New Vegas Vs. New Reno

[The Man From Nowhere]

New Vegas is an amazing city and all, but there's only one place in the Fallout wasteland where you can follow your dreams of becoming a porn star or murdered for having drugged up sex with a mob boss's daughter or wife - and that's New Reno.

 

[MPPlantOfficial]

Nah. It's just a case of limited dev time and getting hit by the "'vvvrythanng shud be PeeSee" thing.

 

[Pwener]

New Reno is a dump. At least Mr. House tried making Vegas look classy. His casinos also have a hell of a lot more personality than the three in New Reno. It also has a police force of impractical wacky talking blue robots with rocket launcher shoulders. What did Salvatore have? Oh right, smuggled laser pistols... wow... just... wow... doesn't compare.

 

[scorptatious]

I like both. : /

 

[Atomkilla]

The only thing that sucks in New Vegas vs Reno is that it looks awful and is designed poorly. Due to engine limitations, but it really looks small and barren. You have several buildings that are big and imposing, the rest of the stuff is just obvious compromise between original vision and what can actually work.

 

[SiriusShenanigans]

New Reno is just the cooler town. There is nothing to do in vegas, and it makes it feel rather lifeless. New Reno is a terrible place but its got a lot of style. Ultimately, Vegas has one problem that will always make me look down on it. Its too orderly. The primary difference between New Vegas and New Reno is a matter of domestication. New Reno is a savage that bows to nobody where as New Vegas is the lap dog of Mr. House. New Vegas is always looking to serve the consumer, but New Reno has this aggressive atmosphere of tension through the tenuous balance of power. It makes the town more volatile and interesting, which I always found more interesting than the stability of new vegas. New Reno was a place that represents a war between humans, but New Vegas has a self appointed god in house and his little army. Its just not as interesting.

 

[Lone Cat]

New Reno is a part of F2 and plays minor role in its story arc
New Vegas is a centerpiece of an entire game made with severe restrictions imposed by Beth. (who favors one-city narratives rather than regional story)

 

[NMLevesque]

Vegas was PC? Rape, torture, cannibalism, chemical warfare, drugged up sex with hookers...oh but no pornos to star in. Exhibitionism is the lynch pin apparently.

There is nothing to do in vegas

...It has more content even in just the Strip, and New Reno is fairly repetitive.

 

[Norzan]

There is nothing to do in vegas

https://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_Vegas_Strip

All those quests don't exist, they are just an illusion.

 

[CT Phipps]

Vegas had two brothels so I give kudos there.

Could have used a porn studio.

And boxing.

 

[SiriusShenanigans]

New Vegas isn't PC, but it isn't the tense warzone that New Reno might as well be. In no ending is there Ash Tuesday for New Vegas. People obey the rules for the most part and they aren't trying to assassinate each other. Its all very controlled. The White Glove cannibals and Gomora torture is often just tucked away.

I don't think of New Vegas as having too many interesting quests. I remember vaguely being amused by swapping out the human meat with convincing substitutes, but I remember guessing that the special restaurant they had on the radio was actually a bunch of cannibals way back around primm simply because thats a low hanging fruit. That's just my experience. I would love to hear what you all think of as the best quests of the city of New Vegas. New Reno has more interesting things that spark stories for me. Trying to steal and rob from mafia bosses at low levels or figuring out how to do assassinations while not getting caught, Figuring out how to become a made man in all 4 places, Getting married and divorced, Raiding military depots and accidentally causing a break out of bubonic plague, Talking shit about that one bouncer in front of Mr. Salvatore, Poisoning the stills, becoming pornstars, running around and getting mocked by everybody in power armor, tracking down your lost car! Those are interesting things to me. A lot of stuff isn't even about having a quest, its just that there are variables and you can play with them.

Even with New Vegas as a centerpiece, I never felt like I enjoyed New Vegas' storyline. The Chairmen, Omertas, and White Glove societies are just very boring by comparison to Salvatores, Bishops, and Mordinos. The Chairmen have Benny, the Omertas are supposedly sided with the Legion, and I don't remember the white glove society having anything beyond "we are fancy cannibals", but you often don't see the influence of these gangs in other places. The story of the mordinos and jet starts out in the den, with the trail of drug addicts who's lives have been ruined by the mordino's practices and also by the stockpile of chemicals that metzger is shipping to New Reno. Its something that follows you through out the game and is haunting. The Bishops have a huge conspiracy linking them with raiders that are attacking Vault City and a campaign to undermine Vault Citys independence as well as colussion with a corrupt candidate for ruling the NCR. In that sense, the Bishops want to rule it all from the shadows. The Salvatores are running chemicals to Navarro, which makes them seem like they are doing some valuable work in getting the FEV the Enclave is trying to work on. They are murdering the world for their own prosperity. Also, they are one of the only groups with energy weapons, and that means them having those laser weapons is a big deal. I get the feeling they could have had plasma weapons, but it would be really bad for the scaling of the game.

In a way, I think its presentation. I feel like the New Vegas gangs' story is hidden away by a walled off area called "the main plot" and outside of that, they never show any importance. New Reno is a highly optional area, but they have been giving you the call to adventure from early on. New Reno may not be the main storyline of Fallout 2, but the families of New Vegas have their hand in towns all over the wasteland and its politics. Stories that are started elsewhere often lead you back to New Reno.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Reno. Is my favorite part of FO2

 

[Lone Cat]

Vegas had two brothels so I give kudos there.

Could have used a porn studio.

And boxing.

Three if you completed a quest given by one of the two Garetts at Atomic Wranglers
before that there's one in the Westside (where Enclave Remnants leader is), the other is the Gomorrah. ran by the Mafia-style faction. (Omerta is the code that distincts Mafia to any other gangs and raiders).

 

[NMLevesque]

In no ending is there Ash Tuesday for New Vegas.

Legion endings aren't enough?

People obey the rules for the most part and they aren't trying to assassinate each other. Its all very controlled.

Basically every time you enter Freeside someone tries to murder the pc. There aren't really any rules there as best I can tell. The Kings might like to play police here and there, but so do the Van Graffs, and the owners of that the Atomic Wranglers. The Strip has rules, outside the casinos. Inside they get away with nasty shit.

I don't think of New Vegas as having too many interesting quests.

There's no accounting for taste I suppose. Honestly the New Reno gangs seemed mostly interchangeable to me.

 

[SiriusShenanigans]

Legion endings aren't enough?

I feel like there is a difference between external threat and internal threat. Legion would kill everybody, but they aren't part of vegas. Nobody in vegas is trying to take over vegas.

Basically every time you enter Freeside someone tries to murder the pc. There aren't really any rules there as best I can tell. The Kings might like to play police here and there, but so do the Van Graffs, and the owners of that the Atomic Wranglers. The Strip has rules, outside the casinos. Inside they get away with nasty shit.

New Vegas is a little bit better when you expand it out to include Freeside. I like the Kings. Freeside is certainly less controlled, but the inside has rules. I guess my problem with the strip gangs is that even when you have their "Deep dark secrets" they are kind of predictable. White Hand eating people was my guess before I knew what the white hand was, simply from radio talk about a fancy dinner. Gommorah is just sort of torturey, but they look like a torture den. I guess the most surprising thing is that the chairmen's leader is trying to stage a coup of Vegas, but thats all its got going for it.

There's no accounting for taste I suppose. Honestly the New Reno gangs seemed mostly interchangeable to me.

I find the different gangs play a different role in the city and they make for an interesting war scenario. What are the quests you find most interesting in Vegas? I'd be curious to here about them. I'd love to hear what you think the best highlights are.

 

[Pwener]

I feel like there is a difference between external threat and internal threat. Legion would kill everybody, but they aren't part of vegas. Nobody in vegas is trying to take over vegas.

Oh really? I guess Big Sal and Nero only wanted to share those guns with the NCR Embassy. And the whole business with Benny shooting you and jumpstarting the main-freaking-game was just him on holiday and nothing to do with taking over Mr. House's Securitron army with the express purpose of controlling Vegas.

Jeez man, what game did you play? You sure it wasn't a New Vegas themed mod for Fallout PoS?

I find the different gangs play a different role in the city and they make for an interesting war scenario. What are the quests you find most interesting in Vegas? I'd be curious to here about them. I'd love to hear what you think the best highlights are.

'Beyond the Beef' has more branches than a tree and is often pointed out as one of the best, if not the best, quest(s) in the game. I always enjoy it.

In Reno, the most intricate quest I can think of is proving that one Wright kid didn't overdose. Not as fun.

 

[SiriusShenanigans]

Oh really? I guess Big Sal and Nero only wanted to share those guns with the NCR Embassy. And the whole business with Benny shooting you and jumpstarting the main-freaking-game was just him on holiday and nothing to do with taking over Mr. House's Securitron army with the express purpose of controlling Vegas.

Yes, I'll give you that I mispoke, but in Vegas the level of conniving and foul play is very limited. None of the gangs are ever competing against each other. There isn't really a chairmen/omertas/white glove strife going on, and even with benny and the omertas, Benny's operation is very small since I don't believe even his second in command knows about the conspiracy for the coup, since benny admits to not being a betting man. And I was never that interested by the omerta's support of the legion. Like they already look like they would side with the legion given their whole aesthetics. Maybe if it was the Chairmen supporting the legion I might have been surprised, it might have said something about the Chairmen as a whole, but the Omertas supporting the Legion doesn't really say anything about them that they weren't already saying about themselves.

'Beyond the Beef' has more branches than a tree and is often pointed out as one of the best, if not the best, quest(s) in the game. I always enjoy it.

Beyond the Beef is just a boring quest though... I will give you that the quest has a lot of options, but the conceptual content is just dry and bland. Without knowing anything about them, I guessed their schtick, and it really makes that part of the quest boring. I do remember having fun with trying to replace the food with substitute meat and stealing the outfit to sneak in is nice, but its the sort of thing where there is no intrigue. Its not that the quest isn't well made with options in mind, I just don't care about the white glove because they are predictable.

I feel like in contrast, there is a lot more intrigue with stuff like the Sierra Army Depot quest. It has this air of death around it, being one of those terrible places you hope not to run across in the wasteland. Bodies littered everywhere around it with heavy turrets around the perimeter. Such heavy weaponry also wasn't available in many areas, so it feel special. You get to run around trying to do things like shut down the power for alarm systems, disarming bombs, breaking through doorways with artillery fire. Technically thats all you need to do for the quest, but I love that the decision even starts before you do anything. Do you even take the quest? Even as good as the wright family may seem, they will still slaughter all their competition if you break in. If you want a good guy ending to new reno you have to not take it or cover your tracks and still forgo being a made man. On top of that, the actual facility is facinating. You have force fields you can tank or hack with repair, you can blow them up too. You can search for a passcode or crack open the gates with science or sheer luck. Inside their are all sorts of traps and dangers. You also get to see how advanced medical science had progressed in a way that you don't usually get to see in fallout. You are restoring organs with biomed gel and toting them along to sneak past biometric scans. The logs and messages left by the former denizens of the base are hilarious. You get to learn about their porn interests and how they hacked into the surgery machines to create "Colon removal" processes (something I save for myron every time). There are all sorts of weapons to be discovered and all the News reports about the past really tell you about how crazy it was in the past, which is a big deal since the Enclave reflects the past, particularly with the political side that they come from. There is Skynet, and all the diseases you an accidentally spread to that whole section, which works as a way to deny the wrights from getting to slaughter everybody with all their new weapons. You revive a soldier from just a piece of his eye left over from a battle and he just melts away a few moments afterwards. That almost cured death and thats terrifying and amazing at the same time. The Sierra Army Depot quest is amazing and interesting and it may be the best quest in New Reno.

I think part of my love of the New Reno area is that a lot of New Reno is unmarked in terms of quests. It gives you the freedom to just go and do things and experiment. You can decide who takes over New Reno without ever taking a gang's quest. Every gang also has something to do at their location beyond their main quest line. Taking out the bosses of the gang are sort of an unmarked quest by themselves, but beyond that you have finding a cure for Jet addiction, you have discovering where the Salvatores get their weapons, trying to get weapons for the guns salesmen on the west side, you have secretly trying to escape having slept with the women of the bishop family, there is all the temperance society stuff for the wright family, and more. There is just so much side content for New Reno, and there is always this game of "who is working for who and who is doing what". I think that New Vegas is certainly more interesting if you include groups beyond the strip, but its also very big and hard to figure out whats what.

 

[Pwener]

Maybe if it was the Chairmen supporting the legion I might have been surprised, it might have said something about the Chairmen as a whole, but the Omertas supporting the Legion doesn't really say anything about them that they weren't already saying about themselves.

So factions that are similar in mindset, shouldn't be teaming up? That makes little sense narrative-wise.

Building a 'twist' by making factions and characters act out of character is dumb. Please never become a writer.

The Omertas siding with the Legion is an obvious critique to Mr. House being out of touch with his associates. Big Sal even chastises him about it when talking to you.

Beyond the Beef is just a boring quest though... I will give you that the quest has a lot of options, but the conceptual content is just dry and bland. Without knowing anything about them, I guessed their schtick, and it really makes that part of the quest boring. I do remember having fun with trying to replace the food with substitute meat and stealing the outfit to sneak in is nice, but its the sort of thing where there is no intrigue. Its not that the quest isn't well made with options in mind, I just don't care about the white glove because they are predictable.

Your criticism makes no sense. You go from saying there is no 'intrigue' and then say they're 'predictable.' Basically, it's a bad quest because you don't like it?

It feels like you're trying to say they were handled poorly but it isn't conveyed properly.

I feel like in contrast, there is a lot more intrigue with stuff like the Sierra Army Depot quest. It has this air of death around it, being one of those terrible places you hope not to run across in the wasteland. Bodies littered everywhere around it with heavy turrets around the perimeter. Such heavy weaponry also wasn't available in many areas, so it feel special. You get to run around trying to do things like shut down the power for alarm systems, disarming bombs, breaking through doorways with artillery fire. Technically thats all you need to do for the quest, but I love that the decision even starts before you do anything. Do you even take the quest? Even as good as the wright family may seem, they will still slaughter all their competition if you break in. If you want a good guy ending to new reno you have to not take it or cover your tracks and still forgo being a made man. On top of that, the actual facility is facinating. You have force fields you can tank or hack with repair, you can blow them up too. You can search for a passcode or crack open the gates with science or sheer luck. Inside their are all sorts of traps and dangers. You also get to see how advanced medical science had progressed in a way that you don't usually get to see in fallout. You are restoring organs with biomed gel and toting them along to sneak past biometric scans. The logs and messages left by the former denizens of the base are hilarious. You get to learn about their porn interests and how they hacked into the surgery machines to create "Colon removal" processes (something I save for myron every time). There are all sorts of weapons to be discovered and all the News reports about the past really tell you about how crazy it was in the past, which is a big deal since the Enclave reflects the past, particularly with the political side that they come from. There is Skynet, and all the diseases you an accidentally spread to that whole section, which works as a way to deny the wrights from getting to slaughter everybody with all their new weapons. You revive a soldier from just a piece of his eye left over from a battle and he just melts away a few moments afterwards. That almost cured death and thats terrifying and amazing at the same time. The Sierra Army Depot quest is amazing and interesting and it may be the best quest in New Reno.

If to defend Reno, you have to use a gameworld (a dungeon really) that is completaly separate from Reno and unrelated in every level with the exception of someone in the city sent you there... well... that just defeats your argument. The Sierra Army Depot is not Reno or shares any of its themes. It's like defending the Legion using the NCR.

I think that New Vegas is certainly more interesting if you include groups beyond the strip, but its also very big and hard to figure out whats what.

Yeah, well, that's the whole point. The game is called "Fallout: New Vegas." So yeah, you HAVE to take things outside the actual city into account for it all to make sense. Is F2 called "Fallout: New Reno?" No, it's not. Everything in Vegas is connected to the region. In Fallout 2, Reno is connected in some small part to another settlement, but beyond that there is not much else and Reno remains its own isolated world. Not so with New Vegas.

Also, Reno is bigger than Vegas, so of course there's gonna be more content to do in the actual city.

 

[SiriusShenanigans]

Building a 'twist' by making factions and characters act out of character is dumb. Please never become a writer.

Its really hard to say that the chairmen would be acting out of character, speaking that they don't have any traits to make them act out of character with. I'm saying that at the very least having them throw something in like a secret legion contact would make you have to reevaluate them. It would be something that would force them to establish who they are as an organization, which the game is rather afraid of doing.

Your criticism makes no sense. You go from saying there is no 'intrigue' and then say they're 'predictable.' Basically, it's a bad quest because you don't like it?

It feels like you're trying to say they were handled poorly but it isn't conveyed properly.

I mean what I say when I say they have no intrigue and are predictable. From a writing stand point, they are low hanging fruit. Its a well made quest, but its got nothing interesting to say, which is awful for a smart and creative series like fallout. I feel like everyone and their mom should be able to point out a chekhov's gun pretty easily if they are above 12 years of age and the fact that the only thing you hear on the radio about the ultralux is about their food means that "Something is wrong with the food." It being fallout and them being super fancy, they are totally gonna be cannibals because wouldn't that be a twist? Wasteland 2 did the same thing with a fancy of rule abiding people and I was equally frustrated with them. Fallout 3 does this as well with the town of Arefu. It's just not original.

If to defend Reno, you have to use a gameworld (a dungeon really) that is completaly separate from Reno and unrelated in every level with the exception of someone in the city sent you there... well... that just defeats your argument. The Sierra Army Depot is not Reno or shares any of its themes. It's like defending the Legion using the NCR.

Sierra Army Depot is absolutely related to reno, because its a reno quest line. You do not encounter the Sierra Army Depot if you do not go to New Reno. I guarantee, it was designed by the team working on New Reno and nobody else. If you don't include areas outside of reno for quests there basically are like 2 quests in the whole group, because fallout 2 was built around having an interconnected map. The Sierra army depot is right next to Reno, along with Golgotha, and the Stables. Its a new reno quest. As is the bishop quest to assassinate the ncr leader, or the raider quest line. I'll let you use any of the tribes quest lines even hoover dam. If you don't want to say that locations outside of reno proper count, then I would point to the ways you can approach stealing and assassinate the bosses. Whether you use timed bombs, unhealthy drugs to make their hearts explode, removing their air tanks, shooting them up, knife them then try to sneak your way out with high stealth, feed them poisoned jet? there are lots of ways to approach it. I love the ways that the game encourages you to make interesting experiences with things like trying to sneak out of the bishops casino without getting caught after bedding the women of the family.

In Fallout 2, Reno is connected in some small part to another settlement, but beyond that there is not much else and Reno remains its own isolated world. Not so with New Vegas.

I don't know where you get that idea. Reno is selling drugs to most of the map. You have drug deals in the Den, fighting for gold in Redding, Trying to campaign against slavery in Vault City, Trying to over throw the government in NCR, and you can get a helicopter straight to Navarro there too. That's most of the map. Reno is a central location for a lot of the conflict in the game.

 

[Pwener]

Its really hard to say that the chairmen would be acting out of character, speaking that they don't have any traits to make them act out of character with. I'm saying that at the very least having them throw something in like a secret legion contact would make you have to reevaluate them. It would be something that would force them to establish who they are as an organization, which the game is rather afraid of doing.

I can only see this as one of the Chairmen going rogue and striking a deal with a Legion spy in the city, but the whole organization? There is no way. It would be out of character for Benny.

The "All Roads" comic, which is canon (ingame evidence), shows Benny having an almost obsessive control over his people while keeping them in the dark at the same time.

I mean what I say when I say they have no intrigue and are predictable. From a writing stand point, they are low hanging fruit. Its a well made quest, but its got nothing interesting to say, which is awful for a smart and creative series like fallout. I feel like everyone and their mom should be able to point out a chekhov's gun pretty easily if they are above 12 years of age and the fact that the only thing you hear on the radio about the ultralux is about their food means that "Something is wrong with the food." It being fallout and them being super fancy, they are totally gonna be cannibals because wouldn't that be a twist? Wasteland 2 did the same thing with a fancy of rule abiding people and I was equally frustrated with them. Fallout 3 does this as well with the town of Arefu. It's just not original.

You don't like the quest, just say so. Nothing wrong with that. I'd respect your opinion more if you just admitted it.

Sierra Army Depot is absolutely related to reno, because its a reno quest line. You do not encounter the Sierra Army Depot if you do not go to New Reno. I guarantee, it was designed by the team working on New Reno and nobody else. If you don't include areas outside of reno for quests there basically are like 2 quests in the whole group, because fallout 2 was built around having an interconnected map. The Sierra army depot is right next to Reno, along with Golgotha, and the Stables. Its a new reno quest. As is the bishop quest to assassinate the ncr leader, or the raider quest line. I'll let you use any of the tribes quest lines even hoover dam. If you don't want to say that locations outside of reno proper count, then I would point to the ways you can approach stealing and assassinate the bosses. Whether you use timed bombs, unhealthy drugs to make their hearts explode, removing their air tanks, shooting them up, knife them then try to sneak your way out with high stealth, feed them poisoned jet? there are lots of ways to approach it. I love the ways that the game encourages you to make interesting experiences with things like trying to sneak out of the bishops casino without getting caught after bedding the women of the family.

Fallout 2 has an interconnected map?! No way... (sarcasm mode 200%). All Fallout games have an interconnected map with the exception of Fallout 4 and (kinda) Fallout 3. So what's your point by bringing that up?

The Depot, like I said, does not follow any of Reno's themes. Just because you unlock it through New Reno, and it being next to Reno, does not mean it is connected to it thematically and can be used to prop up Reno.

Hell, the Depot isn't even that great anyway. You can take the entire location, eliminate the quest that sends you there, put it somewhere else, and it would remain unchanged.

I don't know where you get that idea. Reno is selling drugs to most of the map. You have drug deals in the Den, fighting for gold in Redding, Trying to campaign against slavery in Vault City, Trying to over throw the government in NCR, and you can get a helicopter straight to Navarro there too. That's most of the map. Reno is a central location for a lot of the conflict in the game.

This is from the Restoration Project and thus rendered invalid. Do not argue this point please.

It's like I said; New Vegas deals with the entire region and even DLC locations are affected by it simply existing. New Reno only deals with a handful of other settlements, again, like I said. In no way does Reno affect the entire northern region of California.

What places does Reno touch? NCR, Redding, The Den, Vault City, the Raider/Merc caves and Broken Hills. Did I miss any? Heck, Broken Hills only has a fetch quest that sends you there and that you can get glasses for you-know-who from the you-know-what.

So, the locations I mentioned are not even half the locations in the game. Contrast this to New Vegas which every town in Nevada mention at some point.