Diversity in video games and whatnot

Garbagecrone said:
So the franchises are ruined by virtue of their having black people in them, is what you're saying?

And I didn't say that, I mentioned how you could help independent minority developers getting set up so they don't eat up your sweet precious Battlefield and Mafia sequels.
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Im saying completely changing the setting and theme of Mafia III to accomadate their new "diverse" main character and whinge about racism in a series thats supposed to be about the mafia ruined it

And completely changing WWI, an actual historical setting is completely rideculous and stupid and going so far as to go out of their way and make the black character the character giving the most focus with all the box art and have him be the narrator too couldnt feel anymore forced and unatural in a game about the European conflict that didnt even have those black American troops on the ground till towards the end of the war.

If they were making games I was imterested in (and crowdfunding didnt end up a total scam 90% of the time) I might have.
 
Dr Fallout said:
What about Kingdom Come: Deliverance?
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Luckily we don't have to worry about that.
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^
Another example of a DISGUSTING White dev DARING to do the evil act of not forcing diversity into a setting where it doesnt fit.
Everyone knows we wuz bohemians n shiet.
 
Vergil said:
Im saying completely changing the setting and theme of Mafia III to accomadate their new "diverse" main character and whinge about racism in a series thats supposed to be about the mafia ruined it
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It's still *about* the mafia, though. Just in a different light, from a different perspective.

Vergil said:
And completely changing WWI, an actual historical setting is completely rideculous and stupid and going so far as to go out of their way and make the black character the character giving the most focus with all the box art and have him be the narrator too couldnt feel anymore forced and unatural in a game about the European conflict that didnt even have those black American troops on the ground till towards the end of the war.
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Every video game is a fantasy. BF1 is an unbelievable FPS because you don't have to pry bullets out of your wounds, disinfect, and bandage yourself by this nitpick.

Vergil said:
(and crowdfunding didnt end up a total scam 90% of the time)
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Got a source on that statistic?
 
Garbagecrone said:
It's still *about* the mafia, though. Just in a different light, from a different perspective.



Every video game is a fantasy. BF1 is an unbelievable FPS because you don't have to pry bullets out of your wounds, disinfect, and bandage yourself by this nitpick.



Got a source on that statistic?
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Yes a game "about" the mafia where they aren't the primary focus anymore, you don't play as them anymore, they're randomly sidelined so the game can be a black power fantasy about lynching kkk members and beloved and recognized characters like Vito are totally sodelined and turned into more minor supporting characters.

Theres a difference between not adding in autistically minor details to the game like dealing with wounds realistically and going full LARP mod and just randomly placing shit that doesn't make any sense and doesn't have a gameplay justification like your wounds example.

It wasn't a literal statistic. I was just referring to the very large number of them that end up failing to meet expectations, never come out, get stuck in "early access" forever, end up missing features and etc. Its just with seeing shit like MightyNumber9, DayZ and other sketchy crowdfunded games like that I don't have a lot of faith in it. Not enough to start pledging money for a promise at least.
 
Dr Fallout said:
So... umm... diversity... yay... Black people in Europe during the medieval era...
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Aside from Crusader Kings, there's not much in the way of games based in the literal Middle Ages I can think of with this "problem." Fictional fantasy worlds certainly have no obligation to be White dudes fighting other White dudes.

Still, I remember how SHOCKED so many Bioware fans were when they made the people of Dragon Age's Rivain were going to be Black.

Yes a game "about" the mafia where they aren't the primary focus anymore, you don't play as them anymore, they're randomly sidelined so the game can be a black power fantasy about lynching kkk members and beloved and recognized characters like Vito are totally sodelined and turned into more minor supporting characters.
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Versus playing a white power fantasy as being Italian gangsters?
 
They have no obligation to make them not White guys either.

Also moslem invaders who slaughtered and took over parts of Iberia in the early middle ages aren't going to jusify massive amounts of blacks and arabs in say, Northern France or one of the baltic countires for example. It's a little dishonest to say "lol there were loads of black people in Europe diversity ho!" because of hostile arab invaders to the far south
 
Vergil said:
They have no obligation to make them not White guys either.

Also moslem invaders who slaughtered and took over parts of Iberia in the early middle ages aren't going to jusify massive amounts of blacks and arabs in say, Northern France or one of the baltic countires for example. It's a little dishonest to say "lol there were loads of black people in Europe diversity ho!" because of hostile arab invaders to the far south
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hmm...Never heard any slaughter. Looting, yeah it happens in south aquitane and narbonne. but there is nothing close to a massacre in iberian conquest. take as what you want, but iberia andalusian is the best example of what you could think of society with multiple etnicity in european land
 
CT Phipps said:
Still, I remember how SHOCKED so many Bioware fans were when they made the people of Dragon Age's Rivain were going to be Black.
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Which is weird, in comparison with the Elder Scrolls, where your ethnicity has a direct impact on your nature. If you play a redguard (aka, an african guy), you can take more damage and run faster (!) because... er... "all black people run faster and don't feel as much pain as the other people", apparently? That could come from a slaver's guide book when you think about it.
And if you play an Imperial (aka, a roman), it is heavily implied that you are naturally born intelligent and business savy. Considering how the subject is sensible, and how scandals can come very easily, I'm surprised that the elder scrolls always managed to pass through with this.
 
eissa said:
hmm...Never heard any slaughter. Looting, yeah it happens in south aquitane and narbonne. but there is nothing close to a massacre in iberian conquest. take as what you want, but iberia andalusian is the best example of what you could think of society with multiple etnicity in european land
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Well I'd consider multiple raids and invasions of Christian lands and then subjugating them by making them pay the jizya to continue practicing their religion in their own country and tried multiole times to expand into France pretty close. Not to mention the islamic slave trade that would kidnap South Europeans and put them into brutal slavery.
I'm just saying these kind of things wouldnt exactly breed thr European-wide diversity these people are wanting. If the game is set in Spain during this era than yea it's totally resonable, not for the entire rest of Europe.
 
The Moors weren't even black, they were just dark-skinned people of the Maghreb, which caused Europeans to label blacks as Moors.

CT Phipps said:
Aside from Crusader Kings, there's not much in the way of games based in the literal Middle Ages I can think of with this "problem." Fictional fantasy worlds certainly have no obligation to be White dudes fighting other White dudes.

Still, I remember how SHOCKED so many Bioware fans were when they made the people of Dragon Age's Rivain were going to be Black.

Versus playing a white power fantasy as being Italian gangsters?
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There's a difference between strict adherence to the laws of nature and needlessly ignoring them just to shoehorn some diversity into a game. For example, all the Dragon Age games had black Dwarves. How does a people that lives underground turn black?

If you're playing Mafia as a power fantasy, you're playing it wrong, although Mafia 2 was a bit of a fuck-up in regards to this. Popular culture has given the mafia a certain image and appeal which has absolutely nothing to do with blacks, and is pointless if you're not playing as an Italian. Even playing as a member of a mob which actually had a lot of common ground with the Italians, such as the Jews or the Irish, would still warrant its own game.

How many complaints did you hear about the protagonist in San Andreas being black? Now compare that to what you hear about Mafia 3, and figure out the difference.
 
eissa said:
hmm...Never heard any slaughter. Looting, yeah it happens in south aquitane and narbonne. but there is nothing close to a massacre in iberian conquest. take as what you want, but iberia andalusian is the best example of what you could think of society with multiple etnicity in european land
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Well there was some slaughter as in any invading war, but indeed they were so civilized and avanced it was almost a pity when they got their asses kicked out of Iberia
Iberia and later Spain was too pretty multiethnical for most its history until 1492 (kick all Jews and Muslims, Converted or not! Yay).
 
Vergil said:
Well I'd consider multiple raids and invasions of Christian lands and then subjugating them by making them pay the jizya to continue practicing their religion in their own country and tried multiole times to expand into France pretty close. Not to mention the islamic slave trade that would kidnap South Europeans and put them into brutal slavery.
I'm just saying these kind of things wouldnt exactly breed thr European-wide diversity these people are wanting.
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the conquest of iberian was just too smooth for the demand of raid tactic. However, it does hugely present in the gaul invasion of umayyad. looting of church, castle or manor. But there is no such thing as mongolian-style slaughter of civilian happen, and it doesnt make sense for a raiding tactic too. Also, one of the reason why the invasion of iberia was swift is because lack actual resistance, and general support of some visigothic noble (ussually from the side of Achila II) to tariq ibn ziyad. King roderikus is hated by his subject, he is not king by law. He usurped the kingdom and this is make sense consider how Centralized his goverment were at that time. Also his general prejudice againts jew doesnt help it either. If there is staged massacre happen, the conquest would not be so fast like that
 
I never said there was a staged massacre, just that a lot of Christian, Spanish soldiers died and the islamic takeover of Spain and thus between that and the conquest of Christian, European land, the surrounding European states wouldnt take very kindly to them or their people.
 
Vergil said:
I never said there was a staged massacre, just that a lot of Christian, Spanish soldiers died and the islamic takeover of Spain and thus between that and the conquest of Christian, European land, the surrounding European states wouldnt take very kindly to them or their people.
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It was pretty resentless. Only exiles and refugees in the North were still angry and it was still more religious/territorial than personal, as the Al-Andalus lasted for five centuries.
Indeed, it was an inclusive kind of invasion, so inside they cohabited happy and outside the lands... Not much

Don't feel sorry for us, we killed waaaay more of them later, and that's not including the Crusade ^^
 
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