Fallout with Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky on YouTube

Paladin Hank said:
Somehow I find it hard to believe you didn't struggle in the least, especially at the beginning of the game
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i struggled alright but not with understanding UI and mechanics and playing along with them. i still think they were really simple compared to most rpgs of that era although i think that my very first character died in the glow and i didn't have a saveslot where i could prevent death because i was a dumbass

nkchan16 said:
so was its graphics, in fact it was one of the best looking 2D RPGs at the time.
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i think F1 is still one of the best looking games out there because the artists simply knew what they were doing
 
Paladin Hank said:
- Also the steam account Tim's playing on has Fallout 1,3 4, 4vr and Shelter. What about Fallout 2 and New Vegas? You know, the best games in the franchise? Why would anyone not have them?
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He's already played NV on console and he probably doesn't have much of an interest in Fallout 2 being involved with its development and all
 
No, that account possibly belongs to a Millenial, a Beth fanboy, who started Fallout with 3 and bought 1 either just for this event or just wanted to see what it was all about. I'm not that naive to think that he could possibly have 2 and NV on GOG etc.
 
nkchan16 said:
No, that account possibly belongs to a Millenial, a Beth fanboy, who started Fallout with 3 and bought 1 either just for this event or just wanted to see what it was all about. I'm not that naive to think that he could possibly have 2 and NV on GOG etc.
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Good hypothesis.
mef said:
although i think that my very first character died in the glow and i didn't have a saveslot where i could prevent death because i was a dumbass
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haha I think we all died at the glow the first time we played the game ;p
mef said:
i think F1 is still one of the best looking games out there because the artists simply knew what they were doing
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I wholeheartedly agree. No other games have captivated me visually as much as Fallout. Except planescape mayhap.
nkchan16 said:
Fallout's UI was pretty decent for its time, so was its graphics, in fact it was one of the best looking 2D RPGs at the time. The controls are also just fine. You can play the game with your mouse alone and if you want to speed things up a bit, it has full set of keyboard shortcuts.
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I would go as far to say that Fallout's UI and mechanics are more than just fine; they're really excellent in my opinion. Also I love the fact that you can just play the game only with the mouse. I remember not too long ago playing Fallout on my laptop during a long road trip, the mouse unsteadily posed on my knee, and struggling pretty hard at it. Good times.
 
Not a very popular opinion perhaps but I have a strong suspicion or feeling that if Tim Cain would come back to Fallout now that any game he would work on would be more similar to Fallout 3 and 4, rather than Fallout 1. And especially not anything like Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas (Or Van Buren)

Tim Cain may have started the series but he is not a genius with a flawless vision, Fallout is the result of ideas from many people.

I am not trying to dis the guy but like some other posters have also suggested before, some us tend to deify Tim Cain because of Fallout 1.

Even if our favorite developers and designers would work on a new Fallout game, we should always be cautious with our optimism.
I for example no longer see the current Obsidian capable of making another entry like Fallout New Vegas.
 
mef said:
especially after he praised environmental story-telling in fallout 3 and gave example of a skeleton in a bathtub :lol:
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Yeah that doesn't fill me with confidence to be honest.
If anything I found Bethesda's atmospheric story telling quickly going from okay/tolerable to incredibly stupid. (haha we dressed up a cockroach)
 
I remember a very old interview with someone from Bethesda (Todd maybe) saying they wanted to get away from the nonsense of FO2 and get closer as what FO1 was.

But then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I get the appeal and fascination behind the whole "environmental storytelling" bullcrap but it needs to be accompanied with a strong narrative, or else it just falls flat. For me its like a small little bonus. Good environments are cool and all but if there's nothing backing it up there's no point.
 
Paladin Hank said:
I get the appeal and fascination behind the whole "environmental storytelling" bullcrap but it needs to be accompanied with a strong narrative, or else it just falls flat. For me its like a small little bonus. Good environments are cool and all but if there's nothing backing it up there's no point.
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Yeah. After a while it's clear that the story being told is just: "A designer threw some assets together The End".
 
mef said:
i think F1 is still one of the best looking games out there because the artists simply knew what they were doing
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Agreed. Graphic fidelity isn't always the same as making the graphics you have work well. I've seen some awesome looking games from post-2010 that looked nearly pre-2005 in terms of fidelity. Actually nailing the colors and feeling of the game visually can do so much despite not being 4K and looking semi-realistic.

A lot of older games and indie games show this from time to time.
 
Paladin Hank said:
Maybe it isn't when you have the manual at hand, but its nearly impossible to complete the game for the first time without looking for answers online. Especially if Fallout is the first isometric rpg you play. This game does not hold your hand. I remember struggling as hell when I first started playing the game, and I nearly gave up, like many other people have. I think its Fallout's extreme difficulty that kept bringing me back to it. For me the extreme harshness of the game's mechanics and UI reflected the harshness of the world it was depicting. I felt like I was there, struggling to survive in an unforgiving post-nuclear wasteland. Alone, without anyone to guide me, comfort me throughout my journey.
I never felt more immersed in any piece of fiction than in Fallout.
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I disagree with you, I played F2 when it came out (and F1 after) and never had to look up anything online even once and it was my first isometric RPG too, in fact my first RPG period (my brother pushed me to give it a shot). I got frustrated only one time when I was too dumb to find Renesco in New Reno to complete a Broken Hill Quest in order to make Marcus my companion but that's it. And mind you I played on the highest difficulty settings so did my brother and his friends, none of us ever struggled. UI isn't suppose to make things more difficult, but make complex and difficult things self-explanatory and simple and I belive the design team achieved this on every level even up to the short keys. Name me another RPG you can play with your mouse only while your other hand doesn't has to do anything, that is fucking brilliant.
 
Guess I'm the only one who struggled haha. Anyways I know the games by heart now so no matter. I just like to reminisce back to the days I used to struggle at Fallout. It feels like it was so long ago, even though it wasn't even a year ago. Fallout was my gateway to roleplaying games, and I'll never forget the experience I had with it. Especially getting to Shady Sands for the first time. That soundtrack gives me chills down my spine to this day.
Also I'm pretty sure you can play all Infinity Engine games without a mouse. I know you can't in Arcanum, because you need to use the escape key to go the menu (lel).
 
I watched the entire thing and it was fun, but at times also really painful to watch, particularly the way they fumble through the game's interface and mechanics.

Particularly sad was that they were unable to activate the command /context menu, which comes up by holding the left mouse button when in the command cursor mode. When the game came out I was in awe of this feature and I found it very intuitive once you get used to it back then. Another example is that they were unable to understand how sneaking works when always run is enabled (you have to hold shift and click to move so that you don't run and cancel sneak).

In terms of gameplay, so much unnecessary damage was taken and so many action points were wasted. Basically, all they did in combat was that they stood there. If you have 3 action points left after you shoot something, you can use them to either move away from your melee opponent, or you can switch to your fists/knife to dish out another attack. This is the whole point of turn based combat - to make maximum use of your APs! Honestly, they just played it in combat almost just like you would play Fallout 3 - just another shooter.

Overall it was still very fun to watch, but the concerns that I noted above make me worry that if they can't even understand how their own games work, then we can forget about anything coming out in the future that is not super dumbed down.
 
Rogue505 said:
Particularly sad was that they were unable to activate the command /context menu, which comes up by holding the left mouse button when in the command cursor mode. When the game came out I was in awe of this feature and I found it very intuitive once you get used to it back then. Another example is that they were unable to understand how sneaking works when always run is enabled (you have to hold shift and click to move so that you don't run and cancel sneak).
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Yeah, I was annoyed that they couldn't remember to just hold shift to run. Or they could've just turned up the combat speed, since they seemed to be feeling impatient, and that would've made enemy movement faster, too. I didn't watch the whole thing, so maybe they did later on.
 
I'm just pissed they played as a dumb character, something even they realised was a mistake later on, because for 2 hours you just watch them slowly kill rats, instead of engaging in conversations with npcs and talking about the behind the scenes of the game.
 
I think a lot of people take for granted what is 'intuitive' to them. There's nothing intuitive about computers to someone who has never interacted with one. That's why older generations often can't wrap their head around browser tabs. If someone doesn't have an example of something that baffles them, not because it's difficult but because of their own idiosyncrasies then self-awareness is lacking.
 
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