Van Buren vs Troika's untitled post-apocalypric project

[Tiny Tim]

Tim Cain later confirmed that this was supposed to be a sequel to Fallout: "Leonard pursued Fallout 3, which ultimately went to Bethesda, who outbid us

Edit because i accidentally posted before i had finished


So i recently played Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura and Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines by Troika Games and i found them to be intelligent, innovative and brilliant.
And though i don't know as much about Fallout and the people behind it as some of you guys, i generally find Fallout, in which the people who came to found troika (Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Jason Anderson) played a key part, to be overall superior to Fallout 2 in terms of atmosphere and writing. In fact, i found both arcanum and vampires to be -at times- closer to Fallout than Fallout 2.
And though we know nothing about what Troika had in mind for fallout 3, i've read online that they had indeed started working on a fallout sequel.


Now, we know quite a lot about Black Isle's Van Buren, and we know there were cool people involved like Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer and nothing about Troika's project but the fact that it would be made by Troika. Still, lately i find myself more and more been attracted to the idea of a Fallout game by Tim Cain, Leonard Boyarsky and Jason Anderson.

So, which one would you rather have? Which one would have been the truer sequel to Fallout, in your opinion.

 

[naossano]

I wish we could have both.
Van Buren was too much advanced that it was a shame it got cancelled.
Troïka post-apocalyptic rpg could have saved the company...

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I wish we could have both.
Van Buren was too much advanced that it was a shame it got cancelled.
Troïka post-apocalyptic rpg could have saved the company...

How was it 'too advanced'?

Genuinely curious, don't know much about the limits of game tech in the time of Van Buren.

 

[naossano]

I meant it in terms of development progress. They did a lot of work for nothing as it wasn't released.
Didn't intend to say anything about technology in general.

 

[Risewild]

How was it 'too advanced'?

Genuinely curious, don't know much about the limits of game tech in the time of Van Buren.

This is what was already done in Van Buren:

In 2003, the game was canceled and the Black Isle employees were laid off. At that time the engine was about 95% done. You could create characters, use skills, perform both ranged and melee combat, save/load games and travel across maps. A tutorial level was done that would let the designers do all of the above. All areas but one had been designed. About 75% of the dialogue was done and at least 50% of the maps. BIS already had many of the character models and monster models.

 

[Tiny Tim]

Predictably, everyone has voted for the last option, which i probably shouldn't have included for the poll to have any meaning.
I mean, realistically only one of them could have been fallout 3, for legal reasons.

 

[Risewild]

I voted for both, not because any of them would be a Fallout 3 but, because the more post-apocalyptic cRPGs in existence the better.
Also because Black Isle and Troika both made several games I still love to play, so more games from them would be awesome.

While some genres or themes in games get over-saturated, post apocalyptic cRPGs are not yet in that category, so the more the merrier I say.

 

[rogerdv]

I voted for both (like everybody else), but I have to say that i liked much more the Van Buren engine, than the one showcased by Troika. Im not a fan of camera fixed on character for isometric RPGs. Unless we are talking about Diablo, of course.

 

[Tiny Tim]

I have something more to confess actually. I think fallout and fallout 2 looked better than van buren, judging from that footage. It could be just that the 3d graphics of van buren haven't aged well, but i think the classics looked cooler.

 

[rogerdv]

I have something more to confess actually. I think fallout and fallout 2 looked better than van buren, judging from that footage. It could be just that the 3d graphics of van buren haven't aged well, but i think the classics looked cooler.

Yes, it looked ugly, but it was an incomplete/unoptimized engine. I really enjoyed the little demo and Im deeply sorry it never became a game.

 

[naossano]

IMO, late sprite graphic tend to age better than early 3d models... But they were probably much harder to make.

 

[Kohno]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Troika's game going to be realtime with pause... I have a recollection of reading something to that end somewhere, but it's so long ago I can't remember for sure. In that light, in case it actually is the case, Van Buren would be better to have. Still, though, voted for "why not both" because why not.

Anyway, I don't tend to care about graphics, but it's fun how that Troika techdemo from 2004 manages to look better than Fallout 3 from 2008.

 

[Einhanderc7]

To be honest I'm not interested in either. (Objectively making my judgement based on this current time period.)

Both are not that good to look at, Van Buren would still be using Cavalier Oblique Projection (COP) which typically lets the environment block the players view point. Plus if Van Buren were finished now there is a very high chance that it would suffer from similar issues that Duke Nukem Forever suffered from being in development hell for so long. Not to mention that Bethesda currently holds the rights to the IP so we could all fully expect them to rewrite the whole narrative to fit their odd schemes.

This Troikas demo, I'm not really sure what to make of it. The camera lets players rotate 360 degrees which can easily disorient players, the graphics look dated, and that's all I really have to go on. Who knows it could possibly be either the best, or worst game. There is no observation data for me to review in depth.

However let me submit this little tid-bit; why not ditch Van Buren and Troika? Both are muddled by the fact that they are trying to live up to something long gone and demolished. Why not instead collectively begin development of an NMA IP using the resources of the users here to generate the kind of game everyone wants so much?

As long none of the Fallout IP is tied to it, of course. But considering the current state of the IP I doubt anyone really wants to base anything off it anyways, considering most of us consider the current generation of Fallout games to be shovelware.

Rise to the call or don't, either way the Fallout IP is not going to bend over backwards anytime soon to appease us.

 

[Millim]

Well, I'm already kind of throwing down ideas somewhere for my own gaming IP.

I also plan to write a novel set before the first game (it essentially exists to bookmark the idea and world and to give some backstory).

 

[Tiny Tim]

Wow, someone voted for VB instead of both. We have a winner people.