Adapting Van Buren (Workshop - Complete on Page 30)

[Atomic Postman]

Also I think you'd need a flow chart to keep track of all the possible routes to get through the New Mexico section so that quells my railroading fears.

 

[Atomic Postman]

A thought: Should the Red Okies be called the Red Okies? Their reference in NV is as the Red Okie Centuria and is put next to a deliberate phrasing "of what used to be the Painted Rock tribe" so we can deduce from this that Red Okie in itself wasn't a tribe. Besides it seems like it would massively go against the grain of the Legion to have Centuria named after tribal identities.

But then again, Red Okies is a collectivist band they're under. They each have their individual tribal identities. The Legion would want to get rid of the latter but perhaps it would simply adjust the former.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

A thought: Should the Red Okies be called the Red Okies? Their reference in NV is as the Red Okie Centuria and is put next to a deliberate phrasing "of what used to be the Painted Rock tribe" so we can deduce from this that Red Okie in itself wasn't a tribe. Besides it seems like it would massively go against the grain of the Legion to have Centuria named after tribal identities.

But then again, Red Okies is a collectivist band they're under. They each have their individual tribal identities. The Legion would want to get rid of the latter but perhaps it would simply adjust the former.

Small correction (and I had to go back to Hanlon's file to make sure): he says "Word is that the Legion's old timers have shown up, Caesar's veterans from the Red Okie Centuria and what was the Painted Rock tribe." clearly two different things, different groups of "veterans."

 

[Atomic Postman]

Small correction (and I had to go back to Hanlon's file to make sure): he says "Word is that the Legion's old timers have shown up, Caesar's veterans from the Red Okie Centuria and what was the Painted Rock tribe." clearly two different things, different groups of "veterans."

I'm aware but what I'm saying is that it doesn't seem like the Red Okies were a tribe and it wouldn't make sense if they were.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I'm aware but what I'm saying is that it doesn't seem like the Red Okies were a tribe and it wouldn't make sense if they were.

Oh I get it now. I think your point that it's a confederal name rather than the name of any particular tribes works well enough. The fact that it's "centuria" shows off the Confederal aspect.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Oh I get it now. I think your point that it's a confederal name rather than the name of any particular tribes works well enough. The fact that it's "centuria" shows off the Confederal aspect.

Yeah. I'm also going to make the Deathclaws part of Project Darwin because we never get any info other than they were Jackson chameleons at one point and not a product of radiation

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Yeah. I'm also going to make the Deathclaws part of Project Darwin because we never get any info other than they were Jackson chameleons at one point and not a product of radiation

I'd avoid that I think, or at least any explicit mention of it. The aim of Project Cloacina in Fallout 3 was specifically to use molerats (and other animals not discussed) to undermine the ecology of China. I tried to go for that with the original intent of the ants at Antfarm, too. Deathclaws, at least as of Fallout 3 (I think?) were intended specifically for use in military operations, trained and mind controlled, search-and-destroy missions. An offensive creature, not one meant to undermine the enemy's ecology and agriculture.

My concern I think is that making this thing too extensive can become cumbersome, and trying to do these sorts of all-encompassing explanations in fan created settings is something that I myself am somewhat vulnerable to the temptation of, but I think ends up being kind of cringe. What's next, Cazadores and Nightstalkers were actually part of Project Darwin too?

 

[Atomic Postman]

I'd avoid that I think, or at least any explicit mention of it. The aim of Project Cloacina in Fallout 3 was specifically to use molerats (and other animals not discussed) to undermine the ecology of China. I tried to go for that with the original intent of the ants at Antfarm, too. Deathclaws, at least as of Fallout 3 (I think?) were intended specifically for use in military operations, trained and mind controlled, search-and-destroy missions. An offensive creature, not one meant to undermine the enemy's ecology and agriculture.

My concern I think is that making this thing too extensive can become cumbersome, and trying to do these sorts of all-encompassing explanations in fan created settings is something that I myself am somewhat vulnerable to the temptation of, but I think ends up being kind of cringe. What's next, Cazadores and Nightstalkers were actually part of Project Darwin too?

Yeah I can see that. It becomes too fan-ficcy. That being said, I'm treating Fallout 3 as psuedo canon in the same way I am Tactics just because it's mentioned by proxy in New Vegas. I will be differing from your original ant-farm details in areas just to add my own flourish in the way I did slightly with Burning Springs.

By the way do you want explicit credit for Antfarm and Burning Springs in the final document? I don't want to undermine your contributions. I will definitely thank you for the copy editing.

Also I'm renaming Antfarm to Anthill because then it becomes a Paths of Glory reference which I like.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Yeah I can see that. It becomes too fan-ficcy. That being said, I'm treating Fallout 3 as psuedo canon in the same way I am Tactics just because it's mentioned by proxy in New Vegas. I will be differing from your original ant-farm details in areas just to add my own flourish in the way I did slightly with Burning Springs.

By the way do you want explicit credit for Antfarm and Burning Springs in the final document? I don't want to undermine your contributions. I will definitely thank you for the copy editing.

That's the right way to go for sure. I wasn't citing it as definitive, I just wanted to explain how I got to where I did with Antfarm and where it differs from the concept of just all genetically engineered creatures of war. And I think the narrow conception of a project designed to undermine the enemy with biology is cooler than saying "oh yeah all monstrosities were created under this one specific project, it's so crazy and OP." And no problem as to changing the Antfarm, I completely expected it and it's absolutely necessary.

And yeah that's fine, just make sure to give yourself credit for giving them form and bringing them to full fruition. In effect I just pitched the concept.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Here's the new version of Red Dawn and the Okies. Just got the Glyphers and some edits left. @Hardboiled Android

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Here's the new version of Red Dawn and the Okies. Just got the Glyphers and some edits left. @Hardboiled Android

I was getting giddy reading this. Just magical stuff.

• Again, the lack of any art online that I can find of hill or mountain sized anthills is jsut shocking, seems like such an easy concept. In any case, I think I found a better header image than the one you currently have - technically its just a hill called "Anthill" but it fits the bill appearance wise.

Spoiler

• Just want to note - I think the reason I included the note about the genetic kill-switch is that I intended one of the solutions be to convince ZAX/logic loop her into activating the kill switch with a pheromone signal as a peaceful option.
• I've noticed that you've made them Bullet Ants here ,but it doesn't really play any role. A few things: firstly, as I'm sure you know, what makes bullet ants so dangerous is their venom. So make sure to mention that their bite is incredibly painful, possibly more painful than Pit Vipers since Bullet Ant bites are the most painful in the world already. Maybe Stardust is spiked with a touch of the stuff, just for that little kick (and it does have mildly hallucinogenic properties). Second, it adds another dimension to Hecate's interest, perhaps her prime interest in the region and something she sends you to directly as her penultimate quest, to get your hands on the venom, destroying the Red Okies and making some kind of a "deal" with the Queen - seems appropriate for these two matriarchs to work together.
• Here's some alternative ant images with a retro feel:

Spoiler

• And here's some images to replace the next ant image, which should be for the Post-Apocalyptic version.

Spoiler

• I presume part of the purpose of the divisions between the three tribes is to sow division to open them up to conquest?
• I'd suggest changing Tradersville to like Brahmintown or something.
• Great characters. Love the poetry detail.
• Make sure that ZAX engages you in conversation and doesn't sick its Sentry-Bots on you immediately, peaceful resolution should be possible here.

Great, great stuff.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I was getting giddy reading this. Just magical stuff.

• Again, the lack of any art online that I can find of hill or mountain sized anthills is jsut shocking, seems like such an easy concept. In any case, I think I found a better header image than the one you currently have - technically its just a hill called "Anthill" but it fits the bill appearance wise.

Spoiler

• Just want to note - I think the reason I included the note about the genetic kill-switch is that I intended one of the solutions be to convince ZAX/logic loop her into activating the kill switch with a pheromone signal as a peaceful option.
• I've noticed that you've made them Bullet Ants here ,but it doesn't really play any role. A few things: firstly, as I'm sure you know, what makes bullet ants so dangerous is their venom. So make sure to mention that their bite is incredibly painful, possibly more painful than Pit Vipers since Bullet Ant bites are the most painful in the world already. Maybe Stardust is spiked with a touch of the stuff, just for that little kick (and it does have mildly hallucinogenic properties). Second, it adds another dimension to Hecate's interest, perhaps her prime interest in the region and something she sends you to directly as her penultimate quest, to get your hands on the venom, destroying the Red Okies and making some kind of a "deal" with the Queen - seems appropriate for these two matriarchs to work together.
• Here's some alternative ant images with a retro feel:

Spoiler

• And here's some images to replace the next ant image, which should be for the Post-Apocalyptic version.

Spoiler

• I presume part of the purpose of the divisions between the three tribes is to sow division to open them up to conquest?
• I'd suggest changing Tradersville to like Brahmintown or something.
• Great characters. Love the poetry detail.
• Make sure that ZAX engages you in conversation and doesn't sick its Sentry-Bots on you immediately, peaceful resolution should be possible here.

Great, great stuff.

Thank you for the images and the compliments. I have incorporated the images and the details about the Bullet Ant bite. As for ZAX, I will contrast with you here and I am going for a route where it is a simplified machine that thinks like an ant in itself but with machine level cognitive capability. Mainly because I don't want it to be another route for the ZAX Can so that the difficult choice between Grand Canyon and Vault 29 is still difficult rather than having an obvious out.(much like how the Vault 24 Chessmaster is a simple unit and doesn't hold the same type of memory can) and we are already pretty AI heavy (Five now total). Destroying the ZAX would still trigger the kill-switch on the Ants.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Thank you for the images and the compliments. I have incorporated the images and the details about the Bullet Ant bite. As for ZAX, I will contrast with you here and I am going for a route where it is a simplified machine that thinks like an ant in itself but with machine level cognitive capability. Mainly because I don't want it to be another route for the ZAX Can so that the difficult choice between Grand Canyon and Vault 29 is still difficult rather than having an obvious out.(much like how the Vault 24 Chessmaster is a simple unit and doesn't hold the same type of memory can) and we are already pretty AI heavy (Five now total). Destroying the ZAX would still trigger the kill-switch on the Ants.

I agree that it should be simplistic, but the sight of a human for the first time in two centuries should trigger some kind of buried memory in it. Mainly because I think it should deliver the exposition dump. Green won't give it to you, or at least he won't give you all of it (and his level of understanding of exactly what happened is not the whole story), and likewise Clarke probably won't be too interested in explaining it to you unless you're a ghoul scientist. And also because I like the concept of a peaceful resolution by talking it into a logic loop and the (very far out there) concept of Hecate making a permanent "alliance" with ZAX.

In any case, maybe you could call this line of simplistic ZAX's (including the Chessmaster) ZAX-Q, which serves as a better explanation for why scientists jokingly named it Queen.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Also, I just like it's dialogue being stupid pulp sci fi stuff like "ANTS EQUAL STRONG. HUMANS EQUAL WEAK. IT IS SIMPLE LOGIC. WE ARE THE FUTURE."

 

[Atomic Postman]

I will incorporate this but I really don't like the Hecate-ZAX alliance. Pillaging the ants to extinction for their venom like the Pit-Vipers is enough.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

I will incorporate this but I really don't like the Hecate-ZAX alliance. Pillaging the ants to extinction for their venom like the Pit-Vipers is enough.

Yeah fair enough, I just think the lesson of the Pit-Vipers might push who towards something more sustainable. But maybe that's the point, she's incapable of that.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Yeah fair enough, I just think the lesson of the Pit-Vipers might push who towards something more sustainable. But maybe that's the point, she's incapable of that.

Yeah that is the point. She's a parasite that just drains. She hasn't built anything with her confederation except more worship to herself and indulgences in her vices. Her beliefs are just regurgitation of things Diana taught her blended with her already existing tribal religion. In that way she is juxtaposed to Caesar, who whilst himself still takes from the Old World, at the very least is sharpening a future with it.

 

[Atomic Postman]

@Hardboiled Android here's the revised version of New Mexico. Pending your remaining copy-edits and a marked up version of the map, we should be wrapped up and ready for the completed version thread. Then we can rest and watch the run rise on a grateful universe.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

@Hardboiled Android here's the revised version of New Mexico. Pending your remaining copy-edits and a marked up version of the map, we should be wrapped up and ready for the completed version thread. Then we can rest and watch the run rise on a grateful universe.

Great work on the Glyphers.

I'm about 2/3rds of the way through copy edits of Arizona. Once New Mexico's done, I'm going to do one last run-through of the penultimate doc to check formatting and pictures, find replacements or in some cases make icons if applicable. Then map mark-ups, and then I get to have my life back.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Great work on the Glyphers.

I'm about 2/3rds of the way through copy edits of Arizona. Once New Mexico's done, I'm going to do one last run-through of the penultimate doc to check formatting and pictures, find replacements or in some cases make icons if applicable. Then map mark-ups, and then I get to have my life back.

It's been a long road buddy but I am very happy with what's been built here. Feels like I finally have the perfect campaign for my PnP system.