Cazadors or Deathclaws?

[Ravenholm]

Two of the most annoying things in the Fallout Universe. Even the Super Mutants in Fallout 3 are hard to compare to these two monsters.

Deathclaws and Cazadores. They're both in the same game, and Deathclaws appeared in earlier games. Cazadores can easily take down any low level Courier due to its high damage and poison effects. They're also a pain in the ass to kill due to their high health level. They're very populated in the mountains of Nevada and the Mojave. They were created at Big MT, and were meant to be kept enclosed without breeding.

Deathclaws are huge monsters that can kill anyone, provided they don't have a stash of Super Stimpaks and chems to use. They don't have poison, but their claws can kill just as fast. They also have high health levels and are normally found in packs. Luckily, if you kill the Deathclaw Mother and the Alpha Male, then they'll scatter and forget about you. They can be found in Quarry Junction, around Sloan, the back roads to Vegas, and in the Divide.

Which would you rather have removed from the game? Deathclaws or Cazadores?

 

[zegh8578]

Neither of them really. I have a "bigger problem" so to speak with the cazadores, but that problem is usually solved by not going where they are untill I know I can kick their asses with ease.

Deathclaws are much more confined
Both of them are necesary to the game, imo. Cazadores are possible to encounter almost right away, by ignoring the 2-3 warning signs just north of Goodsprings (huge radscorpions are also encounterable right away)

A friend of mine regarded this as an unforgivable glitch, a mere oversight, the fact that he got into problems for just taking off, blindly into a random direction. I tried to explain to him that this is quite deliberate, and part of the plot almost, since there are 3 roads to Vegas: 1 blocked by Cazadores, 2 blocked by Radscorpions and 3 blocked by Deathclaws, and that this will force him to do the horse-shoe turn south, eastwards, then north. He finally accepted that this was a deliberate device

I really appreciate how they have placed enemy creatures in NV compared to FO3. In NV I can run calmly along roads, and be much more selective about when I want to fight stuff - and when I _do_ want to fight stuff, I must come prepared. The experience of fighting death claws in FO3 and NV is very different, and I prefer them as a rarity that takes a lot of effort to kill, rather than a randomly spawning nuisance I have to waste ammo on.

 

[naossano]

I might be more appropriate to put this thread in the FoNV section.

IMO, the creatures that i would have nerfed are Feral Ghoul Reaver & Albinos Radscorpions in Fo3 with Broken Steel Installed.
There is nothing that justify a regular guy in decomposition to be so much a bullet sponge. Ghouls are supposed to be weaker than regular humans, as their body is in a bad shape. That weakness should be compensated by experience, maybe sight, and radiation related bonus. (healing in irradiated areas, glowing radiation, etc...) That guy that just punch you is as strong as an heavily armored guy or a super-mutant.

Also the albinos radscorpion isn't a boss. He is a just a member of a kind of radscorpion. He shouldn't be able to slaughter entire squad of BOS outcasts.

Cazadores, Super-mutants, Deathclaws, some robots, on the other hand, are already supposed to be stronger.

 

[Ravenholm]

I think that Cazadores a little OP. It's already hard enough that they can tear through you without proper gear and weapons/stimpaks, but their poison just adds onto it. Deathclaws are an all-round part of the Fallout atmosphere. Without them, the game would feel incomplete.

Now, honestly, the thread wasn't created to see if you wanted one or the other removed, it was to see which of them you hated more, if at all. I understand that their mechanics are required in the game, but you gotta hate at least one of them.

 

[Yamu]

I'd have to go with the Cazzies on this one when you frame it as "who do you hate more?" I loathe those things, but it's a loathing I enjoy and, just like Deathclaws, I'm quite happy the insufferable little hellspawn found their way to the Mojave. Outsmarting or sneaking by them at low levels always feels like a true accomplishment, and it's nice to have "lesser" wasteland fauna that's capable of making you fear the reaper. All of the new monsters introduced in F3 with the intent of providing a challenge were patterned on the same "big, beefy shredder" archetype as the Deathclaw. Cazadores are a new kind of threat, with their speed, numbers, and erratic movement patterns adding some interesting variation to combat and actually making VATS/action point management a suspenseful and tactical experience.

 

[naossano]

This thread gives me ideas of off-topic comments, thinking of Dead Money ennemies. Maybe i would be good to have a thread about threats in general.

 

[zegh8578]

Cazadores are a new kind of threat, with their speed, numbers, and erratic movement patterns adding some interesting variation to combat and actually making VATS/action point management a suspenseful and tactical experience.

Speaking of that, and I believe it has been commented elsewhere also - but I use virtually no VATS in NV, compared to FO3 - with a few exceptions! The cazadores are the primary exception, precisely cus of their speed - and the fact that if they reach me, they'll start wreaking havoc on my health, so I will try to pop off a few free-aimed snipes, and once they begin to flock at me - as well as putting tons of trust in whatever companion, I will do a suspenseful wait - untill they are close enough to be VATSed

This usually ends with only 1 or 2 of them finally reaching me

 

[Gizmojunk]

Which would you rather have removed from the game? Deathclaws or Cazadores?

Neither... Unless both, and you replaced them with these:

 

[Mohamed2001]

Which would you rather have removed from the game? Deathclaws or Cazadores?

Neither... Unless both, and you replaced them with these:

*heartattack*

---

I'll go with Cazadores. Claws aren't much of a challenge honestly. And I think Claws are dying out. They're really few in 2281 in the Mojave. Cazadores, however, are a new type of species created by SCIENCE! However, I slew all of their nests, so I don't know if they'll live in generations.

 

[5545Trey]

Which would you rather have removed from the game? Deathclaws or Cazadores?

Neither... Unless both, and you replaced them with these:

This seems disappointingly easy.

 

[naossano]

What about fighting these in the Sierra Madre Villa ?

 

[No Man]

Worst. Fairies. Ever.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I wouldn't want either of them removed. Yes, they are tough, but I like the challenge of taking them on, and few things are more satisfying than building a character who is powerful enough to get past these obstacles, whether through stealth or brute force or tactical firepower or some combination of the above.

If something had to be removed or nerfed than I agree with naossano that it should be the feral ghoul reavers. Those things pack too much of a punch for what is essentially ambulatory roadkill.

I think feral ghouls should be much more rare, and individually rather weak; a lone ghoul or even a small group should pose no challenge to even a low level player. Instead I think there should be a few areas that are densely packed with groups of dozens of feral ghouls that can overwhelm purely because of their numbers, like Romero-style zombies. These areas should be isolated and cramped so the player has no space to run away or pick them off at a distance.

And I think individual non-feral ghouls should always be more dangerous opponents than feral ones, not because of their strength or speed but because of their considerable experience. A crafty, resourceful mutant with rational goals and little regard for human life (i.e. Dean Domino) is a much more interesting opponent than some mindless, slavering zombie.

 

[Walpknut]

Cazadores are pure evil, at leas Deathclaws live in confined places. The road to Bittersprings is absolute evil design, with a layer of Deathclaws and 3 layers of Cazadores.

 

[naossano]

IMO, the feral ghouls should only be dangerous in radiated areas in which they heal over time while you get hurt over time by the same environnent.
They don't need to be stronger, quicker or numerous. They are insane people, not a pack of animals.

 

[TheChosen1]

While I don't want them removed, Cazadores are a pain in the @r$e to hit, they are the only creatures that I am willing to use VATS on. Deathclaws on the other hand are simple, with careful planning and appropriate firepower (AM rifle with explosive rounds), they can be taken down (relatively) easily.

Cazadores are pure evil, at leas Deathclaws live in confined places. The road to Bittersprings is absolute evil design, with a layer of Deathclaws and 3 layers of Cazadores.

What about Nightstalkers?

 

[Walpknut]

Never had too much problems with thme outside of the Big Mt. Also they are sucesptible to Animal Friend so they can easily be rendered neutral.

 

[TheChosen1]

The only reason to take that perk.
Although I have had some personal experiences with them (being assaulted by a whole pack on the road at LV 7)

 

[FOvet]

I. HATE. effing. Cazadores.

I hate them and love them at the same time. They are the biggest most annoying pain in the ass game monster I've ever faced. And at the same time, I do thoroughly enjoy the rush of running into a pack of them and being like "omg, wtf do I do, sheeeeet!"

The problem with Cazzies is that even if you are armored enough to take their freakishly powerful sting, their poison is more than ample enough to kill you. Get yourself surrounded by cazadores and you are screwed, most especially on hardcore mode when stimpacks only heal health over time instead of instantly. THen those little demon spawns bring an entirely new definition of hell to the wastelands.

My problem with both deathclaws and cazadores in New Vegas is, ironically, their scarcity. If you are paying attention to the locations they are found, it is entirely possible to avoid them until you have the gear to take them out...with greatly reduced risk of ending up another bleached corpse in the wasteland. With Fallout 3, one could be wandering and never know when a giant radscorpion or deathclaw would pop up because of the random encounter systems. I LOVED that. I once ran into a couple of guai when I was in Canterbury Commons--they attacked poor Lucky Harith who'd set up for the day. Killed him too

I wish New Vegas had that same Random Encounter system, so you never quite knew when the little critters would pop up.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I wish New Vegas had that same Random Encounter system, so you never quite knew when the little critters would pop up.

I agree, at this point I have all of the spawn points for monsters and ambush spots for raiders virtually memorized, which takes some of the fun out of playing.