Fallout: Texas (The Great Wastes)

Dissapointed to hear, but understand your reasoning.

Just one little helpful note re: the Terrestrial Children now that they've moved their location -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

Yeah I felt quite bad after you had done such a brilliant map! But the more I think about it the more it rings true to go with this approach for a number of reasons. Thank you for the location tip, that's actually quite cool. I could have that as a major outpost next to their Roswell HQ just so they aren't tucked away.

Church of the Deluge Remnant are going to stick around in some form, smaller in scope/scale and more like their Canticle for Leibowitz counterparts (Who also I believe were located in New Mexico?), right now I'm thinking I might take them down a path of being anti-tech luddites in some strange form, to make them an opposition/counterpart point to the Brotherhood. Perhaps their eventual absorption by the Legion gels quite well with the Legion's own beliefs about technological reliance.
 
Church of the Deluge Remnant are going to stick around in some form, smaller in scope/scale and more like their Canticle for Leibowitz counterparts (Who also I believe were located in New Mexico?), right now I'm thinking I might take them down a path of being anti-tech luddites in some strange form, to make them an opposition/counterpart point to the Brotherhood. Perhaps their eventual absorption by the Legion gels quite well with the Legion's own beliefs about technological reliance.
Yeah, in a more familiar setting it doesn't make sense to have the plot center so much around this radically alien neo-biblical thing. You could probably just literally make them the Abbey at this point - maybe based out of here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Castle
 
Call me a flake, but I decided to flip flop and return to Texas as a setting because of the exact same reasons I picked it in the first place: creative freedom. However, I'm going to be making some revisions and changes and posting way slower. I decided to do some research into Texas itself to get more familiar with the area. Changes I've come up with so far:

  • Before the Great War, the "Texaplex" of Austin, Dallas/Fort Woth and Houston were connected by a space-age Shinkansen esque super-metro
  • Kallos is now located in College Station, Texas due to its central location between these three major cities. The campus is the home of Dome Authority
  • Houston is almost entirely flooded and is home to a fishing community that lives in Skyscraper ruins and farms mutant crawdads
  • The storms/twisters/mega-cyclones are on the eastern side of the map in Akransas and Oklaholma, the thing that breaks New Mexico from Texas is the stretch of barren "dune sea" comparable to Death Valley or the Divide in terms of uninhabitable nature, still plagued by sandstorms but not quite mega-twisters.
  • The Sidewinders originated from the soldiers stationed at Fort Hood, who then migrated to Caprock Canyons
  • West-Tek's HQ and Power Armor manufacturing facilities were located in Fort Worth (analogous to Lockheed Martin) and were a bounty of power for the Salvager Union
  • Pantex became one of the most important locations in Resource War America, a "21st Century Los Alamos" that acted as the "Spearhead of America" developing nuclear weaponry. It was bombed so hard that the surrounding region is still radioactive even today. The Painted Rocks of the Red Okie plains regard it as the barrier to the Great Wastes
  • Despite the environmental disaster of Fracking being mostly concentrated to "The Deadlands" in the south near "The Corpse" of southern Texas, "Deadland" spots still appear all over the state

At some point soon-ish I will be making posts with regards to the Rebirth, my Texas remainging of Dr. Clark and his theological Ghoul refuge, and the Salvagers Union, a potentially extremely powerful pseudo-socialist bloc succumbing to internal factionalism.
 
Really excited to hear you returning to Texas! Now time for some of my unasked for opinions...
  • Not crazy about the name "Texaplex," but the basic concept is neat.
  • I definitely think Kallos works better at College Station than Houston, great choice.
  • Very cool, love it! Minor concept of mine - maybe Galveston could be a city on stilts inhabited by Voodoo cultists that's a trading post between the Great Wastes and the rest of the Gulf so you don't have to pass through the Poisoned Swamps.
  • Feels a little strange to have Arkansas dominated by cyclones, feel like it would make more sense for it to be overgrown wilderness. And I still feel like the Dune Sea should get megatwisters from the Great Plains/Dustbowl would still come down into the Dune Sea on occasion since its all flat terrain with no natural barriers, even if they're less common.
  • Eh, I understand the desire to place them in Fort Hood since that's the big Texas military base, but I much preferred them being descendants of border patrol/occupation forces. And Caprock Canyons feel waaaaaay too far into the west and north.
  • No problem with this.
  • Love it, this is great. Why are they called the Painted Rocks? And I'd assume since its so radioactive and is the "21st Century Los Alamos," I have a feeling I know where Dr. Clark will be. And I imagine if he's theological it would tie in to the Deluge Remnants.
  • I must continue to lobby and say that I'm partial to "The Cracked Lands," though Deadlands is an improvement of Fracked Lands. But "The Corpse" is absolutely genius, embarrassed I didn't think of this myself.
  • Salvagers Union sounds interesting.
Really happy to see this back!
 
Heh, Atomic Postman, did you get the Corpse from me or from FOBOS2 Vagrant Lands where I also got the name from?
 
Really excited to hear you returning to Texas! Now time for some of my unasked for opinions...
  • Not crazy about the name "Texaplex," but the basic concept is neat.
Thanks! and "Texaplex" is just the name for the region on wikipedia, in-universe it'd probably have some cheesy 50's name, not that it matters since nobody would know what it's called now anyway, nor care. Its only post-war relevance is that the main station in Dallas is home to one of the Salvager Union towns, and the raised-monorail stations (ala the Fallout 76 Appalachian ones) that dot the line have become hideouts and crows nests for various groups including raiders and Kallos Guardians.


Very cool, love it! Minor concept of mine - maybe Galveston could be a city on stilts inhabited by Voodoo cultists that's a trading post between the Great Wastes and the rest of the Gulf so you don't have to pass through the Poisoned Swamps.

That's already sort of what the fishing community in Houston is - periodically they take a sail boat to Awlins out on the Bayou, basically the only non-tribal community in the whole region. That place is kind of a Streetcar Named Desire meets the city of Venice nowadays what with the French Quarter (of course) being the surviving core of the city. However the vulnerability of the sailboat to inclement weather or destruction by Bayou creatures like Swamp Crawlers or Gatormaws, or worse things in the sea means trips aren't hugely common. The Party might be presented with an "in and out" adventure with the sail-captain.

Feels a little strange to have Arkansas dominated by cyclones, feel like it would make more sense for it to be overgrown wilderness. And I still feel like the Dune Sea should get megatwisters from the Great Plains/Dustbowl would still come down into the Dune Sea on occasion since its all flat terrain with no natural barriers, even if they're less common.

It might be overgrown wilderness - in the east part of the state. I'm following the lead on Cassidy's Fallout 2 comment and lore established in Van Buren and JSawyer's PnP about the midwest being a big dustbowl with twisters miles wide - I made the mistake originally of misremembering Van Buren's Caesar fleeing beyond mega-cyclones into Texas, but it was actually that Caesar was fleeing east of Texas, beyond the cyclones.

And yeah I agree with regards to the Dune Sea, I think that happens but just not as frequently so as to be the Dustbowl.
Eh, I understand the desire to place them in Fort Hood since that's the big Texas military base, but I much preferred them being descendants of border patrol/occupation forces. And Caprock Canyons feel waaaaaay too far into the west and north.

I felt like I had to do something with the US's biggest army base. Truthfully the Sidewinders also aren't reliable when it comes to their history, in talking to them you'd get the vibe that somewhere along their history their ancestors made a deliberate effort to obscure it and conflate their millitary history. Their background is sketchy to say the least. I'm not 100% sold on Fort Hood either, and equally it makes complete sense that the place would be bombed so hard it'd make The Glow look like the Lucky 38 by comparison - so perhaps Fort Hood can be a gigantic mega-dungeon. I had ideas about a bunch of US Army soldiers in experimental cryostasis having their tubes cracked open one by one and their preservative stuffed-bodies being made into living eggnests for mutant insects (They can also pilot corpses as meat-puppeteers but that's a story for another day) as a sort of "ticking clock" for a millitary dungeon - maybe that's Fort Hood.

As for the North, with the utilization of Pantex as a "high level" area I've decided that the tribal, rural kingdoms that the campaign will begin in is dusty old West Texas (The Dune Sea is the "Here be dragons" barrier between New Mexico and Texas rather than eating up West Texas now) so north seemed reasonable for the Sidewinders. Location comes secondary, as I said before. Something I'll work out when the worldbuilding enters later drafts.

Love it, this is great. Why are they called the Painted Rocks? And I'd assume since its so radioactive and is the "21st Century Los Alamos," I have a feeling I know where Dr. Clark will be. And I imagine if he's theological it would tie in to the Deluge Remnants.

The Painted Rocks are actually New Vegas lore! They're Caesar's equivalent of the Baja Desert Rangers - the baddest of the bad from the furthest reach of his territory, the "Red Okie Centuria" which apparently refers to the Oklahoma panhandle.

And yeah, when I was reading about real-life Pantex and its critical importance to US nuclear weapon policy I knew it had to be the location of the "Reservation". Truthfully it actually makes more sense than Los Alamos. And yes, since the Deluge Remnants hate Ghouls as part of their theology and their cultural influence means Ghouls across the Great Wastes are outcasts, Dr. Clarke has crafted himself a safe-haven ethnostate of Ghouls with their own fervorous religion regarding the Great War.
I must continue to lobby and say that I'm partial to "The Cracked Lands," though Deadlands is an improvement of Fracked Lands. But "The Corpse" is absolutely genius, embarrassed I didn't think of this myself.

I think Deadlands just rolls of the tongue better and sounds more naturalistic (As well as being a reference to an excellent wild west RPG) - it also reflects that the Wastelanders don't really know what made these zones toxic waste nightmares. They're just dead and they kill everything that goes in. Also gels well with "The Corpse" being the peak of it, too. "The Corpse" however isn't my invention as The Dutch Ghost points out, it's taken from the cancelled Fallout BoS2. It is a very cool name.
Salvagers Union sounds interesting.

I'm hoping they'll be a more likeable faction compared to the others, they're just in a petty internal feud that's ripping them apart. I think exploring a socialist/co-op style faction in Fallout is interesting new territory and I think the fact that they're doing it incidentally rather than knowing anything about socialist ideology or whatever will also give it the kind of blue-collar rustic flavour I'm aiming for rather than communist LARPers. In that sense I think I could capture the vibe of a new nation in its cradle - and the players are in the time period where it might be snuffed out before it gets started. I've also considered calling it the "Prospectors Union or the "Junk Union" or some variation thereof, but I'm not sure. "Salvager Union" doesn't ring quite right.

Heh, Atomic Postman, did you get the Corpse from me or from FOBOS2 Vagrant Lands where I also got the name from?

I took a look over some of the stuff of the spin-offs regarding Texas to see whether there was anything worth taking. Turns out other than using Carbon because its a cool name and "The Corpse", no there isn't. Those games truly sucked.
 
That's already sort of what the fishing community in Houston is - periodically they take a sail boat to Awlins out on the Bayou, basically the only non-tribal community in the whole region. That place is kind of a Streetcar Named Desire meets the city of Venice nowadays what with the French Quarter (of course) being the surviving core of the city. However the vulnerability of the sailboat to inclement weather or destruction by Bayou creatures like Swamp Crawlers or Gatormaws, or worse things in the sea means trips aren't hugely common. The Party might be presented with an "in and out" adventure with the sail-captain.
Very cool!

It might be overgrown wilderness - in the east part of the state. I'm following the lead on Cassidy's Fallout 2 comment and lore established in Van Buren and JSawyer's PnP about the midwest being a big dustbowl with twisters miles wide - I made the mistake originally of misremembering Van Buren's Caesar fleeing beyond mega-cyclones into Texas, but it was actually that Caesar was fleeing east of Texas, beyond the cyclones.
I'd point out that people often say "Midwest" when they really mean "Great Plains" exclusively, its something I see people do a lot. I could buy Missouri and Iowa being part of the Tornado Alley, but Arkansas, at least the part accessible from Texas, doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, the Ozarks would act as enough of a sufficient windbreak that tornadoes rolling off the great plains should be intermittent. I think it would make more sense to just have it be a tribal backwater, maybe dominated by the mutant GECK or something.

Personally I always found the concept that all of the Legion was moving east to be such an interesting adventure hook in Van Buren , its a shame we will never get any more concrete hints as to what was supposed to be on the other side. This was part of the inspiration for the mysterious trading in the Motor-Gangs of Pueblo post I did.

I'm not 100% sold on Fort Hood either, and equally it makes complete sense that the place would be bombed so hard it'd make The Glow look like the Lucky 38 by comparison - so perhaps Fort Hood can be a gigantic mega-dungeon. I had ideas about a bunch of US Army soldiers in experimental cryostasis having their tubes cracked open one by one and their preservative stuffed-bodies being made into living eggnests for mutant insects (They can also pilot corpses as meat-puppeteers but that's a story for another day) as a sort of "ticking clock" for a millitary dungeon - maybe that's Fort Hood.
Well it probably couldn't be worse than the Glow, since that would end up spelling death for almost all of the major settlements of the Great Wastes, but yeah it would make sense for it to be very bombed out and irradiated. I really digg the cryostasis insects, though, very cool stuff. Could also be tied in to the strange insects of Pleasant Hills and the alien biospheres of the Deadlands.

As for the North, with the utilization of Pantex as a "high level" area I've decided that the tribal, rural kingdoms that the campaign will begin in is dusty old West Texas (The Dune Sea is the "Here be dragons" barrier between New Mexico and Texas rather than eating up West Texas now) so north seemed reasonable for the Sidewinders. Location comes secondary, as I said before. Something I'll work out when the worldbuilding enters later drafts.
Eh, not sure about this - the only "western" portion of the map that wouldn't be firmly in the Dune Sea by my reckoning is a pretty small sliver, and is no further from Pantex/new Sidewinder than the old Podunk territory. If anything the Podunk territory makes more sense, if you have it as the land between DFW and the Wichita Mountains. That's a fair distance from the Dune Sea and Pantex, and it's not like Fallout hasn't had the high-level areas pretty close to the start in the past - see Mariposa and Navarro. I think it would be better to have the podunk kingdoms in the north , with mountains/storms to the north, tribals/mutant forests to the east, and the confluence of desert, storms, and radiation to the east, forcing early level players south down towards Twin Graves.


The Painted Rocks are actually New Vegas lore! They're Caesar's equivalent of the Baja Desert Rangers - the baddest of the bad from the furthest reach of his territory, the "Red Okie Centuria" which apparently refers to the Oklahoma panhandle.
Oh neat, I'd never heard about these.

I think Deadlands just rolls of the tongue better and sounds more naturalistic (As well as being a reference to an excellent wild west RPG) - it also reflects that the Wastelanders don't really know what made these zones toxic waste nightmares. They're just dead and they kill everything that goes in. Also gels well with "The Corpse" being the peak of it, too.
All good points, you sold me.

I'm hoping they'll be a more likeable faction compared to the others, they're just in a petty internal feud that's ripping them apart. I think exploring a socialist/co-op style faction in Fallout is interesting new territory and I think the fact that they're doing it incidentally rather than knowing anything about socialist ideology or whatever will also give it the kind of blue-collar rustic flavour I'm aiming for rather than communist LARPers. In that sense I think I could capture the vibe of a new nation in its cradle - and the players are in the time period where it might be snuffed out before it gets started. I've also considered calling it the "Prospectors Union or the "Junk Union" or some variation thereof, but I'm not sure. "Salvager Union" doesn't ring quite right.
Very cool.

Personally I wouldn't like "Prospector's Union," feels silly that that terminology would be everywhere. Keep that to the Core Region and environs.
 
I'd point out that people often say "Midwest" when they really mean "Great Plains" exclusively, its something I see people do a lot. I could buy Missouri and Iowa being part of the Tornado Alley, but Arkansas, at least the part accessible from Texas, doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, the Ozarks would act as enough of a sufficient windbreak that tornadoes rolling off the great plains should be intermittent. I think it would make more sense to just have it be a tribal backwater, maybe dominated by the mutant GECK or something.

Very good point, and where my unfamiliarity with this part of the country bleeds through. We'll say that Arkansas is a ruralistic extremely savage region like pre-Legion Arizona or Utah with Zion-esque tribals. Not much technology or things of worth outside of these hunter-gatherer nomads. I think the Mississippi River could be a Fallout setting in and of itself but we reach the New Orleans problem where such a great setting potential is annoyingly adjacent, and I can't worldbuild the entire US.

Well it probably couldn't be worse than the Glow, since that would end up spelling death for almost all of the major settlements of the Great Wastes, but yeah it would make sense for it to be very bombed out and irradiated. I really digg the cryostasis insects, though, very cool stuff. Could also be tied in to the strange insects of Pleasant Hills and the alien biospheres of the Deadlands.

Good point, but I moreso meant it's a hostile smoking pit rather than somewhere of any remaining tactical value.


Eh, not sure about this - the only "western" portion of the map that wouldn't be firmly in the Dune Sea by my reckoning is a pretty small sliver, and is no further from Pantex/new Sidewinder than the old Podunk territory. If anything the Podunk territory makes more sense, if you have it as the land between DFW and the Wichita Mountains. That's a fair distance from the Dune Sea and Pantex, and it's not like Fallout hasn't had the high-level areas pretty close to the start in the past - see Mariposa and Navarro. I think it would be better to have the podunk kingdoms in the north , with mountains/storms to the north, tribals/mutant forests to the east, and the confluence of desert, storms, and radiation to the east, forcing early level players south down towards Twin Graves.

It's why I'm rejigging the location of the Dune Sea a little bit, shitty MS paint gesture:
dunesea.png

The Desert Saint would be in the area near El Paso. "Podunk" would be the area between the edges of the Dune Sea and the Rio Grande. I'd probably put Pleasant Hills westerly as the next step up the chain, and then Boomtown obviously is the link to everywhere. I also have a vague idea for Marfa, Texas being the location of some pre-war artist installation/archive/vault as an early-game hook to contrast with the podunk rural vibe. Similarly, having a sandstorm blow through from the Dune Sea is going to be something I'd like to throw out as an event early.


Personally I wouldn't like "Prospector's Union," feels silly that that terminology would be everywhere. Keep that to the Core Region and environs.

I use the term Prospector just because Prospecting is a dedicated skill and system in my tabletop rulebook, though I agree in terms of in-universe the term shouldn't be universal. I'm liking the sound of "Junk Union" or "Junker Union" but Salvager Union is still the default.
 
It's why I'm rejigging the location of the Dune Sea a little bit, shitty MS paint gesture:
dunesea.png

The Desert Saint would be in the area near El Paso. "Podunk" would be the area between the edges of the Dune Sea and the Rio Grande. I'd probably put Pleasant Hills westerly as the next step up the chain, and then Boomtown obviously is the link to everywhere. I also have a vague idea for Marfa, Texas being the location of some pre-war artist installation/archive/vault as an early-game hook to contrast with the podunk rural vibe. Similarly, having a sandstorm blow through from the Dune Sea is going to be something I'd like to throw out as an event early.
I dunno, I don't like it. The Dune Sea has been reduced down to nearly nothing, and since the land is totally flat it doesn't really make much sense that it would be some massive impediment to travel. Hardly a sea, hardly enough to support any kind of independent tribal culture. Plus, podunk now seems too close to Boomtown.

This would be my proposal of how things should be laid out:

podunk.png


My feeling is just that if East Texas hsa desertified, the part of Texas that is already a desert ought to be super-desert, not merely dusty.
 
I dunno, I don't like it. The Dune Sea has been reduced down to nearly nothing, and since the land is totally flat it doesn't really make much sense that it would be some massive impediment to travel. Hardly a sea, hardly enough to support any kind of independent tribal culture. Plus, podunk now seems too close to Boomtown.

This would be my proposal of how things should be laid out:

View attachment 18513

My feeling is just that if East Texas hsa desertified, the part of Texas that is already a desert ought to be super-desert, not merely dusty.

I understand the logic and as I was sketching up the barrier I did think it was a tad too small, and I'd happily extend the width. My contention would be that Death Valley is a hard wall to a the NCR and that's a fraction of the size, but simply because of its climate it's considered on par with the Big Empty or the Divide in terms of blockage. Regardless, I think the geography exact stuff is something I want to sort out later down the line and I'm not particularly hung up on locations in particular outisde of Pantex, The Corpse, College Station and Twin Graves being hard lock-ins. Even Boomtown is flexible, since really all it needs to be is a location that is convenient for all the major towns and the location of a fictional mega-junction

Yuck. I really like this idea in particular.

Thanks. the Fort Hood bugs are a partial leftover from an idea I had written up from my previous campaign but never came up. Basically in Utah there's a weapons testing range where historically the real life US government in the Cold War experimented with infusing mosquitoes with biological weapons as a form of warfare. So you could deploy a mosquitoes into an enemy country and let them just inject everyone with fatal chemicals. This of course sounded like the perfect kind of lunacy for Fallout, so I wondered what would happen if such creatures were mutated and exposed to radiation.

Bug.png


I pictured the mosquitoes latching themselves onto hosts via the back and pumping this SCIENCE! biological weapon fluid into them, using them as a mobile zombified bloodbag as their actual blood was replaced with the luminescent orange fluid and their body mutated. The "human" host would have a protruding yellow pot belly, and would projectile-vomit this glowing yellow-orange acid as the bug latched on.

Some "hosts" even maintain basic motor control and will hold onto the weapon they were using, a host might fire off a shotgun blast or swing a spear in your direction in their deadened state.
 
I took a look over some of the stuff of the spin-offs regarding Texas to see whether there was anything worth taking. Turns out other than using Carbon because its a cool name and "The Corpse", no there isn't. Those games truly sucked.

Yeah I have also been looking through the old design documents for the spin offs such as FOBOS2 and Fallout Extreme.
I am glad neither got made as I feel both didn't sound that interesting in general. Definitely not any of interesting world building from FO1, 2, Van Buren, and FNV.

And FOBOS was indeed a very awful game.
Few elements I liked in it such as the secret Vault Tec Vault but I found the Children of the Wasteland much more interesting than the Church of the Lost.
 
Death Valley on either side of the valley also has very very hard terrain, it's not just a question of the heat - plus its that height that allows it to get so hot, if it were just level with the surrounding terrain it couldn't be so small and sustain its own climate zone. I just feel like the Dune Sea should be a lot larger, not just something that makes travel uneconomical but something that results in the Great Wastes being almost totally cut off from the Four Corners. In my opinion, to make sense it needs to be the entire Lllano Estecado and Chihuahan Desert at minimum, probably also encompassing the Davis Plateau. And I prefer the tribal towns being in the northeast since that really is the right kind of trailer country, but I understand your reasoning and it's your call.
 
Death Valley on either side of the valley also has very very hard terrain, it's not just a question of the heat - plus its that height that allows it to get so hot, if it were just level with the surrounding terrain it couldn't be so small and sustain its own climate zone. I just feel like the Dune Sea should be a lot larger, not just something that makes travel uneconomical but something that results in the Great Wastes being almost totally cut off from the Four Corners. In my opinion, to make sense it needs to be the entire Lllano Estecado and Chihuahan Desert at minimum, probably also encompassing the Davis Plateau. And I prefer the tribal towns being in the northeast since that really is the right kind of trailer country, but I understand your reasoning and it's your call.

No you've made a fair argument on that front. It irks me somewhat having basically all of West Texas scrubbed off and such gigantically hard barrier when by comparison, the barriers to the East (Louisiana and Arkansas) are a lot, lot softer (though obviously not the north-east). But truthfully with the desertification of the rest of the state I'm not really losing much by dropping West Texas, especially since if we put the eastern barrier of the Dune Sea ( a name that I am not entirely sold on - does it sound Fallout?) somewhere around Amarillo/Big Spring that still gives me a solid 400+ miles of land for my map.
 
No you've made a fair argument on that front. It irks me somewhat having basically all of West Texas scrubbed off and such gigantically hard barrier when by comparison, the barriers to the East (Louisiana and Arkansas) are a lot, lot softer (though obviously not the north-east). But truthfully with the desertification of the rest of the state I'm not really losing much by dropping West Texas, especially since if we put the eastern barrier of the Dune Sea ( a name that I am not entirely sold on - does it sound Fallout?) somewhere around Amarillo/Big Spring that still gives me a solid 400+ miles of land for my map.
Very happy to see I've sort of talked you round. I was reading up a little on the Llano Estecado just now to bolster my argument, and it turns out that Coronado himself called the place a Grass Sea! So it seems crazy to have anything less than the entire Llano Estecado as the Dune Sea, and really it should be everything from the Sangre de Cristos mountains to the Caprock Escarpment, plus parts of the Davis Mountains and Edwards Plateau and tendrils leaking out. Besides, almost everything of significance in Texas in real life is West Texas, this place is basically a useless desert in real life, and that would only get worse in Fallout.

And I like the name Dune Sea, it feels fantasyish but in a good way.
 
Very happy to see I've sort of talked you round. I was reading up a little on the Llano Estecado just now to bolster my argument, and it turns out that Coronado himself called the place a Grass Sea! So it seems crazy to have anything less than the entire Llano Estecado as the Dune Sea, and really it should be everything from the Sangre de Cristos mountains to the Caprock Escarpment, plus parts of the Davis Mountains and Edwards Plateau and tendrils leaking out. Besides, almost everything of significance in Texas in real life is West Texas, this place is basically a useless desert in real life, and that would only get worse in Fallout.

And I like the name Dune Sea, it feels fantasyish but in a good way.

At the very least we know the area surrounding the Oklahoma Panhandle is survivable enough that the Legion campaigned out there and there was a thriving (and strong) tribe. Similarly, the Legion apparently have a total grasp over New Mexico.

But we also know that the East must have been strategically unappealing, it does seem that the further East the Legion went the more pressed for resources they were - Colorado apparently being desolate.
 
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At the very least we know the area surrounding the Oklahoma Panhandle is survivable enough of the Legion campaigned out there and there was a thriving (and strong) tribe.
Not necessarily - keep in mind that, historically, the term "Okie" specifically connotes Oklahoman migrants westward, even mroe specifically migrants fleeing the aridification of their lands. So to me, it seems more viable that the Okies are migrants to the Four Corners area, possibly fleeing the fact that they live at the confluence of a Sahara-level desert and mile-wide twisters. Besides, Oklahoma Panhandle seems waaaay too far for the Legion to be campaigning to me considering the natural barriers.
 
Not necessarily - keep in mind that, historically, the term "Okie" specifically connotes Oklahoman migrants westward, even mroe specifically migrants fleeing the aridification of their lands. So to me, it seems more viable that the Okies are migrants to the Four Corners area, possibly fleeing the fact that they live at the confluence of a Sahara-level desert and mile-wide twisters. Besides, Oklahoma Panhandle seems waaaay too far for the Legion to be campaigning to me considering the natural barriers.

To be honest, that's also a fair point considering we're told Denver is the furthest eastern reach of the Legion.

I'm gonna write up a lore post soon. Not sure whether to do Dr. Clark and the Rebirth or the Salvagers Union first.
 
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