Combat skills in FO3

Briosafreak

Briosafreak

Lived Through the Heat Death
On the BIS feedback forum Damien "Puuk" Foletto confirmed what combat skills we should expect on Fallout3:
<blockquote>All guns are lumped into Firearms skill, and throwing into melee. Unarmed is its own skill.</blockquote>
On the question that grenades shouldn`t be in the melee skill J.E. Sawyer had this to say:
<blockquote>Arguments based on linguistic semantics instead of practicality will do exactly zero towards persuading me that melee and throwing should not be combined. Feel free to continue arguing along these lines if you wish to produce similar results.
[...]In my opinion, you have incorrectly analyzed how thrown grenades are used. A grenade is thrown at a target using the physical force and muscular coordination of the subject. It flies under the power of the subject, not its own power, to arrive at the target. A knife is thrown at a target using the physical force and muscular coordination of the subject. It flies under the power of the subject, not its own power, to arrive at the target. A gun fires a bullet, which projects a slug towards a target. The bullet arrives at the target under the power of the propellant. The subject's muscle power plays a minimal role in how the bullet arrives at the target unless the subject is too physically weak to handle the gun.

When weapon skills are checked during combat in SPECIAL, they are checked to see if the subject has the requisite skill to make the weapon hit the target. This is a measure of accuracy. If we are to link skills that are used in this way, they should be grouped by similarity of the methods used to make the weapon hit the target. The method used to make a grenade hit a target is more similar to the method used to make a knife hit a target than it is to the method used to make a bullet hit a target.</blockquote>
What do you think guys and girls?
Link: Thread on the BIS feedback forum
 
The Emergency Tariff increased rates on wheat, sugar, meat, wool and other agricultural products (see all in List of taxed items) brought into the United States from foreign nations, which provided protection for domestic producers of those items. Farm state representatives saw the tariff as only the first step in a campaign for permanent protection and more government aid.[3] Although the tariff was enacted in order to protect American products and attempt the diffuse the post-war recession, this type of protectionist legislation ultimately created an imbalance in international commerce by heightening economic nationalism.[4] When the emergency tariff was first discussed in January, 1921, the records of commerce revealed that the United States exported in the month of January, of cottonseed oil, over 60,000,000 pounds to the countries of Europe. Six months after the passage of the emergency act we find out exports to Europe reduced to somewhere between 5,000,000 and 10,000,000 pounds monthly.[5] This measure remained in effect until the enactment of the Fordney-McCumber Tariff in 1922, one year after the Emergency Tariff was passed. This act was a permanent bill that imposed even higher tariff rates. Additionally, in 1922, the administration passed the Capper-Volstead Act, designed to protect farm cooperatives by exempting them from antitrust laws. The Report on the Emergency Tariff states that the effects of the emergency duties had been obscured by the great change in prices of all commodities in the past 18 months (since it went into effect). At the time when the Act became effective, the US and the rest of the world was in the midst of the greatest price decline that had occurred in many years. In the fall and winter of 1921 a revival set in though and the price index went up about 20 points. This rise in the price index must be considered when studying the effect of the emergency tariff. The Report states that after the passage of the act, there were practically no cases where prices rose immediately. It is also noted that in some cases a decrease of imports, as well as a continued decline in agricultural prices in the US, preceded the enactment of the emergency law.[6]
 
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Depends. On the first game, of course there's going to be firearm-only characters. But if there are really nifty melee weapons like swords (please oh please) and such people might want to try the other combat skills the second time around.

I for one say "bravo." This puts a lot more emphasis on the non-combat skills.
 
The Act also provided for the reinstitution of a federal income tax[2] as a means to compensate for anticipated lost revenue because of the reduction of tariff duties. The most recent effort to tax incomes (Wilson-Gorman Tariff of 1894) had been declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court because the tax on dividends, interest, and rents had been deemed to be a direct tax not apportioned by population. That obstacle, however, was removed by ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment on February 3, 1913.[3] The Act provided in part that: "...subject only to such exemptions and deductions as are hereinafter allowed, the net income of a taxable person shall include gains, profits, and income derived from salaries, wages, or compensation for personal service of whatever kind and in whatever form paid, or from professions, vocations, businesses, trade, commerce, or sales, or dealings in property, whether real or personal, growing out of the ownership or use of or interest in real or personal property, also from interest, rent, dividends, securities, or the transaction of any lawful business carried on for gain or profit, or gains or profits and income derived from any source whatever...."[4] The incomes of couples exceeding $4,000, as well as those of single persons earning $3,000 or more, were subject to a one percent federal tax.[5] Further, the measure provided a progressive tax structure, meaning that high income earners were required to pay at higher rates. It would require only a few years for the federal income tax to become the chief source of income for the government, far outdistancing tariff revenues. Less than 1% of the population paid federal income tax at the time.[citation needed] The act was applicable to incomes for 1913, 1914, and 1915. [6]
 
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I assume it will be much easier to obtain melee weapons than firearms, let alone ammo for the latter. That will encourage people to play melee characters. Not to mention hardcore roleplayers who want to play craziest, most difficult characters, just to see what it's like. :wink:
 
I don't see why it can't emphasize the non-combat skills. Lumping all the weapons into two skills leaves more room for non-combat tags.
 
Ratty said:
I assume it will be much easier to obtain melee weapons than firearms, let alone ammo for the latter. That will encourage people to play melee characters. Not to mention hardcore roleplayers who want to play craziest, most difficult characters, just to see what it's like. :wink:
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Yep, i have a feeling you`re right Ratty.


No swords on Fallout3, the devs made it clear right on the start of the project Bradylama.
 
I think it's pretty certain that there won't be swords. I don't agree with the decision, however. A sword is much more efficient than a sledgehammer or knife. In fact, I'd have spears and swords play a dominant part of combat. If ammo is prone to failure, as they've made some hints, then swords and spears would become quite a dominant part of combat for a lot of folks. It would be something akin to the early days of firearms where you could do your best with your single shot, but the other side would close and it would come down to a melee brawl.
 
Well, there is the issue of availability. A good sword is a hard thing to make, and a bad sword isn't better than an axe or a sledge hammer, items which actually could have a practical use outside of combat, spears can be used for hunting, etc.
 
That's a good point. Maybe they don't have swords because the art of making an effective sword has fallen out of memory. Spears, however, can be something as simple as a fire hardened end on a sharp stick.
 
Eldar said:
That's a good point. Maybe they don't have swords because the art of making an effective sword has fallen out of memory. Spears, however, can be something as simple as a fire hardened end on a sharp stick.
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The art of making good swords took centuries to develop in both Europe and Asia, and these days very few people know how to make them. After all, the demand for fuctional, rather aesthetic, swords is pretty low today. In the years following the apocalypse, I doubt that any of the survivors with that skill felt like passing on that knowledge was more important than for example how to make axes for cutting down trees, or even mundane things like making nails.
 
Briosafreak said:
On the BIS feedback forum Damien "Puuk" Foletto confirmed what combat skills we should expect on Fallout3:
<blockquote>All guns are lumped into Firearms skill, and throwing into melee. Unarmed is its own skill.</blockquote>
On the question that grenades shouldn`t be in the melee skill J.E. Sawyer had this to say:
<blockquote>Arguments based on linguistic semantics instead of practicality will do exactly zero towards persuading me that melee and throwing should not be combined. Feel free to continue arguing along these lines if you wish to produce similar results.
[...]In my opinion, you have incorrectly analyzed how thrown grenades are used. A grenade is thrown at a target using the physical force and muscular coordination of the subject. It flies under the power of the subject, not its own power, to arrive at the target. A knife is thrown at a target using the physical force and muscular coordination of the subject. It flies under the power of the subject, not its own power, to arrive at the target. A gun fires a bullet, which projects a slug towards a target. The bullet arrives at the target under the power of the propellant. The subject's muscle power plays a minimal role in how the bullet arrives at the target unless the subject is too physically weak to handle the gun.

When weapon skills are checked during combat in SPECIAL, they are checked to see if the subject has the requisite skill to make the weapon hit the target. This is a measure of accuracy. If we are to link skills that are used in this way, they should be grouped by similarity of the methods used to make the weapon hit the target. The method used to make a grenade hit a target is more similar to the method used to make a knife hit a target than it is to the method used to make a bullet hit a target.</blockquote>
What do you think guys and girls?
Link: Thread on the BIS feedback forum
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Will the name of the melee skill be changed? It seems kinda misleading to see melee but also get throwing included. I can see someone playing the whole game as a melee character, only to find out at the last minute, he's also been a good thrower :).
 
If not the name, than at least the description/tooltip should be made to reflect this so that even the player who doesn't read the manual should be able to get it.
 
Well i think it`s more than semantics here, they will have to change it, if not there will be all kind of confusions.
 
I'm not really talking about broadswords and such. If the Yakuza around New Reno had Wakizashis and such, then why not katanas?

I read the FAQ and it made me sad, as the developers have obviously never seen King of Reno.
 
Bradylama said:
I'm not really talking about broadswords and such. If the Yakuza around New Reno had Wakizashis and such, then why not katanas?

I read the FAQ and it made me sad, as the developers have obviously never seen King of Reno.
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Well just because something was used on the previous Fallout RPG doesn`t mean it made much sense or fitted the setting, nor automatically is good for the expected gameplay. Chris Avellone was the first in acknowledging this, the Yakuza and the swords were there because of some content he wanted to introduce in New Reno, but that was scratched at some point, so he just kept the random encounters on the outskirts of NR and the swords. He didn`t thought they really made much sense though.

So the devs while making the grounds on how the game should evolve decided that things like the swords and the talking animals were out of place and moved on, and i have to say i agree.
 
Did that content involve fighting Buddy Holly in a sword fighting tournament in order to replace Elvis as the King of Reno?
 
lol.

Fallout 2 had a lot of 80s related jokes. I mean, over the top sorts of joking. If we did have swords, I'd like to have functional swords. I wouldn't want katanas simply because that would entail a level of swordsmithing that I doubt we'd see in the wastes. Having short, functional swords doesn't seem out of the question, but they'd be more like long knives. If that's the case, just call them knives, right?
 
Eldar said:
I wouldn't want katanas simply because that would entail a level of swordsmithing that I doubt we'd see in the wastes. Having short, functional swords doesn't seem out of the question, but they'd be more like long knives. If that's the case, just call them knives, right?
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Yeah, but...

With both the Brotherhood and the Shi playing with materials science and the supposed instability of ammunition, I don't see why swordmaking couldn't make a comeback. Not to mention that for the Shi there (probably) would be some cultural motivation for the research.

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer distance weapons myself. If I wanted to swing a sword, I'd load up one of any number of fantasy games, but frankly I want a hard-core sci-fi RPG with working tech ( I'm not strictly referring to FO3 here, of course :mrgreen: ).

John
 
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