Fallout 3 at E3 - Gaming Trend

[GamingTrend]

Do you know WHY Bloodlines is bugged? Because of their publisher. They had to fire tons of people even before Bloodlines was finished. It's the publishers fault that Troika died and that Bloodlines never was a bugfree game.

I'd rather see F3 with Troika than Beth, both of Troikas tech demos look great, and they have the proper skills to make a great RPG game.

Let's apply this to the real world. I say to you - I want you to build me a house. Here is 250,000 dollars to do it and I want it done in 15 weeks. You say yes or no at this point based on your ability to deliver on that promise. In this case, Troika said they could build a relatively bug free product in the allotted time at the allotted price. They went past that date, had tons of bugs, and apparently didn't spend the money they were given wisely. Why should Activision be responsible for that? Back to the house analogy - why do I have to worry about your employees? I paid you for the end result, not the drama and BS that happens in the middle. In the end, I want a house that doesn't leak. If you can't deliver that, don't take the contract.

I am amused that all major game sites love Fallout 3 soo much, I have yet to see an negative preview of it. I guess that publishers love to spend a couple of extra dollars for some great PR from a magazine or a site which can fool a couple of hundred people into buying their game.

Sad to say, my site is not a major site. We also have never received a dime from 2k or Bethesda. Could it just be that the game looked good? Pssh...no way that could happen, right?

Why not invite NMA or any other major PA themed community leaders for a preview? To show that the game is as great as they want it to be.

If NMA wanted to go to E3 they probably could have gotten a day pass to check out Fallout 3 on their own dime.

I realize that it's only a few comments from a few people. But it can be really easy for those few comments to create a slanted perception of what the fan community here is really like.

As I said before, I imagine it is hard to have somebody or a bunch of somebodies yelling at you for a product that they've never even seen. I know I'd avoid it like the plague.

That said, Activision supposedly held back release of a Bloodlines patch for a long time, although I don't know whether that's entirely true.

From what I was told (and take that for what it is worth) that is just rumormongering from Troika fans. They'd have no reason to hold it unless it needed more testing (which would make sense, given the status of the product at large)

Brussel sprouts also have no reason to exist.

I can back this stance. Nuke from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

What was one thing in the demo you didn't like in the demo?

I have some fears about the Havok engine and procedural animation. We saw one or two wonky death animations where the skeleton turned to Jello. There is time to tune that, but given the walk/jump animation in Oblivion, I'll admit that it has me worried. We also didn't see enough of the Radiant AI to really hear if we are going to hear "I saw a Radscorpion today. Horrible creatures" or not. Also, the profanity seemed a little over the top. Hopefully that'll be toned down or so spread out as to just be a blip on the radar.

Vault 69er - Trioka Apology request

Hold your breath, I'll get right back to you. Your job here seems to be to antagonize me, so unless you have a legitimate question that I can answer, I'm done with ya.

FeelTheRads - Assumptions

I was clear that they were assumptions. Accept them or don't.

FeelTheRads - Troike

I play roughly 200-250 games a year. I guess I'm not allowed to misfile one in my head.

I don't need to play Oblivion to know it's a crap game.

- Check out damned near any review out there. Or don't. I don't care. Either way, you clearly have no questions to ask, and like Vault 69er are just trying to antagonize, so unless you have a legitimate question that I can answer, I'm done with you too.

lisak2k - disregarding my question

I answered your question. You like to take things out of context (your first link) and ignore the answers. You asked me if I knew for certain that we'd be able to mod out the compass. You already knew the answer as we know mods are still 'up in the air'. How is that constructive again?

No reason to worry about it, Per. No offensive materials will be included, it's just a simple parody.

I really tried but I just can't care less. Honestly, I tried!

Bad Karma - And it seems as you admit that there, at least for me

If you distort what I say and write, and then fill in the blanks yourself, I can't help you. I said that THEY said that they were fixing it. I didn't follow it with "And here is proof!" or anything of the sort.

And it seems if you choose to believe what you were told, without being critical about it.

See the above. I was quoting somebody else, that is all. I reserve my conclusions for the final product. It is a lot like tasting a drink - the first sip may be great, but when you get half way through and your mouth feels like it is coated with wax from all the sugar, you may change your mind. I'm done defending this.

t's hard to believe that you catched some subtle done music change while people around you might whispering with each other,

Room was silent minus Todd and the demo, and I was right next to the speaker and Todd.

I think you're speaking about JA3, so didn't they told you, that the graphic isn't finished now?

Honestly? They said "Uhh...so we are being faithful to the original Jagged Alliance games, but honestly I'm the only one who has played the other two so I was chosen to demo it for E3." ( I think I have the audio at the office...) and then pretty much given the reigns to play it. Having played JA1 and 2, I can draw some pretty quick initial impressions based on what I saw. It has nothing to do with anything but the product in front of me....

Why should there be a question?

Because that is what I came here to do. Some folks seemed to have missed the memo on that.

lego-blocks

Honestly, how much fun would it be to have a bag full of gun parts that you constantly have to juggle just to find the right cotterpin? It this REALLY a feature you want? It isn't "Gun Simulator 2007".

Why do you think, there isn't a balance now for their uberweapon ina demo wich they made to to give you the impression of the end product?

You clearly haven't been to a press event. I can think of countless E3 demos of products that had DRASTICALLY changed before launch. This was meant as an INTRO to the product, and in no way was fully representative of the balance that'll be in the final product. Developers balance their games throughout the development process, so everything is subject to change. Why would you expect any different for a game that is a year+ off? Ever look at the early pictures of the Starcraft Alpha?

And he saw the same dialoge-lines as you did.

I suspect that Todd ran the same demo the same way near every time. It was likely rehearsed and chosen as a good time-fitting representation of the product concept. I doubt they'd be fooling around with dialog options that might lead to content that wasn't built yet. Again, you can't judge the dialog merely by this tiny demo.

Writing critiques

My point is that my articles would never get finished if I just sat around and tried to nitpick anything I could find on a product that isn't finished. A preview is a preview - going on and on and on and on about balance that'll be vastly different in the end with a critical eye doesn't do anyone any good.

overall gaming journalism

Don't lump me in with them. My point that this is all run out of my pocket is that I am not beholden to anyone to be nice about anything. I just try to give my honest opinion. Other sites you'll see banners for a game right next to their Editor's Choice award, but not mine. I just try to deliver my honest opinon.

defending Beth

Nope, just speculating. Perhaps next time I'll just come in and ignore any question that I can't answer with fact. That seems to be what so many of you want. I guess as a journalist I'm not allowed to have my own opinion or be able to speculate on why something is the way it is. Silly me.

It don't show the amount that is put into making the whole world that way, but it shows how much amount is put into this single chair.

It is an example. You clearly don't agree. You'll have to just ignore everything until the product is released if you can't see that an example just *might* represent the effort on the whole product.

1950's also were forwarded 200 years or so.

I still disagree that this is the case. Just 50 years for us hasn't been so kind. We have "OMGWTFBBQROFLYCOPTER HI 2 UU!!!111!" text, kids who can't complete a sentence without swearing, and far worse. 200 years living in a wasteland has to have an effect.

This reply is way too long.....

 

[Vault 69er]

Hold your breath, I'll get right back to you. Your job here seems to be to antagonize me, so unless you have a legitimate question that I can answer, I'm done with ya.

My job? I couldn't care less about who you are or what you do, sir.
But I won't stand by while the "lol Troika made bugged games" argument gets rehashed yet again in order to defend games like Oblivion and Fallout 3.
You've repeatedly made false assertions involving Troika, and failed to respond to my counter that Bethesda's games are just as - if not more - buggy than Troika's ever were.

Answer all the questions you want, but if you misrepresent, don't be surprised if somebody calls you out.

 

[Per]

As I said before, I imagine it is hard to have somebody or a bunch of somebodies yelling at you for a product that they've never even seen.

Though I agree a lot of the bashing is unwarranted or exaggerated, things like this also puzzle me. Clear this up for me: is what we're doing here talking about the things in the game we know nothing about, as opposed to the things we have seen in the news? Or are you using the word "see" literally, and we should only start talking the moment Bethesda see fit to let us watch some in-game footage with our own eyes?

 

[Bezimek]

ïåðâûé çàïóñê ïîñëå êàïåòàëêè

"Àáñîëþòíî ñåðüåçíî.  Âàøåé êó÷å óìíûõ ñëîâ ÿ íå óâèäåë äîêàçàòåëüñòâà íåñóùåñòâîâàíèÿ Áîãà." ×åðò âîçüìè âñå æå âàì ñòîèò äîïóñòèòü íàëè÷èå ñìûñëà â òîì, ÷òî ÿ ïèñàë. Àòåèñò, êàê è ëþáîé äðóãî

 

[GamingTrend]

As I said before, I imagine it is hard to have somebody or a bunch of somebodies yelling at you for a product that they've never even seen.

Though I agree a lot of the bashing is unwarranted or exaggerated, things like this also puzzle me. Clear this up for me: is what we're doing here talking about the things in the game we know nothing about, as opposed to the things we have seen in the news? Or are you using the word "see" literally, and we should only start talking the moment Bethesda see fit to let us watch some in-game footage with our own eyes?

People are condemning so many features of the game based on pure speculation. E.G. the dialog tree. We saw so little of it that there is no way you can condemn it. It would make more sense to wait until you can actually see those things for yourself to really judge. I can give you my impression, as can other people, but in the end it is how you receive it that matters to you. Why condemn it based on speculation? What good comes from that?

Thanks for another reply with no questions in it Vault.

 

[GamingTrend]

"never received a dime from 2k or Bethesda" - I liked that But why pay for something that you already buy ?

I have no idea what you are saying. That statement made no sense.

 

[lisac2k]

You asked me if I knew for certain that we'd be able to mod out the compass. You already knew the answer as we know mods are still 'up in the air'. How is that constructive again?

Then you shouldn't be telling us to mod it [compass] out in the first place. You see, that's the problem here. There's too much 'up in the air', and you assume it's gonna be one way or another, usually better than worse.

I sometime assume it will be rather worse than better. However, there are things which are not to be assumed. They won't release modding tools (and it's not an assumption), they screwed up scientific base upon which the game universe was build (again, not an assumption), they put in some rather controversial plot and gameplay designs (do I have to repeat that it's not an assumption?)

The only difference between you and me are the sides, although we're almost equally far away from the middle. You are cautious optimistic, and I'm cautious pessimistic. On the scale from 1 to 10, where 5 is the middle, I'm 2 and you are 7, or even 8.

Anyway, thanks for answering the question. Another one, if I may (this one will make me sound as a religious fanatic):

Have you red the Fallout Bible? If yes, do you think Bethesda's Fallout 3 fits nice in the universe explained in the FBible?

 

[Killzig]

I have some fears about the Havok engine and procedural animation. We saw one or two wonky death animations where the skeleton turned to Jello. There is time to tune that, but given the walk/jump animation in Oblivion, I'll admit that it has me worried. We also didn't see enough of the Radiant AI to really hear if we are going to hear "I saw a Radscorpion today. Horrible creatures" or not. Also, the profanity seemed a little over the top. Hopefully that'll be toned down or so spread out as to just be a blip on the radar.

god damn, sorry for going Johnny Two-Times on you, I'm going to go read the paper read the paper.

So the 20' behemoth was A - OK for you? Obviously, this was a demo and it sounds like this whole sequence of events is completely scripted (BOS/Mutie meet up). But didn't the behemoth feel out of place? I was reminded of Gears of War and finding a hammer of dawn (fatman) minutes before encountering a GIANT SCARY MONSTER (tm) a bit further down the line. Part of my concern is that mutants have been reduced to your generic shooter horror-inspired monster. They were a lot more than that, even in Fallout when they were your main enemies.

Yes, the animation was pretty lousy in Oblivion. Though do you think part of that was the emphasis on the first person view?

Todd Howard seems to be pushing the line that FPP is the only true immersing viewpoint in games. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Did anyone challenge him on this? How would you address concerns with peripheral vision and not "feeling" the "weight" of movement in Oblivion's first person camera?

My personal experience, a lot of times when in FP in Oblivion I felt like I was playing a shooter with the -NOCLIP cheat on. It also felt very low to the ground. It was bothersome enough that I only switched to FP when firing off an arrow. I find it kind of funny that Shadowrun throws you out into a slightly overhead third person view when you bust out the katana because they realized from a design perspective that melee combat in first person just wasn't any fun. Yet in Oblivion you get the same reticle, the same view.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Here's a question, tho':

What does the interface look like outside of the combat? Is it the same as we can see on the resident evil mutant screenshot?

 

[Vault 69er]

Thanks for another reply with no questions in it Vault.

Am I to understand nobody's allowed to talk to you unless it's a question?
Inflated ego, much?

My point stands. The fact that you continually evade it marks you as dishonest, and any answers you might have therefore useless.

 

[GamingTrend]

Then you shouldn't be telling us to mod it [compass] out in the first place. You see, that's the problem here. There's too much 'up in the air', and you assume it's gonna be one way or another, usually better than worse.

Again, you already knew the answer, and you knew it was speculation. There were no tools to mod so many games out there, but so many fans do. If you want it out, somebody will figure out a way.

I sometime assume it will be rather worse than better. However, there are things which are not to be assumed. They won't release modding tools (and it's not an assumption), they screwed up scientific base upon which the game universe was build (again, not an assumption), they put in some rather controversial plot and gameplay designs (do I have to repeat that it's not an assumption?)

I'm not going to bother pointing out your assumptions.

The only difference between you and me are the sides, although we're almost equally far away from the middle. You are cautious optimistic, and I'm cautious pessimistic. On the scale from 1 to 10, where 5 is the middle, I'm 2 and you are 7, or even 8.

Try a 6.

Have you red the Fallout Bible? If yes, do you think Bethesda's Fallout 3 fits nice in the universe explained in the FBible?[/quote]

Good question. Yes, I have. Some parts certainly mesh, but others don't. The concept of a vault that has been in use for 100 years doesn't jive with the fact that the vaults were not really meant to 'save' humanity. In addition, the BoS hadn't expanded very far by F2, but 100 years is a long time, so maybe that fits that they'd move out to the East Coast eventually. It'll be a long while before we really get to see the extent to which some things are explained and whether it really 'meshes'.

 

[Vault 69er]

Some parts certainly mesh, but others don't. The concept of a vault that has been in use for 100 years doesn't jive with the fact that the vaults were not really meant to 'save' humanity.

Bad example. Vault 13 was intended to remain closed for 200 years.

 

[GamingTrend]

So the 20' behemoth was A - OK for you? Obviously, this was a demo and it sounds like this whole sequence of events is completely scripted (BOS/Mutie meet up). But didn't the behemoth feel out of place? I was reminded of Gears of War and finding a hammer of dawn (fatman) minutes before encountering a GIANT SCARY MONSTER (tm) a bit further down the line. Part of my concern is that mutants have been reduced to your generic shooter horror-inspired monster. They were a lot more than that, even in Fallout when they were your main enemies.

Agreed. Some of them were stupid, some were smart in F1 and F2. I'd like to think that Bethesda is aware of that and won't reduce them to Target Practice NinjaMonkey #324, but only time will tell.

Yes, the animation was pretty lousy in Oblivion. Though do you think part of that was the emphasis on the first person view?

Not at all. Just practice with the Havok engine. I've heard this from a lot of folks, not just Bethesda. It is a great engine if you can get it tuned, but that takes practice.

Todd Howard seems to be pushing the line that FPP is the only true immersing viewpoint in games. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Did anyone challenge him on this? How would you address concerns with peripheral vision and not "feeling" the "weight" of movement in Oblivion's first person camera?

No, I don't believe that is the case. I think it adds something as you can put a great deal more detail in a 1st/3rd person perspective, but I don't think it is the only true immersing viewpoint by far. Baldur's Gate 2 was pretty damned immersive for being a 3rd person Isometric title.

My personal experience, a lot of times when in FP in Oblivion I felt like I was playing a shooter with the -NOCLIP cheat on. It also felt very low to the ground. It was bothersome enough that I only switched to FP when firing off an arrow. I find it kind of funny that Shadowrun throws you out into a slightly overhead third person view when you bust out the katana because they realized from a design perspective that melee combat in first person just wasn't any fun. Yet in Oblivion you get the same reticle, the same view.

I always felt odd swinging my disenbodied hands around in Oblivion as well. I think that a lot of companies use the 'You are a blank template - these are YOUR hands" thing though, some with better effect than others.

 

[GamingTrend]

Some parts certainly mesh, but others don't. The concept of a vault that has been in use for 100 years doesn't jive with the fact that the vaults were not really meant to 'save' humanity.

Bad example. Vault 13 was intended to remain closed for 200 years.

As an experiment in longevity - not to 'save humanity'

 

[GamingTrend]

Here's a question, tho':

What does the interface look like outside of the combat? Is it the same as we can see on the resident evil mutant screenshot?

Yes

 

[GamingTrend]

Thanks for another reply with no questions in it Vault.

Am I to understand nobody's allowed to talk to you unless it's a question?
Inflated ego, much?

My point stands. The fact that you continually evade it marks you as dishonest, and any answers you might have therefore useless.

No, I just won't put up with your inflammatory nonsense. I'm not evading, you are just being rude and I don't have the time to bother with it.

 

[Vault 69er]

No, I just won't put up with your inflammatory nonsense. I'm not evading, you are just being rude and I don't have the time to bother with it.

In terms of dealing with Troika bashers I'm being positively friendly.
If you want polite conversation, don't engage in baseless slander of a good game developer. It's that simple.

As an experiment in longevity - not to 'save humanity'

So what? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[lisac2k]

I'm not going to bother pointing out your assumptions.

These are facts, sorry. Emil confirmed the modding tools will hardly come out on the horizon, other points are confirmed by numerous previews and Bethesda itself. But let's leave this, it's not a question .

Try a 6.

I wouldn't.

Some parts certainly mesh, but others don't. The concept of a vault that has been in use for 100 years doesn't jive with the fact that the vaults were not really meant to 'save' humanity.

You mean 200 years?

In addition, the BoS hadn't expanded very far by F2, but 100 years is a long time, so maybe that fits that they'd move out to the East Coast eventually. It'll be a long while before we really get to see the extent to which some things are explained and whether it really 'meshes'.

Now, let me analyze this statistically... Most of the crucial game elements were sloppily mutilated by Beth or thrown out. What's the probability of doing the BoS story properly?

Scepticism level breaks through the ceiling. Sorry.

OK, thanks once again for the answers, I might come up with more questions later, let's hear the others.

 

[GamingTrend]

These are facts, sorry. Emil confirmed the modding tools will hardly come out on the horizon, other points are confirmed by numerous previews and Bethesda itself. But let's leave this, it's not a question

Show me a quote. The one I read said it was "up in the air" because every minute spent on modding tools is one less on the final product.

You mean 200 years?

And I quote:
"Basically, the Vaults were never intended to save the population of the United States. With a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13, and Vault-Tec was commissioned to build only 122 such Vaults. The real reason for these Vaults was to study pre-selected segments of the population to see how they react to the stresses of isolationism and how successfully they re-colonize after the Vault opens. Some of the experiments include:
Vault 13 Intended to stay closed for 200 years as a study of prolonged isolation, the broken water chip forced the Overseer to improvise and use the Vault Dweller as a pawn. Later study of the Vault 13 records by the Enclave led them to their current plan to end the war.

Now, let me analyze this statistically... Most of the crucial game elements were sloppily mutilated by Beth or thrown out. What's the probability of doing the BoS story properly?

You've already made up your mind. Why bother.

Scepticism level breaks through the ceiling. Sorry.

Fine. You'll get only facts I can back concretely from now on. I can't imagine why you are trying to make this difficult for me since I'm the one trying to answer questions for you....

 

[Vault 69er]

And I quote:
"Basically, the Vaults were never intended to save the population of the United States. With a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13, and Vault-Tec was commissioned to build only 122 such Vaults. The real reason for these Vaults was to study pre-selected segments of the population to see how they react to the stresses of isolationism and how successfully they re-colonize after the Vault opens. Some of the experiments include:
Vault 13 Intended to stay closed for 200 years as a study of prolonged isolation, the broken water chip forced the Overseer to improvise and use the Vault Dweller as a pawn. Later study of the Vault 13 records by the Enclave led them to their current plan to end the war.

How does that contradict how long a population stays in a given Vault?
They were not intended to save the American population as advertised but they did so nonetheless.
We don't know Vault 101's role in the experiment and yet you're saying that people staying in it for 200 years is contradictory?
Who's making assumptions now?