Fallout New Vegas the Frontier

The Dutch Ghost

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
Hello all,

I came across this news bit whole going through a Dutch news site: the announcement of a new fan made expansion mod for Fallout New Vegas called The Frontier

http://www.falloutthefrontier.com/

Now at one side I am of course interested in a new Fallout New Vegas expansion as it remains one of my current favorite games. But after looking at this I can't say it really has a Fallout vibe for me yet.
Of course the whole winter setting is a little to get used to of course so perhaps that plays a role but there is something missing that makes me think more of a war themed FPS game or Fallout 3/Fallout4 (lots of space to go through, lots of landmarks/pre war references, but barely any settlements or quests.

Being a story fag I immediately of course checked out what the story was about. At first I didn't like it that much then later realized it has a lot in common with an idea I once had for a story involving an NCR military insurrection so I guess it could work. But the surname of that general? Blackthorne? I had to look it up to see if it was a real surname and not something from an Ultima game.

And the region? The State of Washington? Last I checked the NCR had barely expanded into North California into Oregon.
And the Legion is going to go through the state of Idaho in order to invade California through Washington and Oregon? Well I am sure they are not going to see that one coming but I am reminded of a Blackadder sketch in with the Duke of Wellington (played by Stephen Fry) tells Blackadder disguised as the Prince Regent that he has stationed Nelson and his forces in Alaska in case Bonaparte's army tries to attack the British army by going through the North Pole (despite being in North Africa at the moment).

I guess if you want to get rid of a trouble general that is getting a little to popular with the common people it is wise to send him away as far as possible but me thinks this whole setup of the Legion also going all the way there (actually it is a local tribe assimilated by the Legion) does smell a bit contrived.

Ugh... and yet more vertibirds. I like Vertibirds, but what made them so special is because they were rare. It was one of those things you did not expect to find in a Post Apocalypse setting like Fallout were modern industry seemed nothing more than a fairy tale, only to be surprised by actually seeing vertibirds manned by people in Advanced Power Armor. This is like the past coming to life for a regular wastelander who might only have heard about these things in bedtime stories and old books.
I also can live with the idea that NCR had some, they assaulted Navarro after all, and to the winner goes the spoils of war.
I just had the idea that these would be all NCR has (and perhaps some fixed up planes), and that they would be difficult to keep up as they require rare components that can not be manufactured in what goes for a factory now because of how complex they are, and fuel of course.

Now the East Coast BOS is pumping them out by the dozens and wasteland mercenaries can actually steal and fly them, and prototypes linger around the wasteland (though I guess that could be in tune with Operation Anchorage in which a vertibird appeared, though it was mentioned that that simulation was based on General Constatine's exaggerations and overdone imagination as even the programmers wrote that some stuff in the scenario never actually happened)

The gameplay also has me a bit in doubt when I read stuff like "Aerial dogfights and airborne assaults". I have to assume the Legion now also has flying machines as otherwise there would not be much in the dogfight department.

Sorry for all the dissing about this mod, especially as I have never made one myself despite always talking about wanting to do one. These people have done a lot more than I have to this moment.

But still, a lot of this sounds like... well Bethesda would do. Yet another war scenario in which the focus is on a conflict between two military nations, barely any other factions that have their own ideologies, history, and goals in life separate from the NCR and Legion.
This doesn't sound like an RPG setting in which go out and explore the world while trying to complete a quest that motivates go to start traveling in the first place. There doesn't seem to be any curiosity and mystery in it other than yet more Pre War stuff with an emphasis on weapons.

I am going to play this but I really hope there is more to it than just the war scenario.

I find it frustrating that I can not exactly describe what nags me to think that doesn't feel that Fallout.
 
Recently I started playing through the New Vegas Bounties series of mods and my God, it really showed me how much modders can accomplish when they put their axe to the grind! The whole thing is simply amazing. I have faith in this project too. Give them time, it may shape up into something wonderful yet. New Vegas Bounties I was just okay, the voice acting was subpar, the missions were literally all references to movies, but as the series went on it just got better and better, and by the end of it III was curled up in a little ball wondering what I'd done.

Though I will agree the whole vertibird thing is quite a problem. Unless they explain how they managed to make a new type of Vertibird that runs off microfusion cells like the Highwayman from Fallout 2, it's an issue. I don't know why the fuck none of the games just say that. Instead we're supposed to believe in FO4 the BOS has an army of Vertibirds that run off gasoline which doesn't exist anymore? Yeah, that's a major problem.

EDIT: I honestly really like it when mods take ideas and plots from Van Buren, since a lot of Van Buren is already established and fits into the lore well. Beyond Boulder Dome, based off the Boulder Dome that was going to be in Van Buren, is one of my favorite expansion mods. Maybe someone should point these guys towards Van Buren if they need ideas? There's tons of untapped mod potential there. Beyond Boulder Dome is really the only one I've seen tap into VB's rich storyline.

EDIT 2: Just watched the trailer for myself. I remember seeing this trailer a while back but it mainly focused on that one vertibird scene. Wow, this mod has come a long way. Outside of them having an army of vertibirds being quite lorebreaking though, are the NCR using tanks and army vehicles also lorebreaking? If I remember correctly Tactics had working tanks and whatnot with the BOS but Tactics is also considered only partially canon, so idk if that counts.
 
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I haven't played bounties yet, I might give it a try. I will probably skip Bounties I then, I don't mind pop culture references such as movies but designers in the past already made the mistake to think that that was what Fallout is about.

Just watch the trailer for Frontier, holy shades of Fallout 4. If this is an action spin off of Fallout I can understand but it still feels very un Fallout like. Fleets of NCR vertibirds, tank battalion (though I like the tanks' retro looks), some sort of super mutant in Power Armor which I am convinced is based on a design some modders made for Frank Horrigan in Fallout New Vegas, and a space station complete with an arcade sequence in which you have to shoot down asteroids.
Now I love the concept of BOMB001 in Van Buren but I honestly hope the writers of this mod have thought out the explanation for the space station and how the player gets there. (and I honestly hope that this isn't the place another remnant of the Enclave retreated to and is now planning to wipe the surface of the Earth clean. Old relic space station with missiles, fine. Enclave running the place? Gimme a break)
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
But still, a lot of this sounds like... well Bethesda would do. Yet another war scenario in which the focus is on a conflict between two military nations, barely any other factions that have their own ideologies, history, and goals in life separate from the NCR and Legion.
This doesn't sound like an RPG setting in which go out and explore the world while trying to complete a quest that motivates go to start traveling in the first place. There doesn't seem to be any curiosity and mystery in it other than yet more Pre War stuff with an emphasis on weapons.

I am going to play this but I really hope there is more to it than just the war scenario.

I find it frustrating that I can not exactly describe what nags me to think that doesn't feel that Fallout.
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Just my opinion but I think you may be approaching this the wrong way. What I mean by that is for me mods never compliment the game, they compliment my character build. For example as mentioned above New Vegas Bounties, I have this mod active only if I'm playing a combat centered build like a gunslinger or a merc. If I'm doing an intelligence build I stay away from combat heavy mods and use mods like Autumn Leaves. Judging from the trailer I would say this mod is best suited for an NCR centered playthrough or someone that cares a lot about the war. I will be playing this when it releases for sure, but I expect heavy combat and if there is more then awesome. In a game like FNV that has so many paths and options outside of combat a few combat heavy mods never bothered me, it's when the game makes that it's only option that I'm bothered by it.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
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You shouldn't skip New Vegas Bounties I. The whole series plays out kinda like Mass Effect, what you do in one part will affect certain scenarios in the next part. Especially when it comes to Part III. Besides, Part I is honestly pretty short, especially if you've discovered a lot of places already. Not much of a walk. It's not the best but honestly it has its moments and it's kinda necessary to understand certain parts of II and III. Oh, and The Inheritance as well. The Inheritance is sort of a New Vegas Bounties 2.5 I suppose.

Yeah, I have to agree with what you said. Did they actually mention BOMB001 in the development for Frontier? That sounds like a shitstorm. Yeah this mod does kinda reek of FO4 but I'm willing to give it a chance as long as it's willing to explain why they have tanks, why they have vertibirds, etc.
 
I remember seeing it ages ago, and thinking more or less the same thing regarding the lore. I'm impressed by how far the effects have come, and though I've always been of the opinion that vehicles should be rare if even included in Fallout games, I have to admit I've always wanted to be able to pilot a vertibird.

On the whole, this mod gives me a very Fallout Tactics vibe, what with the snow-covered setting, pilotable vehicles and military focus; the entrance to Vault 6 in particular reminded me of Vault 0. I'm sure they'll probably add a bunch of real-world weapons just like Tactics did, too.

It's been mentioned in one of the posts above mine, but this mod seems to take heavy inspirations from Bethesda's take on the series. Whilst I disapprove of its bending of the world's history with little explanation ("Legion is Legion") for the sake of its own gameplay, I don't think mods are obligated to abide to lore like the games are; besides which, the website also states that the mod has "several side-quests with difficult moral choices", which assuming the moral choices go beyond "shoot this guy or that guy", implies the possibility of different playstyles and builds being viable, already making it a better RPG than Fallout 4.

It also reminds me of a suspiciously similar idea I had for a Fallout tabletop RPG setting, which makes it intriguing for personal reasons.

Overall, it'll probably be worth playing for its own sake, rather than its connections to New Vegas, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Oh? I thought Archimedes II was a satellite and not a space station. Still neatly made by modders though.

OMG, a vertibird spaceship. I can understand using an existing model rather than having to make something yourself, but at least use the rocket models from Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas.
This thing is way to much like the dropship from Aliens.

Yes it is nitpicking, but come on, even for the setting this is ridiculous.
 
Looks quite silly and not much in keeping with the feel of New Vegas, but it's a mod, and I never expect much from mods in terms of consistency with the base game. It is technically impressive. To be honest the video conjures up memories of Operation Anchorage for me, which I did not enjoy at all, so I'll probably pass on this.
 
I get your reasoning Spacemunky, but so many mods are very combat oriented that it gives me the idea that people don't care for quests and puzzles with non combat solutions, or story telling.
When I see a mod announcement like this I always think "What for factions and people are we going to meet and what for situations are we going to encounter, and what are the various solutions like?"

I don't hate the shooting in Fallout New Vegas as it is evened out with other elements. But when I see a mod like this I fear it will have little 'food for thought' despite on the site there being announcement of difficult decisions.
I am mostly jaded because of Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 which I think is to much a source of inspiration to Fallout gamers and modders these days.

But my mistake is probably wanting this to be something with Obsidian's game design philosophies instead of treating it for what it is itself.
 
That is true but I still think it is much more likely that Archimedes II is an laser cannon installed in a satellite like the Ion laser from Command and Conquer, rather than attached to any massive orbital installation as the Chinese would probably have shot that down during the War.

BTW, that is a good question I just came up with. How long can a satellite or space station maintain orbit once all fuel for course and orbital corrections has been exhausted?
I know the International Space station had to use the rockets on the Russian part to restore its orbit from time to time.
 
Not sure. The satellite could be running on nuclear power, which would probably run for a long long while considering in the FO universe uranium basically became oil.

And the orbital corrections still working could be because of their advanced tech. The world of FO's pre war stuff is much more advanced than ours.
 
I'm with Dutch Ghost on this one. It's frustrating seeing so much time and energy put into a colossal mod just for it to look and play like Call of Duty (target practice segment? Really?)

Hopefully modders will be able to make use of the resources at least, because it does look gorgeous.
 
Earth said:
I'm with Dutch Ghost on this one. It's frustrating seeing so much time and energy put into a colossal mod just for it to look like Call of Duty.

Hopefully modders will be able to make use of the resources at least, because it does look gorgeous.
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I don't know. I'll probably just watch AlChestBreach play it when it's out, as my craptop would shit it's pants if I tried playing NV with The Frontier. Sadly it can't because it has a virus currently.
I'm still hoping that it won't be too combat oriented. While I know that you'll have to find the Legion I'm hoping you can at least make different decisions, like attacking Legion Raiding parties and making a decision to kill them all, capture them all, or release them with nothing but the clothes on their backs.
 
They do all this amazing scripting for this mod and I'm just thinking, you couldn't make scripts for the base game itself, to make it feel a bit more dynamic?

I'd love to see these guys redesign the Battle of Hoover Dam. They'd probably get some real tactics and strategy fixed into it.
 
Knight In Leather Armor said:
Not sure. The satellite could be running on nuclear power, which would probably run for a long long while considering in the FO universe uranium basically became oil.

And the orbital corrections still working could be because of their advanced tech. The world of FO's pre war stuff is much more advanced than ours.
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Uranium on its own is not thruster fuel, it would still require something like water to work with to produce thrust.
Otherwise it would have to be some kind of nuclear electrical engine and they don't produce that much thrust (it takes time for such a rocket to speed up).

As for the technology levels in the Fallout world, it differs per era. They got a head on us on technology like nuclear fusion and power armor, but they are quite behind on miniaturizing of electronics (with the exception of the Big Empty perhaps), and circuitry, and technologies that rely on these.
 
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