The ambiguously gay Legion

That link you posted is very insighful into this topic. Its wierd, in sexually repressed societies gayness thrives wether in ancient greece or victorian england.
 
The Legion isn't ambiguously gay. Its official policy on these matters is death by crucifixion. Doesn't stop people from having sex, though.
 
Heh exactly you hit the nail on the head Tagaz. Like there have not been "homosexuals" present in either fanatical christian societies or even among the Nazis and other cultures which had very harsh punishment about it. Just because it might be frowned upon does not necessarily mean it does not happen. - You know I am really not surprised for example that they have found today during restorations and repair work in quite a few nunneries child cemeteries hidden behind walls or in other locations. The world definitely is often enough a lot more complex then what it might seem to appear.

by the way for those which think the Roman or ancient Greek culture was "open" in sexuality. That is only half of the truth. Homosexuality if I remember correctly was not openly tolerated. Not among the usual citizens. The difference is just that the ancient cultures had a different understanding of ownership. Meaning slaves had often enough obviously not the same status and have been seen rather as objects then "human beings" or even citizens - One should not forget even a Roman citizen could become a slave which was not rare if he for example could not pay his debts so he would remain a slave for example till he payed them off. So in other words. It is left to the owner what he is doing with his slaves. Which might as well include anything regarding like harsh punishment or solicit sex. The Romans and Greek made also a difference between physical and mental love. Anal sex was seen as wrong but a simple "bond" or "love relation" between males was not seen as something wrong or rare a very strong bond in friends or something which one would call a soul mate. Something that was very common among warriors for example. The Samurai in Japan have been very similar regarding such bonds and relations particularly between the teacher and student as the elder warrior would not only teach the student in matters of fighting and social manners but as well in sexuality. And it was not really a taboo. It was common knowledge. Changed a lot though with the influence of christian missionaries and "reformation" of the Japanese society to get closer with the western definition of morale which has been a lot more strict regarding sexual positions for example. Many western/modern nations today are lot more liberal regarding clear homosexuality then many cultures of the past.
 
At the very least it shows that Caesar really despises gay people a lot. He's not a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim though....

How would the actual Caesar Augustus view homosexuality in the world around him? Ironically enough, it's said that he once served as the "Queen" of some King somewhere that he was trying to secure a deal for Rome with which created a huge scandal.
 
CourierAlex said:
At the very least it shows that Caesar really despises gay people a lot. He's not a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim though....

What teh fuck does that have to do with anything?
I thin kthe Legion frowns upon open homosexuality because they their power lies in their numbers, their numbers depend on reproduction. I think that Caesar is gay himself, sell Arcade to him and se the ending, eh mourns Arcade's death, even thought Arcade HATED his guts, and he is always surrounded by other men in hsi tent, only allowing a Female Courrier to be the first woman to enter, yo uwoudl think a guy liek Caesar would have his little harem or something.
 
Most hatred of gays is due to religion.

In some Muslim countries they hang and torture gay men.

I'm just curious why Caesar hates gays so much and what motivated that.
 
He needs manpower, not sexpower i guess...
Also he knows when Legion kids fight to train they get to mangle each others balls, like Greeks used to.
 
Crni Vuk said:
by the way for those which think the Roman or ancient Greek culture was "open" in sexuality. That is only half of the truth. Homosexuality if I remember correctly was not openly tolerated. Not among the usual citizens. The difference is just that the ancient cultures had a different understanding of ownership. Meaning slaves had often enough obviously not the same status and have been seen rather as objects then "human beings" or even citizens - One should not forget even a Roman citizen could become a slave which was not rare if he for example could not pay his debts so he would remain a slave for example till he payed them off. So in other words. It is left to the owner what he is doing with his slaves. Which might as well include anything regarding like harsh punishment or solicit sex. The Romans and Greek made also a difference between physical and mental love. Anal sex was seen as wrong but a simple "bond" or "love relation" between males was not seen as something wrong or rare a very strong bond in friends or something which one would call a soul mate. Something that was very common among warriors for example. The Samurai in Japan have been very similar regarding such bonds and relations particularly between the teacher and student as the elder warrior would not only teach the student in matters of fighting and social manners but as well in sexuality. And it was not really a taboo. It was common knowledge. Changed a lot though with the influence of christian missionaries and "reformation" of the Japanese society to get closer with the western definition of morale which has been a lot more strict regarding sexual positions for example. Many western/modern nations today are lot more liberal regarding clear homosexuality then many cultures of the past.

Even the way a slave was treated by the romans are somewhat misleading. Sure, slaves were subjected to harsh punishments and abuse, but the last thing a slave owner did was kill them.
And even regarding slaves you had different hierarchical classes, there was the ones only for hard labor, house gardening, fighting, etc (Cannyon Runner is not joking when states being a slave master, those decided in wich function a slave could perform better).

Slaves to keep a house were a luxury that only the rich and powerfull could afford, since the owners had to pay everything for them, like clothes, food, habitation, etc.
A recurring misbehave slave was usually sold for another function, not killed unless was too old or commited a serious crime against the patrons.

Slaves (and vassals by the way) were sometimes more expensive to maintain than a today's worker.

[ ]'s
 
Caesar would have his little harem or something.
That's more telling than anything else. He could have any woman he would want. He's gay, you've convinced me. Makes sense with all his talk about wanting the wasteland to SUBMIT to his WILL. He's like the guy in the video. Hes a "warrior".
 
He may have reproduced for the sake of an heir.

Even in the worst outcome, the Legion is still out there and strong. There's no telling how Obsidian/Bethesda will use them in future titles.
 
CourierAlex said:
How would the actual Caesar Augustus view homosexuality in the world around him? Ironically enough, it's said that he once served as the "Queen" of some King somewhere that he was trying to secure a deal for Rome with which created a huge scandal.

Uuuh... what?

Neither Plutarch nor Suetonius nor the Historia Augusta mentions that happening, so unless you've discovered some miraculous new ancient source, I think that you're misinformed. Perhaps you're confusing Augustus with Julius Caesar, who as Suetonius says in Book One of "The Twelve Caesars"

When Thermus sent Caesar to raise a fleet in Bithynia, he wasted so much time at King Nicomedes' court that a homosexual relationship between them was suspected.

This passage implies that Julius Caesar may have acted as a suppliant to another queen in lustful acts, and may be the event to which you alluded.
 
Quagmire69 said:
That link you posted is very insighful into this topic. Its wierd, in sexually repressed societies gayness thrives wether in ancient greece or victorian england.
Ancient Greece was not in any way sexually repressed.

Plautus: I've read that Julius was called "queen" by his rivals for a homosexual encounter in a number of (modern) histories.
 
brfritos said:
Slaves (and vassals by the way) were sometimes more expensive to maintain than a today's worker.
Hence why there are no more slaves today in most economies. There is the situation with the South and North and slavery made the South poor while the North had a better system with slavery. They simply called them employees and gave them the freedom to be "responsible" for them self. I have no doubt that if it would have been really profitable in the long run ... we might have even today slavery in the one or other "democracy".

The Inquisitor said:
Quagmire69 said:
That link you posted is very insighful into this topic. Its wierd, in sexually repressed societies gayness thrives wether in ancient greece or victorian england.
Ancient Greece was not in any way sexually repressed..
If I remember right I dont know if it is true but I have read once that the godess Aphrodite might have represented even 2 genders. But as said no clue if it is true. There is a lot of things we simply do not know today.
 
The Inquisitor said:
Quagmire69 said:
That link you posted is very insighful into this topic. Its wierd, in sexually repressed societies gayness thrives wether in ancient greece or victorian england.
Ancient Greece was not in any way sexually repressed.

Plautus: I've read that Julius was called "queen" by his rivals for a homosexual encounter in a number of (modern) histories.

That fits in well, but you mislabeled him as Augustus. They're two different people.
 
Its true ceasar was the queen of greece. Not by choice though. He was captured and raped by the king of starta. Its important to note that they called him this not because they thought he was gay, but because they thought he was''nt a real man.
 
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