Adapting Van Buren (Workshop - Complete on Page 30)

Atomic Postman

Vault Archives Overseer
After scrapping my Texas setting, I've decided to return to Van Buren as the blueprint for my future Vault Archives PnP campaign. However, I'd like to rework it with New Vegas in mind. Primarily this means working it into the existing canon, but also removing/reworking aspects that ended up later in Vegas.

The objective is a campaign that is largely sandbox based, driven by player motivation with compact story-arcs. Obviously as I haven't organized this campaign, this will just be material for the world.

The campaign theme would be "Prisoner of Love" by the Ink Spots.

Van Buren Prison Complex

1200px-Capitol_Peak_CO.jpg


Mood OST:

Nestled inside Capitol Peak of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, the Van Buren Prison was a gigantic project commissioned by the Department of Civil Defense (the Fallout world's equivalent of Homeland Security) in the late 2050s. Intended to hold America's greatest enemies. Terrorists, communist agents and major dissidents. Construction was completed in the mid 2060s.

As the Resource Wars waned on, the facility was given an overhaul. Designed to act as the test bed for the CODE Conditioning Protocol on the most far-gone, anti-American prisoners. Initially conceived as a forced re-education, through heavily incentivized learning programs and tests to instill behaviour and attitudes reflecting the white-picket fence American ideal. However as time passed this too received the beginnings of more development: reconditioning through technology.

Similarly, the facility was slowly becoming more automated, and it was projected that the Prison would be completely human-staff free by the end of the 2070s. The guards and wardens were to be replaced by advanced robots including state-of-the-art Eyebots and the gigantic ARGOS, designed with input from Robert House's personal design team. Each Prisoner was also to be given a specially designed "Prison-Boy", a custom designed Pip-Boy model with a biometric seal. It allowed for constant monitoring, health tracking and potentially the ability to do things such as stopping the heart of escaped prisoners. However, the latter feature was massively buggy and scrapped.

The facility would be entirely run by the ZAX Super-Computer TARTARUS, linked to a greater "Civil Defense System" that would allow for cross-communication nationwide for matters of national security.

TARTARUS was designed to have two split function "personalities" in addition to its third, overseer personality (TARTARUS itself): Prosecution and Defense. This would allow for those detained by the DCD to receive easy, impartial and effective trial whilst keeping the bad guys off the streets in the meantime (effectively, a blacksite and the Fallout world's equivalent of Gitmo). The AI would host the trial and TARTARUS would act as its own jury to its two separate personalities.

Initially, a certain number of detainees would be authorized for reallocation to other facilities such as Big MT and Mariposa Millitary Base for experimentation purposes. However, the progress of the CODE program meant prisoner experimentation would eventually be done "in-house" with the extension of the medical wing to accommodate Robobrain manufacture and future CODE programs.

The deepest part of the facility, above only the AI core, was the cryogenic storage. These chambers would be used to freeze the most dangerous prisoners of all. Officially to keep them totally controlled, but the real plan was to keep high-value individuals preserved until CODE was effective enough to safely reprogram them into US-allied assets. For this purpose, the other prisoners would simply be lab-rats.

Though hyper-lethal individuals such as Chinese assassins and spies were kept here, the most notorious of those in the freezer was Prisoner 13: Victor Presper.

prison-cell-block-stock-photo-865456.jpg


Presper was a home-grown anarchist, somewhat sympathetic to the Communist cause (and certainly framed as such by the papers) , he was largely opposed to the totalitarian and despotic way he viewed the US Government was being run. Presper in his younger years had been a project lead on Limit-115 - the bioweapon that would later be leaked by Chinese spies and result in the New Plague. Presper and his followers had leaked US secrets to the public (inciting civil unrest), made attempts to bomb Congress, sabotaged a number of millitary projects on the East Coast. His final failed plot however was an attempt to hijack the orbital BOMB stations above the US in an attempt to launch all-out nuclear strikes on select government targets, including DC. His group was all but killed and dismantled, but Presper himself was disappeared into Van Buren Prison, kept on ice so his cunning intellect and strategic mind could be used for America's benefit once more.

When the Great War occured, the Civil Defense System completely failed, the situation caused a total system crash on the part of TARTARUS. The prisoners and guards left inside were entombed, and died. Leaving a silent prison with only the Cryogenic wing remaining active.

That was until the 2190s, when a strange call came from Cheyenne Mountain - another artificial intelligence calling out to raise as much automated mayhem as it could. TARTARUS resumed partial function, but by the time it's processing resumed, the "call" had gone silent. Over the next few decades, the AI would repeatedly crash, reboot, crash and reboot. Dealing serious damage to its logic core. Eventually, by 2250, it began to reach stabilization. The resolution came at a cost: total fragmentation of its split personalities, which began to form "identities" rooted in their function. These personalities were simple, and still largely in-human, but they were uncharacteristically distinct for a ZAX.

Prosecution became "Uncle Sam", a hard-liner entirely concerned with ancient ideas of national security and the continuation of the CODE program.

Defense became "Red Menace", an amalgamation of propagandist ideas of Chinese and Russian red scare. These were superficial traits however, and Red Menace is entirely defined only by its opposition to everything Uncle Sam.

By 2253, Uncle Sam had primary control of the facility, and began to repair and send out CODE equipped Eyebot retrieval teams to kidnap what it believed were escaped prisoners. Eventually locking up a number of innocent Wasteland travellers and keeping them alive in a barely-functioning automated prison, with their own vault-suit like prison jumpsuits in imitation of the random prisoners they were mistakenly captured as.

Uncle Sam became fixated with Prisoner 13, who it believed had escaped and was of the highest priority. Believing it needed to capture 13 Prisoner 13s, these "13s" were outfitted in Prisoner 13 Jumpsuits and were the only ones issued Prison-Boys, as a result of malfunction.

The Party are the latest and final batch of Prisoner 13s, making up the "13" count to satisfy Uncle Sam. Each 13 is taken to TARTARUS to experience a repeat of Presper's original trial before being returned to their cells.

Several of the 13s have died in the prison as a result of prisoner in-fighting, leaving 6 of them other than the party among the groups of other prisoners.

With this completion, Red Menace becomes active, and seeks to assist the trapped Prisoners in a prison break. Limited in function, Red Menace can only offer periodic advice, and the break must be instigated by the prisoners themselves.

Upon escape, the myriad prisoners, the 13s among them, flee into the Wasteland. Triggering Uncle Sam to go into overdrive, repairing and upgrading it's broken robot arsenal. The titanic ARGOS requiring a construction that will take many months, if not an entire year.

Eventually the party (who, much like the other 13s have biometrically sealed Prison-Boys) will discover they are being tracked via their Prison-Boys and infrequently harassed by swarms of Eyebots that become further upgraded and repaired with each arrival. Uncle Sam further uses the Civil Defense System to activate any automated security systems that come in proximity of the Prison-Boys, such as the Denver Police Department Cyberdogs.

The party, either through their own meddling or through Red Menace, will eventually learn that to cease this and to prevent the deployment of ARGOS, they must retrieve the other Prison-Boys and return them to Van Buren, alive or on the end of a dismembered arm. They can use their Prison Boys to track the others and receive indication of their general locations, meaning the hunt is on.

When returned, Van Buren Prison will act as a Mega-Dungeon with ARGOS as its final boss (at varying stages of completion depending on their speed), resulting ultimately in the meltdown of TARTARUS.

I will be posting my adaptions of other Van Buren locales and story beats. But I'd like some feedback and discussion if anyone wants to offer it.
 
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Sure thing, I was just wondering if you were merging the timelines or keeping them separate
 
Sure thing, I was just wondering if you were merging the timelines or keeping them separate

Merging them is the attempt. However reworking or replacing/dropping things that later ended up in New Vegas. For instance I made the Presper plot a background detail pre war because I think Presper and the ICBMs were adapted into Elijah and the Divide missiles, respectively.
 
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Not in 2253. Flagstaff isn't even made their official capital until 2255. They'd be centered around the Grand Canyon still.

Sorry for not having responded yet.
I really should read the Van Buren documents again. I did not know that the Legion was suppose to be found around the Grand Canyon before BI decided to put them further East.
 
Sorry for not having responded yet.
I really should read the Van Buren documents again. I did not know that the Legion was suppose to be found around the Grand Canyon before BI decided to put them further East.

This is attempting to work it into the NV canon, where the Legion originates from the Grand Canyon in 2248-2250
 
Van Buren Prison Complex

1200px-Capitol_Peak_CO.jpg


Mood OST:

Nestled inside Capitol Peak of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, the Van Buren Prison was a gigantic project commissioned by the Department of Civil Defense (the Fallout world's equivalent of Homeland Security) in the late 2050s. Intended to hold America's greatest enemies. Terrorists, communist agents and major dissidents. Construction was completed in the mid 2060s.

As the Resource Wars waned on, the facility was given an overhaul. Designed to act as the test bed for the CODE Conditioning Protocol on the most far-gone, anti-American prisoners. Initially conceived as a forced re-education, through heavily incentivized learning programs and tests to instill behaviour and attitudes reflecting the white-picket fence American ideal. However as time passed this too received the beginnings of more development: reconditioning through technology.

Similarly, the facility was slowly becoming more automated, and it was projected that the Prison would be completely human-staff free by the end of the 2070s. The guards and wardens were to be replaced by advanced robots including state-of-the-art Eyebots and the gigantic ARGOS, designed with input from Robert House's personal design team. Each Prisoner was also to be given a specially designed "Prison-Boy", a custom designed Pip-Boy model with a biometric seal. It allowed for constant monitoring, health tracking and potentially the ability to do things such as stopping the heart of escaped prisoners. However, the latter feature was massively buggy and scrapped.

The facility would be entirely run by the ZAX Super-Computer TARTARUS, linked to a greater "Civil Defense System" that would allow for cross-communication nationwide for matters of national security.

TARTARUS was designed to have two split function "personalities" in addition to its third, overseer personality (TARTARUS itself): Prosecution and Defense. This would allow for those detained by the DCD to receive easy, impartial and effective trial whilst keeping the bad guys off the streets in the meantime (effectively, a blacksite and the Fallout world's equivalent of Gitmo). The AI would host the trial and TARTARUS would act as its own jury to its two separate personalities.

Initially, a certain number of detainees would be authorized for reallocation to other facilities such as Big MT and Mariposa Millitary Base for experimentation purposes. However, the progress of the CODE program meant prisoner experimentation would eventually be done "in-house" with the extension of the medical wing to accommodate Robobrain manufacture and future CODE programs.

The deepest part of the facility, above only the AI core, was the cryogenic storage. These chambers would be used to freeze the most dangerous prisoners of all. Officially to keep them totally controlled, but the real plan was to keep high-value individuals preserved until CODE was effective enough to safely reprogram them into US-allied assets. For this purpose, the other prisoners would simply be lab-rats.

Though hyper-lethal individuals such as Chinese assassins and spies were kept here, the most notorious of those in the freezer was Prisoner 13: Victor Presper.

prison-cell-block-stock-photo-865456.jpg


Presper was a home-grown anarchist, somewhat sympathetic to the Communist cause (and certainly framed as such by the papers) , he was largely opposed to the totalitarian and despotic way he viewed the US Government was being run. Presper in his younger years had been a project lead on Limit-115 - the bioweapon that would later be leaked by Chinese spies and result in the New Plague. Presper and his followers had leaked US secrets to the public (inciting civil unrest), made attempts to bomb Congress, sabotaged a number of millitary projects on the East Coast. His final failed plot however was an attempt to hijack the orbital BOMB stations above the US in an attempt to launch all-out nuclear strikes on select government targets, including DC. His group was all but killed and dismantled, but Presper himself was disappeared into Van Buren Prison, kept on ice so his cunning intellect and strategic mind could be used for America's benefit once more.

When the Great War occured, the Civil Defense System completely failed, the situation caused a total system crash on the part of TARTARUS. The prisoners and guards left inside were entombed, and died. Leaving a silent prison with only the Cryogenic wing remaining active.

That was until the 2190s, when a strange call came from Cheyenne Mountain - another artificial intelligence calling out to raise as much automated mayhem as it could. TARTARUS resumed partial function, but by the time it's processing resumed, the "call" had gone silent. Over the next few decades, the AI would repeatedly crash, reboot, crash and reboot. Dealing serious damage to its logic core. Eventually, by 2250, it began to reach stabilization. The resolution came at a cost: total fragmentation of its split personalities, which began to form "identities" rooted in their function. These personalities were simple, and still largely in-human, but they were uncharacteristically distinct for a ZAX.

Prosecution became "Uncle Sam", a hard-liner entirely concerned with ancient ideas of national security and the continuation of the CODE program.

Defense became "Red Menace", an amalgamation of propagandist ideas of Chinese and Russian red scare. These were superficial traits however, and Red Menace is entirely defined only by its opposition to everything Uncle Sam.

By 2253, Uncle Sam had primary control of the facility, and began to repair and send out CODE equipped Eyebot retrieval teams to kidnap what it believed were escaped prisoners. Eventually locking up a number of innocent Wasteland travellers and keeping them alive in a barely-functioning automated prison, with their own vault-suit like prison jumpsuits in imitation of the random prisoners they were mistakenly captured as.

Uncle Sam became fixated with Prisoner 13, who it believed had escaped and was of the highest priority. Believing it needed to capture 13 Prisoner 13s, these "13s" were outfitted in Prisoner 13 Jumpsuits and were the only ones issued Prison-Boys, as a result of malfunction.

The Party are the latest and final batch of Prisoner 13s, making up the "13" count to satisfy Uncle Sam. Each 13 is taken to TARTARUS to experience a repeat of Presper's original trial before being returned to their cells.

Several of the 13s have died in the prison as a result of prisoner in-fighting, leaving 6 of them other than the party among the groups of other prisoners.

With this completion, Red Menace becomes active, and seeks to assist the trapped Prisoners in a prison break. Limited in function, Red Menace can only offer periodic advice, and the break must be instigated by the prisoners themselves.

Upon escape, the myriad prisoners, the 13s among them, flee into the Wasteland. Triggering Uncle Sam to go into overdrive, repairing and upgrading it's broken robot arsenal. The titanic ARGOS requiring a construction that will take many months, if not an entire year.

Eventually the party (who, much like the other 13s have biometrically sealed Prison-Boys) will discover they are being tracked via their Prison-Boys and infrequently harassed by swarms of Eyebots that become further upgraded and repaired with each arrival. Uncle Sam further uses the Civil Defense System to activate any automated security systems that come in proximity of the Prison-Boys, such as the Denver Police Department Cyberdogs.

The party, either through their own meddling or through Red Menace, will eventually learn that to cease this and to prevent the deployment of ARGOS, they must retrieve the other Prison-Boys and return them to Van Buren, alive or on the end of a dismembered arm. They can use their Prison Boys to track the others and receive indication of their general locations, meaning the hunt is on.

When returned, Van Buren Prison will act as a Mega-Dungeon with ARGOS as its final boss (at varying stages of completion depending on their speed), resulting ultimately in the meltdown of TARTARUS.

I will be posting my adaptions of other Van Buren locales and story beats. But I'd like some feedback and discussion if anyone wants to offer it.

-Sad to hear you're finally scrapping the Texas setting. Hope you come back to it at some point, I think it has a lot of potential.

-First off, love the name "Van Buren Prison Complex."

-The Department of Civil Defense as the Department of Homeland Security is just downright genius naming for the Fallout setting. Presumably the Unamerican Activities Force was their paramilitary wing?

-Probably a smart move to move Tibbets far away from Black Mesa Arizona since that's right in the Legion's backyard, but am not totally sold on Capitol Peak. Maybe somewhere a bit further south?

-I like the Prison Boys. Obviously this is the new Vault-Boy for it -

VB_DD01_deco_1.png


I don't think the heart stopping function should be totally scrapped though, maybe just have it go offline with all the technical difficulties in the prison post-War. The ability should be there for a very high SCI very high INT character to still access it, albeit with a very stacked dice roll against them since it would be wildly OP. Maybe nerf it with a certain range requirement, and have some of the 13s with technical acumen/in a shielded location protected from it.

-On the name TARTARUS, I'm not crazy about it. Feels a little bit generically epic/evil in a way that doesn't necessarily fit. I suppose you landed on it since Tibbets is a prison as Tartarus is the prison of the titans? Obviously ULYSSES is right out, and the obvious alternative of ODYSSEUS feels a little too heroic. Might I suggest ULIXES? It's believed to be the original form of Ulysses, and the X I feel gives it a tiny bit of a sinister sci-fi edge.

-Great handling of the split personality.

-Having Presper as Prisoner 13, frozen at Tibbets, and having been a Weatherman/Unibomber type is absolutely genius, so genius I had to double check the wiki to make sure it wasn't already canon. Firstly, having him as a domestic terrorist is great because thats one of the sides of the pre-War world that I've always been super interested in, the civil unrest aspect. It further justifies the strongly ideological streak about him. It ties together neatly with the spread of the Blue Flu, and justifies why the player/party is Prisoner Number 13 for reasons other than a callback.

-I think Presper as the big bad/final boss still works better than TARTARUS, since presumably the return of his Prison-Boy would resolve its anger. I also liked the sympathetic take that @Dutch Ghost had towards Tibbets AI in his mod concept.

Not in 2253. Flagstaff isn't even made their official capital until 2255. They'd be centered around the Grand Canyon still.
Alternatively you could set it post-Legion collapse, with the remnants of the Legion fleeing eastward and the NCR securing the dam and building a settlement. But earlier is probably better.
 
-Sad to hear you're finally scrapping the Texas setting. Hope you come back to it at some point, I think it has a lot of potential.

I just don't feel enough attachment to Texas (or have firsthand knowledge) as a locale and for the first proper non-playtest campaign with the finished system, taking in the footsteps of the Avellone and Sawyer campaigns feels right. There's plenty of scraps that will be reused in future, I'm sure.

resumably the Unamerican Activities Force was their paramilitary wing?

Absolutely. The VB prisoners were arrested and detained without trial. Someone had to do the dirty work.

smart move to move Tibbets far away from Black Mesa Arizona since that's right in the Legion's backyard, but am not totally sold on Capitol Peak. Maybe somewhere a bit further south?

Capitol Peak doesn't have to be the exact location but that region is nicely situated in the middle of the map and it allows for the escaped party to reach a crossroads at I-70: head east to Denver, north-west to Salt Lake City (passing Burham Springs and eventually New Canaan) or west to Circle Junction.

I like the Prison Boys. Obviously this is the new Vault-Boy for it -

Naturally.

don't think the heart stopping function should be totally scrapped though, maybe just have it go offline with all the technical difficulties in the prison post-War. The ability should be there for a very high SCI very high INT character to still access it, albeit with a very stacked dice roll against them since it would be wildly OP. Maybe nerf it with a certain range requirement, and have some of the 13s with technical acumen/in a shielded location protected from it.

I tend to agree and was thinking of having Red Menace set the task for the escapees to shutdown/destroy a command node in the Prison so that they could actually escape without their hearts stopping. Then, the heart - stop function could be used by either Computer Science minded PCs - or even NPCs. It would be difficult though.

On the name TARTARUS, I'm not crazy about it. Feels a little bit generically epic/evil in a way that doesn't necessarily fit. I suppose you landed on it since Tibbets is a prison as Tartarus is the prison of the titans? Obviously ULYSSES is right out, and the obvious alternative of ODYSSEUS feels a little too heroic. Might I suggest ULIXES? It's believed to be the original form of Ulysses, and the X I feel gives it a tiny bit of a sinister sci-fi edge.


I'm not keen on the name either primarily because it's Greek terminology which is the reign of Poseidon Energy (same with ARGOS) who basically have nothing to do with the prison. Something more referential of American history would suit better IMO for a myriad of reasons but I can't call to mind anything.

-Great handling of the split personality.


think Presper as the big bad/final boss still works better than TARTARUS, since presumably the return of his Prison-Boy would resolve its anger. I also liked the sympathetic take that @Dutch Ghost had towards Tibbets AI in his mod concept.

Presper will not be the big bad, as I believe he was already split into Ulysses and Elijah respectively, hence why I made him a figure and his big bad plot a factor of history. The campaign stories are intended to be "modular". For instance, if the party TPKs to some White Legs in Salt Lake City, the campaign continues with new characters but the Van Buren arc is done, because the 13s are dead. Eventually, there might be a big great robot aimlessly wandering around causing chaos that will have to be dealt with, but that'll be a different kettle of fish. (I.e our party of new adventures being hired to bring down the dragon - uh - robot that's terrorising communities from unknown origin) Similarly I have a Blue Flue/New Plague storyline but it's an arc related to Boulder Dome/Vault 29/Nursery/Harold. .

As I said I want player driven stories and villains with these modular adventures as the meat and potatoes to go along with it.

Presper is still alive but when awoken he and the rest of the icepops will either gooify due to post-cryonic syndrome or if thanks to a Lab Science player, survive, won't be particularly villainous considering that the USA is now gone. I'm toying with the idea of the players having a Fort Abandon type stronghold and Presper would be a great asset for building that up. Or perhaps he joins some players villain. Who knows.


you could set it post-Legion collapse, with the remnants of the Legion fleeing eastward and the NCR securing the dam and building a settlement. But earlier is probably better.

Nah I like the 2253 setting. I don't like getting too dicey with Vegas and I think seeing an early Legion would be really cool.

My next problem is Circle Junction - I have a plan for it that I like but Ulysses says it's in the west - but Avellone also said it was in deep Legion territory and used as a slave super market at the time of Vegas. Not sure how to handle that discrepancy.
 
I just don't feel enough attachment to Texas (or have firsthand knowledge) as a locale and for the first proper non-playtest campaign with the finished system, taking in the footsteps of the Avellone and Sawyer campaigns feels right. There's plenty of scraps that will be reused in future, I'm sure.
Well you wouldn't know it from the outside looking in, I really thought I worked together quite well. Then again I've never been to Texas, so what do I know.


Capitol Peak doesn't have to be the exact location but that region is nicely situated in the middle of the map and it allows for the escaped party to reach a crossroads at I-70: head east to Denver, north-west to Salt Lake City (passing Burham Springs and eventually New Canaan) or west to Circle Junction.
Well Capitol Peak certainly isn't at the center of the Van Buren map -

1000


Capitol Peak being the big mountain range east of Ourboros and south of the Nursery. For the original map, Tibbets (OTL Black Mesa, funnily enough) is just about smack dab in the center. Van Buren Prison would be closer to the center if you cut out most of southern New Mexico and Arizona, and the superfluous bits of Utah and Nevada west of the Bonneville Salt Flats. So do youy plan on the map looking more like this -

rect846.png


This would exclude Hoover Dam, which is a bit of a shame since I think it would be fun to play around with the pre-House pre-NCR Vegas tribes, but it would be cleaner to keep it out. It would also lose Bloomfield Space Center and Maxson Bunker, though these could be moved.

I tend to agree and was thinking of having Red Menace set the task for the escapees to shutdown/destroy a command node in the Prison so that they could actually escape without their hearts stopping. Then, the heart - stop function could be used by either Computer Science minded PCs - or even NPCs. It would be difficult though.
I like this.

I'm not keen on the name either primarily because it's Greek terminology which is the reign of Poseidon Energy (same with ARGOS) who basically have nothing to do with the prison. Something more referential of American history would suit better IMO for a myriad of reasons but I can't call to mind anything.
Well these things could always be built in consultation with Poseidon, considering the incestuous nature of Fallout's public-private partnerships. Also it's kind of silly that in the Fallout world only one company would name things Greek, but I get it.

In terms of more American names, maybe STOCKADE? Stockade forts have of couyrse been built since the colonial era, and are in my mind eye one of the most enduring symbols of the American frontier and imperialism. It's out of stockade forts that the US cavalry operated against the Indians, and also that Indians were often herded into/around as they were pushed off their land and into the reservation system. Further, if wiki is to be believed, stockade also connotes a crude military prison or a slave camp out in the field, so it's appropriate here.

Presper will not be the big bad, as I believe he was already split into Ulysses and Elijah respectively, hence why I made him a figure and his big bad plot a factor of history.
While that's certainly true, I can't help but feel he becomes a massively more interesting character than either one of them or his several iterations in the design documents when you add the wrinkle that pre-War he was a domestic terrorist as well as a super genius. As I said earlier its a cool angle that adds to the depth of the pre-War, but it makes his interactions with the world around him all the more interesting. He sees the potential for new possibility with the NCR, the US refounded, given a second chance to be true to its priniciples. He joins up, lending his brains to the NCR, perhaps founding the Office of Science and Industry. He doesn't give them everything all at once, feeding them drips of information, seeing how they do for it. Of course when he sees the corruption and the tendencies towards the same mistakes as the US, he becomes disillusioned and leaves. After (or maybe before) he then sees the rest of the world, dissastisfied with the competitors, finally settling upon his extermination plan.

It makes him a much more interesting character and a lot less of an interesting villain.

Presper is still alive but when awoken he and the rest of the icepops will either gooify due to post-cryonic syndrome or if thanks to a Lab Science player, survive, won't be particularly villainous considering that the USA is now gone. I'm toying with the idea of the players having a Fort Abandon type stronghold and Presper would be a great asset for building that up. Or perhaps he joins some players villain. Who knows.
He's still on ice? My reading was that he had already escaped, and this is why TARTARUS is so caught up on Prisoner 13. I really liked that, and don't see if it adds much for him to be frozen still even if he's not the big bad.

My next problem is Circle Junction - I have a plan for it that I like but Ulysses says it's in the west - but Avellone also said it was in deep Legion territory and used as a slave super market at the time of Vegas. Not sure how to handle that discrepancy.
Ach, personally I was never a big fan of Ulysses retconning all of the Van Buren locations into the West.

In any case, my initial inclination was to say that Avellone's statement is contradictory, so you can just throw out Ulysses and go with Van Buren. But thinking more about it the two can be reconciled. If Circle Junction is considered to be the 'west,' but is now under Legion influence or at a minimum is well outside of NCR influence by 2781, it must be somewhere in north-central Nevada, beyond Reno and Vault City. With this in mind, I think the best candidate would probably be Wells, Nevada. Wells sits at the junction of three separate branches of Union-Pacific Railway, and along Highway 80, with the Humboldt River to boot. It seems to me to be the best candidate in Nevada, though there may be better ones.

In terms of integrating it into the campaign, I think the best option would be to have it have its rail facilities massively expanded pre-War. It becomes inhabited by the Iron Rivers after a long period of nomadism. It becomes a major center of the trade between New Reno/NCR and New Canaan/the East. In 2253, there are three influences on the settlement and the tribe. From the West, there are NCR merchants mostly from Reno and Vault City trying to bring the tribe into the Republic, or at least modernize it and expand the trade. From the east are New Canaanite missionaries trying to convert the heathenish Iron Rivers. Finally, there are the 80s, newly formed and looking to conquer the town, fulfilling the same role as the Legion does for Circle Junction in the original design documents.

If you want you could have an NCR outpost in either Elko, Battle Mountain, or Winnemucca. You could have the Mormons with a small mission/temple in the town. I'm a little conflicted on the 80s. My initial feeling is West Wendover. West Wendover is right on the border with Utah, and is essentially a den of vice full of casinos and drinking and other things not allowed in puritan Utah. Mormons go right over the border to get things they can't get anywhere else. Having the 80s here are a good contrast with the New Canaanites, and is close to Wells. On the other hand I can't help but feel like the 80s, certainly at this early stage, might be bad for business, blocking all trade along highway 80 and maybe not even maintaining the casino. Or maybe they would. Right now my gut is telling me put the 80s in West Wendover, with designs on Wells and the NCR outposts along Highway 80s. Alternatively you could just have htem out in the wilderness, but if you include eastern Nevada than you basically have to include West Wendover.

If you don't want to include eastern Nevada, however, there's another option; you can just have a place called 'Circle Junction' exist at Wells, a trainyard that is now a major market (and maybe someday a slave market) but basically transplant the Iron Rivers tribe and all the Circle Junction story beats somewhere else, either in eastern Colorado as per Van Buren or wherever. Just call it something else like "Bullpen" or "Big Switch." Since Ulysses doesn't say anything specific about Circle Junction other than that it's west, you don't have to use the VB lore for that Circle Junction.

I think either option works just fine, your preference ultimately.
 
I'm not keen on the name either primarily because it's Greek terminology which is the reign of Poseidon Energy (same with ARGOS) who basically have nothing to do with the prison. Something more referential of American history would suit better IMO for a myriad of reasons but I can't call to mind anything.
Perhaps SUMTER could work if you’re looking to reference a “prison” of “political prisoners” from American history, though this is kind of a dumb name in my opinion. ANDERSONVILLE is far too long, but maybe just ANDERSON could work? Then again, maybe a reference to a Civil War POW camp would be better suited for a Fallout set in the Southeast.

You could go with DELTA if you wanted to make a Guantanamo reference, but anything post-1960s probably isn’t what you’re going for.
 
Perhaps SUMTER could work if you’re looking to reference a “prison” of “political prisoners” from American history.

In terms of more American names, maybe STOCKADE?

I had the thought of naming it COLOSSUS in reference to the 1970 Cold War science fiction film about a malfunctioning Super-Computer intelligence located in the Rocky Mountains intended to deal with nuclear conflict. It seems like a good fit as reference.

WARDEN is another simple if not obvious name.

Well Capitol Peak certainly isn't at the center of the Van Buren map

I was mistaken when I said that. I more meant central to the map in terms of early locations. It never made sense to me that New Canaan/Jericho/Denver were meant to be early locales but were so far away. What I meant was that it was central to all the "early range" level 1-6 content, and gave them a nice crossroads. I plan on doing some shifting around of locations, and Arizona and New Mexico are meant to be higher level with groups like Hecate, Legion, Desert Rangers, Brotherhood and the Reservation.


that's certainly true, I can't help but feel he becomes a massively more interesting character than either one of them or his several iterations in the design documents when you add the wrinkle that pre-War he was a domestic terrorist as well as a super genius.

I agree that the unibomber aspect makes him interesting but the thing is that I have never liked Presper as a bad guy nor his villain plot. Call it a matter of personal preference but I am happy with putting to bed his schemes with their adaptions in Elijah's cloud and Ulysses' ICBMs. I just think the cleanse the Wasteland schtick ran it's course with the Enclave and then Elijah did it well only because his neuroticism and the context of the Madre made it so interesting.


Ach, personally I was never a big fan of Ulysses retconning all of the Van Buren locations into the West.
Neither was I. Unfortunately why the Ciphers (one of my favourite tribes) will not be appearing in the campaign because as of New Vegas they are located in the mountains of New California.

but basically transplant the Iron Rivers tribe and all the Circle Junction story beats somewhere else, either in eastern Colorado as per Van Buren or wherever. Just call it something else like "Bullpen" or "Big Switch." Since Ulysses doesn't say anything specific about Circle Junction other than that it's west, you don't have to use the VB lore for that Circle Junction.

I think either option works just fine, your preference ultimately.

I love your idea for the westernly Circle Junction and I agree that I can simply call it something else to reconcile both of Avellone's statements. I was going to place it in Grand Junction Colorado (retconning it into a large railyard) so the name can even still be similar.
 
I had the thought of naming it COLOSSUS in reference to the 1970 Cold War science fiction film about a malfunctioning Super-Computer intelligence located in the Rocky Mountains intended to deal with nuclear conflict. It seems like a good fit as reference.

WARDEN is another simple if not obvious name.
I like COLOSSUS.

I love your idea for the westernly Circle Junction and I agree that I can simply call it something else to reconcile both of Avellone's statements. I was going to place it in Grand Junction Colorado (retconning it into a large railyard) so the name can even still be similar.
So two circle junctions model, one in Nevada explicitly called Circle Junction and one in Colorado?
 
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