The core fans

[graysonburrows]

I have read several messages regarding the core fans who dislike Fallout 3.

Just how many core fans are there? Any estimate?

 

[rcorporon]

Sadly, not enough to stop Bethesda.

 

[Apocalypse.]

Here is one more.

 

[verwandlung]

What is your definition of a core fan?

 

[Brother None]

Whatever the definition of core fan be may, there's no logical way at all to even start counting them. I don't think anyone will claim they're a significant number compared to the potential market target of Bethesda's Fallout 3.

 

[Nicole]

I've been lurking here for *years* and only delurked because I'm being stupid in the FO2 expansion. I wonder how many of us do - and how many loathe the direction in which Bethesda has taken Fallout3, yet don't necessarily even read here.

I consider myself a core fan. I loathe everything I've seen about FO3. Real-time I can handle, but I doubt it will work with Fallout. I don't mind first-person (in SS2, Bioshock or HL2, even VTM:BL to some extent) but somehow don't like the way it worked in Oblivion or Morrowind. Beth games bore me because there is no personality, no meaning, no pathos - as with Mass Effect, even missions that should have some emotional value added to them have the feel of FedEx to them. I don't know how they do it.

One of the middle fingers in the face I perceive is the way you're expected to play as a teenager. It's as though Bethesda, aware that the average gamer is in their 30s, is declaring that this is a young (console-bashing, simplicity-seeking) person's game now, and us old farts should just fuck off. (Or is this just the crazed ranting of several years' worth of reading the forums here...? LOL)

 

[Apocalypse.]

Hello Nicole

i basically feel the same way too. Of course everyone has a different story to tell. But i identify myself with the saying "When you think things will get better, they only get worse". The first time i saw the gameplay trailer i was shocked, then i laughed because i believed that not even FPS fans will like the VATS system, the dumb AI or those ridicolous stupid animations. After i read the comments on the gametrailer website i started to cry (no not from outside, i can`t cry because of a game ). To my big surprise, the hype has worked on those people even though they could see that the game has flaws from the trailer. People believe really anything, it`s hilarous. At least those people should be able to count back 2..1.. and maybe they`ll discover the greatness of the series or insta-uninstall it because of the "grafix."

I probably failed to stay on topic, but whats wrong with talking to some "new" old Fallout fans.

 

[Brother None]

Be careful on commenting on the behaviour of people on other sites, we usually prefer not to here. I should note Gametrailers is not the best judge of how much hype works: they tend to be excited by whatever is shown, they're a fairly easy audience. Fallout 3 has received more mixed replies in other places (though disappointingly often the detractors/criticisers of Fallout 3 are written off as "NMA trolls", as if we have the manpower to "send" people everywhere to rag on Fallout 3)

I should probably also note a lot of fears regarding Fallout 3 come not from fans of the originals wondering how it'll live up. The majority of criticism on Fallout 3 comes from disappointed Oblivion fans.

 

[Apocalypse.]

Jeah, i was generalizing. I have this bad habit when most of the people say something/Fallout 3 is amazing i tend to say all of them do just for simplicity. There were some who defended it bravely.

They have spend already so much money on it, it would be funny for me if they fail to sell it.

 

[Moving Target]

I should probably also note a lot of fears regarding Fallout 3 come not from fans of the originals wondering how it'll live up. The majority of criticism on Fallout 3 comes from disappointed Oblivion fans.

And that's mainly because, as you said, original Fallout fans are in the relative minority, compared to Oblivion fans.

I was one of those FO1/2 fans who was really looking forward to the game. I truly believed it was possible that Bethseda could have pulled it off. Yet they haven't proved it, at all. Not even graphically, for a lot of people- as in, those previewers not blinded by the hype.

Hell, even some of the previewers who WERE blinded by the hype would occasionally sneak in a "yeah, this build looks sort of ugly, the animations kind of suck" in between their "...but don't worry, it's gonna be the BEST GAME EVER!!!!!"

The odder thing is, all the stuff in the game would bother me much less if it wasn't considered part of the Fallout universe. I know, I know, that makes me one of the incoherent ravening lunatic fringe NMA mole fans, but frankly I don't care. It's idiotic that a company should buy the license of a series to which they have no intention of keeping true.

Perspective is only part of the equation. So's turn-based combat. Another is that the company's looking at Fallout 3 more from a standpoint of a freeform roaming LARP than a story-driven PnP.... and then there's the changes in lore, location, goofy weapons, factions in Fallout that look and act suspiciously like their previous games' factions and monsters.... yea, the list goes on a while.

Yet, if it was just a generic PA shooter with stats.... I dunno, I'd probably keep an eye on it, but the oddball design decisions wouldn't seem quite so painful.

 

[Phancypants]

Perspective is only part of the equation. So's turn-based combat. Another is that the company's looking at Fallout 3 more from a standpoint of a freeform roaming LARP than a story-driven PnP....

I don't get calling it a LARP. Am I missing something? LARP = Live Action Role Playing, right?

Did I miss the a bit of a quest? To kill off a raiders camp do you need to dress up in a stupid outfit and annoy people in a public park, while looking like the biggest douchebag possible?

 

[Tel Prydain]

I fear to post. Seriously, I do. Anyway…..

I think that Fallout 1 & 2 are my favourite games of all time. I say ‘think’ because it varies depending on my mood at any given time. Baldur’s Gate is great for traditional epic exploration, Planescape has the best story, Neverwinter Nights is great for replicating DnD online with friends, Icewind Dale is a great hack ‘n Slash and Ultima (specifically 5-8) has had the biggest impact on my life. But at the end of the day I have to come back to Fallout because of the great way that your choices have repercussions far beyond the obvious. A choice you make in one location may have repercussions for people or whole towns.
And at the end of the day I value roleplay – that chance to make real meaningful decisions. Arcanum was a noble attempt to recreate that attribute, but while worthwhile it still fell short of Fallout.

I consider myself a core fan. I was a big enough Fallout fanboy that the FO2 dev team sent me a signed ‘Geko in a Can’ collectable. I’ve played every worthwhile RPG game made, as well as quite a few that were worth no one’s while…. But I just cannot relate to the bitter unrelenting cynicism and pessimism that emanate from certain members of this forum.
We would all love to see the Interplay/Black Isle do a Fallout 3, but Interplay is gone and it isn’t coming back. We can all hope to high-heaven until our ears bleed, but it isn’t happening.
And as long as we acknowledge that our preference is impossibility we must then consider Bethesda’s position. If they were going to try and ‘clone’ the original games they will inevitably fall flat. I’ve seen some of the ‘core fans’ fan-fiction and add-ons, and they tend to be well meaning but ultimately hollow – and I sincerely doubt that Bethesda could do much better.
As long as Bethesda are running the show (admittedly I’d rather see Obsidian or Bioware at the helm, but they aren’t) I’d rather that they make the kind of game that they are good at, at try to honour the spirit of Fallout, then clone something they couldn’t possibly reproduce.
I might be sure that Fallout 3 will not reach the heights of it distinguished forbearers, but I will try to enjoy what they are able to offer and if they are able to incorporate that level of meaningful choice I’m sure it will be a fine game.

I have enjoyed the great RPGs, but I acknowledge that more recent games have a lot going for them too. I enjoyed The Darkness and Bioshock, and even Mass Effect was a great *start* of a game (although who knows how it’ll finish).
I guess I’m just asking people to keep an open mind. I know it’s not going to be the Fallout I loved, but it could make be fall in love all over again…. Or it could suck. But I’ll give it that chance, because there is nothing more likely to kill a game then going into it with the intent to it-pick.
The ironic thing is that I remember that a there was a lot of similar complaints aimed at Fallout 2 after it came out – it was hardly a bug-free experience that was 100% true to the original… but it turned out alright when people gave it a chance. Lets just wait before writing it off altogether.

 

[rcorporon]

I’d rather that they make the kind of game that they are good at, at try to honour the spirit of Fallout, then clone something they couldn’t possibly reproduce.

The problem here is, what kind of game are they good at?

I was a huge Morrowind fan, and thought that they were good at the FPP RPG style of game.

Then Oblivion came out, and proved to me that they weren't even capable of building on the success of Morrowind.

What chance does FO3 have on building on the "success" of Oblivion?

 

[Tel Prydain]

what kind of game are they good at?

It’s not really a question at all.
Obviously their games have a massive scale, but tend to be extremely shallow.
I’d rather see the series go to Bioware or Obsidion who still have a different style, but are much closer to the original Fallout’s RPG style and have worked with Interplay/Black Isle in the past. However we have established that this is not an option.
Bethesda have noted that they are focusing on less NPCs, but having NPCs be more meaningful – and that will go some way to help. But I will wait to see how they do.

I was a huge Morrowind fan, and thought that they were good at the FPP RPG style of game.

I was really more into Neverwinter Nights at the time. The early version of NWN was way more limited then what it is now, but we had two DMs that could make it jump through some hoops. Great times online.

Then Oblivion came out, and proved to me that they weren't even capable of building on the success of Morrowind.

What chance does FO3 have on building on the "success" of Oblivion?

I fully admit that the game could well be massive turd. But if you go into a game with that view at the forefront of your mind, you're going to spend the whole time nit-picking and the game will have no chance. I can tell you 100% that some folk here will have the game even if it's okay, because they'll be way too busy muttering about one or two details instead of taking in the whole thing.

As to Oblivion being unable to build on Morrowind… that’s debatable. I think they made the game they wanted to make. I’m not sure we can say whether or not they could have built on Morrowind if that was their aim.
Oblivion wasn’t a bad game, and I put in well over 100 hours because it was a launch title in New Zealand. But it wasn’t what I would normally consider an RPG. Your choices didn’t matter, most of the NPCs were cloned sign-posts and there was really no way you could effect events.
The most annoying thing for me was 1-piece armour. Morrowind wasn’t much in the way of an RPG, but I really enjoyed patching together suits of armour and Oblivion nixed that. But having said that, my wife can play Oblivion and can’t stand Morrowind.

So, the idea that thy stuffed up Oblivion is, in my view, incorrect – although they certainly took it in a direction I didn’t like. Conversely, Oblivion proves that if they have a design in mind they can make a game that matches what they want to see.
The REAL questions are, how serious are they when say they want to honour the spirit of Fallout, what do they think the spirit of Fallout is and can they actually pull it off?
I see FO3 as a massive coin flipping in the air – it could go either way.

 

[JESUS]

No way the coin has landed a long time ago, just by looking at the recent info you can see how this game will turn out to be.
When i went to play Oblivion, borrowed from a friend, he said if I like rpgs forget this, play as you will a action game, hack and slash.
I patched the crap out of Oblivion and still after completing it the game felt cheap to me, i could not even begin the expansion.

Maybe you are right most people here will buy Fallout 3, maybe i would buy it sooner if this was a dry season for games, but with so many great games coming out, Fallout 3 is at the bottom of the list for me.

 

[Bionicpope]

I patched the crap out of Oblivion and still after completing it the game felt cheap to me, i could not even begin the expansion.

You didn't even try the expansion? It was amazing, had a great sense of humor to it.

 

[Tel Prydain]

I patched the crap out of Oblivion and still after completing it the game felt cheap to me, i could not even begin the expansion.

You didn't even try the expansion? It was amazing, had a great sense of humor to it.

Shivering Isles was awesome.
Too bad the rest of Oblivion wasn't more like that, really.

 

[Tel Prydain]

No way the coin has landed a long time ago, just by looking at the recent info you can see how this game will turn out to be.

No. No you can't.
But playing the demo you can see a little of what it will be like. Obviously most of us won't get that chance.

When i went to play Oblivion, borrowed from a friend, he said if I like rpgs forget this, play as you will a action game, hack and slash.

Well, that's just dumb - 'cause a Hack 'n Slash RPG is still an RPG.
But it does contain few of the RPG elements I really enjoy.

I patched the crap out of Oblivion and still after completing it the game felt cheap to me, i could not even begin the expansion.

Cheap? Is that really the word you're looking for?
Hollow, streamlined, shallow.... they all are complaints that I've heard before. But cheap?

Maybe you are right most people here will buy Fallout 3, maybe i would buy it sooner if this was a dry season for games, but with so many great games coming out, Fallout 3 is at the bottom of the list for me.

That's cool. Won't make me enjoy it any less. And prehaps if you come back without the hype and with an open mind you'll be able to find more to enjoy.
(On a different note... other then Spore, what other 'great games' are coming out?)

 

[Sander]

Don't double post.

Also, why wouldn't you be able to judge a game by the information given out as *promotional material* by the developing company. If anything, that would give an overly positive impression.

 

[Bionicpope]

Don't double post.

Also, why wouldn't you be able to judge a game by the information given out as *promotional material* by the developing company. If anything, that would give an overly positive impression.

Because how much information can you really gather from some pictures, and maybe ten minutes of video? Now if the game was only twenty minutes long, then you could judge it. To judge it beforehand and act as if it is going to suck, when in all truth you have little to no hands on time with the game is just presumptuous.