Bethesda made Fallout 4 un-fixeable

Lucas9

Lucas9

Still Mildly Glowing
I had a long discussion with another user on Reddit today. He or she claimed that Fallout 4 was an objective improvement on everything over New Vegas, with the exception of the dialogue wheel. Naturally it was a bait I simply couldn't avoid and started replying, on how New Vegas did some things better (mostly writing and quests), how skills and skill checks are great and shouldn't have been removed by Bethesda just because they didn't know how to improve on them, and so on.

Eventually the discussion centered around "choice" and how some choices in New Vegas just aren't important, like getting the dynamite from Easy Pete at the start of the game. I replied that with mods you can easily fix that: make combat more difficult and fast paced, and suddenly having dynamite on your side is a God send.

I've known this for a while but I wanted to say it here: the strengths of New Vegas are things that you can't mod into a game. The flaws of Fallout 4 are things that you can't correct with mods. They are two sides of the same coin: good quests and good writing, and bad quests and bad writing.

Whereas New Vegas can be improved to be much more punishing, difficult, rewarding to individual builds, in Fallout 4 you are stuck with the shit writing and the shit quests, the voiced protagonist and the awful storyline. While you can mod New Vegas to be closer to your tastes, if your tastes are "good writing and quests", you are FUCKED as a Fallout 4 player.

I'm pretty sure what I've just said is obvious, but I wanted to know if anyone here thought of this as well.
 
Majority really plays the games for the gameplay, cannot blame them. And they are to eager mod the hell out of their game to make it more challenging. Of course, it goes into stupidity, since I have yet to see a mod that actually modifies the vanilla quests, let alone adds more quests.

As for New Vegas and it's gameplay/story mods, I like the game as it is. Obviously having flaws, that I seek out mods for it. But when it comes to balancing/making it harder, I argue that Jsawyer's mod makes the best changes for the game. For the writing/quests, I really have no trouble with it. What I do have is with all the uncut mods there is, which I use in addition with it.

However, didn't Someguy make out great quests mods, liek the New Vegas Bounties? Would you consider those as good writing/quests?
 
Valdetiosi said:
Majority really plays the games for the gameplay, cannot blame them. And they are to eager mod the hell out of their game to make it more challenging. Of course, it goes into stupidity, since I have yet to see a mod that actually modifies the vanilla quests, let alone adds more quests.

As for New Vegas and it's gameplay/story mods, I like the game as it is. Obviously having flaws, that I seek out mods for it. But when it comes to balancing/making it harder, I argue that Jsawyer's mod makes the best changes for the game. For the writing/quests, I really have no trouble with it. What I do have is with all the uncut mods there is, which I use in addition with it.
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Yeah, I use JSawyer Ultimate myself and I really like it, though sometimes the game feels a bit easy despite using some extra mods to make the experience more punishing (like Ultimate Illness Mod, something good came out of FO4). I feel that once I have a good armor on me I'm simply unstoppable. Vicious Wastes was nice by making combat fast and brutal to the point that there was always a chance you could die, though it was a nightmare to patch for compatibility with other mods.

Valdetiosi said:
However, didn't Someguy make out great quests mods, liek the New Vegas Bounties? Would you consider those as good writing/quests?
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I have only played a bit of NV Bounties and another bit of The Inheritance, and honestly I didn't like them... The first quest of NV Bounties is to kill a man and bring his finger back to the quest giver. Yet you can't lie to the quest giver by killing a random NPC and taking their finger instead, nor does the quest giver ever tell you "his finger looks like so-and-so so I will know if you are pulling a fast one on me". The Inheritance on the other hand heavily relied on curse words for its main character, which wouldn't be a problem if it didn't came off as the writer not having any idea what to actually write.

That said, it isn't so much about adding new quests, but rather, changing what is already there that's the problem. That I know of, there's only one New Vegas mod that expands on existing quests: Legion Quests Expanded, which uses edited vanilla sound files.
 
Modders had a field day with NFV, most due to it being more open to modding as well much more passion for the game from the fan base.

Fallout 4 however, is for a lack of better words, obscenely difficult to mod due to the way the game is hard wired. Most of the mods you will find for Fallout 4 related to the settlement and minor changes and fixes, but nothing of real meat like you would find for New Vegas. This is due to how difficult it is to get past a lot of the design choices the developers made for the game. Plus why mod something into a completely new game? It really defeats the purpose, as the amount of effort is almost the same as building a game from scratch.

From my perspective Fallout 4 has more in common mechanic wise to the console Brotherhood of Steel game with the way it simplifies everything. Not exactly a Fallout PC title us stubborn old schoolers look for.
 
Lucas9 said:
Yeah, I use JSawyer Ultimate myself and I really like it, though sometimes the game feels a bit easy despite using some extra mods to make the experience more punishing (like Ultimate Illness Mod, something good came out of FO4). I feel that once I have a good armor on me I'm simply unstoppable.
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For me, it depends upon how easy the game should get. Like Molerats or Fiends should be no trouble at end game, but I would still except challenge from Cazadors and Legion/NCR elite squads. So I would find it reasonable that you have easier time with beginner tier encounters and some difficulty with end game ones.

And as far as I'm concerned, Jsawyer's Ultimate Edition managed to provide it.

As for the Legion Quests Expanded, I have not tried it, but it does seem to be promising.
 
Einhanderc7 said:
Modders had a field day with NFV, most due to it being more open to modding as well much more passion for the game from the fan base.

Fallout 4 however, is for a lack of better words, obscenely difficult to mod due to the way the game is hard wired. Most of the mods you will find for Fallout 4 related to the settlement and minor changes and fixes, but nothing of real meat like you would find for New Vegas. This is due to how difficult it is to get past a lot of the design choices the developers made for the game. Plus why mod something into a completely new game? It really defeats the purpose, as the amount of effort is almost the same as building a game from scratch.

From my perspective Fallout 4 has more in common mechanic wise to the console Brotherhood of Steel game with the way it simplifies everything. Not exactly a Fallout PC title us stubborn old schoolers look for.
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Sad as it is, people are too naive and optimistic thinking about modding skills/more perks/quests back into the game. It's not going to happen, not by longshot.
 
Valdetiosi said:
However, didn't Someguy make out great quests mods, liek the New Vegas Bounties? Would you consider those as good writing/quests?
Click to expand...
While the Skyrim/Fo4 mod scenes lean to graphics and attempts at fixing, but porn and babe mods being the constant inhabitant of the homepage, the NV (and Fallout 3 during its relatively short lifespan that then moved on to NV's) mod scene mostly dedicates to quest mods. Are they all not neccesarily good? Hell no. But you can always check on SkyttsTV or even AlChestBreach to see how are the most renowned NV mods that keep coming on.

More fairly; NV's a lot more scrappy with smaller projects and mods worth of a good afternoon or even less. There are great standouts besides Someguys', like Autumn Leaves and many more, but you've got a more evn ground as that goes. You do have big projects like TCs, but they've been a thing of the last year where they seem to be in later stages of development.

Now Skyrim and Fallout 4's aren't bad neccesarily. But instead of passion and ability, their modding scenes are founded in the sheer popularity of these damn games. You have bigger teams, OpenIV ports, in engine remakes and thousands of technical fixes and scripting improvements. You truly can make Skyrim a completely different game by now, Enderal, Path to Elsewhyr or simply a FUCKTON of mods that overhaul even the most basic components like combat and RPG mechanics. It's only mostly pretty lacking in story mods that don't involve more of the same dungeon crawl, and even those are quite scarce.

The impressiosn overall from the top 100s is that it's more ambitious, but normally lacking in substance often. There are insanely talented modders yet. Something as simple as the "Immersive gear collection" almost makes the game doable by themselves.

Now Fallout 4's... Bethesda stepped it on a fair bit. releasing the GECK late to sell their poor DLC that were already outdone by mods, which were called "hacks" by Beth. Also the whole paid and console mods situation didn't do much in favour. That added to what you said, how you can't expel bad programming and even shoddier tools, nevermind the most inherent problems. And the game being a flop for a big part of the fanbase that would both make and consume mods isn't helping.

In the other hand, it IS a young mod scene. It's just crippled for several reasons that we're going to see exposed in this thread hopefully. And I haven't been able to really find what these two years since release have brought to the table.
 
Arnust said:
While the Skyrim/Fo4 mod scenes lean to graphics and attempts at fixing, but porn and babe mods being the constant inhabitant of the homepage, the NV (and Fallout 3 during its relatively short lifespan that then moved on to NV's) mod scene mostly dedicates to quest mods. Are they all not neccesarily good? Hell no. But you can always check on SkyttsTV or even AlChestBreach to see how are the most renowned NV mods that keep coming on.

More fairly; NV's a lot more scrappy with smaller projects and mods worth of a good afternoon or even less. There are great standouts besides Someguys', like Autumn Leaves and many more, but you've got a more evn ground as that goes. You do have big projects like TCs, but they've been a thing of the last year where they seem to be in later stages of development.

Now Skyrim and Fallout 4's aren't bad neccesarily. But instead of passion and ability, their modding scenes are founded in the sheer popularity of these damn games. You have bigger teams, OpenIV ports, in engine remakes and thousands of technical fixes and scripting improvements. You truly can make Skyrim a completely different game by now, Enderal, Path to Elsewhyr or simply a FUCKTON of mods that overhaul even the most basic components like combat and RPG mechanics. It's only mostly pretty lacking in story mods that don't involve more of the same dungeon crawl, and even those are quite scarce.

The impressiosn overall from the top 100s is that it's more ambitious, but normally lacking in substance often. There are insanely talented modders yet. Something as simple as the "Immersive gear collection" almost makes the game doable by themselves.

Now Fallout 4's... Bethesda stepped it on a fair bit. releasing the GECK late to sell their poor DLC that were already outdone by mods, which were called "hacks" by Beth. Also the whole paid and console mods situation didn't do much in favour. That added to what you said, how you can't expel bad programming and even shoddier tools, nevermind the most inherent problems. And the game being a flop for a big part of the fanbase that would both make and consume mods isn't helping.

In the other hand, it IS a young mod scene. It's just crippled for several reasons that we're going to see exposed in this thread hopefully. And I haven't been able to really find what these two years since release have brought to the table.
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It think it was yesterday or the day before that when I decided to see what did the Fallout 4 Nexus page looked like. And just now I've checked it out again. Because saying "they suck" can be misleading, I'll just break it down:

- Eight settlement mods.
- Two body mods (CBBE and GFNM).
- One hair mod.
- One eye mod.
- One female textures mod.
- One mod for modding bodies and outfits.
- Two equipment mods that make edits for compatibility with other mods.
- Two weather mods, one for darker nights.
- One dialogue mod that shows what you are saying.
- Three texture mods.
- Three bugfixing mods.
- One for craftable Legendaries.
- One for craftable stuff.
- One craftable ammo.
- One radio mod.
- One cheat mod for easy terminal hacking.

6 mods, 20% of the Nexus hotfiles, are dedicated to how your character (FEMALE character, tough luck if playing male) looks like. In addition, look for "CBBE" in and you will get 16 pages of results. An analogous search for New Vegas ("Type" and "T6M") yields only 12 pages. The word "preset" yields 2 pages of results in New Vegas. In Fallout 4? Twenty-seven. Eight mods, over 25%, are related to settlements. 10% is dedicated to bugfixes. So that's already 55% of mods that either should have been there or stuff that the player interested in the RPG mechanics has no use for.

Now, I'm not a liar and I'm not obtuse either: out of the 30 mods in the New Vegas front page, I only use about 33% of them

- Project Nevada (Core Module only)
- The Mod Configuration Menu
- New Vegas Anti-Crash
- New Vegas Stutter Remover
- Wateland Flora Overhaul
- 4GB Fallout New Vegas
- The Weapon Mod Menu
- New Vegas - Enhanced Camera
- Interior Lighting Overhaul

As well as variations of other mods

- Realistic Wasteland Lighting
- Type 3/T6M Female Bodies
- New Vegas Character Expansions
- DarnUI
- Simple Street Lights

But even so you can see some variety in the front page. Fallout 4's is basically "settlements, crafting, and nudes". Why would I want to play a game whose community is all over those three topics and those three topics mostly?
 
Einhanderc7 said:
Modders had a field day with NFV, most due to it being more open to modding as well much more passion for the game from the fan base.

Fallout 4 however, is for a lack of better words, obscenely difficult to mod due to the way the game is hard wired. Most of the mods you will find for Fallout 4 related to the settlement and minor changes and fixes, but nothing of real meat like you would find for New Vegas. This is due to how difficult it is to get past a lot of the design choices the developers made for the game. Plus why mod something into a completely new game? It really defeats the purpose, as the amount of effort is almost the same as building a game from scratch.

From my perspective Fallout 4 has more in common mechanic wise to the console Brotherhood of Steel game with the way it simplifies everything. Not exactly a Fallout PC title us stubborn old schoolers look for.
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Why is it so much harder to mod the PC version of Fallout 4 on PC?

I keep reading this from PC gamers on a bunch of different websites on the internet.

I still have not purchased and played to this day today Fallout 4 so I cannot access Fallout 4's Creation Kit to look at it and try it out to see what it does.

Is a lot more stuff hard coded than all of the other previous developed Bethesda Game Studios video games?

Isn't FO4SE getting more developed as the years pass by? I read on reddit.com that the people developing FO4SE like a month ago that they will release a huge update in 2018 or close to 2018.
 
The F4SE came pretty late and is still pretty slim. Other issues are that they use a new format for animations that require expensive proprietary software (or something like that; bottom line is that making new animations is harder), and general design choices like the voiced player character that make quest mods harder to pull off seamlessly.
 
Hassknecht said:
and general design choices like the voiced player character that make quest mods harder to pull off seamlessly.
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Not until someone develops F4's "Fuz Ro D-oh'', that's for sure. To have normal looking dialogs, modders had to put blank sound files.(for EVERY "voiced" line) One LL's quest mod does this.
 
Also the F4SE team stopped working on it and focused on making the Skyrim Special Edition Script Extender (SKSE64), only a little while ago some members of it came back to work on the F4SE.
So Skyrim SE delayed the work on F4SE.
 
It's very hard to get a fan base to be passionate about a game the developer's aren't so passionate for...
 
Risewild said:
Also the F4SE team stopped working on it and focused on making the Skyrim Special Edition Script Extender (SKSE64), only a little while ago some members of it came back to work on the F4SE.
So Skyrim SE delayed the work on F4SE.
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*Brain haemorage*

Nothing beats buying the same fucking game twice.
 
Einhanderc7 said:
I disagree, but that's my only my perspective. However the New Vegas Bounties fit very well.
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I like how you think, but I have to disagree. I have played NV Bounties myself and they are definitely one of the best mods on Nexus, but I wouldn't want to see them in the vanilla.

Don't get me wrong, they are faithful to the lore, well voiced and good mods overall. That said, I think they are a bit over the top for my taste. Just like the rest of someguy series.
 
Too much over the top. Suddenly it does not seem like I'm playing New Vegas anymore, but "Courier against the world: The Game"

Note: I like Bounties a lot, Cocker and Cutty are better then any char that Bethesda create in a Fallout game.
 
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