Dubby, I can find no words to describe just how awesome you are.
Fallout 3 Compendium - Release 12 - Beta v0.6.0.2
- Thread starter Dubby
- Start date
JayTheGay said:i never used any drugs in any fallout btw. temporary stat boosts are for nerds
Drugs are no substitute for skill
.Also console gamers have soft hands. Nearly all console gamers I talked with found Fallout 3 to be too hard, where as all PC gamers found it too easy.
Dubby said:
what exactly do you mean?
and btw, meele will always remain totally unappealing as long as you cant target boy parts and miss them, as well :S
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offtopic:
chipk said:Drugs are no substitute for skill
Also console gamers have soft hands. Nearly all console gamers I talked with found Fallout 3 to be too hard, where as all PC gamers found it too easy.
TOO HARD?!?!??! holy moly
well, maybe no wonder, due to console retarded controls.
logitech G5 mouse + a decent gfx card cost together less then an xbox, and leave you with a powerful PC instead of a "lame PC + a console, whch you cannoit play any mods at"-superset.
i never understood any people using consoles after 1998 or something
Mikael Grizzly said:
I think those will do quite nicely ^_^ Thank you.
JayTheGay said:Dubby said:
what exactly do you mean?
and btw, meele will always remain totally unappealing as long as you cant target boy parts and miss them, as well :S
Making melee weapons that can target body parts is easy. You just use the exact same animation settings for the weapon, but give it an invisible projectile that has a maximum range equal to the melee range. Then, you CAN target limbs with melee. It's already been done, and there's a video on youtube somewhere that shows a demo of the technique.
Making melee weapons that can use the player's stats when the player attacks is also easy, but works -only- for the player. The player is a known constant "Player" that can be called just about anywhere. So all that's necessary is to see if the TARGET of the damage script is -not- the player, and if that target is within melee range of the player, and is hostile to the player. Real simple, and it works too.
I did something similar for projectiles, but it doesn't work for sneak attacks, delayed attacks, off center-attacks (lobbing projectiles), etc.
Still, I have -no- idea on how to incorporate the Perks that improve damage stats. I'm open to input on this conundrum as well, but keep in mind that damage is calculated in a very peculiar manner now. I'll try to summarize just the damage calculation here.
First, all the armor penetration, cavitation, wound channel depth, and so forth leads up to just a single number that's used by the damage calculation. It can vary as much as 0.01 up to 6.70 or more. I'll explain the other values mentioned after the formula. Here's how damage is calculated:
(Sqrt [Penetration * Cavitation]) * MaxHitPoints * LimbPercent / 100 / LimbDepth * ((LimbCondition + LimbPercent) / 125)
If the round's penetration is greater than the limb's depth, that first value becomes the {Sqrt [LimbDepth * Cavitation] } instead. The cavitation, penetration, and limbdepth values are all in inches.
The Limb Condition is just that - a number from 0 to 100 that shows how much health that limb still has. That part of the equation grants a secondary function that lowers damage to the same limb as it becomes more damaged, which prevents the "I can kill you by shooting your foot" problem.
The "Limb Percent" is a health to limb number that denotes how "critical" that body part is to the current HP of the creature. In everything but robots and insects, the head generally has over 100%. Humans have this number around 150-200. Torsos are generally around 70 or so, except for feral ghouls and super mutants where it's less.
Now that you know, think of some ideas on how to add in damage perks that make a difference.
Yazman
It Wandered In From the Wastes
WHy do you say you can't use any of the DLC's assets? Bethesda said modders are allowed to use it as long as you require people who download the mod to have the DLC content and not just incorporate the assets into the main game files, which just means you need to include the dlc content file as one of the required for booting up the game. Modders have done this before.
"I did something similar for projectiles, but it doesn't work for sneak attacks, delayed attacks, off center-attacks (lobbing projectiles), etc. "
what are all those (except sneak attacks, which i know) ?
+ you are planning on adding targetable body parts for melee, are u ? its just a must for a game with "fallout" in its name
+ what is about the misses at melee? there is still no animation for that, is there?
im not sure if i understand the crazy formula right, but if i do, then here some suggestions:
how do you realistically inflict more damage with a weapon, which has a bullet, and therefor does same damaga, no matter who fires it?
the answer is: a pro can target a spot where it hurts more! for example between the armour plates, or at a vulnerable zone like eyes etc. - makes sence also for shooting naturally-armoured creatures like monsters or robots - and thereby bypass some of the armour. which leads me to my first suggestion:
1. a "Master Sniper" perk to help you ignore some percentage of the targets armour.
best of all would be if that perk had a chance to work or not work while every shot, which would depend on how well you can target a certain body part.
for example: the perk helps you ignore 15% of the targets armour every time it kicks in, and the perk has a general chance of 75% to kick in in case you got 95% to hit a body part you are going for.
now, if you got not 95% to hit the body part, but only e.g. 65%, then the perk has simply less chance to kick in, like not 75% anymore, but 40%. why it makes sence? because if you cannot even aim the bodypart itself properly, then you probably cant aim the imaginary vulnerable part of this body part as well.
a second instance of this perk would make your chance of the perk kicking in grater, but not inflict more damage - a bullet in the eye between the armour plates is alredy in the eye enough..
2. "Living Anatomy" perk that makes you inflict an additioanal damage just against the limb condition of an organic enemy every time you shoot, referring to the same "rifle hurts every time, but a good shooter knows where it hurts more" rule. could also make this perk depend somewhat on your doctor skills. the better you Know your enemy, the more you can hurt him.
3. resulting from the previous perk, the alredy existing "Robotics Expert" could give you a bonus to crippling robots. you know how they are made, so you know how to hurt them.
4. of course you could split the perk endlessly,even up to making a separate perk for every creature there is, but i think splitting them just in "alive" and "mechanic" would be enough not to annoy everyone
- all those perks apply same well to unarmed/melee warriors, because a skilled anatomist can chop you right between the armour plates where it hurts with a ninja sword as well as just shoot you there.
- unarmed and melee might get even further extensions for the "living anatomy" perks, for example "Ninjitsu Master" , which allows you to strike vital spots in unarmed combat, and thereby cripple your enemy faster then a brainless knocking would do
what are all those (except sneak attacks, which i know) ?
+ you are planning on adding targetable body parts for melee, are u ? its just a must for a game with "fallout" in its name
+ what is about the misses at melee? there is still no animation for that, is there?
im not sure if i understand the crazy formula right, but if i do, then here some suggestions:
how do you realistically inflict more damage with a weapon, which has a bullet, and therefor does same damaga, no matter who fires it?
the answer is: a pro can target a spot where it hurts more! for example between the armour plates, or at a vulnerable zone like eyes etc. - makes sence also for shooting naturally-armoured creatures like monsters or robots - and thereby bypass some of the armour. which leads me to my first suggestion:
1. a "Master Sniper" perk to help you ignore some percentage of the targets armour.
best of all would be if that perk had a chance to work or not work while every shot, which would depend on how well you can target a certain body part.
for example: the perk helps you ignore 15% of the targets armour every time it kicks in, and the perk has a general chance of 75% to kick in in case you got 95% to hit a body part you are going for.
now, if you got not 95% to hit the body part, but only e.g. 65%, then the perk has simply less chance to kick in, like not 75% anymore, but 40%. why it makes sence? because if you cannot even aim the bodypart itself properly, then you probably cant aim the imaginary vulnerable part of this body part as well.
a second instance of this perk would make your chance of the perk kicking in grater, but not inflict more damage - a bullet in the eye between the armour plates is alredy in the eye enough..
2. "Living Anatomy" perk that makes you inflict an additioanal damage just against the limb condition of an organic enemy every time you shoot, referring to the same "rifle hurts every time, but a good shooter knows where it hurts more" rule. could also make this perk depend somewhat on your doctor skills. the better you Know your enemy, the more you can hurt him.
3. resulting from the previous perk, the alredy existing "Robotics Expert" could give you a bonus to crippling robots. you know how they are made, so you know how to hurt them.
4. of course you could split the perk endlessly,even up to making a separate perk for every creature there is, but i think splitting them just in "alive" and "mechanic" would be enough not to annoy everyone
- all those perks apply same well to unarmed/melee warriors, because a skilled anatomist can chop you right between the armour plates where it hurts with a ninja sword as well as just shoot you there.
- unarmed and melee might get even further extensions for the "living anatomy" perks, for example "Ninjitsu Master" , which allows you to strike vital spots in unarmed combat, and thereby cripple your enemy faster then a brainless knocking would do
Dubby,
It's been a good while since I checked the status on F3C. I'm really looking forward to trying it out, but I have a few questions for you. They may have been answered already, but I don't have the time right now to sift through 30+ pages.
Anyway...
#1) How true to the core Fallout rules are you adhering to? Are the original Fallout's SPECIAL related formulas restored?
#2) Will weapons/armor reflect original Fallout and Fallout 2 damage, AC, resistances, etc?
Thanks,
It's been a good while since I checked the status on F3C. I'm really looking forward to trying it out, but I have a few questions for you. They may have been answered already, but I don't have the time right now to sift through 30+ pages.
Anyway...
#1) How true to the core Fallout rules are you adhering to? Are the original Fallout's SPECIAL related formulas restored?
#2) Will weapons/armor reflect original Fallout and Fallout 2 damage, AC, resistances, etc?
Thanks,
Answer: #1) Well, not really. First, AP is handled very differently since the game isn't turn based. Second, HP is handled radically differently. Third, there's no such thing as sequence in F3. However, most of the other formulas should be (mostly) intact. I'm trying to engineer this as a step-up from the originals, rather than a step to the side.
Answer: #2) No, and this may turn off some people... but remember that penetration in the originals failed to work properly. The mathematics of the formula that were used were intrinsically flawed. The formulas in F3C are built directly from their real-world counterparts in various fields of Physics. In effect, the new formulas do a much better job than the original formulas - but are likewise that much more complex. As far as the armor stats go, you'll be looking at these:
_____ "Hardness", Abbr. = 'H'
_____ "Thickness", Abbr. = 'T'
_____ "Armor Class", Abbr. = 'AC'
_____ "Armor Rating", Abbr. = 'AR'*
_____ "Thermal Diffusivity", Abbr. = 'TD'
_____ "Photic Absorption", Abbr. = 'PA'
The last two are technical terms, as I haven't figured out an accurate layman's term for them. Hardness and Thickness are critically important for calculating armor penetration, and wound channel dynamics. Armor Class is similar to a damage threshold, in that it effects Armor Rating. AR is a weird sort of percentile that's used to gauge the effectiveness of the boundary layer of the target. For wearable armor and helmets, AR is actually the item's Condition... but for creatures who can't -wear- armor, it's an actual internal statistic. AC is the minimum number that AR can drop to. Even if your armor hits a Condition of 0%~ you can still wear that armor, and it will provide a degree of defensive capabilities equal to the AC it has, as a percentage of the other defensive values. A bullet-proof vest can have better protection versus a bullet than power armor, but the vest has a low health value, can only take a few hits, and has very low AC... but the power armor has a very high health value, can take many many hits, and has a very high AC. Shot for shot, the vest will outperform the power armor - but only for a few shots at most, after which the vest is near useless. The power armor on the other hand, will take a beating and keep on ticking. Also, the vest only covers the torso.
Hope that answers your questions. ^_^
Answer: #2) No, and this may turn off some people... but remember that penetration in the originals failed to work properly. The mathematics of the formula that were used were intrinsically flawed. The formulas in F3C are built directly from their real-world counterparts in various fields of Physics. In effect, the new formulas do a much better job than the original formulas - but are likewise that much more complex. As far as the armor stats go, you'll be looking at these:
_____ "Hardness", Abbr. = 'H'
_____ "Thickness", Abbr. = 'T'
_____ "Armor Class", Abbr. = 'AC'
_____ "Armor Rating", Abbr. = 'AR'*
_____ "Thermal Diffusivity", Abbr. = 'TD'
_____ "Photic Absorption", Abbr. = 'PA'
The last two are technical terms, as I haven't figured out an accurate layman's term for them. Hardness and Thickness are critically important for calculating armor penetration, and wound channel dynamics. Armor Class is similar to a damage threshold, in that it effects Armor Rating. AR is a weird sort of percentile that's used to gauge the effectiveness of the boundary layer of the target. For wearable armor and helmets, AR is actually the item's Condition... but for creatures who can't -wear- armor, it's an actual internal statistic. AC is the minimum number that AR can drop to. Even if your armor hits a Condition of 0%~ you can still wear that armor, and it will provide a degree of defensive capabilities equal to the AC it has, as a percentage of the other defensive values. A bullet-proof vest can have better protection versus a bullet than power armor, but the vest has a low health value, can only take a few hits, and has very low AC... but the power armor has a very high health value, can take many many hits, and has a very high AC. Shot for shot, the vest will outperform the power armor - but only for a few shots at most, after which the vest is near useless. The power armor on the other hand, will take a beating and keep on ticking. Also, the vest only covers the torso.
Hope that answers your questions. ^_^
Dubby said:
Yeah, that does! Very good technical info you passed on there. This is some really serious stuff... not just another "overhaul" mod.
I agree, some of the traditional Fallout game mechanics just won't work with this new engine. I like the direction you're taking. Real-world data goes hand in hand with FPS games, at least in my opinion.
Keep up the good work, Dubby (and the rest of the F3C team, too). What OOO did to Oblivion, I'm sure F3C will do for Fallout.... God knows it needs it... haha
hey Dubby, I have follow the instal instructions on the readme. I put the "data" there and overwrite when asked. but it appears nothing has changed on the game??
the traits after leaving the vault didn't work, I din't find any new weapons, taged skills don't work, can't use power armor, etc.
so what is wrong? any clue? since I overwrite the data folder why nothing is working?
and one extra thing: I really don't want the "Combat actions require AP to perform, run out and you better take cover until you're ready to act again" modification, this was really a bad idea (unless you allready changed this one), so... can you tellme how i take only this modification off? or is too much complicated to explain/do?
and... hãã... how much time you presume it will take for the next update? some months?
haaa, other thing: there is no mention about the patch, do I have to install him?
the traits after leaving the vault didn't work, I din't find any new weapons, taged skills don't work, can't use power armor, etc.
so what is wrong? any clue? since I overwrite the data folder why nothing is working?
and one extra thing: I really don't want the "Combat actions require AP to perform, run out and you better take cover until you're ready to act again" modification, this was really a bad idea (unless you allready changed this one), so... can you tellme how i take only this modification off? or is too much complicated to explain/do?
and... hãã... how much time you presume it will take for the next update? some months?
haaa, other thing: there is no mention about the patch, do I have to install him?
thanks men.
until now i was playing without the mod, and now with the mod i can really see that it was really a bad thing this modification with the vats and ap. so, Dubby or someone else that knows, "please mode on": how i take just this thing out off the compendium? I really want to play with this modifications, but without this one thing.
until now i was playing without the mod, and now with the mod i can really see that it was really a bad thing this modification with the vats and ap. so, Dubby or someone else that knows, "please mode on": how i take just this thing out off the compendium? I really want to play with this modifications, but without this one thing.