Thoughts on Undertale?

[DelGT]

I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on it. Personally I found it to be a fun, charming, and well written pseudo-RPG that really gave me a new perspective on RPGs and games in general. Consistently managed to surprise me throughout. One of the better games I've played in a while.

Didn't like how some of the characters were obvious Tumblr bait, though. Also felt that pacing in the first half was very poor.

What do you guys think?

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

Didn't like how some of the characters were obvious Tumblr bait, though.

^x100

Generally I wasn't a fan of the bullet hell gameplay.
The "pacing" issue you listed may have been the reason why I returned the game with 1h53min so I could get a refund.
Wasn't impressed with the visuals- I thought there wasn't an actual art style- the backgrounds were plain, as were most of the characters.
Not a fan of its style of humor.
Everything else though- music and competent writing, was a ok.

If you liked it great. I say the same for Fallout 4, but I know criticisms I have of Undertale are very subjective. The thing is with these games is I don't want to pirate from an indie dev- but I can only play 2 hours and get a refund, so there's a dilemma. I didn't experience the ending, although to me the whole "the ending you get in your last playthrough affects your next one" was a stupid gimmick. If Dishonored turned around at the very end and said "even though you cured the plague you killed a bunch of people in your other playthroughs so here's a bad ending" I would've been pretty fucking confused.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on the ending system though.

 

[DelGT]

^x100

Generally I wasn't a fan of the bullet hell gameplay.
The "pacing" issue you listed may have been the reason why I returned the game with 1h53min so I could get a refund.
Wasn't impressed with the visuals- I thought there wasn't an actual art style- the backgrounds were plain, as were most of the characters.
Not a fan of its style of humor.
Everything else though- music and competent writing, was a ok.

If you liked it great. I say the same for Fallout 4, but I know criticisms I have of Undertale are very subjective. The thing is with these games is I don't want to pirate from an indie dev- but I can only play 2 hours and get a refund, so there's a dilemma. I didn't experience the ending, although to me the whole "the ending you get in your last playthrough affects your next one" was a stupid gimmick. If Dishonored turned around at the very end and said "even though you cured the plague you killed a bunch of people in your other playthroughs so here's a bad ending" I would've been pretty fucking confused.

I wouldn't mind hearing your thoughts on the ending system though.

The ending system in Undertale, to me, is one of the selling points. It's not really like how you explained it with the Dishonored example. There's only really one character, Flowey, who actually remembers what you've done in different saves and "timelines" (playthroughs). There's another that I won't spoil (because I highly recommend playing through the 3 endings) that simply recognizes the existence of yoour ability to reset and save.

The endings themselves aren't affected by your other playthrough decisions, but you will get some different dialogue throughout. For example: if you kill Toriel, but then reload your last save and spare her, Flowey will tell you "I know what you did...you killed her." Little things like that are affected.

But the endings themselves ultimately are more or less based on who you decide to kill or spare. Actual dialogue and events within the game and characters are affected by all the other choices offered.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

The endings themselves aren't affected by your other playthrough decisions, but you will get some different dialogue throughout. For example: if you kill Toriel, but then reload your last save and spare her, Flowey will tell you "I know what you did...you killed her." Little things like that are affected.

Yeah but why?
It's just a gimmick and people treat it as a selling point. It has no reason to be there and wouldn't take away from the experience if it was absent. It's like breaking the fourth wall, but then taking it too far. It doesn't make the game any better or worse, it's just something I disagree with and it's a relatively small nitpick considering I hate the core gameplay.

 

[DelGT]

Yeah but why?
It's just a gimmick and people treat it as a selling point. It has no reason to be there and wouldn't take away from the experience if it was absent. It's like breaking the fourth wall, but then taking it too far. It doesn't make the game any better or worse, it's just something I disagree with and it's a relatively small nitpick considering I hate the core gameplay.

It's not entirely a gimmick to me due to the fact that it plays off of the meta-narrative revolving around breaking the norms of typical RPGs. In many other RPG, characters dont recognize specific actions the player has performed, and it adds to the underlying narrative actually explaining these norms like saving and resetting.

The pacifist and genocide endings go pretty in depth with this "gimmick" and it makes for some surprisingly thought provoking storytelling, at least in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

I liked it a lot, and the actions you do really come back to you in dialogue and makes you feel like a sick bastard, especially when in Genocide.
What I did not like were the Genocide boss fights (you know which). It was bullshit hard, and that's coming from a Dark Souls player. Walling off the end of the playthroughs was fine maybe thematically wise, but the challenge should have been replaced with something else, like a badass puzzle or something.
It's fandom is the fucking worst, they are just crazy. In such an objective game, being called out for not liking it or some aspects of it means death sentence, and not in the NMA myth way.
Tumblr bait is very accurate, as the characters in that group I liked the least. And not to mention the ones ruined by it. Hello sans
It was a nice tribute to the RPG as a genre, toppling most tropes and twisting them. Playing Chrono Trigger again a while later was funny.
For some reason, the starting level is a bit ugly and tiresome, I know it was the first version of the game, but it killed it prematurely for a lot of people.

 

[Garbagecrone]

Toby Fox is a weeb and the game trying to make you feel bad for playing it more than once is stupid. The music's pretty dope though.

 

[Deleted member 93956]

Yeah but why?
It's just a gimmick and people treat it as a selling point. It has no reason to be there and wouldn't take away from the experience if it was absent. It's like breaking the fourth wall, but then taking it too far. It doesn't make the game any better or worse, it's just something I disagree with and it's a relatively small nitpick considering I hate the core gameplay.

Thing is, depending on the order you make them, it makes a story on its own. Trying a Genocide after Neutral+Pacifist makes you feel like a baby strangler, everybody happy and fine and you go and ruin everything for your own pleasure.
Or do the Genocide first or second, and it becomes a story of redemption, but everyone does have some feeling left of past events and you'll get despised among lines.
It was a helluva NG+ I tell you that

 

[DelGT]

What I did not like were the Genocide boss fights (you know which). It was bullshit hard, and that's coming from a Dark Souls player. Walling off the end of the playthroughs was fine maybe thematically wise, but the challenge should have been replaced with something else, like a badass puzzle or something.

I agree it was so difficult, but I believe that is should be that way. The point of the difficulty in the last fight is to basically get you to quit, because the boss knows about the saves and timelines, he knows there's no way for him to beat you unless he gets you to just give up.

But it took me 3.5 fucking hours to do. It was fun but seriously stressful at the same time, I agree.

It's fandom is the fucking worst, they are just crazy. In such an objective game, being called out for not liking it or some aspects of it means death sentence, and not in the NMA myth way.

Completely agree. Worst fanbase of any game, period. At least the Fallout fanbase can hold some civil discussions to the good and bad of the games, the Undertale fandom don't give any proper reasoning to why they like it, and any criticism is buried with nonsensical dicksucking. Luckily Toby recognized this and addressed it in a post about the first anniversary. Hes a pretty humble guy.

Thing is, depending on the order you make them, it makes a story on its own. Trying a Genocide after Neutral+Pacifist makes you feel like a baby strangler, everybody happy and fine and you go and ruin everything for your own pleasure.
Or do the Genocide first or second, and it becomes a story of redemption, but everyone does have some feeling left of past events and you'll get despised among lines.
It was a helluva NG+ I tell you that

You ever see what happens when you do a pacifist after a genocide ending? Basically, it turns your good intentions into a major fuck up. That's all I'll say.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

It's not entirely a gimmick to me due to the fact that it plays off of the meta-narrative revolving around breaking the norms of typical RPGs. In many other RPG, characters dont recognize specific actions the player has performed, and it adds to the underlying narrative actually explaining these norms like saving and resetting.

The pacifist and genocide endings go pretty in depth with this "gimmick" and it makes for some surprisingly thought provoking storytelling, at least in my opinion.

K, but it's not "deep storytelling", it's the game reacting to your actions. There's a difference.

the game trying to make you feel bad for playing it more than once is stupid. The music's pretty dope though.

See I agree with Garbagecrone, the soundtrack is pretty good but the ending gimmick is stupid.

Anyway you've made points as to why you like it, but seen as my opinion won't change on the subject how about we leave it?

 

[Vergil]

I don't really play gimmicky meme games so I never bothered with tumblrtale (same reason I never bothered with Five Nights at Freddy's).

 

[DelGT]

K, but it's not "deep storytelling", it's the game reacting to your actions. There's a difference.

the soundtrack is pretty good but the ending gimmick is stupid.

But, aren't these 2 elements; the game reacting to your choices and actions, and the ending being heavily affected by those actions; major components to a great RPG? I mean, by that logic, the ending cutscenes in New Vegas are just a gimmick.

I respect your opinion, and I'm not saying the game is perfect or that you have to like it (that'd make me no better than the tumblrinas), I just don't really clearly see your standpoint on this whole gimmick thing.

 

[Garbagecrone]

But, aren't these 2 elements; the game reacting to your choices and actions, and the ending being heavily affected by those actions; major components to a great RPG? I mean, by that logic, the ending cutscenes in New Vegas are just a gimmick.

I respect your opinion, and I'm not saying the game is perfect or that you have to like it (that'd make me no better than the tumblrinas), I just don't really clearly see your standpoint on this whole gimmick thing.

The difference between the ending slideshows in new vegas and the endings to undertale is that new vegas doesn't have Yes Man show up at the end and tell you how happy the mojave is without you and that you should never play the game again. And choosing Caesar's Legion one run doesn't mean that at the end of yr next NCR run you're implied to be a Legion spy, y'know?

The issue with the gimmick is its meta status, and it comes off as more annoying than ~makes u think~ like the intent seems to have been.

 

[Vergil]

The difference between the ending slideshows in new vegas and the endings to undertale is that new vegas doesn't have Yes Man show up at the end and tell you how happy the mojave is without you and that you should never play the game again. And choosing Caesar's Legion one run doesn't mean that at the end of yr next NCR run you're implied to be a Legion spy, y'know?

The issue with the gimmick is its meta status, and it comes off as more annoying than ~makes u think~ like the intent seems to have been.

b...but...but
Wow it really makes you think!

 

[Walpknut]

I respect what it does but not how it does it. The story is extremely manipultive with everybody being all fluffy and nice, I kind of feel the game is trying to protect me from feeling anything other than safe basically giving no insentive towards playing lethal for any reason other than for doing an evil run.

 

[Chud]

One thing I find odd about the game, is that most of the NPCs and enemies look alright, yet the main character looks ripped from some generic RPG Maker game. So ugly.

 

[SarcasticGoodGuy]

The difference between the ending slideshows in new vegas and the endings to undertale is that new vegas doesn't have Yes Man show up at the end and tell you how happy the mojave is without you and that you should never play the game again. And choosing Caesar's Legion one run doesn't mean that at the end of yr next NCR run you're implied to be a Legion spy, y'know?

The issue with the gimmick is its meta status, and it comes off as more annoying than ~makes u think~ like the intent seems to have been.

I respect what it does but not how it does it. The story is extremely manipultive with everybody being all fluffy and nice, I kind of feel the game is trying to protect me from feeling anything other than safe basically giving no insentive towards playing lethal for any reason other than for doing an evil run.

This is my point. I like C&C.

But like Garbagecrone said if Yes Man were to show up and berate me for doing a Caesar's Legion run before good karma independent it's not "clever", it's just some meta-bullshit. It's fine if you like it, I'd just prefer each playthrough to be unique- not a mishmash of what I've already done. By "reacting" to your choice it locks you out of endings.

 

[CaptJ]

It is fine but usage of singular "they" is retarded. The Genocide run tainting your next playthrough was stupid and the game is too meta for its own good. The game tries brush off the fact that a lot of monsters tried to kill the MC. The true ending can be too mushy and the MC basically having no established life in the surface kinda rigs the player to stay with Toriel. Overall, I liked the game but it seems to mistaken pity for friendship. Seriously, just because I don't want to stab someone in the face doesn't make us friends.

 

[Deleted member 98605]

No real replayability. A heavy handed moral that's shoved down your throat that I don't agree with. Meh characters. Meh story. Terrible, rancid fanbase that abuses lets players to play the game in pacifist mode 'because that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE AND IF YOU DON'T YOU'VE FUCKED UP/YOU'RE HORRIBLE' to overdone 'funny memes', skeleton hoodie guy, anime dinosaur, and terrible, terrible shipping - the robot and the funny aspiring skeleton do not go together just because the skeleton loves their on-screen personality.

So I'm not a fan of it, obviously.

 

[Chud]

No real replayability. A heavy handed moral that's shoved down your throat that I don't agree with. Meh characters. Meh story. Terrible, rancid fanbase that abuses lets players to play the game in pacifist mode 'because that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE AND IF YOU DON'T YOU'VE FUCKED UP/YOU'RE HORRIBLE' to overdone 'funny memes', skeleton hoodie guy, anime dinosaur, and terrible, terrible shipping - the robot and the funny aspiring skeleton do not go together just because the skeleton loves their on-screen personality.

So I'm not a fan of it, obviously.

I'd love to see some smart assed Let's Player do a "Pacifist Playthrough," where they kill everything in sight, yet act as though they're being peace loving about it. "Another monster totally pacified."