Fallout 3 not silly

[Sander]

How was that a doge at all? I explained it exactly.

No, you didn't. You still haven't explained it.
How come, if a normal shot to the head can blind someone, then why can't you just aim for those parts of the head to blind them?

As for the quote. Here, from Briosafreak's blog

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2007/07/12/massive-e3-fallout-3-post/

Groin/Eye shots?

They figure that a crit on the eye will gib the head anwyays so probably leaving that out. Groin shot is a maybe.

That quote does *not* say that *only* eye-crits would gib the head.

These two paragraphs should be answered together. There's no visual difference between a crit and a normal hit, you say. In reality that's not true. The type of hits you are describing in your first paragraph, that don't hit a location at a straight angle (in this case the eye), would not be critical hits. A critical, by definition, would be a devastating strike, so it couldn't be a glancing blow or a graze.

Nice try. A devastating hit isn't the same as a hit at a straight angle.

But really, a ciritical hit isn't just a bullet that does more damage than another one while hitting the same location. Its a critical hit because you hit a critical area. That, in itself, does make targetting the eye kind of strange from that standpoint. The eye is a critical area of the head to hit and, pretty much by definition, a critical hit.

Ehm, yeah, so is the head.

For what its worth, I would have liked them to keep eye targeting in the game. I did enjoy aiming there in the original games. I can understand the reason for not doing it, however.

The heart, lungs, kidney's...those are among the critical areas of the torso. If you score a critical hit on a torso, you should have hit an organ. You don't just hit somebody that magically does more damage, if it didn't strike a key area. A critical on an arm should have severed ligaments neccessary for moving that arm, or blown off a hand, or something. It's not just "Oh shit! for some unknown reason that bullet hurts me more than another one!"

And a critical on the head, just hit you in the eye, or your brain, or pierce your carotid artery.

Right. So if parts around the eyes can blind someone if hit, then why can't an eye shot blind someone?

Also, if the eyes are the critical part of the head, why can't you just aim for them specifically? Wouldn't that actually make sense, since it'd do more damage?

Also, you ignored my post. I still haven't seen a quote where they say you can blind people in combat.

 

[SuAside]

I'm 28 and I still find it amusing when somebody gets hit in the groin ... providing its not me...

i repetitively hit people in the groin every weekend during Krav Maga practise. (hopefully for them they never forget their cup)

not as much amusing as it is effective.

 

[Autoduel76]

How was that a doge at all? I explained it exactly.

No, you didn't. You still haven't explained it.
How come, if a normal shot to the head can blind someone, then why can't you just aim for those parts of the head to blind them?

Yes. I explained it. You just keep ignoring it. A "normal" shot to the head CAN'T blind someone. A "critical" hit on the head, hitting the orbital lobe, can blind someone.

As I said, I wish you COULD aim there. However, why you can't, is beacause a hit in that location should ALWAYS result in a critical hit.

They figure that a crit on the eye will gib the head anwyays so probably leaving that out. Groin shot is a maybe.

That quote does *not* say that *only* eye-crits would gib the head.

That quote doesn't say that any kind of eye hit other than a crit would gib the head. I haven't seen one that does.

These two paragraphs should be answered together. There's no visual difference between a crit and a normal hit, you say. In reality that's not true. The type of hits you are describing in your first paragraph, that don't hit a location at a straight angle (in this case the eye), would not be critical hits. A critical, by definition, would be a devastating strike, so it couldn't be a glancing blow or a graze.

Nice try. A devastating hit isn't the same as a hit at a straight angle.

I didn't say it was the same thing. However, a graze, or glancing blow wouldn't be a critical hit. Also, you don't have to be at a straight angle on the eye to hit the brain. There is no real way to miss the brain (other than a very severe angled, glancing blow) with a hit through the eyeball, because of the way its sunk into your head.

But really, a ciritical hit isn't just a bullet that does more damage than another one while hitting the same location. Its a critical hit because you hit a critical area. That, in itself, does make targetting the eye kind of strange from that standpoint. The eye is a critical area of the head to hit and, pretty much by definition, a critical hit.

Ehm, yeah, so is the head.

No its not. There are non critical parts of the head. You could blow off an ear, blow a hole through a cheek, graze a chin, and the skull is thick enough to deflect glancing blows, or non-high speed projectiles. As long as you don't hit soft tissue, like the eye, its not neccessarily critical.

Right. So if parts around the eyes can blind someone if hit, then why can't an eye shot blind someone?

An eyeball shot would blind someone. The dead don't see.

Also, if the eyes are the critical part of the head, why can't you just aim for them specifically? Wouldn't that actually make sense, since it'd do more damage?

Why do you keep asking the exact same question?

Its because wouldn't just "do more damage". A direct hit would kill.

Also, you ignored my post. I still haven't seen a quote where they say you can blind people in combat.

Well, I haven't seen a direct quote for some of the things you've said here either. There were 50-odd previews about Fallout 3 in a short amount of time and I remember reading in one that critical hits could result effects such as getting knocked out and blinded. I don't specifically remember which one it was in. If it makes you feel better to assume that it isn't true, you are more than welcome to.

[/i]

 

[MrBumble]

An eyeball shot would blind someone. The dead don't see.

I assume you are talking about a human target. Apply that to a deathclaw or another big ass creature. Do you seriously think that a bullet going through one of its eyes would automatically kill it ? The answer is obviously no, but unless that creature has hard eyeballs made of chitin or whatever, odds are you could blind it.

Also ( and I'm getting tired of repeating it ), you CAN blind a HUMAN if you accidentaly push his eyeball with a KNIFE or a CROWBAR ( aka "Melee combat hurts" )

 

[Autoduel76]

I assume you are talking about a human target. Apply that to a deathclaw or another big ass creature.

Well, yes I am talking human targets. We don't know what target locations they will have for non humanoids yet. Other than atennae targetting being confirmed in the game for the mutated Ants.

 

[Sander]

Yes. I explained it. You just keep ignoring it. A "normal" shot to the head CAN'T blind someone. A "critical" hit on the head, hitting the orbital lobe, can blind someone.

As I said, I wish you COULD aim there. However, why you can't, is beacause a hit in that location should ALWAYS result in a critical hit.

Ah yes, and that's *not* what you said earlier.
I like how you try to go 'I said this all along, and it makes sense!!!!' while you actually said no such thing. This has not been your argument so far, so don't try to pretend it has.

In any case, to respond to it, you are again missing the point. A direct hit to the eyes should probably equal a critical hit always, but so should a direct head shot. So, yet again, why allow head shots and not allow eye shots? See, Fallout's system incorporates glancing blows. A non-critical eye-hit is exactly that: a glancing blow. It does damage, but not that much. The chnace of a critical, though, is a lot higher than with a normal hit.
Now the question is, why did they change this? The answer, according to them, is 'eye hits make the head go boom'. Okay, fine, but this doesn't, in any way, mesh with the blinding effect of *head* shots that you claim head shots have.

That quote doesn't say that any kind of eye hit other than a crit would gib the head. I haven't seen one that does.

Good boy. You dodge the question.
Again: show me a quote where it says that *only* eye crits gib the head. That's what you claimed.

I didn't say it was the same thing.

Liar: "The type of hits you are describing in your first paragraph, that don't hit a location at a straight angle (in this case the eye), would not be critical hits."
You claimed that anything that doesn't hit the target at a traight angle isn't a critical hit. You claimed that exactly. Do not lie by claiming that you didn't. It pisses me off.

However, a graze, or glancing blow wouldn't be a critical hit. Also, you don't have to be at a straight angle on the eye to hit the brain. There is no real way to miss the brain (other than a very severe angled, glancing blow) with a hit through the eyeball, because of the way its sunk into your head.

And nice straw man. No, you don't have to hit the eye at a straight angle to hit the brain. But here's the other consequence: hitting the eye at a non-straight angle does not mean you hit the brain, and does not mean you gib the head. You are *still* avoiding this.

No its not. There are non critical parts of the head. You could blow off an ear, blow a hole through a cheek, graze a chin, and the skull is thick enough to deflect glancing blows, or non-high speed projectiles. As long as you don't hit soft tissue, like the eye, its not neccessarily critical.

Go-go-you. You just named only grazing or glancing blows, non-critical hits by Fallout's system. In other words: hits that do 'normal' damage.
Here's a hint: there are also non-critical parts to the eye-area as well, such as the eye sockets.

An eyeball shot would blind someone. The dead don't see.

Nice strawman, and nice way to avoid the actual point. Next time, try to actually answer the point. Which was, by the way, that if a head-shot can blind someone without killing him, then why can't a (grazing) eye shot?

Why do you keep asking the exact same question?

Because you keep on failing to answer it.

Its because wouldn't just "do more damage". A direct hit would kill.

Exactly. So again I ask this exact same question that you have yet to answer: why can't you aim for a kill? Isn't the point of sniping and aiming to kill as quickly as possible in the first place?
Please try to actuallly answer a question instead of dodging it for once.

Well, I haven't seen a direct quote for some of the things you've said here either.

'Whaaa, mommy, he didn't do it either. Punish him!!!'
Seriously, what? I ask proof of a feature you claim to be in Fallout 3, and your response is 'well you made some unsubstantiated claims as well!!!'
Grow the fuck up! I asked you to verify things you claimed as fact. If you can't do so, then say so, don't go blame me for it! You fucking baby.

 

[Joe Kremlin]

My great grandfather's gun misfired and shot him in the eye during WW1. He lived. Bethesda is dumb.

Also, we won't be shooting at the eyes only for human targets.

 

[MrBumble]

My great grandfather's gun misfired and shot him in the eye during WW1. He lived. Bethesda is dumb.

Also, we won't be shooting at the eyes only for human targets.

There's also the story of Robert Violante, who was shot in the eye by the infamous David Berkowitz. He was blinded by the shot but survived.

 

[Autoduel76]

snip

This argument is completely pointless. You have ignored what I've said...You've said that I haven't been making the argument that I have been making all along. You've asked the same question in 30 different ways when I've given you the same answer over and over again.

You either are purposefully being obtuse or, for some reason, you really just don't even understand what I've said. Either way, I'm done with it.

 

[Sander]

This argument is completely pointless. You have ignored what I've said...You've said that I haven't been making the argument that I have been making all along. You've asked the same question in 30 different ways when I've given you the same answer over and over again.

You either are purposefully being obtuse or, for some reason, you really just don't even understand what I've said. Either way, I'm done with it.

And still no quote, nor an answer to my questions.
Yet again, the question is very simple: why can't you aim for the eyes, if aiming for the eyes has added value?

All you've been able to say to that is, essentially, 'Because hitting the eyes has added value!' which is, well, not an argument at all. If you're going to pretend that I'm just ignoring what you're saying, go ahead, but you're only deluding yourself.

PS: Please show me where, exactly, in this thread you've ever made the argument (outside of your second to last post) that an eye hit is always a critical hit? Your argument so far has been 'eye hits gib the head, but head shots can still blind people' (to which I still don't see why this wouldn't be the case for grazing eye shots).

 

[Autoduel76]

Yet again, the question is very simple: why can't you aim for the eyes, if aiming for the eyes has added value?

I already told you that I'm not answering this question again. Seriously, I've answered it 3 or 4 times in this thread already. If you don't get it...tough shit. I'm through answering it.

All you've been able to say to that is, essentially, 'Because hitting the eyes has added value!'

Funny, but not something I ever said.

PS: Please show me where, exactly, in this thread you've ever made the argument (outside of your second to last post) that an eye hit is always a critical hit?

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38465&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

But really, a ciritical hit isn't just a bullet that does more damage than another one while hitting the same location. Its a critical hit because you hit a critical area. That, in itself, does make targetting the eye kind of strange from that standpoint. The eye is a critical area of the head to hit and, pretty much by definition, a critical hit...

The heart, lungs, kidney's...those are among the critical areas of the torso. If you score a critical hit on a torso, you should have hit an organ. You don't just hit somebody that magically does more damage, if it didn't strike a key area. A critical on an arm should have severed ligaments neccessary for moving that arm, or blown off a hand, or something. It's not just "Oh shit! for some unknown reason that bullet hurts me more than another one!"

And a critical on the head, just hit you in the eye, or your brain, or pierce your carotid artery.

You really don't see the difference? Just think about it for a second. The eye is a soft-tissued opening to your brain. The oribital lobe has bone that can protect your brain from being hit. Hitting the orbital lobe, eye socket, and surrounding area can cause swelling that will effectively shut your eyes and impair your vision. Hitting the eyeball itself, isn't going to slow down a bullet enough to prevent it from entering into your brain.

 

[Sander]

Funny, but not something I ever said.

Hah, nicely done directly contradicting yourself. You said multiple times, as you show, that a hit to the eye always gibs the head. If a head hit does not necessarily do this (something you *also* claimed), and an eye hit does, then aiming for the eyes has *added value*.

So, yes, your response to 'Why can't you aim for the eyes, if it has added value?' *has* been 'Because it has added value!' (I'm paraphrasing).

http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38465&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

But really, a ciritical hit isn't just a bullet that does more damage than another one while hitting the same location. Its a critical hit because you hit a critical area. That, in itself, does make targetting the eye kind of strange from that standpoint. The eye is a critical area of the head to hit and, pretty much by definition, a critical hit...

The heart, lungs, kidney's...those are among the critical areas of the torso. If you score a critical hit on a torso, you should have hit an organ. You don't just hit somebody that magically does more damage, if it didn't strike a key area. A critical on an arm should have severed ligaments neccessary for moving that arm, or blown off a hand, or something. It's not just "Oh shit! for some unknown reason that bullet hurts me more than another one!"

And a critical on the head, just hit you in the eye, or your brain, or pierce your carotid artery.

You really don't see the difference? Just think about it for a second. The eye is a soft-tissued opening to your brain. The oribital lobe has bone that can protect your brain from being hit. Hitting the orbital lobe, eye socket, and surrounding area can cause swelling that will effectively shut your eyes and impair your vision. Hitting the eyeball itself, isn't going to slow down a bullet enough to prevent it from entering into your brain.

Fair enough.

 

[TheWesDude]

hey guys, remember they are not making fallout 3 for the fans or to be accurate to the franchise, they are making fallout 3 for the game devs.

thusly it will be a FPS with RPG elements that they like for the XBox and screw the rest of the world.

 

[quietfanatic]

There is a fine line when it comes to silliness in many situations, but they have obviously nuked that line, and the surrounding area.

I would not be that surprised if there is a blinding or stunning effect for certain criticals to the head. It is an obvious feature to implement even if you don't have eye shots. Have there been any hints of this anywhere? Not that I can recall unfortunately.

 

[4too]

Preemptive Nostalgia

Preemptive Nostalgia



Another mile stone in the development of Beth's FO3.

This event horizon for the ''Once And Future (a) rPG of 2008 (tm)'' qualifies for

MAJOR HYSTERICAL DEMARKATION!

Just as Messianic epoch labeling has it's B.C. and it's A.D.

FO3 dev name calling has it's B.S. and it's A.S.S.

Before Serious.

Ass-u-me Silly Serious.


Nostalgia festers in this bow tie, brown shoe, ground attenuating vacuum tube.

50's TV moralizing, the fun stops when an eye gets ALMOST! poked, and the pow-ah of Denial equally protects all contestants 'below the belt'.

Moral(e) equivalent of Eddie Haskell holding summer vacation hostage,
to sell back to the kid's a day at a time, or -- else -- every one goes back to school!

Makes The Beaver sad.

Major line in the sand lot!

""Gee Wally, remember when FO 3 was teh funnie?""



So another era ends, as we ah- wait the second coming of sliced (Wonder) bread.





4too

 

[FeelTheRads]

I mean, once you have groin shots you're approaching a level of silliness that, if you're not careful, can pervade the whole game.

So, assuming for a moment they don't do this because of dumbing down, you can read this quote two ways:

1. They think the older games were silly, although they said they're fans - which again makes them fucking liars.

2. They are not able to avoid the mentioned silliness - which makes you wonder why they got to work on this game in the first place.


These guys, Bethesda guys... can they say something that doesn't make them look like complete morons?

As for Emil... heh, Todd is short-pants now compared to him.

 

[The Duke]

Fallout 3 is not silly. Towns built around craters of undetonated nukes and collectible bobbleheads that boost stats are not silly.

I wonder how these guys can take themselves so seriously ( it's not like they acknowldge any critique ,mind you) and I'm preety sure this Hines dude is on crystal meth. A man can't naturally spout so much bullshit and have that sick yellow grim.