27 Things About Fallout 3... and then some.

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Seraphim Pwns U

It Wandered In From the Wastes
Inspired by an article made about FOBOS, I decided to write this (partially informative, partially as a rant). In no particular order...

1.) Toilet drinking - Drinking water to survive is a good thing. But, ignoring reality (such as bacteria, evaporation, etc) for the sake of being realistic is nonsense.

2.) Exploding cars - Cars in Fallout 2 ran on microfusion cells. Weapons also ran on microfusion cells. I have never seen a weapon blow up in my hand in either FO1 or 2, nor did I ever see the car blow up then. I'm curious as to when the decision to make a transition from a stable power source to one that blows up the moment it is hit with a bullet was made.

3.) FPP/RT - Upon removing the Isometric-like perspective, we lose standard targetting, and upon removing the turn-based combat, some perks, traits, and skills are likely forced to be cut or modified... as such we are left with...

4.) VATS - So far, it seems to be an inadequate real-time with pause. In all honesty, it seems to be simply fan service, and a means to make spectacular slo-mo critical deaths, than a workable compromise.

5.) Childhood - The fact that you are given pre-existing relationships, as opposed to creating your own, stifles some freedom of decision... which leads to...

6.) Father - If I want to be a good child, that should be my choice. If I don't want to have anything to do with him, that too should be my choice. I was not required to find the Water Chip, and IIRC, I was not required to find the GECK... why is befriending Daddy a necessity?

7.) Fatman - In prior Fallouts, nukes were treated with respect... treated as if it was something no sane person should fool with. And now these once-sacred and much-feared items are part of our arsenal.

8.) Bobbleheads - To upgrade stats in FO2, you used cybernetic implants. Now, you are collecting Bobbleheads. Anyone else scratching their head about the logic of this? How is my character supposed to use these Bobbleheads? Where do they go? How is it they make my character stronger? Smarter? Faster?

9.) Complete voice overs - I don't know about anyone else, but I like being recognized by name. I suppose it's human nature, but I feel as if someone is trying to be hospitable toward me when doing so. Complete voice overs negate the potential for this kind of interaction.

10.) Nomenclature of "Megaton" - I find it extremely awkward. In city naming nomenclature, "Mega" means "exceedingly large" and "ton" means "town". Megaton, therefore means, "exceedingly large town". A town is supposed to be small... bigger than a village, but smaller than a city. If it's exceedingly big, wouldn't it therefore be "Megapolis"? All that aside, it is my opinion alone that they could've done a better job naming the city.

11.) Dichtomy - Regarding the two examples of interaction that've been mentioned, it is always portrayed as a dichtomy: either be nice, or insult the sheriff's hat/either defuse the nuke or blow it up. Where is the grey area?

12.) The Rock-it-Launcher - A weapon of this caliber is more fitting in a game such as MDK or Ratchet and Clank, where improvised weaponry is verisimilitudinous. Weaponry of Fallout's universe has been in the realm of realistic, or 'laseresque'.

13.) Lack of Idiocy - There was always a reason to want to play a character with a low attribute. Low luck meant weapons blowing up on you. Low charisma meant no one would stand your presence more than a few moments. Low intelligence meant you couldn't form coherent sentences. Now, a person with the intellect of a houseplant is capable of intense, well-thought out, debates.

14.) Alteration of iconic items - The Supermutants and Nuka-Cola. They are as iconic to Fallout as Vault Boy and the Highwayman. Sometimes "new and improved!" is not always "improved".

15.) Supermutants and BoS on the East Coast - While this may prove to be a non-issue (given a lot of mental stretching), and considering that FOT and FOBOS are officially non-canon, it makes one wonder how they went from SoCal to DC.

16.) Alteration of BoS lore - they went from xenophobic, zealous, reclusive, technophiles to expansionistic crusaders of justice, eliminating the Supermutant threat. Wha- huh?? Um... I though FOBOS wasn't canon.

17.) "Violence is [censored] funny" - No it isn't. Gory deaths are amusing eye-candy. It is 'cool'. It is not 'funny'. It is even less funny when attempting to do it in a realistic manner, as opposed to a pseudo-cartoonish manner. At that point, it is simply gory.

18.) Skill condensing/cutting - Fallout 1 and 2 worked just fine as far as skills went. Every skill had both a use and a unique purpose, whether the average person took note of it or not.

19.) Eye/Groin shots - Eye shots were the pride and joy of sniper builds. Groin shots would apply to the "Violence is [censored] funny" quote, however, also served a purpose in disabling a male character for a turn or two.

20.) Radiant AI - is neither radiant nor intelligent.

21.) Humor - So far, I have seen three examples of the direction Fallout 3's humor is going to be like : "Let us in, [censored]", "Nice hat, Calamity Jane", and "Violence is [censored] funny". Only one of those three sound Fallouty.

22.) Potential for unkillable children - Removed freedom. If my character wants to be heroic, he's going to take extra care to avoid hitting any kids around. If he's a villian, he's going to take out the entire town: men, women, and children. In addition, there is the Megaton issue: if Megaton is blown up, then men, women, and children will all equally die (in theory, and in common sense)... under what conditions is it wrong to kill a child via a gunshot, and not to kill a child via a nuke? Or are all the people in Megaton sterile?

23.) No sex - The issue of sex has been in every Fallout game to some extent, whether it is next to none (like in FO1), or overused as a gimmick (FOBOS), either in a veiled manner, or as plain as day. Why, then, become prudish in a series known for pushing the edge? And on that note...

24.) No prostitutes - If a person doesn't know how to do anything productive in a PA world, and do not resort to raiding, they will resort to the oldest profession in the world. Without prostitutes, it will seem as awkward as a high fantasy RPG without elves or dragons, a FPS without guns, or a Star Wars movie without Jedi. It is iconic to the genre.

25.) Unkillable NPCs - again, restriction of freedom. If I want to be unable to complete my main quest, then let me. The only unkillable person in Fallout 1 was the Overseer... and guess what... he was killable at the very end. Why should FO3 be *less* than what Fallout 1 was?

26.) Language - I don't mind expletives in games. But too much of it, imho, is immature. A hot-head swearing left and right is fitting. A frustrated worker letting loose is completely understandable. The unwashed masses, on occasion, is normal. But everyone and their brother, all with mouths that'd make a sailor blush, is over-the-top... and apparently that's the direction Bethesda is taking.

27.) The general attitude of Bethesda - They seem to care little about staying true to the Fallout universe and mechanics, the original devs, or the fans. By alienating all three, there is less reason why I'd want to bother with FO3 any more than I bothered with FOBOS.

(And it is by sheer coincidence that I came up with 27 things as well... I was aiming for 30).

In addition... points 1, 4, 5, 7 (but with the twist of violence is funny, instead of violence gets you laid), 13, 19, 25 (replace "flying" with "mushroom-cloud exploding"), and 75% of the conclusion, from 27 Things About FOBOS, hold relatively or wholly true.

For the record, here's the 27 things about FOBOS.

Comments?
 
I'm gonna play devils advocate for a minute here :twisted:


Seraphim Pwns U said:
1.) Toilet drinking - Drinking water to survive is a good thing. But, ignoring reality (such as bacteria, evaporation, etc) for the sake of being realistic is nonsense.

1. Bacteria don't survive without appropriate nutrients.
2. Water could easily accumulate in a bowl (plumbing still works, rain, condensation, etc)
3. If you needed water, and this was the only place you stumbled across that held it, what would stop you from drinking it instead of dying?
4. We still don't know if this was a for-instance or something that occurs regularly.
5. Maybe the plumbing system in each home is based on a water chip?

Seraphim Pwns U said:
2.) Exploding cars - Cars in Fallout 2 ran on microfusion cells. Weapons also ran on microfusion cells. I have never seen a weapon blow up in my hand in either FO1 or 2, nor did I ever see the car blow up then. I'm curious as to when the decision to make a transition from a stable power source to one that blows up the moment it is hit with a bullet was made.

Realistically, nuclear devices as we know them in the modern world would not explode, ever without a tremendous amount of force involved. But the thing is, this is a science fiction world with fake science based on alternate history where physics and mankinds inventions don't necessarily apply. Just because something didn't happen to appear in Fallout 1 & 2 does not mean that the original devs would not have put it in had the idea occurred to them.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
3.) FPP/RT - Upon removing the Isometric-like perspective, we lose standard targetting, and upon removing the turn-based combat, some perks, traits, and skills are likely forced to be cut or modified... as such we are left with...

This is not a terribly bad thing, as several parts of the SPECIAL system were far from ideal.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
4.) VATS - So far, it seems to be an inadequate real-time with pause. In all honesty, it seems to be simply fan service, and a means to make spectacular slo-mo critical deaths, than a workable compromise.

There is still quite a bit of debate over how this works, and even with all the explanations in the world you simply can't judge something this experimental without getting your hands on it.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
5.) Childhood - The fact that you are given pre-existing relationships, as opposed to creating your own, stifles some freedom of decision... which leads to...

In Fallout 1 and 2 your story was forced upon you, whether you cared about vault 13/Arroyo or not. Some degree of narrative IS required for a cohesive central story.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
6.) Father - If I want to be a good child, that should be my choice. If I don't want to have anything to do with him, that too should be my choice. I was not required to find the Water Chip, and IIRC, I was not required to find the GECK... why is befriending Daddy a necessity?

Finding daddy is the main quest, but for all you know, you have to go through with it just as much as you have to go through with the GECK and water chip. You are making assumptions.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
7.) Fatman - In prior Fallouts, nukes were treated with respect... treated as if it was something no sane person should fool with. And now these once-sacred and much-feared items are part of our arsenal.

Which, if you've read correctly, should not be fooled with, because they are almost as likely to kill you as your enemy.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
8.) Bobbleheads - To upgrade stats in FO2, you used cybernetic implants. Now, you are collecting Bobbleheads. Anyone else scratching their head about the logic of this? How is my character supposed to use these Bobbleheads? Where do they go? How is it they make my character stronger? Smarter? Faster?

In Fallout 2, I could also stumble across the bridgekeeper of The Bridge of Death and get a powerful lightweight armor that was made of cloth.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
9.) Complete voice overs - I don't know about anyone else, but I like being recognized by name. I suppose it's human nature, but I feel as if someone is trying to be hospitable toward me when doing so. Complete voice overs negate the potential for this kind of interaction.

Incorrect, the subtitles in many voiced games still feature your characters name. In Fallout 1 & 2. none of the talking heads called you by name.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
10.) Nomenclature of "Megaton" - I find it extremely awkward. In city naming nomenclature, "Mega" means "exceedingly large" and "ton" means "town". Megaton, therefore means, "exceedingly large town". A town is supposed to be small... bigger than a village, but smaller than a city. If it's exceedingly big, wouldn't it therefore be "Megapolis"? All that aside, it is my opinion alone that they could've done a better job naming the city.

That is quibbling, if you think this is really a valid point over which to condemn a game.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
11.) Dichotomy - Regarding the two examples of interaction that've been mentioned, it is always portrayed as a dichtomy: either be nice, or insult the sheriff's hat/either defuse the nuke or blow it up. Where is the grey area?

You seemed to have missed the article about having a minimum of 3 paths to play through the game with, and 12 endings total.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
12.) The Rock-it-Launcher - A weapon of this caliber is more fitting in a game such as MDK or Ratchet and Clank, where improvised weaponry is verisimilitudinous. Weaponry of Fallout's universe has been in the realm of realistic, or 'laseresque'.

Improvised weaponry is VERY MUCH a part of the Fallout universe. Pipe rifle ring a bell? What about the zip guns?

Seraphim Pwns U said:
13.) Lack of Idiocy - There was always a reason to want to play a character with a low attribute. Low luck meant weapons blowing up on you. Low charisma meant no one would stand your presence more than a few moments. Low intelligence meant you couldn't form coherent sentences. Now, a person with the intellect of a houseplant is capable of intense, well-thought out, debates.

:/ I got nothing to say to that. No matter how hard I try, it is utterly unjustifiable.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
14.) Alteration of iconic items - The Supermutants and Nuka-Cola. They are as iconic to Fallout as Vault Boy and the Highwayman. Sometimes "new and improved!" is not always "improved".

It's entirely possible that they will be better in the final release, since all we got was one fairly bad picture of one model of a super mutant.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
15.) Supermutants and BoS on the East Coast - While this may prove to be a non-issue (given a lot of mental stretching), and considering that FOT and FOBOS are officially non-canon, it makes one wonder how they went from SoCal to DC.

You could walk that distance if you felt so inclined, and you AREN'T super-human. That is, after all, where Fallout said that they went, right?

Seraphim Pwns U said:
16.) Alteration of BoS lore - they went from xenophobic, zealous, reclusive, technophiles to expansionistic crusaders of justice, eliminating the Supermutant threat. Wha- huh?? Um... I though FOBOS wasn't canon.

As far as I know, they are just as xenophobic and reclusive. But they are also at war with the super-mutants, and will hunt them relentlessly.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
17.) "Violence is [censored] funny" - No it isn't. Gory deaths are amusing eye-candy. It is 'cool'. It is not 'funny'. It is even less funny when attempting to do it in a realistic manner, as opposed to a pseudo-cartoonish manner. At that point, it is simply gory.

I disagree, violence is hilarious. Especially if I have a pistol with bloody mess and an entire mutant explodes as if I hit him with a rocket launcher.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
18.) Skill condensing/cutting - Fallout 1 and 2 worked just fine as far as skills went. Every skill had both a use and a unique purpose, whether the average person took note of it or not.

Yes, they did work just fine, but as a whole, the skills had A LOT of room for improvement.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
19.) Eye/Groin shots - Eye shots were the pride and joy of sniper builds. Groin shots would apply to the "Violence is [censored] funny" quote, however, also served a purpose in disabling a male character for a turn or two.

Eyeshots are entirely illogical with a gun.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
20.) Radiant AI - is neither radiant nor intelligent.

Artificial intelligence is just that, ARTIFICIAL. Do not try to exaggerate their claims simply with the intent to destroy their over-exaggeration.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
21.) Humor - So far, I have seen three examples of the direction Fallout 3's humor is going to be like : "Let us in, [censored]", "Nice hat, Calamity Jane", and "Violence is [censored] funny". Only one of those three sound Fallouty.

Moot point, this is an unrepresentative sample.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
22.) Potential for unkillable children - Removed freedom. If my character wants to be heroic, he's going to take extra care to avoid hitting any kids around. If he's a villian, he's going to take out the entire town: men, women, and children. In addition, there is the Megaton issue: if Megaton is blown up, then men, women, and children will all equally die (in theory, and in common sense)... under what conditions is it wrong to kill a child via a gunshot, and not to kill a child via a nuke? Or are all the people in Megaton sterile?

While this is still open to debate, the point is that if they do remove it, it is going to be due to fear of censors, and nothing more. They have already stated that they want to have killable children, but aren't sure yet.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
23.) No sex - The issue of sex has been in every Fallout game to some extent, whether it is next to none (like in FO1), or overused as a gimmick (FOBOS), either in a veiled manner, or as plain as day. Why, then, become prudish in a series known for pushing the edge? And on that note...

What makes you think there will be no sex?

Seraphim Pwns U said:
24.) No prostitutes - If a person doesn't know how to do anything productive in a PA world, and do not resort to raiding, they will resort to the oldest profession in the world. Without prostitutes, it will seem as awkward as a high fantasy RPG without elves or dragons, a FPS without guns, or a Star Wars movie without Jedi. It is iconic to the genre.

Once again, when was this stated?

Seraphim Pwns U said:
25.) Unkillable NPCs - again, restriction of freedom. If I want to be unable to complete my main quest, then let me. The only unkillable person in Fallout 1 was the Overseer... and guess what... he was killable at the very end. Why should FO3 be *less* than what Fallout 1 was?

I hardly think you will notice this while you play the game.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
26.) Language - I don't mind expletives in games. But too much of it, imho, is immature. A hot-head swearing left and right is fitting. A frustrated worker letting loose is completely understandable. The unwashed masses, on occasion, is normal. But everyone and their brother, all with mouths that'd make a sailor blush, is over-the-top... and apparently that's the direction Bethesda is taking.

There is and should be plenty of foul language among certain people, such as raiders.

Seraphim Pwns U said:
27.) The general attitude of Bethesda - They seem to care little about staying true to the Fallout universe and mechanics, the original devs, or the fans. By alienating all three, there is less reason why I'd want to bother with FO3 any more than I bothered with FOBOS.

This is entirely speculative and not a valid argument.
 
xdarkyrex said:
Just because something didn't happen to appear in Fallout 1 & 2 does not mean that the original devs would not have put it in had the idea occurred to them.
I'm a bit tired so I'm going to respond just to this one... Tell us when you're done assuming.
 
Black said:
xdarkyrex said:
Just because something didn't happen to appear in Fallout 1 & 2 does not mean that the original devs would not have put it in had the idea occurred to them.
I'm a bit tired so I'm going to respond just to this one... Tell us when you're done assuming.

So you ARE claiming that the devs openly considered and then rejected that idea?

Who's assuming, again?
 
Well, I saw ghoul getting hit by a car- car didn't explode ;)

Besides, if you haven't noticed, nuclear explosions, even small, aren't common in Fallout- 1 per game.
 
Black said:
Well, I saw ghoul getting hit by a car- car didn't explode ;)

Besides, if you haven't noticed, nuclear explosions, even small, aren't common in Fallout- 1 per game.


A bullet and a ghoul aren't exactly comparable :P

But the main point is, in game programming you don't use negative logic. You decide what to put in, and then you put it in. If something doesn't make it into the game, that does not by any means define it as being intentionally omitted.
 
xdarkyrex said:
A bullet and a ghoul aren't exactly comparable :P
Don'tcha dare understimate ghouls!

But the main point is, in game programming you don't use negative logic. You decide what to put in, and then you put it in. If something doesn't make it into the game, that does not by any means define it as being intentionally omitted.
There weren't exploding cars in FO1 and FO2, devs didn't say they wanted to put them in- that's enough for me.

Besides, we're talking about post-apo world where functioning cars are somewhat rare- everyone who has one is probably considered "Teh Man" and everyone who destroys one car to kill two mutated ants is considered an idiot and dies after "WHAT THE F**K HAVE YOU DONE!?"
 
Black said:
There weren't exploding cars in FO1 and FO2, devs didn't say they wanted to put them in- that's enough for me.

Besides, we're talking about post-apo world where functioning cars are somewhat rare- everyone who has one is probably considered "Teh Man" and everyone who destroys one car to kill two mutated ants is considered an idiot and dies after "WHAT THE F**K HAVE YOU DONE!?"

:P

A working battery is not synonymous with a working car.

Also... that dev statement is kinda weird.
I don't even know how to argue with it, its just seemingly random as hell.

How can you make an assumption about what someone thinks if they don't make a statement one way or the other?

That's like saying that the devs think Fallout was 100% perfect and should not change in any way.

Rarely, if ever, does an artist (or game developer) ever think they did a PERFECT job.

There is ALWAYS room for improvement.

Now what that improvement is is very open to speculation, but trying to make a claim about what is wrong is asinine by nature.
 
A working battery is not synonymous with a working car.
It's still a working part.
How can you make an assumption about what someone thinks if they don't make a statement one way or the other?

No, you're the one assuming. You're saying that devs might've thought about putting exploding cars in, I'm saying that they didn't want exploding cars.

Now, let's see.
Devs didn't say anything.
Fallout 1- no exploding cars.
Fallout 2- no exploding cars.

My 'assumptions' are based on what I saw in Fallout.
 
Black said:
No, you're the one assuming. You're saying that devs might've thought about putting exploding cars in, I'm saying that they didn't want exploding cars.

Now, let's see.
Devs didn't say anything.
Fallout 1- no exploding cars.
Fallout 2- no exploding cars.

My 'assumptions' are based on what I saw in Fallout.


No, I didn't even once claim they wanted exploding cars.

I was suggesting a hypothetical situation in which the devs had never even considered it one way or the other.

That is not assuming, it is a hypothetical.
But its a possible scenario, as none of us know any better, so claiming it is impossible is asinine.
THAT is why you are assuming.


If you're gonna question my logic, try your best not to misrepresent it, mmkay?
 
Even if it was 'considered' it was still not in the games.
And so, it's not canon. Exploding cars aren't part of Fallout. Maybe they were supposed to maybe not. The fact is- they're not. And by putting them in, bethesda once again stays untrue to FO canon and shows that they're making fps game- because what fps would be good without exploding objects? And if it's post-apo shooter then exploding nuclear cars are a must!
 
"Ton" in "Megaton" is not for town. It's from er... megaton:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaton

Even if it was 'considered' it was still not in the games.
And so, it's not canon. Exploding cars aren't part of Fallout. Maybe they were supposed to maybe not. The fact is- they're not. And by putting them in, bethesda once again stays untrue to FO canon and shows that they're making fps game- because what fps would be good without exploding objects? And if it's post-apo shooter then exploding nuclear cars are a must!

While I agree that exploding cars are silly, so is your reasoning. If everything that wasn't in FO1 and FO2 is not canon, then nothing can ever be added to the canon and there should be no FO3 at all, and you could apply much of that reasoning to FO2 as well. Some things in FO2 were silly, but they were silly because they were... well... silly or because they didn't fit the setting, not because they weren't in FO1.
 
Black said:
Even if it was 'considered' it was still not in the games.
And so, it's not canon. Exploding cars aren't part of Fallout. Maybe they were supposed to maybe not. The fact is- they're not. And by putting them in, bethesda once again stays untrue to FO canon

That is a liberal and borderline improper use of the word canon. Just because something hasn't been introduced yet doesn't inherently make it wrong. That is a logical fallacy.

Black said:
and shows that they're making fps game- because what fps would be good without exploding objects? And if it's post-apo shooter then exploding nuclear cars are a must!

That's a strawman.
 
What I mean that there were many cars in Junktown- probably without parts but none of them exploded.
In Fallout 2 Highwayman also didn't explode.

And I'm talking only about cars right now, not whole FO3 or FO world so I don't know where did you get this
then nothing can ever be added to the canon and there should be no FO3 at all
idea Ausir.
Cars didn't explode in previous FOs, why should they in FO3?
If those are cars of the future then I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't explode.
 
xdarkyrex said:
Black said:
Cars didn't explode in previous FOs, why should they in FO3?

Why SHOULDN'T they?

Black said:
If those are cars of the future then I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't explode.

See now you're the one assuming ;)

Let me ask you one thing- would you install a nuclear whatever that has chance of exploding in nuclear blast in a car?
I dunno, to me, common sense, would be to prevent any dangerous things, like explosions, radiation...
But maybe it's just me ;d
Can you imagine a big city if someone was driving a nuclear highwayman and crashed it? Chain reaction, whole city destroyed, yay!
 
Ok, dig this: oil was a hot commodity right up until the fall, and in fact the whole reason everyone blew each other to fuck was because of a huge oil war (see the tapes in the Sierra Army Depot). It's therefore plausible that some of the cars still puttering around at the time used gasoline instead of fusion cells (which is further backed by the fact that there are gas stations around, like the one where T-Ray takes your car to). Or maybe some of them used a combination of fuel and fusion cells, kind of like today's hybrid cars. So it's quite possible that at least some of the cars in the fallout world could explode if shot in the engine/gas tank/whatever else on a car can explode when shot. As for why cars never exploded in the previous fallout games, the working one in 2 was obviously fully fusion powered and thus wouldn't explode, and all the other cars in the series were bombed-out husks that had long been scavenged for parts, which assumably would include the engine and any gasoline left inside. Also there's the small matter of not actually being able to shoot cars at all in either of the games.

Also, who the hell cares if blowing up cars is canonical? If the game you're playing gives you the opportunity to blow up a bunch of your enemies by making a nearby car explode spectacularly, and you whine about it because "it's not canonical" or "it doesn't make sense", then something is clearly wrong with you.
 
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