China goes Fuedal on Buddhists

Seems that the Chinese government is getting increasingly pissed off that people are protesting.

SOme folks just don't get the whole free speech thing. That or they haven't realized what limp pricks they are.

Tibet and the Olympics

A flaming row

Apr 9th 2008
From Economist.com


Protests over Tibet could overshadow the Beijing Olympics. China has the means to defuse the row

IT IS still four months before athletes gather in Beijing for the Olympics, but already the games are embroiled in controversy as protests grow over human-rights abuses in Tibet. The immediate concern for China’s government and for the international Olympic movement is that preparations for a showcase sporting event are being disrupted by political confrontation, which could lead to protests or boycotts of the games themselves. The pressing desire for pro-independence campaigners in Tibet, where an ongoing crackdown by Chinese authorities has claimed more lives in recent weeks, is to take advantage of the opportunity to garner world attention for their cause.

Gradually the voices speaking out about Tibet are growing louder. On Wednesday April 9th Australia’s prime minister, Kevin Rudd, a friend of China and fluent Mandarin speaker on his first trip to the country since taking office, used a speech to students in Peking University to talk of “significant human-rights problems” in the region. He called, too, for dialogue between China’s government and the spiritual leader of Tibet, the Dalai Lama.

Mr Rudd’s comments followed days of protests in Athens, London, Paris and San Francisco, as the Olympic torch was taken on a world tour to promote the Beijing games. As the Olympic flame was carried through those cities, guarded by thuggish-looking security guards in blue tracksuits, it quickly became the focus for criticism of China over its repressive rule in Tibet. Police in London arrested three dozen Tibet-independence campaigners as the celebrities and athletes carrying the flame were hidden behind a phalanx of guards. In Paris a giant banner was hung from the Eiffel Tower showing the five Olympic rings as handcuffs, another adorned Notre Dame cathedral. Police again made several arrests. President Nicolas Sarkozy called the parade “a bit sad”. It is becoming worse than that: an embarrassment to both China and to the Olympic movement.

Olympic officials would now like to abandon the rest of the flame’s world tour, foreseeing that protests are likely to worsen. Already in San Francisco, where the parade continues on Wednesday, protesters have strung banners from the Golden Gate Bridge. Nastier and perhaps bloodier demonstrations might come elsewhere, for example when the flame reaches Delhi, in India, or possibly in Canberra, Australia.

China has the power to ease the unfolding public-relations disaster. One step would be to cancel the rest of the torch’s international tour. More substantial would be to scrap the parading of the torch in Tibet—something seen as intensively insensitive by Tibetans who consider China’s rule to be oppression by a foreign power. More substantial yet would be for China’s government to allow more democratic freedoms, including peaceful protests, in Tibet and elsewhere.

Instead China’s leaders, in public at least, perhaps not grasping how quickly dismay over the Olympics is growing, are refusing to bend. The Beijing-backed governor of Tibet, Qiangba Puncog, has said that the torch will still be brought to Tibet and has given warning that any who try to obstruct its progress face “severe” punishment.

The official media have portrayed the disruptions in London and Paris as marginal displays of discontent by violent activists amid overwhelming shows of support. A state television report aired a brief comment by Paula Radcliffe, a British marathon runner, in which she endorsed the importance of the protesters’ cause while condemning their methods. The Chinese subtitle, however, mistranslated her remarks such that the endorsement was removed. The sinister torch-protection team has been called “valiant and heroic” by China’s media. Official reports say the squad is composed of officers from the People’s Armed Police who have been training for this role since last August.

The problem for China, however, is that public protests could grow in the coming weeks and lead to boycotts of the games themselves—or at least of the opening ceremony. Hillary Clinton, a Democratic contender for the presidency in America, now says that George Bush should stay away. Mr Sarkozy says he will wait to decide whether to travel. Growing public anger, stoked by protests along the torch’s route, could make the Olympics a bigger trial for China’s government than it had bargained for.
 
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Look how disrespectful some chinese politics/security persons have been in Paris. You can see some of the guys dressed in blue holding the flame carrier's arms as if he was a prisonner... he's a champion of judo not a damn thief! And can you believe it, at a certain point, a chinese guy take the flame without asking and turns it off... look at the face of the athletes... Yeah Welsh => Fuck China more than ever.
 
I can't say I understood more than 1/10th of what was said, but I can tell the indignation that the athletes felt the moment he turned the torch off.

I think that was just out of ignorance though, I would seriously doubt that it was out of malice.

As for the protection, don't they know that they're better off flanking the runner, not crowding 'em?
 
LOL

Welsh, you might get a kick out this article:

FORTUNE GLOBAL FORUM
Hu Jintao's Goal: Build a 'Moderately Prosperous Society'
China's president talks about foreign investment, deregulation, and his country's foreign exchange reserves, but he doesn't mention Mao.
By Justin Fox

A student of Chinese history might think a lot happened in the country between 1949 and 1978: the Hundred Flowers Campaign; the Great Leap Forward; and the Cultural Revolution. But in his opening speech at the FORTUNE Global Forum in Beijing today, President Hu Jintao rather pointedly declared that those days don¡¦t matter anymore.

In a quick survey of 5,000 years of Chinese history, Hu skipped straight from 1949, when the Communists gained full control and ¡§the new China was proclaimed,¡¨ to 1978, when Deng Xiaoping began his ¡§reform and opening-up program.¡¨ Mao Zedong¡¦s portrait may still loom over Tiananmen Square, but he doesn¡¦t even rate a mention now when his successor addresses foreign businesspeople in the Great Hall of the People on the square¡¦s west side. ¡§In a sense, what an admission,¡¨ said Anthony Saich, director of Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government's China Public Policy Program, who sat behind me in the bus on the way back to the hotel after the speech. ¡§It¡¦s almost like saying, ¡¥We wasted 30 years.¡¦¡¨

Hu¡¦s speech was also remarkable for its brevity (it lasted a mere 14 minutes); his repeated citing of detailed economic figures (China¡¦s foreign exchange reserves now total $609.9 billion); and his use of the phrase ¡§FORTUNE 500¡¨ (as in, ¡§over 400 firms out of the FORTUNE 500 have invested in China.") That China has changed a lot lately is so obvious as to be almost not worth mentioning. But there¡¦s still something really strange about hearing the nominally Communist country¡¦s leader wax poetic about foreign direct investment and deregulation. I guess we¡¦d better get used to it.

As befits a regime committed to keeping multinational corporations happy, China¡¦s government is making a really big deal of this conference. The expressway from Beijing Capital International Airport into town is lined with FORTUNE Global Forum banners. Today¡¦s edition of the China Daily, the government¡¦s English-language mouthpiece, is largely devoted to the event. To quote from the lead article in the ever-enthusiastic Daily: ¡§More than 800 participants¡XCEOs, chairpersons and presidents of Global 500 firms and domestic enterprises; top government officials; and renowned scholars¡Xwill be brainstorming on various issues.¡¨

But there¡¦s really just one issue that will dominate the conference, which runs through Wednesday afternoon: China. The country¡¦s big and growing consumer market, plus its huge and cheap workforce, have made it an obsession among the world¡¦s CEOs. As a result, the sort-of-annual CEO powwow that is FORTUNE Global Forum has become a largely China-centric event: Three of the last five forums have been held here (the previous two being Shanghai in 1999 and Hong Kong in 2001).

Because it¡¦s being held in the capital, though, this year¡¦s event is characterized by a heavy involvement of Chinese officialdom. While that has its downsides¡Xthe bureaucratic hassles and recitations of fulsome platitudes and 10-point plans have already begun¡Xit¡¦s certainly not all bad. For one thing, the event venues are swell places like the Great Hall of the People, the Temple of Heaven, and the Diaoyutai State Guest House (the in-town Chinese answer to Camp David)¡Xand we can count on regular police escorts. For another, it¡¦s worth being reminded of just how great the challenges facing China really are.

To corporate executives, politicians, and workers around the world, China may look like a fearsome economic juggernaut. But the people responsible for running the place know the real score: However amazing it is that a couple hundred million Chinese have risen to affluence in the past couple of decades, that still leaves a billion people stuck in poverty. The government¡¦s goal over the next 20 years, Hu said in his speech, is to ¡§seize the important window of strategic opportunities to build a moderately prosperous society.¡¨ By ¡§moderately prosperous,¡¨ Hu said he meant about $3,000 a year in per capita GDP¡Xabout one-thirteenth of current U.S. per capita GDP.

This was my response :

There are too many articles to quote from, so I'll stop here. The interesting thing is that Mr. Hu has actually hinted at democratic reforms in his speech.

There are a lot of warm sentiments being thrown around. You make money, help me make money, everybody happy. Of course, China still need forign investment and technology to survive. The up side is that it has a huge domestic market to fall back on should its globalization efforts get a false start. The funny thing is that I didn't hear any protest or any peep from anybody about Japanese business men(or economical advisors) attending the forum.

Another amusing thing that nobody mentions is that not very many foreign businesses are making a profit in China until recently. A lot of companies(big or small) came with the soda dream - if only 5-10% of the people in China buy my soda at $3 dollars each, I'll be the richest man in the world. Of course, many do not understand and could not have known that unlike the monolithic gigantica that they thought was China, China is actually extremely diverse and complicated market to operate in.

Meanwhile, the Chinese technology is catching up, Tsinghua University in Beijing has already build a chip that is equal to Pentium 3 in 2000 using only domestic know how. As for the area I am familiar in, bio tech is the hottest business right now. A lot of reagents being used now are made in China.

And surprisingly, China is becoming one of the leading pursuer of alternative energy development. 1.3 billion people all need power, and all the economical development demands even more from it. Coal, wind, tide, thermal, dam, nuclear and other ideas are all being tested. China's do it now and we'll do the environmental impact assessment later attitude is getting a warm welcome by western companies who are used to jump through hoops.

2008 is fast approaching, and Beijing is gearing up to put on one last spurt through the finish line. There are constructions everywhere, and a lot of the world heritage site is being renovated. There are a lot of talks of security in the press. But I believe all the security hoopla is a cover for Beijing to ready itself for the massive world wide attention. Would people choose that time to protest? To talk about social/human rights issue? To talk about democracy reforms? I am curious to see if Beijing/China's one last leap into the world stage would be glorious or shameful? Would reporters and spies use this chance to dig up dirt on Beijing?

May we live in interesting times indeed.
 
Hey Starseeker-

An interesting speech- to deny 30 years of Mao and the building of the political edifice that the CCP relies on?

A friend of mine, years back, did her dissertation on trade asymetricies and conflict. IF you have two countries that trade in the same basic good, then they will compete over markets. But if you have two countries that trade in different goods- High valued electronics vs low cost plastic (lead painted) toys- than there is unlikely to be a conflict as their comparative advantages are different.

However, countries with low levels of technology are under pressure to catch up, will backward engineer items and build the capacity to be more competitive.

More competitive economies- more chance of conflict.


On a related issue-
I heard an interesting bit on NPR on the demographic problem-

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89572563

Economic Consequences

The strict birth control policies have serious economic consequences too.

China's limited labor pool and its aging population means it will eventually lose its position as workshop of the world, says Zuo Xuejin, executive vice president of Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences. He says the demographic trend is making China less competitive in labor-intensive manufacturing than India, Bangladesh and other countries.

Indeed the future of the one-child policy was a hot topic at this year's session of China's parliament. But speculation that changes might be in the offing ended when Population Minister Zhang Weiqing said the policy would stay in place for another decade.

So more children = large population of low wage labor. Why? labor intensive manufacturer is essential.

But that relies on maintaining a poor population.
450 million make less than $2 a day?
.
 
LOL, did you get the joke? That article was posted last year at the Global Fortunes Forum in Beijing.

What a reverse turn of events, huh? If you were to read the major news, books, interviews, blogs and etc about China last year from the west, it was filled with enthusiasm and promise for a better future. If you read any of the books that tried to cash in on China that got published the end of last year and the beginning of this year, you will get the drift. There is even a dummy book on how to do business in China now.

Nobody could have imagined this, right? Nah, something was going to happen, and most old time China hands who has seen CCP's communism with Confucius and Maoist doctrine first hand know it. We were just waiting to see how the new guy will react.

---

As for economics and globalization, I am of the opinion that is probably similar to your friend. In terms of trade, you have trade one product for another. That's why a lot of people misunderstand the concept of trade and protection. If China is competing with the product that your segment of industry is making, that means your upper stream industry is probably making a killing in terms of materials and supplies at a higher volume. Somebody in your country has to trade for something that China sends over.

Look at the commodities market before and after China. If memory serves me correctly, a lot of these companies were cast on the way side to pave the road for the Tech companies. Look at them now, the first South African Billionaire owns a mining company.

Someone once said it best, China is one of the largest start up and a largest turn around company at the same time in the history of the world. It's not a monolithic entity that is easy to stereotype and understand. There is no way that you would call a Texan the same as a Californian, would you? Even though they are both Americans?

---

Population changes, and the future of Chinese economy?

The sex divide is a well published and well misunderstood problem. And as more Chinese girl babies get adopted overseas due to blind compassion and cultural ignorance, things will get worse. Let me get straight to the chase, most of the factory workers are young females that are from the country side. They are cheaper, less demanding, able to handle complex instructions, and more likely to defer to the male boss. Feminism has no place in a country that use those delicate hands to assemble the majority of the small electronics including ipod for the world.

Surprisingly, the industry that fastest to react to change to the demographics and the global competition of trade is one of the oldest ones. Textile. With all the hoopla about the Baidu and Alibaba has made, they are the LEAST innovative of Chinese companies. Chinese manage things like the Japanese, precedence. The clothes manufacturers don't really have anything to go by except for the seat of their pants. Top of the line automation, better benefits for the best workers (by Chinese standards), and retaining some workers for their experience even after marriage.

These guys know that things will get worse before it gets better for them. They were the ones that scream loudest about unfair trade policies in the west, and they are the quietest now. They now know that no matter how fair and equal the trade policies are, you can't compete on the world stage without a quality product AND service. You might make the same clothes for them(international companies) and some of the not so discerning Chinese consumer might not care; most of the consumers around the world do.

What am I trying to say using a Chinese style argument?

Things will change, but not the way most people think it will be.

The funny thing is the more education and prosperity China brings to the middle and western regions, the worse/faster the transition will come.

And before I forget, Chinese sociologist are already worried about the non existent social security net in China. Given the current rate of expansion and population changes, in 5-10 years, most Chinese working adults will have to feed for 2 sets of grand parents, 2 sets of parents, his/her wife/husband and their child/children. 10 mouths all together and they all need housing, food, health care, transportation and all the daily needs to sustain a human being.

A lot of people ask me what does Chinese people think of the outside world or Tibet lately. That's another story altogether, but I'll say one thing, given the current real estate prices, loan defaults, continue cartelization of industries in China, and environmental pollution, the future or the changes people are hoping for, might not be all it's crack up to be unless something drastic happens in the Chinese psyche about other people and public property.
 
My teacher in International Relations was in China the past week to talk to Chinese and Tibetan officials about the current situation.

He had some interesting arguments that you often don't hear in the mainstream debate.

1) Tibet have been a part of China since 1720(!) Thats a long time. To get some perspective, Hawaii was "forced" to join the USA in 1889.

2) China iberated Tibet from slavery and feudalism.

3) Not even the dalai lama want to completely separate Tibet from China.

Im not saying its right or wrong that China is in Tibet, just adding some arguments to the debate.
 
Yes, I got the joke.

Have you seen the recent National Geographic? It points out the problem over the one child policy and how China is going to face an aging population with insufficient workers to support them. That and the demographic mix of men and women is going to cause some problem. How in the hell is China ever going to manage the disproportion of men to women in the coming years?

The thought of China having a larger economy than the US, in ten years, is definitely worrisome.
 
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&r...e=UTF-8&sa=X&oi=news_result&resnum=1&ct=title

Well, nobody ever said China doesn't have propaganda machines, and it doesn't work..

:P

This has been going on for a while, and it's sad and amusing at the same time.

http://shanghaiist.com/2008/04/22/anti-french-anti-carrefour-fury-bubble-over.php

Check out some pictures here.

And check this out:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2008/04/25/2003410153

Anything happening at your school?

An American was supposedly viciously attacking while shopping in Carrefour.
 
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