fallout prep

bob_the_rambler

Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?
So we all love the games, the survival, the dark humor and the ultimate choice between good and bad karma. But how many of us that post here on this blog take the idea of a fallout life style as a possible reality? How many of us take precautions in real life to ensure that we survive an M.A.D. senerio? Have you thought about what items you have that can be bartered for food and water.....for ammo....what about those fallouters that live in countries where firearms are limited> do you have a spear handy in your closet? Do you know what areas are going to be high priority targets for any given enemy? do you know where to meet with family when the shit hits the fan? simple measures like keeping a full tank of gas in your car......a survival pack behind the seat. A logical mind will help you alot in a fallout world senerio. So what have been your thoughts about this kind of thing?
 
bob_the_rambler said:
But how many of us that post here on this blog

What?

bob_the_rambler said:
So what have been your thoughts about this kind of thing?

None beyond the fact that it would be stupid to think about this kind of thing.
 
you make survivalists sound like idiots, Bob. in todays world, nuclear exchange is highly unlikely. you're better off planning for other disasters (natural or otherwise).

anyhow, atm i haven't taken any real measures yet, but further down the road i intend to keep it in the back of my mind. the location of my house will probably keep in mind possible rising of sea (and river)-level, congestion, etc.

i also intend on buying longer term foodstuff. i only drive a motorcycle, so it's better if i loan a car or SUV for big shopping once in a while. why not buy a load of canned/jar-ed beans, corn etc at once? they'd probably even give you a discount. and at the same time, you have some stocks to fall back on if something goes wrong.

i also intend to buy some militarygrade sealed surplus ammo and burry it in the yard. might sound foolish, but overhere i can only store so much ammo (which isnt that much really) before i need to get a special license for storage. once again, the more you buy, the cheaper it gets. so not much loss.

furthermore, if i ever build a house, it'll probably have geothermal heating (not with hotsprings and shit, but the canadian style thingy with pipes underground). sure it costs more, but you're not fully reliant on gas, oil or electricity to heat anymore.

since my country is pretty much hopelessly urbanised, i've got nowhere to run. so no real use for a BoB (bug out bag) or a 'retreat'. if shit hits the fan, i'll probably need to stand my ground and hope for the best.
 
Been there, done that, am equipped to the teeth.

However, with the likelyhood of nuclear disaster befalling us being next to nil, I am more concerned with the fallout of chemical weapons... considering that I'm a stone's throw from a chemical weapons storage depot... that has, at least twice in the last 9 years, had leaks. VX and mustard gas are not nice things.

I also live in a natural disaster prone area, and have that covered as well.

Nukes aren't a big issue... I'm more concerned about whether the eggs in my fridge are healthy for me to eat or not.
 
I think its going to happen, maybe not today, maybe not next decade but I don't have that much faith in humanity. So I prepare, albeit slowly. Prepare for natural disaster first(generally its the same story)

Have an evacuation plan in hand. Go find a map and do it, it takes 10 minutes to do a simple one.

First start with 3 day kits of food, you just keep in your car, your office, where ever. Takes about the size of a 1 liter milk carton (or just buy one). Good also to keep bottles of water around. I usually use MREs for main meals, but keep a few snacks in there. They make you happy, and unhappy people die. ^,,^

Next Build a mobile pack enough for 5 days of supplies. I use my hiking bag when it's not in use. First Aid kit, food for yourself for 5 days and water(I recommend having filters also because water is heavy) Toiletries, tent, matches, lighters. Poncho, warm cloths(depending on where you are) map and compass of your area (its not hard to learn how to use them, but learn before hand or you are fucked), 2 knife (I prefer a large knife like the Kabar because its usefulness around camp), knife sharpener. Sleeping gear, flashlights(I have 2, I recommend a flashlight that can be charged by shaking with LED bulbs)

Basically prepare for a 5 day hike out of your home town. I recommend getting a current scout hand book. Seriously I'm not joking, lots of practical knowledge about the out doors. Also some of the merit badge stuff is pretty good to teach you stuff. Like wilderness survival, archery, camping, ect. (I don't know what other countries have, I've read the American stuff.

Then prepare a vehicle born version of the above for 2 or 3 weeks on top of your 5 day kit. Your gas wont last that long, but it will get you to an aid station and you can survive off yourself before you resort to depleting aid supplies already being depleted by morons who didn't prepare.

Keep about a 6 month regular food and water storage. IE caned goods and nonperishables. Don't forget to rotate this stuff continually, use it up but always be sure to keep it stocked at the end of the month.

Then a one year storage full of stuff that will keep you alive and also keep for a few years before you have to rotate it.

Guns are cool, but I wont be surviving with them. Bows are practical -> learn them and shoot them regularly. I'd bet that most countries don't regulate heavily on bows, and even then they are pretty easy to make and hide.

Bow strings can be made with heavy string and ski wax. Bows can be made out of just about any straight piece of stiff and springy material. (wood cannot have knots in it as that will cause weak points and then you're bow is fubar) Same goes for your arrow shafts. Worry about arrowheads last.

Guns, I personally have one ready, more likely an old pumpy or hinged 12 gauge. Maybe a bolt action or black powder rifle, maybe a loose revolver.. Bad choices are high maintenance weapons. AR's are first on my list. Again if you are going to have a gun, know how to use it safely, you shoot yourself or someone you love it is YOUR FAULT. Use it a lot, go shooting. Guns are nether friend or foe, they are a tool, and in the hands of a master a tool is a wonderful thing. Know how to take care of your weapon. Clean it and keep it firing.

Basically you should first know safety, then know your weapon and how to take care of it, then lastly buy a box of ammo and shoot a lot.

Keep in mind, you aren't a hero, you aren't invincible. Don't go looking to use your weapon, use it ONLY as a last resort.

-----------------------NBC preparedness

There are a lot of resources at your disposal, biggest one being the Internet! I suggest checking out the Civil defense website.

Here is something to keep in mind while you are looking for gear. Buy it new. Usually the first mistake is buying stuff from your local army surplus. See that mask in my signature? Its from the 1960s/70s and it was used up until recently when it was replaced. I know its still in use by my local national guard unit. Its a good mask with modern filters. I DO NOT TRUST IT TO SAVE MY LIFE BECAUSE IT WONT. Why? because I paid 50 dollars for it at Uncle Sam's Surplus. Buy gear from places that sell MODERN equipment. Lets pretend you are looking to buy a gas mask. It should have been designed in the last 10 years, and I've never seen a gas mask that will save a life that was under 150 USD. You should know exactly how to use it. A gas mask can kill you if you don't know what you are doing. So you've bought your new M40 military gas mask(my gas mask for my NBC gear.). Hey cool, now have some one tell you how to use it and practice putting it on so you know how to do it in your sleep. Or worse, for real.

Sum up, spend several weeks learning about the equipment before you get it. You don't need to get it all at once, that will leave you broke and starving. Your biggest resource in any situation is knowledge.

YOU will be the only one to blame if you die because you don't know what you are doing.
 
Problem with most survivalists is they expect to be in their bunker when the bombs drop. With current ICBM's it is probable there will be little or no warning for most people. ICBM's have a flight time of ~25 min's, less for submarines parked off your coast. I'm regularly more than 30 min's from my house, and I'm sure a lot of people are, factor in congested roads and jammed up choke points caused by panic and your screwed.

Sure there would be a warming up period if it was a conventional attack, e.g. Cuban missile crisis, but if it drags on as long as that did (or longer) how long are you going to sit in your hole, skip work, and drink your own recycled pish? In today's capitalist world, the clocks can't afford to stop every time things look iffy (and won't).

Personally I'm more concerned about dying due to someone's negligence, or my own stupidity than nuclear weapons.

My 'survival' gear consists of some butane gas bottles, a torch, matches, a bottle of scotch, a fire extinguisher, and most importantly some rope. Never forget the rope! Spending thousands for home-made bunkers and supplies imo is bordering on the insane, your better off splashing it out on living life to the full now. Life after a nuclear war is going to be unbelievably shit whether you survive or not. Your ability to adapt and improvise would be more important than any plan you had to download, or read up on in Redneck monthly.
 
you didnt even bother to read the thread before making such wild claims, right Nim82?

as said: death by ICBM exchange is probably about as likely as death by alien invasion...

as for 'expecting to be in their bunkers', fuck no. that's what BoB's are for. you obviously don't know much about survivalists so stop preaching about things you don't know anything about?
 
I have always been of the opinion that Fallout was way too optimistic in its appraisal on how long it would take man to begin rebuilding his society and reclaim the wastelands that was his former home.

Below are my reasons why I think Fallout is too optimistic.

1. Most survivors would be country folk, not known for their technical acumen, survival yes, technological knowledge no.

2. Lack of medical care and medicines. After the bombs go off, the manufacture of medicine and the training of doctors would grind to a halt. Even if most of the cities were not touched, they would tear themselves apart as they rioted and killed each other for what medicines, food and clean water was left. Then once that ran out, like a two legged host of locusts, they would hit the countryside. Once there, how many city folk know how to hunt or fish? much less how to build a shelter to protect themselves from the elements.

Then all these refugees from the cites have to urinate and excrete somewhere. All this waste would build up, and the you have outbreaks of cholera and other diseases. Modern man has come to rely on medicines to cure him of disease, and in the process has weakened his own immune system. All those so called 'conquered' diseases would reappear and would be even more lethal as the survivors would have no way to combat it with a weakened immune system.

Then all those bodies begin to pile up and decompose, other more deadly diseases carried by the vermin attracted to those rotting corpses would begin to spread, accelerating the death toll in a snowball rolling down hill effect. I firmly believe after a nuclear war 95% of the human species would be dead from the exchanges and it's aftermath, athough only 15 to 20 Percent of the deaths would be from the exchange itself, and the rest from the resulting breakdown of man's infrastructure.

3. Keeping the 95% death toll that would leave out of say 450 million Americans about 2.75 million alive. Now remember this number would be spread across the entire continent in small groups, not clustered together in one spot.

Now lets go to the thing that would keep us alive as a species, procreation, the infant mortality rate from disease, mutations and just the lack of medical care would be about 35 to 40% or higher. Add in the death rate of mother's dying in childbirth of about 15 to 20%. Now lets add in the death rate from cancer and other radiation induced melanomas. Then add in the 'normal' death rate for accidents and such in a post apoc world. Keep in mind no more doctors or medicines to heal even the slightest of infections. So in this type of situation, even the smallest cut could eventually lead to death. Life in the wastelands is not easy and it is not looking good for the home team.

4. Agriculture, or the lack of. Let's talk about the radioactive isotopes Strontium 90 and Cesium 143. Both by themselves are not the worst of the isotopes released in a nuclear blast, BUT they have interesting properties that should concern us about agriculture. They both love to bind themselves to the nitrogen in the soil. And as you all know, plants get their nitrogen from the soil. So anything grown in that soil will have both of these carcinogens in it's tissue.

Now let's look at how this affects agriculture. First and foremost is that ANY plants grown in that soil will be radioactive and kill it's consumer over time. Both of those isotopes have a relatively short half life compared to some of the more nastier isotopes given off in a nuclear blast, only about 200 years. A relatively short time period as radioactive isotopes go. That means for 200 years, NO farming will be done in that soil, period, unless you want to kill everyone that consumes that plant material.

As you also know, plants are the bottom of the food chain, and WILL be consumed by the wildlife and so on up the food chain. Now you are asking, what does that mean? Well it means humanity would have to abandon the areas that had fallout and head for areas that were passed by or missed. Abandoning most of the fertile and former living spaces for areas that could at least support scratch farming at the subsistence level. Nature would reclaim it dominance in the areas abandoned by man. And as we can see around Chernobyl, the plant and wild life is flourishing in the areas we had to leave.

This level of farming does not allow for any trade what so ever.

All these point I have raised are the reasons why in my opinion, man would not even begin to be able to expand till more fertile areas could be reclaimed once the strontium and cesium irradiated soil became usable once again. And without farming you are a hunter-gatherer nomadic people, not known for their technical expertise.

Survival and not education, or even teaching your progeny to read, would be the overwhelming and ONLY thing on your mind. Where your next meal or drink of water would come from would be more important than trying to learn how to read.

Hell, in the scenario I have described, there would be a good chance mankind would become extinct, not expand, because of the high mortality rates of infants and mothers. A truly sad state of affairs.

And if we did expand once again, I truly believe it would be centuries, not decades before we even began to try.




Cheers, Thorgrimm
 
luckily for us, nuclear exchange is pretty unlikely at this point. ;)

anyhow, a nice little statistic i've got to add (i bet i picked it up here at NMA: if you want a shortterm survival for your progeny, you need at least 50 breeding individuals (so that excludes kids and elders).

if however there is NO inflow of new genes at all, you need a population of 500 breeding individuals, unless you want to be faced with a bunch of degenerate morons with webbed feet in 10 generations time.
 
SuAside said:
luckily for us, nuclear exchange is pretty unlikely at this point. ;)

anyhow, a nice little statistic i've got to add (i bet i picked it up here at NMA: if you want a shortterm survival for your progeny, you need at least 50 breeding individuals (so that excludes kids and elders).

if however there is NO inflow of new genes at all, you need a population of 500 breeding individuals, unless you want to be faced with a bunch of degenerate morons with webbed feet in 10 generations time.


Sua, good points. :D

Off Topic, you get a chance to look at those docs yet? :D




Cheers, Þórgrímr
 
SuAside said:
luckily for us, nuclear exchange is pretty unlikely at this point. ;)

anyhow, a nice little statistic i've got to add (i bet i picked it up here at NMA: if you want a shortterm survival for your progeny, you need at least 50 breeding individuals (so that excludes kids and elders).

if however there is NO inflow of new genes at all, you need a population of 500 breeding individuals, unless you want to be faced with a bunch of degenerate morons with webbed feet in 10 generations time.

I think I've read somewhere that you need seventy completely unrelated people for repopulation (without further... "input"), but for the life of me I can't find where...
 
Seventy unrelated or six hundred individuals from the same closed community, according to my bio-anthropology prof.

I also cannot completely agree with Thorgrim's scenario. After Hiroshima, the first thing the remaining police force did was to protect and enforce order at the operational hospitals (I think there were two still working).

Also, the assumption that country folk are not tech savvy is insulting. All of my chemistry professors live in rural areas. Most of the chem students also live at least 30 minutes away from the city, myself included. While these are chemists, not engineers, I still feel like we could help rebuild society, if we needed to (assuming that this highly unlikely event occurred and any of us survived)...
 
enkidu said:
Seventy unrelated or six hundred individuals from the same closed community, according to my bio-anthropology prof.

I also cannot completely agree with Thorgrim's scenario. After Hiroshima, the first thing the remaining police force did was to protect and enforce order at the operational hospitals (I think there were two still working).

Also, the assumption that country folk are not tech savvy is insulting. All of my chemistry professors live in rural areas. Most of the chem students also live at least 30 minutes away from the city, myself included. While these are chemists, not engineers, I still feel like we could help rebuild society, if we needed to (assuming that this highly unlikely event occurred and any of us survived)...

Yeah The Japanese only got hit by two nukes, and not that big either. And if not for American food and medical intervention, the Japanese casualties would have been far worse. One misperception you are operating under is the idea that the nukes used on Japan were all encompassing, they are toys compared to what is in the arsenals of the nuclear powers of today. So using them as a statistical guide is like using the casualty rate from the Boer war in calculating the casualty potential in modern conventional war.

I have lived in the country for most of my 44 years. Sure they would survive, but how many country folk know how to engineer a dam? How about a proper roadnet? How many know how to culture penicillin?

Do you see what I am driving at? They have the technical acumen for agriculture and its application, and given time once the strontium and cesium have left the soil can be a basis for a future society. But could not, in and of themselves, re-create a lost society because they would be too busy keeping their small close-knit community fed.

In history it was not till mankind had enough excess food production could time be spent on the esoteric, like new technologies beyond food production. Why should that be any different in a post apoc society?

Insulting or not, fact is fact, beyond food production and its applications country folk do not have the technical acumen to live beyond the communal level of society.

And I know good and well Joe farmer is not going to be teaching his sons how to plot the orbital pathways of the planets once society has broken down, he is going to be teaching him how to farm the land, and not with writing either, by experience. :D




Cheers, Þórgrímr
 
I know that the bombs used on Japan were nothing compared in modern NBCs; however, my point was not that hospitals were still around but rather that medicine will be the most valued and therefore protected trait. Meaning that medical knowledge would not be completely lost, as many people would fight to maintain it (i.e. enslave the doctor!).

Furthermore, I honestly believe that most farmers know how to build a dam, at least were I live, because it is a necessity to maintain one to grow productive crops. I also was trying to illustrate that not everyone that lives in the country are “Farmer Joes.” But I do agree that making antibiotics would be a huge roadblock in recreating society.

Your discussion on the birth of society is well-accepted but we are talking about rebirth. Picking up the fragments and reassembling is a lot easier then pure creation. Besides specialty skills developed during agrarian times were not esoteric; they increased the productive of necessities. Your right lessons on useless information like astronomy would disappear for awhile, but use and creation of radios, metallurgy, textiles, transportation devices, and many forms other auxiliary knowledge would be reconstructed faster because of there accessibility and contributions to settled survival.

Finally, your gave a lecture on history of societies birth and then claimed that farmers would not teach with written language. Please, check your facts, even the earliest farming communities used some form of writing (although I will concede the first complete writing system was cuneiform developed 3000BC which is preceded by Neolithic era).

Overall, I am not disagreeing with you, I just feel like you are exaggerating a bit. But I guess there is only one way to find out….
 
Not all knowledge will be lost, not everyone is medicine dependent, and most everyone would not live past 30.

I think society will be similar to the dark ages. But I don't feel like expanding on that rather broad statement.

Those "city slickers" will have to learn how to produce food, or they will raid it from those that do (and they will probably die since most of the gun nuts are not in cities.)

I read somewhere that there are ways to decontaminate and secure and area for farming. I'll try and find that to say exactly what it said.
 
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