Concerns from game development of TB and RT...
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God is Dog backwards
Mildly Dipped
In addition to my other post, I should just say that I'm very disillusioned with FO3. I believe that BIS have the talent to make a great game, but it appears, just like EA does with its shitty games, they are being forced down significantly large paths by their publisher (interplay). I don't want real time combat in a Fallout RPG. It shouldn't be in there. It's a MAJOR part of the game.
Nor do I want multiplayer.
Given how crappy lionheart turned out to be, I have little hope for Fallout 3. I want it to be great, and think that BIS have the talent to do it, but real time combat and multiplayer stand a good chance of ruining it, or making a potentially great game into another average one. Not that interplay care, they're intent on ruining themselves and selling out. PS:T proves that BIS are very talented. IWD2 prove that even they cannot make a great game (IMO) when under pressure from their parent company.
Maybe they should market it as an 'action rpg', like lionheart was as soon as the complaints started coming in. Is there any way we can campaign in a more organised manner to get real time taken out, before it's too late (which i suspect would be around christmas this year)? Or multiplayer removed? I mean jesus interplay, who do you think's going to buy a single player RPG because it's got some multiplayer in it?
Nor do I want multiplayer.
Given how crappy lionheart turned out to be, I have little hope for Fallout 3. I want it to be great, and think that BIS have the talent to do it, but real time combat and multiplayer stand a good chance of ruining it, or making a potentially great game into another average one. Not that interplay care, they're intent on ruining themselves and selling out. PS:T proves that BIS are very talented. IWD2 prove that even they cannot make a great game (IMO) when under pressure from their parent company.
Maybe they should market it as an 'action rpg', like lionheart was as soon as the complaints started coming in. Is there any way we can campaign in a more organised manner to get real time taken out, before it's too late (which i suspect would be around christmas this year)? Or multiplayer removed? I mean jesus interplay, who do you think's going to buy a single player RPG because it's got some multiplayer in it?
Mr. Teatime said:
I don't see what lionheart has to do with VB.
Seriously.
I don't see the connection.
God is Dog backwards
Mildly Dipped
Kharn said:
It was overseen by BI, to how much extent we don't know. And to anyone who has played LH, it's blatantly obvious the game was aborted by someone. Barcelona plays the way we were led to expect with dlalogue, reasonably interesting quests. After that it's a hack fest, something which screams out, 'we needed to finish the game, and fast'. I suspect Interplay. And if they did that once, they can do it again with FO3. They've shown they're perfectly willing to cripple some key points of the franchise with real time combat, spending substantial resources on MP, etc.
Then Reflooxeiv is the piece of crap, and seriously, are you going to make Fallout 3 into a Quake 3 style Deathmatch game? Which is what I think Interplay is trying to make to our beloved game. Just to join in the craze of multiplayer (since all their other games have crappy MP support) deathmatch!
Down with Action Fallouts!
Down with Action Fallouts!
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
It`s cooperative MP Kain, still sounds like a waste of time, maybe it should be done in a patch or free expansion released later.
God is Dog backwards
Mildly Dipped
Briosafreak said:
I sincerely hope it's just tacked on becuase it's a contractual obligation. If the entire game is BALANCED for MP and quests designed with MP in mind, the SP game is going to suffer severely. Can you imagine how a great game like PS:T would work as a co op game? Not very well, I can assure you. Almost the entire story would have to be changed. Just like I suspect combat that's designed to work in both TB and RT will not be that great, I feel the same about a campaign that's designed to work as SP and MP. How about making MP just like a deathmatch thing, or a module style mission add on, seperate missions for MP?
Or make it deathmatch, team deathmatch, and things like that in RT MP for the "misa wanna clikkeeeeey" guys. And make TB really good for those who do care about real deep gameplay instead of RT.
TB MP would be a dissaster... since some newbies would just hang until their allowed turn time is gone (like 2 minutes or something like that.) Not to mention it would be slower than a turtle crawling across the earth.
TB MP would be a dissaster... since some newbies would just hang until their allowed turn time is gone (like 2 minutes or something like that.) Not to mention it would be slower than a turtle crawling across the earth.
)Mr. Teatime In this question there is not right or wrong, there is "I like this" and "I don't like that".
Let's analyse the situation.There is two points of view according to the developers.
1)You want to make a best seller - then you should keep the both TB and RT system.
2) You want to make a best seller and a good game - you should drop one of the systems.Why?Because one game is either turn based or real time.There is no compromise decision.If you try to balance the both systems you will end up with too easy TB or with too hard RT(unles you are all geniuses... godlike geniuses).Think about it.
If you choose 1 - developers and producers hapy, gamers not very.So lets suppose you choosed 2.Now the question is wich system must be dropped?Again the answers are 2:
2.1)Drop the real time - you will keep the old fans but won't gain much new fans.
2.2)Drop the turn based - you will most likely loose many old fans but will gain many many new fans.
So from marketing point of view you must drop the TB. If you want to make old fans happy - drop the RT.
Now the multiplayer - absolutely needed.But like someone sad in before - first make good singleplayer, then make multiplayer patch.
Let's analyse the situation.There is two points of view according to the developers.
1)You want to make a best seller - then you should keep the both TB and RT system.
2) You want to make a best seller and a good game - you should drop one of the systems.Why?Because one game is either turn based or real time.There is no compromise decision.If you try to balance the both systems you will end up with too easy TB or with too hard RT(unles you are all geniuses... godlike geniuses).Think about it.
If you choose 1 - developers and producers hapy, gamers not very.So lets suppose you choosed 2.Now the question is wich system must be dropped?Again the answers are 2:
2.1)Drop the real time - you will keep the old fans but won't gain much new fans.
2.2)Drop the turn based - you will most likely loose many old fans but will gain many many new fans.
So from marketing point of view you must drop the TB. If you want to make old fans happy - drop the RT.
Now the multiplayer - absolutely needed.But like someone sad in before - first make good singleplayer, then make multiplayer patch.
Human Shield
First time out of the vault
A poor combat engine (trying to merge RT and TB) will hurt sales.
Well-done turn-based would NOT put off new fans. Cut out all unseen actions like in X-Com and turn-based can be very fast-paced. How often is Diablo used as an insult for boring RPGs, people don't know how fast turnbased can be (especially with only controling one character).
Well-done turn-based would NOT put off new fans. Cut out all unseen actions like in X-Com and turn-based can be very fast-paced. How often is Diablo used as an insult for boring RPGs, people don't know how fast turnbased can be (especially with only controling one character).
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
Whoever complains of the "slowness" of TB should be forced to play ToEE. The game itself is just a fun small litle game, not great, common fantasy hack and slash.
The combat is brilliant. It`s what TB in RPGs should always have been.
The combat is brilliant. It`s what TB in RPGs should always have been.
IMHO I think that RT will not make new fans, because there's at least a cazilion of "missa wanna clicky" games, like Diablo, Nox and others.
The pause system it's not so bad (Torment, Baldur's Gate) but it's in no way any better than the TB system in fallout 2.
The "missa wanna clicky " type of players, IMHO don't even deserve to make an opinion about it, because they don't understand shit about games... Give them any shity game with good graphics and they get all excited, go home, click their brains out, download some cheats and trainers and end the game in one weak... If it passes two weaks of gameplaying, it's enormous and they don't like it.
What the fuck is the fun of clicky clicky kill 200 rogues (that, by the way, respawn in each time you pass the same place) get to a pre designated point in the map, and find a boss surrounded by 500 more rogues, kill them all and collect 200 weapons exactely alike... ohh I know, it's the feeling of being the faster clicker in the wild west... lol
The real gamers out there, like the turn based system, because we have to think about what to do with our action points, or else...
We like the game for being 50 or 60 hours long until the end, and we like the storyline!
The multiple endings is most fun, and the different characters we can create are really spectacular!
IMHO Fallout 2 is the best game ever created, and I still play it! I have GTA2 VC and, while it has good graphics, great sound, freedom of movements, it simply doesn't worth shit! It's good for making my little cousin play (he has 12 years old), but for me it's simple waste of time!
Thanks in advance
The pause system it's not so bad (Torment, Baldur's Gate) but it's in no way any better than the TB system in fallout 2.
The "missa wanna clicky " type of players, IMHO don't even deserve to make an opinion about it, because they don't understand shit about games... Give them any shity game with good graphics and they get all excited, go home, click their brains out, download some cheats and trainers and end the game in one weak... If it passes two weaks of gameplaying, it's enormous and they don't like it.
What the fuck is the fun of clicky clicky kill 200 rogues (that, by the way, respawn in each time you pass the same place) get to a pre designated point in the map, and find a boss surrounded by 500 more rogues, kill them all and collect 200 weapons exactely alike... ohh I know, it's the feeling of being the faster clicker in the wild west... lol
The real gamers out there, like the turn based system, because we have to think about what to do with our action points, or else...
We like the game for being 50 or 60 hours long until the end, and we like the storyline!
The multiple endings is most fun, and the different characters we can create are really spectacular!
IMHO Fallout 2 is the best game ever created, and I still play it! I have GTA2 VC and, while it has good graphics, great sound, freedom of movements, it simply doesn't worth shit! It's good for making my little cousin play (he has 12 years old), but for me it's simple waste of time!
Thanks in advance
EraserMark
First time out of the vault
Oh you Clickky Clickky Bang Bang...Clikky Clikky Bang Bang we love you... and oh you Clikky Clikky Bang Bang we need you...
You know after playing Fallout tactics for awhile, I don't think it would be that bad if it was realitme like tactics with a good amount of pausing options.
I completely prefer turn-based. I love X-Com, I love Fallout, but they do have to sell games and if they can kind of combine & improve the RT and TB like Fallout Tactics to 3, I don't think I'd be all that bothered.
Just my humble opinion..
You know after playing Fallout tactics for awhile, I don't think it would be that bad if it was realitme like tactics with a good amount of pausing options.
I completely prefer turn-based. I love X-Com, I love Fallout, but they do have to sell games and if they can kind of combine & improve the RT and TB like Fallout Tactics to 3, I don't think I'd be all that bothered.
Just my humble opinion..
OK, you cant judge if a person understand games or not, only by his prefer about RT and TB.If you do this you are Stupid.Im sick of you guys.You thing you are the intelligent ones, because you like TB.But you dont realize that TB is NOT REALISTIC.Its not about slow and fast.I agree that diablo or nox are not more realistic than fallout.But i am sure that well made RT is more cool and realistic than well made TB.When i play TB i cant stop thinking about the fact that im playing just a game.
P.S. do not missunderstand me.Fallout 2 is my favourite game, and thats why i want Fallout 3 to be the greatest thing ever made.But thats not gonna happen with TB battles.
P.S. do not missunderstand me.Fallout 2 is my favourite game, and thats why i want Fallout 3 to be the greatest thing ever made.But thats not gonna happen with TB battles.
SkynetV4
Mildly Dipped
FO 1, 2 were/are/will be considered two of the best RPGs even with their TB. I'll share one of my experiences with twitch-gamers (two of my ex-best friends). When FO1 came out, most of them were put off because shooting was slow and called shots were boring, yadda yadda. When Tactics came out, they loved it! One of them has terrible taste for games (FF8 > FF6?!?!) and the other one hates games without MP.
Mr. M-Real you didn't answer a sinple question that was in my comment... What's the fun of clicking, clicking and more clicking?? In Fallout Tactics you can play both ways, do you play it Real Time?? What's the fun?? I tried to play-it RT and I think it sucked... If you try both ways you have to agree with me... Turn Based it's a lot more fun playing... That's just my opinion, and do not get all worked up with that... I respect yours!!