Brotherhood of Steel as an antagonist?

[Landonio]

Bethesda made the Brotherhood turn off in a weird way. Instead of a purely technology-focused group, they have turned into the saviors of the wasteland. Of course, they noticed this and made the outcasts, but come on.

I'm going off of that the Brotherhood sent people out in airships that crashed in Chicago. No, this will not be a remake of FO: Tactics.

You could be a tribal in a small, but thriving tribe. You are a small child when you see the airships crash far away. Your village sends scouts to look at it. They don't return.

Time skip to whenever you are an adult.

There is a ceremony and a test in your tribe for adulthood. You must prove your worth by traveling the wasteland and bringing something of value to prove your adventures. The problem is, there are few adults left.

Almost everybody who has been sent out on the ceremony has not come back ever since the airships crash, and rumors are spreading from scouts about hulking machine-men roaming the hills.

Eventually you find Saint Louis, a city that was ravaged by war. Many civilized people have made small towns, and have noticed a faction called the Brotherhood roaming around, harassing people for technology. It seems that they steadily grow in numbers, also, and that the new guys are young adults.

Eventually you find out that the BoS has been kidnapping tribals in order to make their numbers bigger.

I think that the brotherhood needs this antagonistic turn to show that saving the wasteland's people was not their main purpose.

 

[Sub-Human]

The Midwest assholes weren't exactly canon. It'd be fun to go around and kick their asses of course. But still.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

They are. Confirmed by F3 and F:NV.
But Midwest BoS makes non-sense as antagonist because "There's also a small detachment in Chicago, but they're off the radar.", not the mighty empire after defeating Calculator.

 

[Gurkog]

How fucking up the canon a bit by starting in a town populated by tribals who worship super mutants. Tribal elders are exposed to FEV as part of their ascension into a superior, god-like state.

Brotherhood asshats find out about some group of spear chucking idiots purposely creating a small super mutant army and decide to take out the threat they pose. You will be the only survivor of the 'cleansing' with an end goal of taking out the local technofetish chapter.

 

[For NCR]

They would make a strong enemy. I would like to see a large scale BoS group who hates your faction for some reason.

 

[mapsmith]

Would love to see BOS cast as morally corrupt. No person is perfect as no group is perfect. Most Mobs are capable of massive atrocities as in the Salem Witch trials.

 

[Renegadexss]

I still think BoS will be a small faction just like in NV

 

[TorontoReign]

I still think BoS will be a small faction just like in NV

I hope so....or not in the game at all. New factions are desperately needed. I would rather see the Legion again personally.

 

[Mameluk]

How about that: if Brotherhood is a splinter of American army that Maxson lead and forged into what we know today, what if there was another splinter, still wearing power armors but having totally different point of view on the wasteland and people living there? A new faction in the image of the old one, but maybe?

 

[SnapSlav]

How about that: if Brotherhood is a splinter of American army that Maxson lead and forged into what we know today, what if there was another splinter, still wearing power armors but having totally different point of view on the wasteland and people living there? A new faction in the image of the old one, but maybe?

There's already a group like that. They're called the Enclave.

Not even being sarcastic, that's EXACTLY what the Enclave is. A group descended from pre-war American Military that had their own power armor, and they went from a morally bankrupt group and eventually became a genocidal group of self-righteous psychopaths powered by delusions-of-grandeur... and newer, better power armor.

Frankly, I don't get why people hate on the Midwest Brotherhood. They're the best incarnation of the Brotherhood that exists! They have some leaders with strong, racial supremacist leanings, but the most notorious one was killed off, so it's not necessarily true that their leadership would still be influenced by strong xenophobia. At their very core they're against isolationism and they believe in using their resources to help the communities around them, even if they do so somewhat dogmatically, or run their services like a business. In short, they're cool, and they aren't self-righteous champions of justice yet isolationist hypocrites like the East Coast chapter.

If the Midwest Brotherhood were to possibly splinter into smaller factions (thus explaining why they're not regarding as a major power when they're brought up in FO3/FONV) due to some form of strife or civil war, and one of those factions- maybe the most powerful in a couple ways -were to become an antagonist, I could see that, and appreciate it. Hell, maybe the player in this for-the-time-being-fantasy would even be a new Initiate from one of the "better" splinter groups? The possibilities are limitless, as long as you possess a creative mind...

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Frankly, I don't get why people hate on the Midwest Brotherhood.

You know, it's self-righteous technophile regime, poeple don't like them. ; )

 

[Mameluk]

There's already a group like that. They're called the Enclave.
Not even being sarcastic, that's EXACTLY what the Enclave is. A group descended from pre-war American Military that had their own power armor, and they went from a morally bankrupt group and eventually became a genocidal group of self-righteous psychopaths powered by delusions-of-grandeur... and newer, better power armor.

Wasn't Enclave consisting of government/corporations officials AND military?

Frankly, I don't get why people hate on the Midwest Brotherhood.

You know, It's self-righteous technophile regime, poeple don't like them. ; )

Still better than those isolationist pricks from California and later Nevada

I agree with Snap on that matter, Mid-Western Brotherhood was more likeable and legitimate when compared to the original one, but not as cartoonishly chivalrous like that on the East Coast. Unlike the former it knows how to survive and keep up with changing world and unlike the latter it doesn't lose its character. It would be interesting to be involved in a conflict that decides the fate of Mid-West Brotherhood, especially since it's logically the only legitimate continuation of primary chapter, knowing that NCR will do anything to annihilate them in Core Region and Mojave as they pose a danger to their power over the region.

 

[SnapSlav]

Frankly, I don't get why people hate on the Midwest Brotherhood.

You know, it's self-righteous technophile regime, poeple don't like them. ; )

Yeah.... WHAT self-righteous technophile regime? I don't think you even know what the Midwest Brotherhood was! They scavenged a bit for tech, but that wasn't their focus; they also stressed avoiding doing so if it compromised the lives of neighboring friendly settlements. They had entire missions that conveyed this point. It also wasn't due to some delusions of chivalry and nobility. Providing services in exchange for recruits to bolster their own numbers (so they could be self-sufficient) was their core philosophy. They were founded by Paladins, so their structure was more militaristic than the other Brotherhood factions, and less analytical or technology-obsessed. Also unlike all the other BOS factions, they took a proactive stance on dealing with their surrounding threats, but it was to ensure their own survival, and sell their neighbors on continuing to supply them with their ever-needed recruits.

So where were they self-righteous or technophilic? I think you're confusing the Midwest BOS with some of the other groups... Maybe even the non-canonical FOBOS faction.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

So where were they self-righteous or technophilic?

They don't share any technology to outside realms, destroying any opposition (Reavers etc.), which they meet.

If someone isn't threat, they just annex them.

For example, even original BoS under tolerant leaders give technology to NCR, allowing them to great growth. And main thing, they allow everyone to be independent, even under Maxson IV rule.

Imperialistic Midwestern BOS expand indefinitely, which always lead to utterly collapse, what actually happened.

Their scribes don't even know who Roger Maxsos was, what clearly shows their decadence.

 

[Mameluk]

They don't share any technology to outside realms, destroying any opposition (Reavers etc.), which they meet.

In the intro you can see how they trade weaponry for food, and it's highly probably they still do so during Tactics.
Also, Reavers themselves offered to cooperate with Brotherhood.

If someone isn't threat, they just annex them.

Examples of such annexation? They helped clean Brahmin Wood out of Raiders and left, only later tribals started to join the ranks. Mayor of Quincy asked them to help and they obliged. They could claim Preoria for fusion batteries but instead they helped the village in its bug problems in exchange for a few of said batteries. I've played Tactics a long time ago, so either I don't remember correctly whether they annexed anybody, or you're just making Mid-West BOS look like NCR.

Imperialistic Midwestern BOS expand indefinitely, which always lead to utterly collapse, what actually happened.

Which leads to a question: which is better - to unite the wasteland under one banner and bring civilization there or to wait until wastelanders reach an optimal level of development and then maintain contact? Since Californian BOS is doing the latter, it's good to see some other BOS doing the former.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

During Fallout: Tactics they are semi-good, but later they went decadent and everything implodes. I'm not saying they were always bad boys, but in overall they are. Even canonical Fallout: Tactics ending is very optimistic, showing midwestern BoS as knights in shinig armors, but as we learn from F:NV and FO3, they weren't.

For the sake of disscusion, these canonical ending.
[spoiler:8a052cee87]When the acrid smoke clears nothing remains of the entity known as the Calculator except burnt wires and broken valves. It is a decisive victory for humanity, for at a crucial point in the raging battle the robots were stopped dead in their course of destruction. The Warrior can only ponder on the lost opportunity that the destruction of such a technological marvel represents, history has shown that even the victors of battle have some regrets but sometimes one must move forward. The Brotherhood is quick to establish Vault 0 as its main base of operations, all though much destruction was wrought here it still represents a massive store house of knowledge and technology. The ancient structure becomes the central hub of operations, coordinating between outposts far and near and reinforcing their supply lines and transport routes across the countryside. Ironically mimicking the original purpose of their defeated enemy.
Recruitment and education of the local tribal and village populations becomes the all important mission of the depleted and wounded Brotherhood but the education is not once sided, after generations of surviving in the harshness of the wastelands the indigenous people are in tune with the land. They have valuable lessons to teach those immersed solely with technology, lessons of nature and balance that the Brotherhood had previously neglected. Not all of the wasteland's inhabitants are sharing the same noble purpose, opportunistic raiders and bandits enjoy the fruits of a recovering war torn Brotherhood. Patrols are scarce and in smaller numbers than the thieves remember encountering in the past, as the Brotherhood focuses on consolidating its power base. Several frontier outposts are lost as the Brotherhood finds they are fighting a guerrilla war without the support of large numbers, but adversity and hardship are as familiar to the Brotherhood as discipline and knowledge and they learn their lessons quickly. With a new power over this region comes a new responsibility, all plans for re-establishing contact with the west are postponed indefinitely.
Recruitment begins anew and the initiate ranks swell, all military efforts are then concentrated on uprooting all outlaw predators in the region finally making it safe for the Brotherhood and its allies. In time the Brotherhood once again rules the land, resources are then allocated to expansion and development. Technology becomes more widespread, with irrigation systems established to make the nuclear blasted land fertile, humanity once again starts to prosper. The Hero, the warrior of the Brotherhood, now a general, shares the burden and the satisfaction of overseeing civilization's development. The Brotherhood of Steel has come through the trials of this region and emerged scarred but wiser, it will be decades before a reunion is possible between the old Brotherhood and the new Brotherhood regime. In that time there are new alliances to be made, new battles to be fought, new victories to be had but that is a tale for another day.[/spoiler:8a052cee87]

That map shows, they annex what they can.
[spoiler:8a052cee87]

[/spoiler:8a052cee87]

In time the Brotherhood once again rules the land, resources are then allocated to expansion and development

Several frontier outposts are lost as the Brotherhood finds they are fighting a guerrilla war without the support of large numbers,

That 2 citates and map indicates they were too imperialistic to survive. NCR will collapse like them, as you can see beetwen them a lot of similarities

 

[Mameluk]

Brotherhood in F3 and F:NV are splinters from original BOS in California as far as I remember; the Mid-Western Brotherhood is never mentioned again after Tactics, which even doesn't make any ending canonical, as we simply don't know what happened there.
But I'll give you this one: they surely went on expansion after Calculator's dismay but until a continuation of Tactics comes out we can only speculate whether they survived or collapsed there.

 

[Renegadexss]

I could see the BoS in the new game being like Joshua Graham and teaching outsiders their ways and becoming a large force because of this as it seems to be a theme with it in Fo3 and depending on what you did in NV as well.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Serious Mameluk? Look at my 1 post in this thread.

Reginald Rothchild from F3 about Midwestern BoS: "There's also a small detachment in Chicago, but they're off the radar. Gone rogue. Long story"

Also, Caesar in F:NV said that Caesar's Legion caught some BoS scribes from Colorado, who didn't know who Roger Maxson was, what cleary shows they decadence and fall.

Also, that one is canonical, every other ending have robots. As Reginald said, it's small detachment, not mighty empire with robots. Also, if midwestern BoS have robots, then they would control Colorado, not Caesar's Legion and that Legion could not cought those scribes. Obvious is obvious.

Learn lore, then object.

 

[Mameluk]

Reginald Rothchild from F3 about Midwestern BoS: "There's also a small detachment in Chicago, but they're off the radar. Gone rogue. Long story"

Didn't he mean by that they broke contact with original Brotherhood and separated themselves (went rogue)? Was he referring specifically to 2277?

Also, Caesar in F:NV said that Caesar's Legion caught some BoS scribes from Colorado, who didn't know who Roger Maxson was, what cleary shows they decadence and fall.

You got me here, but that still doesn't prove whether Mid-West returned to anarchy or whether local BOS is still standing. Caesar also states NCR is decadent and gets his ass kicked in 3 out of 4 endings