Can you Squint and fit Wasteland into Fallout?

[VaultTecCivilDefense]

Fallout Tactics could be shoehorned into Wasteland due to the technology and setting style being closer to Wasteland.

 

[VaultTecCivilDefense]

Fallout 1,2 & 3(VB) could be with some modification Wasteland's Future.

 

[The_Proletarian]

Aren't the Arizona rangers already present in New Vegas? That would make Wasteland sort of canon.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Aren't the Arizona rangers already present in New Vegas? That would make Wasteland sort of canon.

We know they fought in Arizona against the Legion but the Desert Rangers were primarily Nevada based.

I like to think their HQ was a pre-war prison, though.

 

[MayonaiseCream]

Is the idea even possible?

 

[megamike15]

no they are to tonally different.

 

[The_Proletarian]

I believe you could actually rewrite Wasteland 1 and change and convert certain aspects into their Fallout equivalents. You would get a very interesting new Fallout game that way. Fallout: Wasteland or Fallout: Desert Rangers.

In Wasteland 1 the apocalypse happened in 1998 and the game takes place in 2087. In Fallout the apocalypse happens in 2077 and the game takes place in 2161. If you convert Wasteland 1 into Fallout then events of Fallout: Wasteland would transpire in the year 2166, ie five years after Fallout 1.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I believe you could actually rewrite Wasteland 1 and change and convert certain aspects into their Fallout equivalents. You would get a very interesting new Fallout game that way. Fallout: Wasteland or Fallout: Desert Rangers.

In Wasteland 1 the apocalypse happened in 1998 and the game takes place in 2087. In Fallout the apocalypse happens in 2077 and the game takes place in 2161. If you convert Wasteland 1 into Fallout then events of Fallout: Wasteland would transpire in the year 2166, ie five years after Fallout 1.

Base Cochise and the Calculator share some passing similarities, perhaps the "reality" is some strange mix of Fallout Tactics and Wasteland.

 

[The_Proletarian]

Fallout Tactics would probably be the best Fallout game to mod for this anyway, since it's squad based.

You are right about the existence of the calculator being a problem if one wants to convert Wasteland into Fallout. But there are already other examples of AI:s in Fallout. Isn't there a Skynet in the Sierra Army Depot for example? So there's a possibility for other rouge AI:s in the universe.

 

[The_Proletarian]

Sorry for the double. Apart for the Desert Rangers actually being part of Fallout: New Vegas having been merged with the NCR Rangers there's also this page detailing the similarities between the two settings:

Spoiler: General Wasteland 1 in Fallout

• ZAX, a series of advanced supercomputers that appeared in the original Fallout and were set to return in Van Buren, are named similarly to VAX from Wasteland.
• Tycho, the Desert Ranger - the band of heroes in Wasteland were Desert Rangers. He also makes references to Wasteland, such as mentioning the Wasteland character Fat Freddy.
• Deathclaws are similar to the shadow claws, mutated iguanas found wandering the desert in Wasteland.
• Ghouls are similar to the mutated desert dweller, drool, pit ghoul, shambler ghoul, spineless ghoul, night screamer, and night terror encountered in Wasteland.

It's interesting with Tycho mentioned above since Fallout 1 would take place only five years after Wasteland 1. That means that you would probably encounter Tycho as a character down in Nevada if you converted Wasteland into Fallout.

e: It's mentioned that Gizmo reminds Tycho of Fat Freddy who is a character in Las Vegas in Wasteland 1. However it was Tychos father who told Tycho about Fat Freddy. So maybe one should let the story of Fallout: Wasteland/Fallout: Desert Rangers play out some 20 years before Fallout 1? To make it plausible that it was Tychos father who encountered Fat Freddy. I think that it's important that the Fallout lore always overwrites the Wasteland lore. Remember we are trying to put Wasteland 1 into Fallout.

Spoiler: New Vegas and Wasteland 1

Fallout: New Vegas

• In both games, Las Vegas avoided being directly hit by nukes, are in relatively good condition, have electricity, and robots are still patrolling the streets.
• A direct nod to the Desert Ranger faction in Wasteland can be seen on the Unification Monument plaque outside of the Mojave Outpost.
• In Honest Hearts, one can find Desert Ranger combat armor.
• The add-on Old World Blues features a large number of references to Wasteland, including the proton axe, Toaster, Robo-scorpion, the consumables thin red paste and thick red paste and the perk description for Them's Good Eatin': "Any living creature you kill has a 50% chance to have the potent healing items Thin Red Paste or Blood Sausage when looted."

I believe this could actually be done. Let's see the Wasteland 1 worldmap with all the locations. How would one start such a project that aims to convert the entire WL1 into the Fallout setting?


e: So this is the worldmap eh?

e: Wasteland worldmap can be found here: https://wasteland-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Wasteland_world

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

If New Vegas had mentioned Fat Freddy then you could probably squeeze Wasteland into Fallout, ignoring all the Wasteland lore of course. But since New Vegas fails to mention that Vegas was previously ruled by a mobster named Fat Freddy, the comment from Tycho is no more than a reference to Wasteland, and is not canon.

Unless Mr. House set out to erase post-apoc Vegas history, convincing everyone that Vegas was ruled by warring tribes until he showed up.

 

[Atomic Postman]

If New Vegas had mentioned Fat Freddy then you could probably squeeze Wasteland into Fallout, ignoring all the Wasteland lore of course. But since New Vegas fails to mention that Vegas was previously ruled by a mobster named Fat Freddy, the comment from Tycho is no more than a reference to Wasteland, and is not canon.

Unless Mr. House set out to erase post-apoc Vegas history, convincing everyone that Vegas was ruled by warring tribes until he showed up.

Vegas being ruled by a mobster in the 2100s and then later being tribal aren't contradictory. Vegas survived the bombings and they wouldn't have gone immediately tribal. Remember, the Vegas Tribes weren't like Zion or Arroyo, they were more than likely "tribal" in a sense similar to the Khans, Vipers or Jackals.

We know that between the Great War and House waking up, Vegas was a rural shithole with little relevance. Why would some random mobster warlord a century prior be relevant? He probably got offed by the next chump. It's all just a series of savages until House wakes up, as far as anyone is concerned.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

Vegas being ruled by a mobster in the 2100s and then later being tribal aren't contradictory. Vegas survived the bombings and they wouldn't have gone immediately tribal. Remember, the Vegas Tribes weren't like Zion or Arroyo, they were more than likely "tribal" in a sense similar to the Khans, Vipers or Jackals.

We know that between the Great War and House waking up, Vegas was a rural shithole with little relevance. Why would some random mobster warlord a century prior be relevant? He probably got offed by the next chump. It's all just a series of savages until House wakes up, as far as anyone is concerned.

I guess that’s true, I’d just think that a former de facto ruler of the city would’ve been remembered. But I forgot how long it had been between Fat Freddy being mentioned in Fallout 1 and New Vegas, so it makes sense that he would be forgotten.

 

[Atomic Postman]

I guess that’s true, I’d just think that a former de facto ruler of the city would’ve been remembered. But I forgot how long it had been between Fat Freddy being mentioned in Fallout 1 and New Vegas, so it makes sense that he would be forgotten.

Yeah you've got no idea how long he was in charge of the place, some gangster freak in charge of the shop for 10 years is a drop in the bucket compared to the probable decades of violence, factionalism and eventually the development of the tribes.

 

[The_Proletarian]

Here's the Wasteland worldmap and here are the locations.

The truly difficult thing to merge would be the Guardians of the Old Order who reside in the Guardian Citadel. They are almost the same faction as the Brotherhood of Steel, the big difference being the name. Since this would take place roughly at the same time as Fallout 1 it would probably be a bit of a stretch to convert the Guardians into the BoS. I.e. having the Citadel being inhabited by the BoS. Would it be probable that BoS would also have a base in Nevada a few years after the events of Fallout 1?

One would probably have to go with a kill your darlings approach. It can't reek of fanfiction. Fallout lore can't be set aside. Everything one puts in the game would have to be first and foremost not be in conflict with or contradict anything in Fallout 1. If it passes that it would also have to be in line with Fallout 2 as the next check, then New Vegas and then possibly Tactics. If it's not contradictionary to any established lore then it's okay.

e: There was a Chinese invasion according to wasteland-lore. Anyone know anything about that?

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Just about everything can be made to fit, except one major fact... canonically, Hoover Dam was destroyed in Wasteland. Otherwise, most of it can be made to fit.

Guardian Citadel: The first interesting one. In terms of location, it probably corresponds to some facility in Yuma Proving Grounds. While we could infer the existence of another pseudo-monastic technophilic order, this seems unlikely. The Guardians therefore are pretty clearly one in the same as the Brotherhood of Steel. The question is how they're related.

One could go for the Fallout 76 explanation and say that Yuma Proving Grounds just so happend to be run by one of Roger Maxson's best buds who phoned him up after his mutiny and thought that the idea was epic, so he recreated an almost exact copy of the Brotherhood 250 miles away. This is possible, but not preferred.

Alternatively, the only other explanation seems to be that it was an early patrol/expedition way far out. I'm also reluctant to opt for this explanation, because it seems strange that the Brotherhood prior to Fallout 1 would have the capacity to set up a colony so very far away, especially when you consider that there are at least 83 Guardian NPCs, which surely would take a big chunk out of Maxson's rag-tag crew early on in their history. It seems almost impossible to imagine such a large colony prior to the events of Fallout 1, but I suppose its not impossible. It becomes a lot more likely if we locate Fallout: Wasteland after the events of 1.

As to the different nomenclature, there are two possibilities. The first is that the Guardians are a splinter group that broke off from the main body of the Brotherhood. Alternatively we can just ignore the difference in nomenclature.

Rail Nomads: Just another group of eccentric tribals. Very similar to the Iron Lines of Van Buren and mentioned in NV. Could be one in the same just under a different name that we can ignore (as for the Guardians), could be ancestors, or could just be similar lifestyles.

Darwin: An isolated village in central Arizona, a bit north of Phoenix, hence the radiation. The underground facility is just one of countless government R&D projects pursuing strange concepts, run by an eccentric. Finster would admittedly be the most advanced robot/cyborg in the old games, his body far too smooth and humanoid. Either he just had a particuarly advanced robot, or you can retcon it for him to be in a robobrain.

Vegas: Aside from the small detail of Hoover Dam, it basically works. Now, Vegas seems to be a lot more civilized in Wasteland compared to what is described in Fallout. It's quite prosperous and intact, and is already a gambling mecca for the region. This is obviously extremely problematic for the plot of New Vegas and indeed Fallout 2, there's no reason that NCR's discovery should have taken so long if it was up and active. So we need a way to justify its fall into a less civilized tribalism.

Luckily, there are two possible solutions provided by Wasteland 2/3. One, Vegas is wiped out by the radioactive clouds that move in following the events of Wasteland 1. This has a nice symmetry with Mr. House's mention that all of the citizens of Vegas survived and cheered out in the streets only to be killed by fallout drifting in, even if its obviously a separate event. Alternatively, we could say it was wiped out or severely weakened by the attack of marauding Cochise cyborgs. Following this it devolves into tribalism.

Base Cochise: Again, nothing fundamentally contradictory here. A military base in Northern Nevada run by a malevolent AI, one of many in Fallout. Interestingly, its location is sort-of-kind-of similar to where Big MT is, as well as the Nevada Test Site. If we consider the presence of RoboScorpions, we could speculate that Base Cochise was a related facility outside of the boundaries of Big Mountain itself , or at least that it had some access to the Think Tank's designs. In any case, its destruction by a reactor meltdown could serve as another one of the impediments to NCR travel directly through Nevada, in addition to Death Valley, Big MT itself, and eventually the Divide.

 

[Atomic Postman]

Fundamentally I think Project Darwin and the Cyborgs is not going to be a great fit, and at best I'd say you could say these are tidbits of misconstrued rumours from the events of Fallout 1 and the Unity that got blended into the totally true adventurers of the Desert Rangers where they flew a badass helicopter and they were the ones who stopped the big weird army from taking over the Wasteland and not some nobody in a vault suit.

Just about everything can be made to fit, except one major fact... canonically, Hoover Dam was destroyed in Wasteland. Otherwise, most of it can be made to fit.

Guardian Citadel: The first interesting one. In terms of location, it probably corresponds to some facility in Yuma Proving Grounds. While we could infer the existence of another pseudo-monastic technophilic order, this seems unlikely. The Guardians therefore are pretty clearly one in the same as the Brotherhood of Steel. The question is how they're related.

One could go for the Fallout 76 explanation and say that Yuma Proving Grounds just so happend to be run by one of Roger Maxson's best buds who phoned him up after his mutiny and thought that the idea was epic, so he recreated an almost exact copy of the Brotherhood 250 miles away. This is possible, but not preferred.

Alternatively, the only other explanation seems to be that it was an early patrol/expedition way far out. I'm also reluctant to opt for this explanation, because it seems strange that the Brotherhood prior to Fallout 1 would have the capacity to set up a colony so very far away, especially when you consider that there are at least 83 Guardian NPCs, which surely would take a big chunk out of Maxson's rag-tag crew early on in their history. It seems almost impossible to imagine such a large colony prior to the events of Fallout 1, but I suppose its not impossible. It becomes a lot more likely if we locate Fallout: Wasteland after the events of 1.

We also can't have a war between the Desert Rangers and the Brotherhood, and something as decisive as the siege of the Citadel would be an outright act of war. Perhaps in this telling, a remote exploratory outpost of the Brotherhood possesses the access technology for our 'Base Cochise', and the Rangers had to either steal it or destroy the Brotherhood outpost whilst blaming another group (The Vipers?) in order to keep the heat off of them. A hint of things to come with the Brotherhood categorically being unwilling to give up unique technology.

Rail Nomads: Just another group of eccentric tribals. Very similar to the Iron Lines of Van Buren and mentioned in NV. Could be one in the same just under a different name that we can ignore (as for the Guardians), could be ancestors, or could just be similar lifestyles.

My foggy memory recalls that the tribal mythology of the VB Iron Lines has them chasing a roaring machine in their ancestry. They came from somewhere else originally, and folllowed a train to Colorado. Well, how about that.

Vegas:

Aside from the small detail of Hoover Dam, it basically works. Now, Vegas seems to be a lot more civilized in Wasteland compared to what is described in Fallout. It's quite prosperous and intact, and is already a gambling mecca for the region. This is obviously extremely problematic for the plot of New Vegas and indeed Fallout 2, there's no reason that NCR's discovery should have taken so long if it was up and active. So we need a way to justify its fall into a less civilized tribalism.

Just turn down the notch on the neon one turn. Make mid 2100s Vegas basically like Gizmo's junktown. Hive of scum and villainy, but dumpy backwater style and not at all a New Reno. Mojave is too hostile for it to be worth it. At the particular moments the Rangers drop through, it's doing its best to pretend, but it's only just a few footsteps away from the tribal degeneration. Perhaps Freddy was keeping things together, shitty as they are, and when he dies the place slumps entirely. He was just holding back the inevitable.

Base Cochise:

Again, nothing fundamentally contradictory here. A military base in Northern Nevada run by a malevolent AI, one of many in Fallout. Interestingly, its location is sort-of-kind-of similar to where Big MT is, as well as the Nevada Test Site. If we consider the presence of RoboScorpions, we could speculate that Base Cochise was a related facility outside of the boundaries of Big Mountain itself , or at least that it had some access to the Think Tank's designs. In any case, its destruction by a reactor meltdown could serve as another one of the impediments to NCR travel directly through Nevada, in addition to Death Valley, Big MT itself, and eventually the Divide.

Cass remarks that Hawthorne Army Base in roughly the same area "has a lot of history" with no further elaboration - perhaps that could be a point of interest?

 

[Hardboiled Android]

Fundamentally I think Project Darwin and the Cyborgs is not going to be a great fit, and at best I'd say you could say these are tidbits of misconstrued rumours from the events of Fallout 1 and the Unity that got blended into the totally true adventurers of the Desert Rangers where they flew a badass helicopter and they were the ones who stopped the big weird army from taking over the Wasteland and not some nobody in a vault suit.

Why do you say that? Obviously these cyborgs/robots haven't been seen elsewhere in Fallout, but cybernetics were at a fairly advanced state in Fallout, so it seems strange to think that someone out there wouldn't have been working on more advanced models, so why not have a few research facilities pumping them out. Obviously the resemblance between the main story and that of 1 is somewhat troubling for any integration, but I don't think it's a death knell. The fundamental orientation of Cochise AI is a little different from the Master - the Master does fundamentally care about humanity and human survival, whereas the Cochise AI seems to be looking it its creations more like the android in Alien does - they're superior lifeforms, simple as, and he wants to transform the planet into something inhuman and horrific. But in any case, you could just make it more Calculator-esque, an AI gone haywire without any specific goal in mind producing new variations of cyborgs.

We also can't have a war between the Desert Rangers and the Brotherhood, and something as decisive as the siege of the Citadel would be an outright act of war. Perhaps in this telling, a remote exploratory outpost of the Brotherhood possesses the access technology for our 'Base Cochise', and the Rangers had to either steal it or destroy the Brotherhood outpost whilst blaming another group (The Vipers?) in order to keep the heat off of them. A hint of things to come with the Brotherhood categorically being unwilling to give up unique technology.

I mean I suppose a war is possible between the Desert Rangers and the Brotherhood since we never see them or hear of them interacting, but yeah it probably would stretch credulity and I doubt the Brotherhood would let that go lightly. You could explaining it by having the Citadel be a splinter group to also explain the name change, though this is not my preferred model.

Considering how little info the Desert Rangers have at this point they might not even know that the Citadel is an expeditionary force of a larger organization, so they might not think to try and cover their tracks, though I suppose the locals would remember when they showed up. So I guess framing some other group would make sense. Feels a little too far afield for the Vipers at this point, it would be enough of a challenge for the Brotherhood to get there, so probably some local group. Maybe the Temple of Blood?

Just turn down the notch on the neon one turn. Make mid 2100s Vegas basically like Gizmo's junktown. Hive of scum and villainy, but dumpy backwater style and not at all a New Reno. Mojave is too hostile for it to be worth it. At the particular moments the Rangers drop through, it's doing its best to pretend, but it's only just a few footsteps away from the tribal degeneration. Perhaps Freddy was keeping things together, shitty as they are, and when he dies the place slumps entirely. He was just holding back the inevitable.

I had considered this, it would tie things together very neatly to have Fat Freddy's death be the cause of the collapse, but it wouldn't really make sense - Faran Brygo was number one in town, and unlike Killian Darkwater's sense of frontier justice there's nothing in Brygo's character that suggests that he would create a precipitous decline inthe settlement. No, it feels like the cause needs to be external, so attacks from Cochise cyborgs and/or radioactive clouds drifting in feel like the best solution.

Cass remarks that Hawthorne Army Base in roughly the same area "has a lot of history" with no further elaboration - perhaps that could be a point of interest?

Could be, but feels way too far north. On the map, Cochise is at roughly the same latitude as Glenn Canyon or thereabouts. An identification with the Nevada Test Site/Area 51/Big Mountain fits really well with the map and fits really well with the superscience nexus and blocks to Californian commerce up there.

 

[Iprovidelittlepianos]

The plot of Wasteland 1 is practically identical to the plot of Fallout 1, thematically at least, so it would seem a bit contrived to have both of them happening at roughly the same time. However, I don’t think it’s a stretch that the Guardians of the Old Order arose independently of the Brotherhood of Steel. I personally think it’s better to have a bunch of Brotherhood-like factions as opposed to the actual Brotherhood being everywhere. But this is all head canon anyway, that’s just my two cents.

 

[Hardboiled Android]

The plot of Wasteland 1 is practically identical to the plot of Fallout 1, thematically at least, so it would seem a bit contrived to have both of them happening at roughly the same time. However, I don’t think it’s a stretch that the Guardians of the Old Order arose independently of the Brotherhood of Steel. I personally think it’s better to have a bunch of Brotherhood-like factions as opposed to the actual Brotherhood being everywhere. But this is all head canon anyway, that’s just my two cents.

Like I said, I think there are differences between the main sotry of Wasteland and Fallout 1. Fallout 1's is a lot more philosophical in tenor, whereas Wasteland is a lot more AI gone haywire and pumping out enemies like the Calculator.

I would like to agree with you on Guardians of the Old Order, but they're explicitly a pseudo-knightly pseudo-monastic order. The odds of their being two Army remnants within a few hundred miles of each other that explicitly devote themselves to hoarding technology in a the fasion of religious fanatacism, and also seem to be massive DnD fans... I dunno, it stretches my credulity far too much. I guess you could rewrite the Guardians to be more of a generic army remnant if you really wanted to but that takes away basically all their flavor.