Fallout 3 Hands-On #6

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
Orderite
This one is a doozy. A short one from Crave.<blockquote>Every year, E3 has one game on display that's almost universally tagged as the critical favorite, despite not having the big-name pedigree of a Halo or Grand Theft Auto. Last year, it was the underwater adventure BioShock, which -- thanks to a steady drumbeat of positive press coverage--went on to sell a few million copies and become a true sleeper hit.

This year, it's Fallout 3, a post-apocalyptic RPG set in the ruins of Washington DC. The original Fallout games were PC titles from the early '90s, so the franchise can't rely on the faded memories of aging fans to sell big holiday numbers when it's released this fall. Instead, developer Bethesda has modeled the game on its previous big hit, the popular 2006 sword-and-sorcery RPG Oblivion. </blockquote>A fairly short one from the Escapist.<blockquote>One area in which Fallout 3 differs greatly from Oblivion is in the combat. Whereas Oblivion's was always a bit disappointing, Fallout 3's is far more satisfying, especially when using the VAT system. You can simply attack an enemy in real time, or you can hit the right shoulder button (on the 360, anyway) to bring up the VAT system, which pauses the action and allows you to target specific body parts on your enemy. Each use of the VAT system requires a certain number of Action Points; your total Action Point allotment is dependent on your personal agility and Perks. </blockquote>GameDaily.<blockquote>We then venture forward until we find an isolated shack with someone living inside. We go in and find an attractive blonde inside. After talking to her for a bit, we decided to play dirty and loot her house. Like anyone would react to a home invasion, the woman comes at us with a gun, so we take her out and check her house for any other loot. We didn't find much, unfortunately, and also noticed that our karma level had dropped a notch or two, which, later in the game will affect how non-player characters react to our presence.

Our time with the game ended shortly after, and for someone who plays shooters regularly, it took a little readjusting to the turn-based shootouts, which in the end, turned out to be one of the more interesting elements of the demo. We also loved the roam anywhere, do anything futuristic apocalyptic environment with a big, foreboding plot bubbling just underneath the surface. If this isn't the 'it' game of 2008, we'll be very surprised, indeed.</blockquote>A better-sized one from VGChartz.<blockquote>There's the typical set of RPG elements here, with stats and skills and abilites and a hefty inventory galore tucked away within an elaborate and rather humorous menu system. But the really cool part is the radio stations that you can tune into in different locations. In the ruined DC area (Capital Wasteland), for instance, you can listen to a propaganda broadcast from the "President", who's taken over the country, while you play the game. There was also a news broadcast, and even one from a China-based station. Some of the broadcasts appear to give you information for seeking out side quests as well. Really this was the most entertaining part of the demo, but I'm one of those people who enjoys listening to the fake talk radio stations in Grand Theft Auto, too.</blockquote>Probably the best of this bunch comes from WorthPlaying.<blockquote>On its own, Fallout 3 controls like a fairly simple FPS. The right analog stick aims your gun, right trigger fires, and left trigger allows you to steady the gun for greater accuracy. V.A.T.S. (Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System) should turn the game into something slightly more familiar to Fallout vets. Combat pauses once you activate V.A.T.S, and all of your enemies become highlighted. In this mode, you can choose to aim at specific body parts or even target the enemy's weapon; each target you select will drain points from your character's AP (Action Points) meter. After you confirm your selections, your character will instantly fire off a volley of shots targeting those specific parts. The more difficult the body part may be to hit, the lower your shot accuracy will be, so not all of the shots will hit their intended targets. For example, my first target inside the school was a Ruffian, who was running and screaming at me with a makeshift spear. A volley of V.A.T.S.-assisted shots promptly crippled his legs and one of his arms, turning him from a threat into a simple target. This use left my AP drained, but thankfully, it recovers pretty quickly. For the most part, I found that it was best to use FPS controls in areas where you have plenty of room to move and aim carefully, and V.A.T.S. in places where I needed to make my shots count or I was going to get a spear in the face.

After a brief exploration of the school, I ventured back to the comparatively brighter wasteland, and after a short trip, I encountered the game's first town. It was a small town, as these things go, but it absolutely packed to the brim with sub-plots, sadly few of which I got to explore. The most interesting of these was the Children of the Atom, a cult-slash-church that worshipped an unexploded nuclear bomb located in the center of the town. I had a few options for what I could do with these fellows, including tinkering with the bomb itself. My explosive skill wasn't high enough, though, so I didn't get to see if it was possible to set it off or simply disarm it. Beyond the many sub-plots, there were simply a ton of areas to explore in the town. I was able to venture in any house I could see, and I discovered a lot of areas that I'd want to explore if I had greater stats, such as a mysterious locked house that required a Lockpick skill substantially higher than even a 10th-level character could hope to achieve.
(...)
All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people. One unfortunate foray into the Children of the Atom's stronghold left me faced with an entire group of angry people who were out for my blood. To make matters worse, every item I took or door I opened dropped my Karma, and once the Children of the Atom got angry at me, fighting back also dropped my Karma further. It's entirely possible to play Fallout 3 as some sort of homicidal maniac, but don't expect to do so without anyone calling you on it.

For those of us of the less violent persuasion, Fallout 3 includes plenty of people to talk to. Conversations take place in a fairly simple menu-driven system, where you pick your choice and the character responds. The twist is that not all of your choices are available at all times, and certain conversation choices are only available to certain characters. Your skills will also influence the success rate of conversations; a character with high Charisma and Speech skills may be able to charm information out of a normally uptight individual, and those with a high intelligence may notice something that less clever characters don't. If you're discussing explosives, having a high Explosive skill will make it more likely that folks will believe you. Even certain perks influence your choices. The Lady Killer perk, for example, gives you a bonus for talking to female characters and also provides a couple of conversation choices that wouldn't normally be available. If you're the kind of gamer who just wants to get back to the shooting, you can ignore most of these conversation trees and focus on the smashing, but it might come back to haunt you later.</blockquote>Medium-size GamingTarget. GamingTarget confirms what Emil Pagliarulo said here, you can't target in melee in VATS.<blockquote>I switched to the baseball bat in my inventory menu and began beating him up in real-time mode and then trying VATS using melee attacks. With melee, the targeting covers an enemy's entire body, so there's no limb selection. You still have to be worried about using up Action Points (AP), which limit the number of attacks you can perform using VATS. AP auto-restores as you move in real-time, so when I killed the man and was startled by an aggressive cow, I had to do a lot of running backwards. That way, I could keep moving so the cow wouldn't trample me to death and keep increasing my AP to target her through VATS until she tipped over for the final time. </blockquote>Gamester.<blockquote>It’s also in large part an action game, almost to the point of first-person shooter. But Fallout purists, don’t be worried. As a Fallout purist myself I like the system because in addition to pure FPS it’s also very tactical thanks to a targeting system that lets you stop the action to target limbs and other body parts. It fits the atmosphere of the game very well.</blockquote>ABC News10.<blockquote>Gunplay is gratifying, particularly when using the Vault-Tech Assisted Targeting System, better known as V.A.T.S. When enemies approach, you'll hit the shoulder button. The game pauses and shows parts of an enemy's body and the percentage of a direct hit. You can then cue up shots to systematically take down Raiders or other foes.

In one fight, for example, my opponent ran down when he was severly injured. As he ran, I used V.A.T.S. to target his legs and cripple him.</blockquote>GiantRealm, calling the experience of playing Fallout 3 "visceral".<blockquote>There's been a lot of animosity bubbling around the internet about Bethesda's decision to use VATS rather than a true turn-based combat engine, and while it probably won't sit right with the most die-hard Fallout purist, VATS is an elegant system that makes combat feel more tactical than just pointing and shooting.

One more worrisome aspect of my admittedly short time playing was how much time I spent with VATS and how little I spent doing the other Fallout-y stuff, like fast-talking shop keepers, finding weird side quests and cheating hardworking people out of their money. </blockquote>
 
Brother None said:
<blockquote>
</blockquote>A better-sized one from VGChartz.<blockquote>There was also a news broadcast, and even one from a China-based station.

</blockquote>
I'm interested to see what they come up with for the Chinese story.
 
worthplaying said:
All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people.

I really hope this is some sort of mistake or a feature that won't be in the final game.

On the surface it seems like a decent idea, but it removes all of the logical thought behind the concept of personal possesions and what people will do if you mess with their stuff.

It sends up a big flag for stealth characters that says "Hey! time to sneak, because taking this thingy will make that guy over there attack me"

In Fallout, you would learn the hard way if you went diggin through somebody's shelves and pockets and opening doors you shouldn't have and if they caught you by seeing you do it (or having too low of a steal skill) you were getting attacked even if you didn't know why.

It forced a player to be perceptive, actually pay attention to what the NPCs are saying and take into account the value of something that you are effectively pilfering from them and if they are going to miss it.

this red-marking of items and locked stuff to tell you it's naughty to steal this or that, seems to really dumb down the scavenging and stealth parts of the game.

It removes a large part of the karma system's ambiguity as well.
 
All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people

Please tell me I read THIS read wrong.

If something that can be detrimental to your karma comes up, it's marked in RED?!?

That was part of the fun in FO. Certain situations made me stop, and consider my actions, to evaluate how this might affect me, and if I was willing to accept the consequence.

GD. Talk about being lead around by the nose...
 
It's rather annoying that in all these things they compare Fallout 3 to Oblivion and not the originals like they should. Only time they bring in the originals is when they bash it for "being a outdated 10 year old game"
 
All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people

Of all the things they talk about the hand holding really detracts from the game. The idea that people have to think about what they can do in a game has become passé. Can't they let you try the game without having the feeling one of Bethesda's goons is watching over your shoulder as you play.

On one of the in game shots the statue is missing from the capitol dome.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2970
 
At a guess/presumtion the doors/items may have been marked red for the review players. Having said that I really hope that it doesn't make the final game as ok you might be able to figure out in a lot of places that taking 'item' would be construed as pilfering but there will undboubtably be other bits and bobs where it's not so apparent that it'd be stealing.
Afore it slips my rapidly decaying mind, thanks for the snippets, they had some intresting bits in them.

To cap it all off, as the old adage goes 'The proof of the pudding is in the eating', aka it might look full, shiny and tasty but upon taking a bite it's boufing (disgusting), conversely it like look repellent but on tasting it might just be like a taste of perfection or even look ok and taste ok.
 
MacsenMifune said:
All this scavenging comes at a price. When exploring, you'll find certain items or doors marked in red, and if you take those items or pick those locks, your Karma will drop, and you'll end up ticking off a lot of people

Of all the things they talk about the hand holding really detracts from the game. The idea that people have to think about what they can do in a game has become passé. Can't they let you try the game without having the feeling one of Bethesda's goons is watching over your shoulder as you play.

On one of the in game shots the statue is missing from the capitol dome.
http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=2970
I would say the statue tumbled when the nukes went off.
 
AP auto-restores as you move in real-time, so when I killed the man and was startled by an aggressive cow, I had to do a lot of running backwards. That way, I could keep moving so the cow wouldn't trample me to death and keep increasing my AP to target her through VATS until she tipped over for the final time.

Does this not sit well with anyone else? Running backwards to recharge your ACTION POINTS in order to do targeted shots. Awesome. If anything, action points should, I don't know, decrease while moving. Or shooting without VATS. Or performing any sort of action.
 
The "red marker" seems like it's yet another leftover from Oblivion, where your marker (though not entire doors) would indeed turn red if the item you'd pick up/door you would open were deemed illegal.

Yet another terrible decision for Fallout. :clap:
 
As I read more of these, FO3 seems to get better and better, not the other way around. Definitely getting this game.
 
Fuck me, controllers have shoulders now?
You'll have to pardon my "faded memory", I'm an "aged" 33, my Intellivision controllers didn't have no fancy shoulders on them. shoot.

[grumpy old man mode]In my day our Atari controllers had one button...and we liked it.[/grumpy old man mode]

I haven't felt this good about being burned off by a narrowminded, cannablisitic hackocracy since I stopped reading Marvel comic books in the early 90s.
Seriously gaming is getting that bad now.

At least my old ass still has Tron: Deadly Discs in all its 16 bit glory.
 
Stubs said:
At a guess/presumtion the doors/items may have been marked red for the review players.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

As I read more of these, FO3 seems to get better and better, not the other way around. Definitely getting this game.

Dude, I know exactly what you mean. Getting your hand held and exploiting the combat system is totally awesome.
 
Partly I can understand the red-marker thing.

In most RPG's it's pretty nice to get rich, and if stealing is allowed, it's usually the preferred way to do so too, simply because its usually fast. So, the automatic impulse at first is to get your grubby hands on whatever you can get, take a look at the consequences and then save/load after you've seen what the consequence is. So, having the red icon removes this hassle. But....

I remember how in Baldur's Gate this was what I first tried. I quickly found out that people generally don't like me stealing from them so I basically switched over to another approach. I quit stealing.

What this basically means is that, for me, not having an indicator, was an actual deterrent from committing to crime, just like it should be. If the game 'runs' on common sense, and you can find this out by playing, then you don't need a damn red marker magically telling you that what you're about to do is wrong. It should be common sense that going into someone's house and picking up stuff is not what people generally like you to do.

With a marker in, you know what will happen, so there is no ambivalence as to the consequence, no grey area, even not an imaginary one. Unless you're actually roleplaying, you'll probably steal everything that isn't checked and leave everything that is checked.
 
Starwars said:
The "red marker" seems like it's yet another leftover from Oblivion, where your marker (though not entire doors) would indeed turn red if the item you'd pick up/door you would open were deemed illegal.

Oblivion really ham stringed your ability as a thief as you couldn't sell anything unless you joined the thieves guild, not that anything you stole was really worth any money or was there any real point.
 
I switched to the baseball bat in my inventory menu and began beating him up in real-time mode and then trying VATS using melee attacks. With melee, the targeting covers an enemy's entire body, so there's no limb selection.

It just dawned on me why they did this (Presumingly):
Lack of extra animations. Those slackers!

All the other reasons I've tried to imagine just don't make sense. I haven't thought about it too much, though, because originally I thought you wouldn't be able to use VATS at all for melee.

EDIT:
Partly I can understand the red-marker thing.

Yeah, I agree with your post.

They definitely shouldn't have put it in there if they wanted people to make their own decisions. But, they have a need to babysit a bunch of retards that they don't want to make upset to the point where they won't buy the next mindless adventure.

Ugh... Anyway, they should make settings for all of this hand-holding shit. A few boolean values and some artwork on a menu - that's all they need.
 
Blazerfrost said:
It's rather annoying that in all these things they compare Fallout 3 to Oblivion and not the originals like they should. Only time they bring in the originals is when they bash it for "being a outdated 10 year old game"

Well, in that way they compare it to a game it's actually a sequel to.
 
MacsenMifune said:
Starwars said:
The "red marker" seems like it's yet another leftover from Oblivion, where your marker (though not entire doors) would indeed turn red if the item you'd pick up/door you would open were deemed illegal.

Oblivion really ham stringed your ability as a thief as you couldn't sell anything unless you joined the thieves guild, not that anything you stole was really worth any money or was there any real point.

Unfortunately, being a thief and sneaking/stealing all the time made your character weak as enemies level-scaled with you (at least that was my experience for the very short time I played that awful game). I believe the rage was to be in the Assassin's Guild to make your character ungodly unbalanced and powerful.
 
Taskeen said:
Unfortunately, being a thief and sneaking/stealing all the time made your character weak as enemies level-scaled with you (at least that was my experience for the very short time I played that awful game). I believe the rage was to be in the Assassin's Guild to make your character ungodly unbalanced and powerful.

I've done the entire Dark Brotherhood quest-line (assassins, yes) and I didn't really notice a lot of overpowering stuff to my character. I did notice the ridiculous level'ing speed at times. I had a self-created character, so everything I had chosen, I was using. This meant level'ing at light-speed, without significant upgrade to my damage output. I got bored with hitting ogres 20+ times before they dropped after a while.

Anyway, the Dark Brotherhood is actually, apart from the main quest perhaps, the only reason why I'd recommend playing the game. The assassins were the only truly enjoyable unique characters, had really fun conversations with each other, the quest-line was fun, well thought-out and for the most left room open for some roleplaying. Heck, it was the only moment ever I felt like I was playing a role in oblivion. The rest of the game was just a hell of a lot of work instead of play.

I still remember the conversation snipped the Orc assassin had.

“For example, this one time, I had a contract to kill a little Nord girl at her birthday party. She asked me if I was the jester! So I said to her, "No, I am a messenger of death." You should have seen the look on her face! Ha ha ha ha! Anyway, she won't be seeing age six!”
 
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