New Vegas brings back tough Super Mutants.

 

[Tagaziel]

Ok, so in FO2 the majority of the supermutants are dying off, correct?

No. FEV-II increases cell regeneration speed so that it far exceeds cell degeneration rate, giving practical immortality. The problem lies with brains - supermutants are not immune to elderly age diseases, like dementia.

Of course, some are more resistant than others and may have retained some of their sanity and intelligence,

 

[Alexandthis]

ye they get bigger as they get older like the behemoths are old fuckers, but is it just me or did anyone realy want to play as a supermutant. like nobody has made any mod for that. not that i cud get it either i play it on the console

 

[BOS Man]

In response to OP, the beauty of sequels is that the writers can create new developments to keep the story going. Yes, Super Mutants are rare now, but who's to say that there aren't more Vats out there? The Master's army was headed east, maybe they found another facility with new Vats. I'd like to see the master now revered as a martyred messiah, and the mutants look to carry on his work. What else could their plan have been? Random and senseless destruction for no purpose? If they did find new Vats across the states, then it stands to reason that we'll have a good supply of supes for some time.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Honestly people, I am not bringing this up to annoy you, but THERE ARE NO MORE VATS!

West Tek, the place where they started the Pan Immunity Virion project and created FEV1 is a radioactive crater.

Mariposa Base where they refined the stuff and created FEV2 is also gone and won't be rebuild.

Even though most of FOBOS is crap at least it mentioned the Super Mutants' attempt to find a cure for their sterility.
However the cure was a dud, the stuff didn't cure anything, it only caused a greater level of mutation.

The Super Mutants did an attempt of their own in Tactics to create a cure, even their best scientists who had worked with the Master, probably the smartest mutant ever, were no able to create a cure.

Except for that group of Enclave captured workers there won't be more Super Mutants.

There is only this generation of Super Mutants, and Ghouls for that matter, there won't be any more because all attempts at solving the reproduction problems have failed or had an incredible high failure rate (Van Buren).

 

[cratchety ol joe]

To touch on both previous posts, at the revised end of FO3, paladin Tristramcakes, or whatever his name was.. the guy that takes over the pryde for a while... anyway, whatever his name, He says in one of his little conversation pieces (around when he gives you the blood sampler thingy) he says something to the tune of:

"the supermutants are multiplying at an alarming rate..."

What the hairy fuck?! multiplying?! where? how? what the fuck are you on about Paladin Tedious-plot??

This is just shockingly poor game 'cannon' and its clear that the writers of FO3 do not understand the history of the SM...

This may be only a tiny snippet of information, but to me it speaks volumes of what the creators of FO3 see in SM's ... and to simplify my otherwise ranty bit that would normal be here...

Orc's ...

sorry folks had to edit this, due to photo-fuckit, delorting my picure

 

[BOS Man]

@The Dutch Ghost
I'm fully aware of this. I was just suggesting that with new sequels anything can happen. I mean, Fallout 3 introduced a new FEV development facility. While you may not agree with Bethesda's method, it just proves that such things are possible. So the Vats are gone, but what if one of these Super Mutant scientists figures out how to create more FEV goo? Fallout tends to jump decades at a time between sequels, so sooner or later they will need to find a way to make more Super Mutants. The discovery of new Vats was only one possibility. The Master's army was led by super geniuses who are all intent on finding a way to continue the existence of their race. They WILL find something eventually because I highly doubt that any Fallout developer will allow the Super Mutants to die out entirely.