Bethesda retitled their forums

[Brother None]

Bethesda retitled their forums from the Elder Scrolls forums into the Bethesda Game Studios forums. Briosafreak notes the following:<blockquote>From Ashley Cheng’s blog, Bethsoft producer:

This is a subtle change but we’ve rebranded our forums. Instead of just being the official Elder Scrolls forums, its now called the Bethesda Game Studios forums.

Notice that the tags for this post are Oblivion and… Fallout 3.

I think you can connect the dots.</blockquote>Link: BethSoft forums

Addendum: Ashley Cheng removed the Fallout 3 tag with the note "whoops. not supposed to have oblivion or fallout 3 tag. I fixed it." We can still assume renaming it from ESF to BGS is a step towards hosting a Fallout 3 forum there someday, but that's not too surprising.

 

[Starwars]

You know, everytime I see their logo on the forum, I think of the Empire in Star Wars.

I wonder when they will open a Fallout 3 section of the forums. I suppose a good time will be after they've showed the game off for the first time. It will probably be a warzone, hehe.

 

[Angrim]

I actually registered there now... And spent a few minutes reading the forums.

Sweet Jesus. At first I read topic of all time best RPGs and there are people that don't know about Fallout and think that Fable is great RPG.

I think I am not posting there until the Fallout 3 forums start. Actually, I am not quite sure if I am going to post there even then. Hmm.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Not that it matters if they do have a FO3 forum. That place is moderated so heavy-handedly, it would make the Cheka blush.

 

[Angrim]

Yeah, I know. I'll probably be banned there pretty soon when/if the Fo3 forum is opened, even though I am not going to flame anyone or anything.

 

[Briosafreak]

Well I hope not, I think we should pay more attention to the way things are run there. After a few posts like these:

All the original Fallout fans are in real prison and have been denied internet access due to bad behavior. The ones you see are the new age that just picked it up a few years ago because they heard you could kill children...
If mature things couldn't be discussed by immature people, Fallout fans wouldn't exist. The thread locking is simply an attempt to keep their kind out, a well-informed and wise decision I would say...
Most Fallout fans are 12, act like they're 8, and are posting from the Alabama Youth Detention Center.

I left a post there in reply:

Ok this is how it works, the mods and admins stop this type of trolling, and we at NMA (can't talk about the other places) will try to motivate the Fans that listen to us and use a constructive and civil approach when coming here. This will be like the Van Buren/Fallout3 days at the Interplay forum, we opened bridges between the devs and the community outside the forum and called for constructive criticisms and a proactive but positive attitude on one hand, but functioned as "an eye for an eye" too when provoked. It's your choice.

So keep it civil, you don't have to refrain from posting your inner thoughts and worries, you can complain but don't start flame wars. If you are provoked then it's perfectly logic that you reply back, but lets not give them any excuse to start mass bannings and black listings ok?

Edit: And don't forget either that every post about Fallout 3 at NMA is read by Bethesda developers, if you didn't knew that already.

Edit again: Ashley removed the tags after a comment from Kharn, still we all saw them

 

[RPG of the year!!]

Ok this is how it works, the mods and admins stop this type of trolling, and we at NMA (can't talk about the other places) will try to motivate the Fans that listen to us and use a constructive and civil approach when coming here. This will be like the Van Buren/Fallout3 days at the Interplay forum, we opened bridges between the devs and the community outside the forum and called for constructive criticisms and a proactive but positive attitude on one hand, but functioned as "an eye for an eye" too when provoked. It's your choice.

I'm sorry, but... Bahahah.

It should be more than clear at this point that Bethesda possesses an intentional blindness towards criticism and suggestions, regardless of how deep one curtsies while giving them. Todd Howard is not J.E. Sawyer and Bethsoft is not Black Isle.

Like Chucky before them, their M.O. is to craft a singular "creative vision" and never deviate from it or acknowledge its faults, despite how clueless and backwards that vision is. Witness! The Amazing Toddster and his refusal to concede that Oblivion is anything less than a hardcore cRPG masterpiece and the best TES yet, or that level scaling was poorly implemented, or that 99% of mutliple quest solutions offer the compelling choice between "Do I kill him with an axe/sword/bow?" and "Do I kill him with magic?".

Those have been the chief complaints among Bethesda's own fanbase for quite some time, and the official response to their constructive criticism is "Nuh-uh, nuh-uh!". And when constructive criticism is not coming from faithful citizens of The Fatherland, the official response is mass bannings and blacklistings followed by a poor excuse. Remember; the RPGCodex was blacklisted shortly after their remarkably tame TES: Oblivion review, and Startrek Gamers was blacklisted for constructively criticizing Star Trek: Legacy, a game Bethesda had simply published.

You've got good intentions, but what you're calling for is unapplicable to Todd'N'the Gang to put it mildly.

And don't forget either that every post about Fallout 3 at NMA is read by Bethesda developers, if you didn't knew that already.

Oh boy, that sure is neat! It's just too bad that TES: Oblivion, Star Trek: Legacy, and Fallout 3(in all of its realtime Xbox360 splendor) have proven, to the point of excruciating redundancy, that the notion Bethesda still factors fan criticism and suggestions into their creative process is nothing more than a poorly kept public relations façade.

 

[Bunkermensch]

And don't forget either that every post about Fallout 3 at NMA is read by Bethesda developers, if you didn't knew that already.

Like a spy hidden in the dark hearing every word we say.
Don't forget, Big Bethesda is watching you!

 

[Brother None]

You've got good intentions, but what you're calling for is unapplicable to Todd'N'the Gang to put it mildly.

Sure, but what are the alternatives?

The fact that there's no direct correlation with the JE Sawyer-situation doesn't mean that a kind of dichotomic logic can be applied and that by definition ipse dixet a direct comparison can be drawn to the Chucky situation.

Wouldn't you say the Tactics situation is the most obvious historical parallel? We can't change their minds, we can't prevent the project, but what then is our job? Fighting tooth and claw to make it fail or working to save what we can? Or rather, isn't it both, working to save what we can and then fighting it tooth and claw if what we could save wasn't enough...

No?

 

[Briosafreak]

Here it is, the anouncement a Fallout3 forum is coming

As you can tell, we have updated the forums. These are now the Bethesda Game Studios forums. These forums will cover all games that we develop in-house. This does not include games we only publish like (Rogue Warrior, Cthulhu, Star Trek, etc.) those will have/or have their own separate forums.

Eventually, when we are closer to releasing more information, you will see a Fallout 3 forum here, as well as any future TES games we may work on.

Over the next few days, we'll be tweaking these forum skins, so if you have any problems or comments, let us know.

 

[RPG of the year!!]

Sure, but what are the alternatives?

The best alternative is to not be lulled into the false pretense that Bethesda will act upon our feedback, because the "constructive and civil approach" presupposes that they actually will.

They haven't played ball with the Fallout community yet, nor will they ever. They didn't play ball with the Elder Scrolls and Star Trek communities, either... Except in the sense of PR spin. Hence it's absolutely pointless for the Fallout community to waste its time attempting to play ball with Auntie Beth.

The fact that there's no direct correlation with the JE Sawyer-situation doesn't mean that a kind of dichotomic logic can be applied and that by definition ipse dixet a direct comparison can be drawn to the Chucky situation.

Come on. Are you saying you don't see parallels between Bethesda and the Chucky situation? Let's see... News shortage? Check. Early interaction with fans that lost steam and petered(pun intended) out? Check. Being developed for Xbox? Check. Vague non-commital answers about vital design components? Check. A clueless lead producer who doesn't understand Fallout in the slightest despite claiming otherwise? Check. The exact same arguments that were used to defend FO:BoS now being used to defend Bethesda's Fallout 3? Checketty check check.

Wouldn't you say the Tactics situation is the most obvious historical parallel?

...
What the fuck?

No. The Fallout community was able to exert an immense influence over MicroForté, right down to an individual basis. Roshambo liked to bring up the fact that he was essentially responsible for the existence of a worldmap in FO: Tactics, for example. But it didn't happen through willpower, or determination, or some other such inspirational bullshit. It happened for the simple fact that MicroForté was open to being influenced by the FO community.

Bethesda isn't. Period, no leeway, do not pass go.

They aren't open to influence from the FO community, or the Star Trek community, or even the Elder Scrolls community. Although they are interested in one-sidedly influencing said communities, but that's a different matter entirely.

We can't change their minds, we can't prevent the project, but what then is our job? Fighting tooth and claw to make it fail or working to save what we can? Or rather, isn't it both, working to save what we can and then fighting it tooth and claw if what we could save wasn't enough...

No?

Answer me this. How can the FO community save something that isn't within its power to save? Bethesda isn't open to our influence no matter how nicely we say "pwetty pwease". So what are we supposed to do? Break into their office, steal their sourcecode, and drive it over the Mexican border? Threaten to hold our breath until we drop dead? Clap our hands and believe?

STG tried to save what they could of Legacy. You know where that got them.

Why do we magically have the chance to succeed where two other, larger, fan communities made, and continue to make, zero progress? Bethesda's reciever ain't on the hook, Kharn. Face it or not.

 

[Mangler]

You forget this is the rudest, nastiest downright insane'est bunch of fanatical fans on the 'net.

We will bring a war of words to their forum they will NEVER forget.

Beth' may not listen, but I'd bet we could twist a bunch of Oblivion-fans to our unique viewpoint. We can open their eyes to what Bethseda really has in store.

Where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Goweigus]

Our viewpoint is not unique!

Its is truth and honesty! We know best what a Fallout game should be!


hmm anyone have an educated guess as to how long it will be until they make the Fallout 3 forum? People in the forum seem to think it will be soon because of the announcement.

 

[Metzer]

hmm but the thing is that alot of the people that play the RPG's like TES arnt real gamers. they havent truley experinced great games like fallout and the feeling you get from playing them. they belive 100% that games like the TES Morrowind and Oblivion are the best RPG's ever made. now dosnt this make you think that they blindly folow what ever bethsda brings out or says. this means that no matter how hard we try we wont be able to convince any of there fans IMO cause they are mindless.

but yes this is a very harsh forum community that belives in how FO3 should be very passionatly we might be able to get a few changes if we try really hard but i can see that the chances of that happening to be very slim indeed.

 

[Bradylama]

We can't exactly act belligerent on Bethesda boards because it gives beth mods an easy excuse to blacklist us completely. I'm not particularly losing sleep over the prospect, but criticism has to come from somewhere other than the Fatherland, and it needs to be presented in a manner that gets die Howard Jugend to listen.

I mean, let's face it, nothing we say is going to affect this project in any spectacular way, the best we can hope for is to make clear to Beth forum regulars why Fallout 3 will be a shit game.

It's either that or Beth closes the Fallout 3 forums for "maintenance."

 

[taxacaria]

The name of the forum doesn't matter.
Or has "ElderScrollsForum" saved TES from Oblivion?
They will fuck the franchise, that's the problem - nothing else.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Bethesda forums are a cesspool of ignorance and vapidity. Most of the kids there were in kindergarten when Fallout was released. They think Oblivion is the high water mark of RPG-dom, so trying to discuss cRPGs with any logic or reason is a Sisyphean task.

Let them wallow in their banality.

 

[Davaris]

It's either that or Beth closes the Fallout 3 forums for "maintenance."

I think its inevitable, because they don't know what they're letting themselves in for. There are no fans quite like Fallout fans.

 

[Mick1965]

Bethesda won't give a shit what we say on their forums, the development team probably won't even read the posts. The only outcome from Fallout fans posting on these forums is that it will create some excitment in the otherwise dull lives of the forum moderators as they go on a black banning spree.

And why should we be nice to Bethesda in an effort to sway their opinion? Bethesda couldn't create a decent RPG to save themselves. At best they create very average graphics heavy action adventure games. And, shock horror, if they did listen to us, at the end of the day an isometric piece of shit is still a piece of shit.

Mick

 

[SNorth]

What really gets me is that even Mighty Wal-Mart listens to criticisms and continually changes. If the most powerful retailer in the world realizes that you must listen to your critics, then why can't/or how can't a game developer do the same? The whole idea in retail is to get the customer to come back. Retention. Every day they compare their customer counts against the previous year and try to figure out why there is a drop(if there is one) and why the customer spent more or less on that given day.

The whole key to whether this game is successful or not will probably devolve on how good the leadership team is at listening. If you listen to your customers and your employees you have a good chance of keeping both happy. Balance what worked before versus what people don't like about your products.

One final question for all of you. How many of you would have been estatic over just new areas of the Fallout world to explore? So much time and effort was wasted when the same engine could have been used for quite a while.

I'm waiting for a demo. All questions answered then.