Ulysses is kind of a moron...

zegh8578

zegh8578

Keeper of the trout
Orderite
For all his building up, the actual final encounter is a bit of an anticlimax. Nuke everyone?
First of all, the originality of nuking a nuked out wasteland, in order to leave it more nuked out than ever before, wow

Also, yes - the area was nuked before, and it took 200 years to build up the Bear and the Bull (dude, just refer to them as countries, I don't go around refering to Sweden and Denmark as the Köttbull and the Carlsberg), so - what exactly is his big plan? To just re-set everything with another 200 years? I hope he realizes that by then he won't be around to nuke them a 3rd time over...

And I don't get his logic at all... why this "punish everyone" attitude? Because of... suffering? What? Thank god the guy does not run a hospital or anything, he would go around just mercy-shooting everyone and their relatives, hell all of his staff would probably be up next because of some vague dark babble he would come up with on the spot

In fact, the whole premise made me think - what would drive someone to be THAT pretentious?
Like, what would drive me, to buy a lil casette recorder, and whisper into it, "The Meatball and the Beer, same story, old history, new roads walked, a sofa and a table, thought they were the same... not the same... no kött in the bull" then label them, and drop them here and there, lawns, back yards, trash cans, I will *simply assume* that only a fraction of my casettes will be found - BY WHOMEVER IS FOLLOWING ME! WALKING... MY ROAD

I would drop the casette tapes around, I would leave lame lil stencil-tags on walls, and I would find myself an epic dungeon - - - and wait.

The more patiently I wait, the more epic my wait, that's the math of it.
For a year, I will sit there, staring at the door.
For 2 years
For 3

Someone's bound to find my fucking casettes o_-

And after all that
AFTER ALL THAT
Some Swede finally kicks the door down "the jig is up mister! although I'm still completely blank about who you are, what you plan to do, why you plan to do it, and why exactly I've been following all your traces to this stupid little cabin"
"It's not stupid!" I'd reply, and then I would go into the vaguest of detail, and explain all of my vague ideas, leaving the Swede NONE the wiser, except he seems to grap a certain jist of me wanting to destroy Norway, Sweden... and Denmark, all three.

He tells me not to.
Cuz... nations can be created or destroyed - by a single person.
"Kinda like Gandhi, or something?" I say.
"Yeah, sure." he says.
"K." I go.

He wins

I prepared a final casette tape for him, in anticipation of someone coming along, and talking me out of my destructive plans. This tape lasts several agonizing minutes, and as before, leave him none the wiser, my pretentious expression resonnating in his mind, while he listens to my gibberish
 
I thought that it was almost universally accepted that his philosophising is high-school level masturbation shot through a vaseline-smeared lens?

but let's be honesthearts here, Lonesome Road was a hastily slapped on conclusion to the other 3 DLCs and was an excuse to see some sunken cities, pick up the best heavy armor in the game, and introduce the weaponised cuteness that is E-DE MkII. Ironic that the best DLC released in years had one of the most restrictive budgets.
 
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That too, actually, the whole "answers" "explanations" "and so on", none of that helped me.

I prefer the Vanilla identity of Courier, at least this is how I interpret it:
House staked a bet. You, the courier, was his bet. You got shot in the head, and so theres all the irony of bets and odds and all that stuff, I kinda liked that. According to your choices, mr. House bet correctly - or incorrectly! He won, or he lost his bet.
You are only a chip in his game, your background and personal history is not important to the game, but it is left wide open for you to flesh out in your own mind.

By making this "deeper", "darker" "more meaningful", idunno... I felt no more meaning :I
It was just unecesary

Also, I kept lamenting the fact that Hopeville etc was destroyed, wth, would it have killed them to make ONE dlc with an actual community in it!?
Fuckin Honest Hearts stabbed me first with that "Let's go - to New Canaan!" FINALLY :O REALLY!? :O "Yes! LET'S GO!" OMG :O
*ambush*
"oh, New Canaan is destroyed. Here, have a bunch of Suliks!"
D':

(don't get me wrong, I love all the DLCs, they're growing on me, but yeah, some of the writing/logic takes me right back to FO3)
 
He is not "Nuking everyone" he specifically states he doesn't have enough nukes to wipe out the entire NCR or Legion, not even to wipe out the Mojave, his plan is attacking the main trading route of the NCR's campaign on the Mojave, the Long 15. He even says his plan is to cut the troat and bleed it, the campaign on the Mojave will be won by the Legion who he is certain can't keep up the way it is for long. Also his goal is not for his suffering, he just believes that neither faction represents the future of the post apocalyptic america and he rather speed up their eventual implosion on the hopes that something new will rise from the rubble while at the same time taking revenge on the Courier....
 
Walpknut said:
He is not "Nuking everyone" he specifically states he doesn't have enough nukes to wipe out the entire NCR or Legion, not even to wipe out the Mojave, his plan is attacking the main trading route of the NCR's campaign on the Mojave, the Long 15. He even says his plan is to cut the troat and bleed it, the campaign on the Mojave will be won by the Legion who he is certain can't keep up the way it is for long. Also his goal is not for his suffering, he just believes that neither faction represents the future of the post apocalyptic america and he rather speed up their eventual implosion on the hopes that something new will rise from the rubble while at the same time taking revenge on the Courier....
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Yes, I got those details, but he also said to nuke "the west", that sounds a bit more general than just a road.
And I wasn't refering to his suffering, but the suffering of the broken society he wants to... remedy? Wipe out? Reset?

He is being completely irrational. Otherwise - if this was rational in any concievable manner - people would be nuking each others a lot more, wouldn't they?
I mean... how about he get into NCR politics, and try to make a difference in a non terrorist-psychopath way?

I just find him disagreeable!
 
He wants to reset everything because he thinks they are beyond any remedy, he states as much. Why doesn't he do it through their system? Because he doesn't believe in the system, he thinks it's corrupt to the core, and he is kind of right. The legion can't sustain itself for long either in his eyes, not saying he is a super rational individual, but there is logic to his actions and beliefs.
And also reducing his plan to "Nuking everything!" doesn't make sense because he himself states that he explains his plan in detail.
 
Walpknut said:
He wants to reset everything because he thinks they are beyond any remedy, he states as much. Why doesn't he do it through their system? Because he doesn't believe in the system, he thinks it's corrupt to the core, and he is kind of right. The legion can't sustain itself for long either in his eyes, not saying he is a super rational individual, but there is logic to his actions and beliefs.
And also reducing his plan to "Nuking everything!" doesn't make sense because he himself states that he explains his plan in detail.
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Since when is it "kinda right" to nuke someone, because you disagree with their system? I think this is pretty basic: Car bombing, because you disagree is allready absolutely apprehensible... nuking someone, for the same reason, and such a vague reason "they're corrupt", how is NCR corrupt enough to deserve being nuked!? Am I missing something!?

And no, not detail - I just finished playing it, before making the thread about it, so I would be as informed as possible ;D he says he needs to "bleed the bear" by cutting the supply line, that much is true - but couldn't he do that w a bulldozer?
Or...

A car bomb?

Either way, going through all that trouble, to launch nukes, at innocent people (yeah, I counted every mention of his to evacuate the area he means to nuke: 0) - because HE judges them to be flawed... nope, I got no sympathy for him - whatsoever! Being flawed is not reason to utilize nuclear armament, I don't nuke my drawings, I improve them, I don't nuke my pets, I work with them, I mean, come on...

Besides that - besides - reset? But... then it will RESET, won't it? With allll of humanities flaws and errors, the same flaws and errors that plunged USA into nuclear war, the same flaw and error that pits NCR and Legion against each other, he will simply: reset flaw and error, that according to him only deserves to be nuked again and again. He is psychotic!

And on top of all that, he is dissuaded from launching these nukes, by simply telling him that "come on, guy... you dont have to do this" (only in a slightly more pretentious manner, so that he might understand), no conviction! :D If you plan to NUKE people, at least have some real conviction! :D
 
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When did I say it was right to nuke them? I said he is right about the NCR being corrupt and the Legion being frail.

You say you wanted to be as informed as possible but you seem to have completely ignored information the game gives.

Also, no idea if you went to the Long 15 after bombing it, but it is a Military Outpost, he can't destroy it wit ha car bomb or a bulldozer, he would probably get shot down by 20 different flavors of ammo shot by high ranking soldiers. Nuking it is the only way to destroy it and he just found a silo with some of those ready to be launched.

Of course he is not gonna evacuate the place it's kind of the point, he taught the White Legs how to destroy New Canaan he is not a gallant hero that protects the weak, he is interested in the big picture and to him the big picture right now is to wipe the slate clean, he thinsk the NCR and legion will lead to a slow demise to the Post Apocalyptic world so he is just gonna speed it up, he is not claiming he is makign something solid and new, he just preferes reseting things than dooming it to what he believes is the wrong path.

And well you can make all conversations sound dumb if you just say "it's like this more more pretentious". Like saying "All you need to dissude the Master is to be persuasive with words.
 
You're still telling me what I allready knew, but you make it sound so normal. To me, Ulysses is just Osama bin Laden, and nothing else. Bin Laden also ranted about American imperialism and such, so, that's his reason - he's still a complete and utter moron. Well, was.

Ulysses is of the same category, the only reason he only bombs the I15 is because he doesn't have enough nukes to destroy the entire NCR - and that is in-game dialogue info, either way, he wants to destroy it - and all the people in it. Cutting off supplies means he intends for people to starve.
That's a dick move - and it's not his judgement to make! That's my biggest problem with him. If the NCR was so weak, it would fall apart by its own volition, but nobody - no matter how uncorrupt - can safeguard against a maniac terrorist with nuclear missiles. It's completely uncalled for!

In the end, his entire premise remains flawed: He resets society, the same soul, meat and fabric that creates the only thing it CAN create: Fallible, imperfect society. So... he will just keep nuking them, then?
 
When did I state that he wasn't a terrorist? He is nuking an Outpost to bleed the NCR, he is obviously a villain, just stating that your rendtion of both his plan and beliefs is pretty simplistic and at points even outright wrong. You are basically asking "Why couldn't the villain not be a villain?" well because if the DLC was about Ulysses dancing happily about world peace then there would be no conflict? Why didn't the master just respect the wishes of the people of California about not turning into green mutants? Why couldn't the Enclave just not use the FEV to wipe out the entire Core region? Why couldn't Gizmo just make money by helping others?
 
No but here's the thing - the entire time, he entices you with "answers", which is vague allready, I never asked a question, but fine - I'll play along! So I follow his clues, and get more and more curious.

This is not what Enclave or the Master does, this DLC deliberately builds an ambigious image of what/who Ulysses is (as they did with other characters as well, like the Burned Man) - and let me repeat again: His entire conviction is smashed by you simply suggesting to him not to do it, and then he's your friend and helps you defeat the invading "marked men", so... wobbly fuckin terrorist, at that... :D

To conclude, he has nothing on the Master, and I was expecting a comment of "and eventually, he finally grew up" in the end slide info about him

In the end, both you and moosic are right - he IS a blatant dick, but my point is that the blatantness of his dickishness is only apparent towards the very end of that DLC, allowing for different expectations, which I had, the way he was enticing, luring on, about these "answers" and so on..
 
Well, he's not backing down because you're telling him that he shouldn't do it.

You either convince him through his own ideology that launching the missiles is pointless, convince him that with ED-E's upgrades that you carry the original America with you, or through sheer conviction convince him that he could build his own nation and prove the NCR and Legion wrong.

It's not like with President Eden being convinced to commit suicide because nobody voted for him.
 
You convince him to not do it either by using your cunning (Speech skill), by telling himthe right thing after finding all his Holotapes that reveals his personal conflict with what he is doing and with himself, or by convincing him that what you are doing with your selected faction is gonna work (this doesn't work if you are going independent). You are just simplifying it to absurd levels.
 
"I believe that one person can make or break a nation, you allready know this." <--this is it, this is what finally wins him over. I checked, because even after the initial speech check, if you choose other options, you must still fight him.
"You have spoken truly. There is a shadow of a nation behind you, the hope of a people... "

And - he knew this allready!
Then why need me to tell him?
Again, he's an indecisive dick of a terrorist.
 
I think some of you are forgetting that Ulysses is, well, batshit insane due to extremely traumatic experiences. His plan is actually pretty solid, but trying to debate the details of his goals is moot. Of course it doesn't make 100% sense, in fact pointing out the problems in his actions and ideas is one of the ways you can convince him to stop.
 
Walpknut said:
He is not "Nuking everyone" he specifically states he doesn't have enough nukes to wipe out the entire NCR or Legion, not even to wipe out the Mojave, his plan is attacking the main trading route of the NCR's campaign on the Mojave, the Long 15. He even says his plan is to cut the troat and bleed it, the campaign on the Mojave will be won by the Legion who he is certain can't keep up the way it is for long. Also his goal is not for his suffering, he just believes that neither faction represents the future of the post apocalyptic america and he rather speed up their eventual implosion on the hopes that something new will rise from the rubble while at the same time taking revenge on the Courier....
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He wants to nuke entire West... please, dont say anything without quotes.

missiles fell on NCR and the Long 15 caravan route beyond the Mojave Outpost, the road the Courier had been walking when the tale began. Caravans and NCR outposts along the route were reduced to ash, an Old World gift from the Divide.
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The NCR AND Long 15.

The Divide erupted in fire, violent, red as the last message of the two Couriers arced into the sky... The missiles rained like spears down on the land, burning flags and communities alike... destroying all they struck. The history of the West was erased for the second time, thorough and complete... and America slept once more.
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Another quote. "Destroying communities" "history of the West was erased ... FOR COMPLETE..." refering to great war. So not just routes but most cities too.

Next, Avellone was reffering to cleaning/doing reset in the west, so once again, words of developer confirms that nukes will hit cities of NCR.

And the most important, when you're picking your target, console clearly says:

http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/7l/hw/93/o3c1qz.jpg

HEARTLAND, CITIES AND PEOPLE

And at the end of the day, Ulysses actions doesnt makes sense, but he was created as madman in such intention.
 
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