Buy Stamps to send Email

Daemon Spawn

Old Warrior of the Wastes
From cnn.com:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/internet/03/05/spam.charge.ap/index.html

CNN.com said:
NEW YORK (AP) -- If the U.S. Postal Service delivered mail for free, our mailboxes would surely runneth over with more credit-card offers, sweepstakes entries, and supermarket fliers. That's why we get so much junk e-mail: It's essentially free to send. So Microsoft Corp. chairman Bill Gates, among others, is now suggesting that we start buying "stamps" for e-mail.

Many Internet analysts worry, though, that turning e-mail into an economic commodity would undermine its value in democratizing communication. But let's start with the math: At perhaps a penny or less per item, e-mail postage wouldn't significantly dent the pocketbooks of people who send only a few messages a day. Not so for spammers who mail millions at a time.

Though postage proposals have been in limited discussion for years -- a team at Microsoft Research has been at it since 2001 -- Gates gave the idea a lift in January at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Details came last week as part of Microsoft's anti-spam strategy. Instead of paying a penny, the sender would "buy" postage by devoting maybe 10 seconds of computing time to solving a math puzzle. The exercise would merely serve as proof of the sender's good faith.

Time is money, and spammers would presumably have to buy many more machines to solve enough puzzles. The open-source software Hashcash, available since about 1997, takes a similar approach and has been incorporated into other spam-fighting tools including Camram and Spam Assassin.

Meanwhile, Goodmail Systems Inc. has been in touch with Yahoo! Inc. and other e-mail providers about using cash. Goodmail envisions charging bulk mailers a penny a message to bypass spam filters and avoid being incorrectly tossed as junk. That all sounds good for curbing spam, but what if it kills the e-mail you want as well?

Consider how simple and inexpensive it is today to e-mail a friend, relative, or even a city-hall bureaucrat. It's nice not to have to calculate whether greeting grandma is worth a cent. And what of the communities now tied together through e-mail -- hundreds of cancer survivors sharing tips on coping; dozens of parents coordinating soccer schedules? Those pennies add up.

"It detracts from your ability to speak and to state your opinions to large groups of people," said David Farber, a veteran technologist who runs a mailing list with more than 20,000 subscribers. "It changes the whole complexion of the net."

Goodmail chief executive Richard Gingras said individuals might get to send a limited number for free, while mailing lists and nonprofit organizations might get price breaks.

But at what threshold would e-mail cease to be free? At what point might a mailing list be big or commercial enough to pay full rates? Goodmail has no price list yet, so Gingras couldn't say. Vint Cerf, one of the Internet's founding fathers, said spammers are bound to exploit any free allotments.

"The spammers will probably just keep changing their mailbox names," Cerf said. "I continue to be impressed by the agility of spammers." And who gets the payments? How do you build and pay for a system to track all this? How do you keep such a system from becoming a target for hacking and scams?

The proposals are also largely U.S.-centric, and even with seamless currency conversion, paying even a token amount would be burdensome for the developing world, said John Patrick, former vice president of Internet technology at IBM Corp.

"We have to think of not only, let's say, the relatively well-off half billion people using e-mail today, but the 5 or 6 billion who aren't using it yet but who soon will be," Patrick said.

Some proposals even allow recipients to set their own rates. A college student might accept e-mail with a one-cent stamp; a busy chief executive might demand a dollar.

"In the regular marketplace, when you have something so fast and efficient that everyone wants it, the price goes up," said Sonia Arrison of the Pacific Research Institute, a think tank that favors market-based approaches.

To think the Internet can shatter class distinctions that exist offline is "living in Fantasyland," Arrison said. Nonetheless, it will be tough to persuade people to pay -- in cash or computing time that delays mail -- for something they are used to getting for free.

Critics of postage see more promise in other approaches, including technology to better verify e-mail senders and lawsuits to drive the big spammers out of business.

"Back in the early '90s, there were e-mail systems that charged you 10 cents a message," said John Levine, an anti-spam advocate. "And they are all dead."

I know this is old, and this only seems to be a follow up article, but I haven't seen the discussion on NMA yet. I think it is a great idea. As long as free email still exists and is still supported. The idea of paying for email with a small amount of computer time (for solving say extremely high prime numbers) I think is the best idea of the bunch. It still stays free, and keeps spam down.

Funny that there is such a large discussion about spam. Is it really that annoying to warrant solutions involving paying for email? Seriously?

I realize the irony that further discussion adds to the spam factor already prevalent on this internet we all share. :)
 
CNN.com said:
NEW YORK (AP) -- If the U.S. Postal Service delivered mail for free, our mailboxes would surely <u>runneth</u> over with more credit-card offers, sweepstakes entries, and supermarket fliers.
Runneth? Verily, thou hast forgotten the age you art living in.


Daemon Spawn said:
Funny that there is such a large discussion about spam. Is it really that annoying to warrant solutions involving paying for email? Seriously?
While paying per e-mail is not my idea of a viable solution, it is a very large problem. Moreso for e-mail providers then the user. Bandwidth bills and all that.
 
But the problem with using computer power as payment would be for those poor sods who run mailing lists mentioned in the article, on the other hand I'm pretty sure a large percentage of those who are on the bigger mailing lists really aren't interested in it, they are just subscribing because they are too lazy too unsubscribe.

But it sounds as the most viable solution to me too.

And I've been led to believe that the major problem with spam is the congestion it causes, not just that it's annoying. Have no idea how much congestion it actually causes though.
 
Charging for e-mails stamps is possibly the single most fucking retarded idea I have ever heard of in my entire life. Why are there such low members of the genepool?
 
Hm. Sounds like an alright idea to me.

It kind of remembers me of the SETI project: I downloaded that thingie once, and it starts calculating and processing data whenever your computer is on, but isn't being used.

I think this might be a good solution to fight spamming, but I never like it when people suddenly start to charge "money" (or time) for something that was free before. And to know that Bill Gates is somehow involved in all of this, well, that just makes me wanna :violent:

Hm.............
 
Argh! Will they take away ALL free things on the 'net?
The beauty of the net is the free availability of communication and information. And now they want to go ask you to pay for that? No, not even if paying means letting your computer work for you.
Besides, this is impossible unless they're going to completely change the way in which the internet works, since the internet is decentralised, and anyone(literally anyone) can just start a mail-server if he wants. There's no way of controlling the flow of e-mail. Bah. If anything like this ever happens, I'll simply do my best to set up a free e-mail provider. *grumbles*
 
Uhh thats plain stupid.....though maybe you can send a free "acceptace" letter to a friend and them it would be free to send e-amil to that address?
 
I'm surprised they didn't think of banning email to solve the spam problem.
Maybe the ones who actually have to suffer should be the spammers, not regular users?
 
They should just make spam illegal. None of this "do not spam list" shit, just a complete ban on any e-mail edvertising. Companies can stick to media where they actually have to pay money to annoy people with advertising, like TV or Radio. I'll bet spam causes more congestion that people think. Way more.
 
calculon00 said:
They should just make spam illegal. None of this "do not spam list" shit, just a complete ban on any e-mail edvertising. Companies can stick to media where they actually have to pay money to annoy people with advertising, like TV or Radio. I'll bet spam causes more congestion that people think. Way more.

It's kinda hard to enforce laws on the Internet, though.

File-sharing is illegal in many places, too, for example - but people still do.
 
toresica said:
It's kinda hard to enforce laws on the Internet, though.

File-sharing is illegal in many places, too, for example - but people still do.

Surely you could track down the spammers and close them down or make an example of a few people, like with file sharing. The anti spam software people will not be to happy if there was no spam but they will probably always be there to curb the last surviving spammers. It would be very expensive and difficult to have such legislation but it would be worth it. Banning spam is being considered by the Australian government as well but it is still early days.
 
I think if people could submit addresses to a universal list that is then downloadable to block ads would be good.


I'm hoping they ban all the fucking ads, pop-ups, banners, take-overs, pop-unders, downloads for gitor and other spyware etc.
 
Well, problem is, we might be getting tons of spam for whatnot, but look at your normal mailbox. We get junkmail for stores we bought something at, random catalogues, your name gets submitted and you get junk for random stuff. People have to pay for all that. So obviously, paying for email stamps wouldnt work. How would that even be governed? Through your ISP or program that you use? Spam would decrease, but who would make all the profits? You guys might not use email all that much, but companies do. And newsletters and stuff get info out. I work for a company that sells accounting software, and so we email clients all the time. We also email stuff to each other, interoffice emails. Its much easier than using paper, a lot of times.

Putting stamps on emails would not work. There is too much spam, I agree, and its not right that I have about 40-70 emails a week that's spam, and I waste time downloading all that crap. How do spam mailers even profit? No one buys their stuff...
 
:shock: Charging for emails would be just wrong, aren't we paying already so that we can access the net? What more do they want? Isn't that fact that we are increasing their traffic rating so that they can peddle their banners at a higher price enough? What next? Will I have to pay to take a breath of clean air? The world is really going to the dogs :violent:
 
Surely you could track down the spammers and close them down or make an example of a few people, like with file sharing.
That's the entire point: they can't.

Besides, charging money won't work. Spammers will simpl;y use their own mail servers. Easy enough.
 
Actually you'd choose how much people will have to pay to send you emails.
 
The problem with the 'pay for emails' is much worse; it goes in the same direction as the tcpa issue... the trick of making stamps for mails would be that only, and only the authorized mail servers could send and receive mails... That means, they monopolize mail. And I am aginst that. But I fear that the internet, like all newly discovered land (remember the usa... at the beginning it was a free land, everybody could go there and make their fortune, but that changed very soon) will become controlled and overwatched... it's sad but that's what I think is the future
:(
 
I don't think so. People will just switch to services that don't use pay system, and without revenue - good luck maintaining authorized servers... It would probably kill Hotmail like that.
 
APTYP said:
I don't think so. People will just switch to services that don't use pay system, and without revenue - good luck maintaining authorized servers... It would probably kill Hotmail like that.

The pay system, though, is something the person who recieves the e-mail chooses - like anti-spam software. I could charge people a penny to e-mail me, (or a second of computing time, or whatever), or I could charge them fifteen bucks (or 12 hours of computing time, or whatever).
 
Back
Top