Zippy's Thread
- Thread starter zippy1
- Start date
frosty_theaussie
Still Mildly Glowing
Ad Astra said:
Since we know that turn-based, isometric RPGs differ from turn-based, isometric 4X games, you might want to hold your sarcasm in reserve lest you come off as a jerk.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Prove it. I've seen zero proof for this claim for the shitload it's floated out there and until there is proof that it will sell "very few copies today," it is pure speculation. I can point to many turn-based isometric games that do sell well, lets start with some easy big names like Civ4 and Pokemon, not CRPGs like Fallout but then again, there haven't been any sufficiently large budget games of such type since the 90s.zippy1 said:
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
If they could implement an isometric perspective option which is turn based and you can go between that or realtime it would be a no brainer. Pleasing both types of players. I mean you can simulate that perspective already in F3 view by going in freecam mode. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to accomplish but I'm no expert on programming.
Also I'll mention this right now mainly because it's on my mind currently: GOOD MUSIC! Please this is SO KEY. beth completely let me down with their 'happy/adventure' ORCHESTRAL music! That works for oblivion & morrowind*dee dee dee romping through wonderland* but not a motherf...ing apocalypse! Ok....orchestras do not belong in a post apocalyptic game! This is a shattered world make it sound appropriately. Please do not f...up in that area. Please. If I hear orchestral music ever again in a post apoc game I'm going to snap.
Also I'll mention this right now mainly because it's on my mind currently: GOOD MUSIC! Please this is SO KEY. beth completely let me down with their 'happy/adventure' ORCHESTRAL music! That works for oblivion & morrowind*dee dee dee romping through wonderland* but not a motherf...ing apocalypse! Ok....orchestras do not belong in a post apocalyptic game! This is a shattered world make it sound appropriately. Please do not f...up in that area. Please. If I hear orchestral music ever again in a post apoc game I'm going to snap.
UncannyGarlic
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Cool, I guess it's a good thing that no one has said "CRPGs have to be turn-based and isometric to be good." Considering the number of non-TB CRPGs that folks round these parts like, I think it's fair to say that most people don't believe that. That said, TB was part of what allowed Fallout to do what it did and work as well as it did so naturally it's something that would be expected in a Fallout sequel. Tactics shows that there is potential to adapt it to RT (while also having TB options) but that doing so has a significant impact on the gameplay (which is a no brainer really). I don't think that anyone cares if there is a RT option, in fact I think that most people would be happy to have a well designed RT mode as such, even if they did never use it.Gooscar said:
Regardless, the point was simply that discarding a design direction for unsubstantiated claims that it won't sell (or any variant of that with the same meaning such as popularity) is bogus.
Do you guys ever think that maybe with all the hateful and personal shit you sling at Todd Howard and Pete Hines, maybe the guys at both Obsidian and Bethesda are now, even more than before, purposely avoiding giving you what you want? As they move further away from what the old Fallout used to be and more towards their own revisioning of the franchise, they'll have more freedom to not even mention the first two games at all. Wouldn't that just make you... angry? 
Console games are easier to make (they make the game for two systems, unlike the PC, where they have to deal with hundreds, maybe thousands, of possible configurations and hardware combinations), they sell better, and they're pirated far less. Even better, giving console players a game that's deeper than they are used to results in hugely rewarding sales and nearly universal praise. The alternative? Merely decent sales at best, rampant piracy at worst, and a bitter hatred from the people who can't let things go.Holocausto said:
zippy1 said:Do you guys ever think that maybe with all the hateful and personal shit you sling at Todd Howard and Pete Hines, maybe the guys at both Obsidian and Bethesda are now, even more than before, purposely avoiding giving you what you want? As they move further away from what the old Fallout used to be and more towards their own revisioning of the franchise, they'll have more freedom to not even mention the first two games at all. Wouldn't that just make you... angry?
Nope I don't think that. That'd mean Hines and Howard have the maturity of a 12 year old. They may make stupid design decisions and in Hines' case, come across as incredibly snake-like, but they're not -that- immature.
Of course, I doubt they care what NMA thinks about their games that much, they have their bleating chorus of TES fans and people that don't know any better.
Name one game Obsidian has done that is remotely as successful as Fallout 3.
This story shows that Obsidian had to lay off people. Laying off 20 people at a studio their size shows they were in trouble. It's understandable - Sega wasn't really doing much good for Obsidian, developing like three Aliens games at the same time. That's just unhealthy.
Bethesda may not want the game to be just like Fallout 3, but some of you guys seem almost convinced that Obsidian will make NWN2: New Vegas rather than a game that plays similarly to Fallout 3. I'd buy it if NWN2 had half the sales of Fallout 3 or if there was some kind of credible theory that New Vegas would only be coming to the PC. Which there's not.
Making Fallout 3 in a new setting with new ideas and an entirely new story sounds like perfect sense to me. When you make something good, you make more of that thing. You don't go back to stabbing in the dark trying to figure out how to sell ten-year-old game design to an audience that's diverse enough to have players that were five years old when Fallout 1 was released.
Obsidian won't use Onyx because it is untested on consoles. Unless you guys are somehow thinking this will be a PC-only release. Remember - Obsidian has already developed a console game, and it was pretty damn good considering the ridiculous constraints Lucasarts put on them as far as limiting the scope of the story and the release timeframe.
I'm not mad that you guys don't like Fallout 3. I am just predicting the future and having seen you guys over years hope and wish against all hope that maybe this next Fallout 3 will be like the first game and then get all huffy and puffy when it doesn't is rather amusing. I'm just helping you guys to figure out your opinions early!
This story shows that Obsidian had to lay off people. Laying off 20 people at a studio their size shows they were in trouble. It's understandable - Sega wasn't really doing much good for Obsidian, developing like three Aliens games at the same time. That's just unhealthy.
Bethesda may not want the game to be just like Fallout 3, but some of you guys seem almost convinced that Obsidian will make NWN2: New Vegas rather than a game that plays similarly to Fallout 3. I'd buy it if NWN2 had half the sales of Fallout 3 or if there was some kind of credible theory that New Vegas would only be coming to the PC. Which there's not.
Making Fallout 3 in a new setting with new ideas and an entirely new story sounds like perfect sense to me. When you make something good, you make more of that thing. You don't go back to stabbing in the dark trying to figure out how to sell ten-year-old game design to an audience that's diverse enough to have players that were five years old when Fallout 1 was released.
Obsidian won't use Onyx because it is untested on consoles. Unless you guys are somehow thinking this will be a PC-only release. Remember - Obsidian has already developed a console game, and it was pretty damn good considering the ridiculous constraints Lucasarts put on them as far as limiting the scope of the story and the release timeframe.
I'm not mad that you guys don't like Fallout 3. I am just predicting the future and having seen you guys over years hope and wish against all hope that maybe this next Fallout 3 will be like the first game and then get all huffy and puffy when it doesn't is rather amusing. I'm just helping you guys to figure out your opinions early!
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
zippy1 said:
how about a different game?
Name one game Bethesda has done that is remotely good.
As far as Steam goes: Fallout 3 was still widely distributed and pirated on the PC with minimal effort. Bethesda took the admirable stance of only including a basic CD check and no DRM, but that *still* meant that Bethesda made it easier for pirates to play than legit customers.
The number of console pirates out there pales in comparison to the number of PC pirates.
The number of console pirates out there pales in comparison to the number of PC pirates.
TwinkieGorilla said:
Six: Arena, Daggerfall, Terminator: Future Shock, Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3. Starting with Morrowind they got the reviews and sales to back up my opinions. But that's just my opinion, one I'm sure you'll dispute.
Name an Obsidian game that was a large success both at retail and in critics' eyes.
Not that I'm trying to trash Obsidian - they're great, but part of their lack of success is because they've not been allowed to shine with a great license and the freedom and time to do their thing right. There's a ton of freedom for them to do that inside the Bethesda first-person action/RPG archetype, and Bethesda has shown it's hugely successful. I think Obsidian will make their finest game yet inside that framework. But people here won't be happy anyway, and will heap all their frustrations on Bethesda rather than on the changing winds in RPG gameplay. Even Final Fantasy isn't just turn-based anymore, you know!
TwinkieGorilla
This ghoul has seen it all
first off, wicked-epic lulz at your list. second:
ok, time for another game. let's name a couple games that the people AT Obsidian made:
Fallout, Fallout 2 and Planescape.
zippy1 said:
ok, time for another game. let's name a couple games that the people AT Obsidian made:
Fallout, Fallout 2 and Planescape.
I'm pretty sure these people don't take kindly to realistic looks at what Obsidian will and won't change for an audience like NMA's. Get out of here with your logic and reason.Crni Vuk said:
Obsidian will do their best to tweak the formula and make New Vegas their own but they're not going to significantly change it. They'd be stupid to break away from the overall strategy Bethesda is employing, as it gets them great reviews, tons of sales, and almost universal praise on PC and consoles both.
Holocausto
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Define successful. Here's my product philosophy: As long as a game studio (or any business) makes enough money to pay it's employees & operating costs what's the difference? Is this a race to see who can out sell? It's all relative. A giant co probably needs to sell alot more to sustain their gigantic employee base, a smaller co not as much. What is this fascination with numerical amounts and who has the most? I don't get it.zippy1 said:
I didn't know good ideas had a shelf life and amounted to stabbing in the dark. I guess anything "new" must automatically mean "superior" as well....I mean it's new therefore it has to be "better" right? Really don't get it.zippy1 said: