Bethesda responds to NMA's preview

mattpeckham said:
Kyuu said:
Bullshit. You're making false, negative accusations about the characters and behavior of Brother None and SuAside. That's pretty much the definition of slander, although it's a written article so I think that actually makes it libel. There is zero truth and no credible source for any claim that they made a recording or broke any rules.

And if I was making "false, negative accusations about the characters of" whoever, then it would be slander. But since I'm not, it isn't. They admitted breaking the rules, not me. And I was expressing an opinion about their blow-by-blow direct-quote coverage. Your disagreement's noted.

They had legitimate press credentials. There was no rule in effect by Bethesda that you had to reveal any and all ties to fan sites.

Whatever. If this was all hands-on-the-table, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, because NMA wouldn't have felt the need to characterize it as deceitful.

So your saying that before you do an interview, you tell the parent company of that person your life history? Your blood type? That you kissed your cousin Joe in the 5th grade?

They broke no rule. The only thing they did that could in anyway be considered deceitful is not say they were an admin on NMA. That's not even true for one of them, as he is not a admin or a mod in fact he is just a long time poster here, and told Pete Hines so in the Q&A.

So question to you, if your slated to write a preview of a big budget game(that is expected to be glowing ), but you personally didn't really care for the game the company did last, do you tell that to the person before you see there demo?

What you are stating, is that for anyone to be granted access, they should fully disclose anything and everything about themselves in essence to a company before they are allowed to see a demo. Isn't that naive? And frankly I know is not true of basically all other gaming journalists. So you are claiming NMA should be held to a higher standard becasue there not paid.
 
mattpeckham said:
They admitted breaking the rules, not me.
No they didn't. They admitted to omitting the fact that they were associated with NMA because it's common knowledge that Bethesda would probably deny them entry (which was pretty much proven given their reply to Silencer's request). If you really think that blasting a couple of individuals for gaining access to a little PR demo completely legitimately, without breaking a single actual rule in the process, while you apparently have no problem with Bethesda's PR practices or the very problematic relationship between the gaming media and game publishers in general, then I'd have to say your priorities are bit off.
 
Kyuu said:
No they didn't. They admitted to omitting the fact that they were associated with NMA because it's common knowledge that Bethesda would probably deny them entry (which was pretty much proven given their reply to Silencer's request).

Uhhhh... Okay...

If you really think that blasting a couple of individuals for gaining access to a little PR demo completely legitimately, without breaking a single actual rule in the process, while you apparently have no problem with Bethesda's PR practices or the very problematic relationship between the gaming media and game publishers in general, then I'd have to say your priorities are bit off.

You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay? Sheesh. What is it with all the bizarre wriggling here? It's like watching O.J. Simpson try on a glove...

Not to turn this into a referendum on Bethesda PR, but to put you on the spot, just what "practices" are you referring to, exactly?
 
mattpeckham said:
Kyuu said:
No they didn't. They admitted to omitting the fact that they were associated with NMA because it's common knowledge that Bethesda would probably deny them entry (which was pretty much proven given their reply to Silencer's request).

Uhhhh... Okay...

If you really think that blasting a couple of individuals for gaining access to a little PR demo completely legitimately, without breaking a single actual rule in the process, while you apparently have no problem with Bethesda's PR practices or the very problematic relationship between the gaming media and game publishers in general, then I'd have to say your priorities are bit off.

You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay? Sheesh. What is it with all the bizarre wriggling here? It's like watching O.J. Simpson try on a glove...

Not to turn this into a referendum on Bethesda PR, but to put you on the spot, just what "practices" are you referring to, exactly?


The only wriggling I see here is by you, while you grasp for straws in attempt to troll this thread.
 
You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay?
Nope, not ok. Being deceitful meant that they didn't tell about their connections to NMA, which was not breaking any rule.

I'm sorry, but I don't think it can be said any more straight. Now, care to elaborate what rules did they break or why calling themselves deceitful ment breaking rules?
 
mattpeckham said:
Fascinating. I never tried to defend gaming journalism, whatever that is. Not once. And as for paid trips, you're apparently not aware of how any of that works, i.e. publishers like Ziff and IDG don't accept them. Believe it or not, it's the fansites and non-professional news hubs that end up taking most of the payola. :(

It does not really matter. If one person takes money from a developer, claiming to be a journalist, it paints your entire profession in a very bad light. And saying there are no deals for ad-sales and things on the back end would be a lie, as that has been admitted to several times.

It would be nice if the whole industry could get some integrity back is all I really am saying. Even if there was a tiny bit of deceit involved in getting the NMA preview, the content and the people wrting the preview have integrity. The shill for IGN, Gamespy, or any where else you can't really say that of.
 
So your saying that before you do an interview, you tell the parent company of that person your life history? Your blood type? That you kissed your cousin Joe in the 5th grade?

Of course not, but that slippery slope's a non sequitur. They knew Bethesda didn't want them there, and they did it anyway. That's a problem, regardless of their otherwise terrific coverage. (Hello McFly, anyone getting that I dug their coverage?)

So question to you, if your slated to write a preview of a big budget game(that is expected to be glowing ), but you personally didn't really care for the game the company did last, do you tell that to the person before you see there demo?

Of course not, but if I know something entirely mundane like a game (as opposed to a cult ceremony) isn't intended for me, I won't try to sneak in either. If you want to air your grievances with a company's PR practices or games, you go public, you don't tiptoe around to pinch info and then turn it into a referendum on the game, the company, and your vainglorious "just doin' it for the people" self.
 
Assuming that you are the real article Matt Peckham, I want you to know that I found your blog extremely amusing to read. And I thought Russ Pitts from the Escapist Magazine was a complete moron, who obviously didn't do his research.

You seem to think that you can slander and make lies about NMA, merely because you believe that this honest preview will cause Bethesda to stop sucking up to hacks like yourself. Get a proper job, or grow some balls man.
 
Jedi_Learner said:
Assuming that you are the real article Matt Peckham, I want you to know that I found your blog extremely amusing to read. And I thought Russ Pitts from the Escapist Magazine was a complete moron, who obviously didn't do his research.

You seem to think that you can slander and make lies about NMA, merely because you believe that this honest preview will cause Bethesda to stop sucking up to hacks like yourself. Get a proper job, or grow some balls man.

Wait -- how does Russ Pitts and The Escapist come into this?
 
mattpeckham said:
Right, but look BN, let's stop dancing around the core issue. I know its 2007 and go postmodernism and everyone's decided they get to apply their own personal interpretation of what "is" is, but in reality, by your own admission, you purposefully excluded your NMA creds because you knew you wouldn't get in. I don't care, I'm not passing judgment, I'm just observing a behavior that, in aggregate, makes my job that much harder. Boohoo, I know, but true any way you shake it.

I think that's more a flaw of your job than of our behaviour, though. It really isn't NMA's fault if you guys let yourself be pushed around by game publishers.

mattpeckham said:
Forced by their own behavior? What, because Bethesda was up front about wanting to have a press only demo sans fansites, NMA's supposed to come off as heroic for sneaking in?

Sneaking in? Bethesda never explicitly told us we weren't welcome, either (until after the fact). We just chose not to notify them. By Matt Grandstaff's own, later, admittance, we were never allowed as a fansite, but he notes that since we got in as journalists, we got in, period. To my knowledge, nothing Bethesda or any industry has prescribed means that we can't write for another institution that we came for.

If I try looking at it as you are, then Bethesda was effectively blacking us out, and we got around that. I don't see how you could possibly paint us as the bad guys in that picture.

Heroic? No, we did our job, there's not heroic about that, no more than anything villainous.

There's never been a less credible source for anything in modern history.

You kind of missed the fact that the poster was referring to how you might have checked where we got our pictures and quotes, it was easy enough to check. Instead, you chose to make assumptions and go in guns blazing. I don't care what your blog is or what standards you hold it up to, but I get the impression you're just making yourself look silly with all these unfounded accusations and then violently defending them while probably knowing all of them are unfounded. A little bit of introspective workings might be needed. But hey, all your call.

When someone can openly admit what they did was deceitful while simultaneously claiming to have integrity...

You define journalistic integrity not by the way the journalist reports his information but how he gets them? That may be valid for paparazzi, but the fact that you view it that way is a really sad commentary on the state of gaming journalism.

There's nothing false in my post (I don't lay claim to anything as absolute fact).

Yes, your editings are beginning to improve it, that doesn't change the fact that you have not apologized for accusing of for taping the event and releasing ill-gotten screencaps with no basis for your accusations, or that you're personally attacking us "a couple kids without scruples." Which is just a cheap, personal, unprovoked attack. It's funny that you would actually say you're not making "false, negative accusations about the characters of." Calling us a pair of kids with no scruples isn't a false, negative accusation of our character? On what planet, exactly?

But envy? Hey, I admitted that much in the post!

*shrug* Perhaps, if you are aware of being envious, you should recompose yourself and take a long look at your neutrality in the matter, and the hot-headed nature of your accusations towards NMA.

You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay?

How so? What rule did we break? What rule of Bethesda said "you must reveal all affiliations to any sites and provide a list of sites you'll write for"? Had they asked who we were going to write for, we'd have no choice to either supply the list with "NMA" on it, or to lie and break the rules. But they didn't ask, so we broke no rules.

PS: I think Pete was a bit annoyed with me. I sat right next to him, the constant scratch-scratch-scratch must've got on his nerves. Maybe that will RUIN RELATIONS WITH BETHESDA FOREVER OH NOEZ?
 
Don't a fair few 'real' journalists post here anyway? - They go to these press events, then often discuss the game and respond to queries on the fan forums - does that make them all deceitful and dishonest? I'm sure if Pete had asked, they would have given an honest answer.

The fact BN is admitting he feels slightly deceitful for not telling them, has more to do with him having integrity than it does with breaking rules. He didn't have to tell them - he had a media card, they let him in. They never said no one with a forum affiliation is allowed, nor did they deny participants permission to discuss events on forums after the event. Whether they wanted him there or not is irrelevent, they let him in and (to my knowledge) never explicitly stated 'Brother None' and 'Suaside' - Not Allowed.
you're apparently not aware of how any of that works, i.e. publishers like Ziff and IDG don't accept them. Believe it or not, it's the fansites and non-professional news hubs that end up taking most of the payola.
Hrmm, funny that the Washington Post article described how most of the attendees at Bethesda's press event, to which only the mainstream press were invited, drank from the chalice. No fans were invited - did a lot of the lavish stuff go to waste then?

I also find it amusing that you pen an argument targeted at NMA, base it predominantly on lies (recording, etc), and now defend it by claiming nothing was stated as 'absolute fact'. That really is gold, I think I just saw your credibility do a nose dive. Aren't facts meant to be the basis in all real works of journalism?

On the subject of recording, I think the pro journo's are the masters there (from the early F3 presentations):

Gee, I wonder how many rules that guy broke. Why don't you do a scathing article on how his actions meant you could, still, get into the next press event?
 
mattpeckham said:
The only wriggling I see here is by you, while you grasp for straws in attempt to troll this thread.

Now I'm trolling? What are you reading from, the Forums for Dummies playbook? ;)

You're over-exaggerating their actions and attempting to cause a stir. I'd call what you're doing trolling.

Nice try with the 'wit' though. You must be the writer for a video game blog or something. I'm sure you make a lot of fans with that douche bag repartee'.
 
Yeah, Wooz wasn't just posting for fluffer material, metalboss, when he says "try to keep it civil," you try to keep it civil. No backseat modding to accuse people of trolling, no "you're a douche bag" or whatever.

Keep it civil. More posts of this type, from anyone, will be vatted
 
Brother None said:
I think that's more a flaw of your job than of our behaviour, though. It really isn't NMA's fault if you guys let yourself be pushed around by game publishers.

Fair enough, but you got your coverage and you got your 10,000 words, and you're more than welcome to take shots at me, but I'm allowed my grousing too.

If I try looking at it as you are, then Bethesda was effectively blacking us out, and we got around that. I don't see how you could possibly paint us as the bad guys in that picture.

I'm sure you're just fine, and I wouldn't call you "bad guys," and no doubt we'd have plenty to gab about (Fallout, etc.) over a beer. But we're stuck at loggerheads over methodologies, so there it is.

You define journalistic integrity not by the way the journalist reports his information but how he gets them? That may be valid for paparazzi, but the fact that you view it that way is a really sad commentary on the state of gaming journalism.

Who said anything about "journalistic"?

Yes, your editings are beginning to improve it, that doesn't change the fact that you have not apologized for accusing of for taping the event and releasing ill-gotten screencaps with no basis for your accusations, or that you're personally attacking us "a couple kids without scruples." Which is just a cheap, personal, unprovoked attack.

Let's see. You deceived Bethesda (your word, not mine). You can either take responsibility for that, or keep claiming the moral high ground. (I'm not holding my breath here, by the way.)

You should recompose yourself and take a long look at your neutrality in the matter, and the hot-headed nature of your accusations towards NMA.

"Kind of disappointed" amounts to "hot-headed"?

How so? What rule did we break? What rule of Bethesda said "you must reveal all affiliations to any sites and provide a list of sites you'll write for"? Had they asked who we were going to write for, we'd have no choice to either supply the list with "NMA" on it, or to lie and break the rules. But they didn't ask, so we broke no rules.

Right, so acting deceitfully...just a slip of the tongue?
 
mattpeckham said:
Fair enough, but you got your coverage and you got your 10,000 words, and you're more than welcome to take shots at me, but I'm allowed my grousing too.

I'm unaware of taking shots at you to provoke your post. I'm unaware, in fact, of taking shots at anyone, though I do not hide my displeasure at the gaming media in general.

mattpeckham said:
Who said anything about "journalistic"?

"General" integrity always has to toe the line of ends justifying the means. Once you consider what you get out of it is way more than the risk of it, you just go for it.

Now, was I wrong in my mindset when I went there in thinking "Bethesda won't be happy, but if it hurts anyone's relations with them, it'll be NMA's, no one else's"? Possibly, according to you, yes, but until we actually see them going beserk locked-gate-crazy, as you seem to expect, it's a pretty academic question.

mattpeckham said:
Let's see. You deceived Bethesda (your word, not mine). You can either take responsibility for that, or keep claiming the moral high ground. (I'm not holding my breath here, by the way.)

That has nothing to do with what I just said. You said you made no "false, negative accusations about the characters of" me and SuA. I point out you call us "a couple kids without scruples." I never admitted to being a child, and I think I posses significantly more scruples than some of the suck-ups I've seen in the industry. You seem to think omitting to mention *one thing* to Bethesda while *legitimitaly* covering their game means I have no scruples at all. I doubt you're going to be able to back those statements up in any way. I haven't really seen you try.

mattpeckham said:
"Kind of disappointed" amounts to "hot-headed"?

No, accusing us of things without having any proof is a hot-headed action to take. I think any reasonable person would feel ashamed for accusing a couple of guys of things and then being called on not being able to prove it. You're apparently above that.

mattpeckham said:
Right, so acting deceitfully...just a slip of the tongue?

Hah, for someone trying to be clever, you suck at semantics. I already stated several posts up I felt I acted deceitfully, but did not break any rules. You then state "You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay?" I just proved we didn't break any rules. Rather than trying to slip under it, please point out what *rule* we broke.
 
Brother None said:
I'm unaware of taking shots at you to provoke your post. I'm unaware, in fact, of taking shots at anyone, though I do not hide my displeasure at the gaming media in general.

Sorry, I meant, literally, that you're welcome to, not that you were. And I share your displeasure with the press. See my post here:

http://blogs.pcworld.com/gameon/archives/005202.html

And check the link at the top to the Gamasutra piece. I inspired that piece nearly a year ago, and almost co-wrote it with Shawn.

Now, was I wrong in my mindset when I went there in thinking "Bethesda won't be happy, but if it hurts anyone's relations with them, it'll be NMA's, no one else's"? Possibly, according to you, yes, but until we actually see them going beserk locked-gate-crazy, as you seem to expect, it's a pretty academic question.

Fine, but conversely, I'm not waiting for hurricanes in Iowa in 2050 to push for emissions reforms today.

That has nothing to do with what I just said. You said you made no "false, negative accusations about the characters of" me and SuA. I point out you call us "a couple kids without scruples." I never admitted to being a child, and I think I posses significantly more scruples than some of the suck-ups I've seen in the industry. You seem to think omitting to mention *one thing* to Bethesda while *legitimitaly* covering their game means I have no scruples at all. I doubt you're going to be able to back those statements up in any way. I haven't really seen you try.

I don't know that I have or haven't made false accusations, firstly. I certainly expressed an opinion. Has Michael Jackson had any work done? No one really knows for sure, but plenty of people speculate all the time.

Hah, for someone trying to be clever, you suck at semantics. I already stated several posts up I felt I acted deceitfully, but did not break any rules. You then state "You can't be "deceitful" and not break the rules, okay?" I just proved we didn't break any rules. Rather than trying to slip under it, please point out what *rule* we broke.

The one where Bethesda disallowed NMA from attending, and you went anyway. You could've avoided any disparity by excluding yourself from the NMA write-up, by the way.
 
mattpeckham said:
I don't know that I have or haven't made false accusations, firstly. I certainly expressed an opinion. Has Michael Jackson had any work done? No one really knows for sure, but plenty of people speculate all the time.
you have already been pointed out that there are no screencaps, no video and what not. the origins of the intro have been revealed as have the pictures that led you to believe we took screencaps somehow (i'd love for you to tell how we should have done that btw. put on gas masks, pumped in knockout gas, take screens with the Xbrick and then act as if nothing happened?)

but you still keep holding on to that you didnt make false accusations? you openly accused us of videotaping (sorry, we dont have the budget for james bond cameras) and screencapping stuff (at that quality? bloody un-fucking-likely...). yet you fail to acknowledge this?

you also accused us of being kids, which we obviously arent. (or did you prefer to speak to our mommy & daddy to be sure?)

mattpeckham said:
The one where Bethesda disallowed NMA from attending, and you went anyway. You could've avoided any disparity by excluding yourself from the NMA write-up, by the way.
maybe because we represented other media as well? just a wild guess.


you can hold on to rhetoric instead of facts as much as you want to, but i fear it is blatantly obvious to everyone except you where this is headed...
 
I'm sorry for doing this, but could someone clarify a few things for me? Did Bethesda say they wouldn't allow NMA to their showing? If so, did they say it before or after the fact? Also, did they say why they didn't want NMA to come?

I'm seeing conflicting stories, and I just want to get this straight.
 
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