FOOL developer quotes and court case update
- Thread starter WorstUsernameEver
- Start date
Do you propose the new theory that Herve did not cheat, swindle and cut wool off kittens to make shirts?
The proof is there, although now its some 6+ years old.
A brief summary of things you can go hunting for, things I was there to witness.
Spending workers compensation insurance on a race car (the Texas Superbird).
His brother being appointed liquidator of Titus, and the auction proceeds going into interplay coffers to fund Majorem.
The adventure with glutton creeper games.
How he came 24 hours from being forced into involuntary bankruptcy rather than pay court mandated penalties for not paying his employees.
The wisdom of firing his talent and letting them go to work for his competitors.
Deluding himself into thinking Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Baulder's gate were dissimilar enough they would sell at the same time.
With nary a penny in the bank, switching Interplay's brand from PC games to console.
Thinking it was fine to postpone products until after the xmas season.
Overhearing he wanted somebody to "cook the books" for him.
Retroactively converting salary employees to wage with no written nor prior notice.
The entire controversy with Beth's lawyers going to bat for Atari lawsuits in order to stave of lawsuits by (former) employees.
Oh, hell, just go looking for the all lawsuits he racked up, they will point a nice portrait of that stupid french frog.
I wrote this 6 years back, might offer some insight.
http://www.itsuckstobejoe.com/interplay.asp
A brief summary of things you can go hunting for, things I was there to witness.
Spending workers compensation insurance on a race car (the Texas Superbird).
His brother being appointed liquidator of Titus, and the auction proceeds going into interplay coffers to fund Majorem.
The adventure with glutton creeper games.
How he came 24 hours from being forced into involuntary bankruptcy rather than pay court mandated penalties for not paying his employees.
The wisdom of firing his talent and letting them go to work for his competitors.
Deluding himself into thinking Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel and Baulder's gate were dissimilar enough they would sell at the same time.
With nary a penny in the bank, switching Interplay's brand from PC games to console.
Thinking it was fine to postpone products until after the xmas season.
Overhearing he wanted somebody to "cook the books" for him.
Retroactively converting salary employees to wage with no written nor prior notice.
The entire controversy with Beth's lawyers going to bat for Atari lawsuits in order to stave of lawsuits by (former) employees.
Oh, hell, just go looking for the all lawsuits he racked up, they will point a nice portrait of that stupid french frog.
I wrote this 6 years back, might offer some insight.
http://www.itsuckstobejoe.com/interplay.asp
Results
Well, it is hard to argue with results. When Herve took over Interplay, they were 120 million dollars in debt. he sold the Hunter IP for 15 million, Shiny entertainment for 30 million, cut costs, etc. Sure hindsight is 20/20. Interplay was in a tough situation when he took over, not a lot of wiggle room. he had to make some tough decisions, and there was not a lot of choice with how to pay employees when Interplay ran out of money. Vivendi really screwed Interplay by refusing to pay them right when Interplay needed it most. Not much choice there. Herve had to take them to court to pay and that shot the whole holiday season and resulted in Brotherhood of Steel being released with half a team on it.
Plus, I was impressed with Herve's professionalism in the face of vary nasty attacks from that Corith character who made things very personal, nasty, and belligerent.
Interplay has now relaunched and is nearly debt free. they have multiple games coming out and the possibility of a massive MMORPG with a rabid audience. their overhead is low, and I personally am betting on Interplay making a turn around. There is a lot of hidden value in Interplay with their name recognition and still valuable IP's. A lot of possiblities are still there. Not so sure I would characterize what Herve did as failure. Interplay has rebooted debt free, without having to seek bankruptcy protection. I don't know many CEO's who have made such a dramatic turn around without seeking bankruptcy protection. Plus, not many who could sucker people into paying 15 million for a very mediocre Hunter license.
Well, it is hard to argue with results. When Herve took over Interplay, they were 120 million dollars in debt. he sold the Hunter IP for 15 million, Shiny entertainment for 30 million, cut costs, etc. Sure hindsight is 20/20. Interplay was in a tough situation when he took over, not a lot of wiggle room. he had to make some tough decisions, and there was not a lot of choice with how to pay employees when Interplay ran out of money. Vivendi really screwed Interplay by refusing to pay them right when Interplay needed it most. Not much choice there. Herve had to take them to court to pay and that shot the whole holiday season and resulted in Brotherhood of Steel being released with half a team on it.
Plus, I was impressed with Herve's professionalism in the face of vary nasty attacks from that Corith character who made things very personal, nasty, and belligerent.
Interplay has now relaunched and is nearly debt free. they have multiple games coming out and the possibility of a massive MMORPG with a rabid audience. their overhead is low, and I personally am betting on Interplay making a turn around. There is a lot of hidden value in Interplay with their name recognition and still valuable IP's. A lot of possiblities are still there. Not so sure I would characterize what Herve did as failure. Interplay has rebooted debt free, without having to seek bankruptcy protection. I don't know many CEO's who have made such a dramatic turn around without seeking bankruptcy protection. Plus, not many who could sucker people into paying 15 million for a very mediocre Hunter license.
one other point
Interplay was able to retain many of their key IP's during their restructuring phase. The IP's are the true value of Interplay. Heck, if Herve needed, he could sell Earthworm Jim for 10 million or more and probably Descent for close to as much (these IP's are way more valuable then Hunter the Reckoning), but Herve realizes the key importance of holding onto as many IP's as possible.
Trex rumble was made with 2 employees, Eric Caen and one other guy, and the game has garnered very good reviews. most review sites have said that the game is a few AI glitches away from greatness. Not bad for such low overhead and 2 people making the game. Interplay now has a new IP that they can exploit in future sequels, and Interplay will likely have greater resources from here on out.
Interplay was able to retain many of their key IP's during their restructuring phase. The IP's are the true value of Interplay. Heck, if Herve needed, he could sell Earthworm Jim for 10 million or more and probably Descent for close to as much (these IP's are way more valuable then Hunter the Reckoning), but Herve realizes the key importance of holding onto as many IP's as possible.
Trex rumble was made with 2 employees, Eric Caen and one other guy, and the game has garnered very good reviews. most review sites have said that the game is a few AI glitches away from greatness. Not bad for such low overhead and 2 people making the game. Interplay now has a new IP that they can exploit in future sequels, and Interplay will likely have greater resources from here on out.
Re: Results
Interplay investors and Interplay ex-employees. Only on NMA will you see such wildly diverse opinions being chewed out. Somehow I can't help but feel neither side has the right of it.
"That Corith character"?
That said, we give Corith a lot of leeway because he has genuine reason to be vindictive. Otherwise, I do wish users in general would lay off slinging insults at guys like Herve Caen or Pete Hines. It accomplishes nothing, and it is worthwhile to realize these guys do read these threads every now and again, and like em or not they're still people.
I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Not really worth moderating anyway.
Interplay investors and Interplay ex-employees. Only on NMA will you see such wildly diverse opinions being chewed out. Somehow I can't help but feel neither side has the right of it.
troybilt said:
"That Corith character"?
That said, we give Corith a lot of leeway because he has genuine reason to be vindictive. Otherwise, I do wish users in general would lay off slinging insults at guys like Herve Caen or Pete Hines. It accomplishes nothing, and it is worthwhile to realize these guys do read these threads every now and again, and like em or not they're still people.
I dunno. Maybe it's just me. Not really worth moderating anyway.
Ausir said:
They owned and sold the publishing rights, which is what Troybilt means. Frith, Ausir, can you get more asinine in your corrections?
That sale is indeed a head-scratcher/impressive. I wonder if Vivendi is done paying for it yet. It wasn't a lump sum payment, I don't think Interplay ever specified the installment plan.
Corith said:
Not sure how this can be searched for. How do you know the money was from the WCI and not his own? CEO's generally make good money.
I don't think this is against the rules, and Majorem is from 2004 is it not? Titus was liquidated in 2005/2006, maybe even after that. A bankruptcy judge in either the States or France (although I'm not 100% familiar with either laws, more familiar with American bankruptcy than French) would have had to sign off on that, wouldn't he?
Something to keep in mind is that it's still an on going legal matter. We'll found out in a few weeks anyway [hopefully].
As I previously stated, the mess was not his alone. He did make some odd decisions in hindsight but the issues had been going on for nearly a decade before that. Long before Titus or Herve were in a position to do anything.
Firing or laying off?
Wouldn't it have hurt you and other employees more anyway if a no compete clause was added?
I don't know why this was done to be honest, but I'd assume the Sierra issue may have been partly to blame?
The console market was on the rise in that era (and still is), the PC market was a mixed bag. Betting Interplay's future entirely on the PC would have been a mistake. It wasn't until the popularity of digital distribution increased did the market see a rise again in terms of profits.
There are plenty of PC only publishers today who are making a killing due to the various distribution models. None are the size that Interplay once was. Should Interplay have forgotten the PC market entierly? No, and I don't think there is anything to show that such things were actually going to happen. They were simply following a trend if you will.
I think the BOS post above might answer this.
Not sure about this one either, you overhead this personally?
I don't know enough about this process to comment. It could be one of those things that is legally right but morally wrong if you will.
The Atari lawsuit was settled by Herve, at the beginning perhaps Bethesda pitched in but with no money at hand I don't see how it's an issue. If anything, it's in Herve's favors if he was able to negotiate such a deal with Bethesda.
troybilt said:
I wouldn't bank everything on the MMO. Assuming it ever releases, what happens if it fails? Will Interplay be big enough at that point to survive?
And I believe the IP they sold was Galleon? It had talent and promise behind it, didn't do very well from what I remember.
orionquest
First time out of the vault
I still can't believe that Corith was ,is and still continues to harp about money that was owed to him that he didn't receive until forcing an involuntary bankruptcy on Herve.
Talk about rancid/sour grapes fermented into a toxic wine.
All this and he eventually got paid.
Imagine what would happen if he never got paid.
I once worked for a company that lost a contract to a competitor when that competitor underbid it by 50% on a contract renewal and forced me and my coworkers to go to work on the renewed contract or be out of a job.
This made me lose all my stock options halfway before vesting. The company was not public yet. They eventually went public, tripled in price and were recently bought out.
If anyone should have more to gripe about than corith, it should be me.
And to make matters worse, I was still in debt back then and the stock options payout would have dwarfed my debt payment and allowed me to pay cash for a muscle car too!
The funny thing is the total sum that was unjustly taken from me and never paid back is greater than the total sum owed to Corith and most of his former Interplay coworkers!
Did I let a catastrophe like that stop me?
No. I eventually got laid off from that shitty new company anyways(they not only cut the muscle, they cut the bone and tendons)
Do I regret it?
No! I went on to bigger and better things and besides, they were the main reason for my lower back giving out and turning into a serious injury within 1.5 years of winning the 50% underbid contract due to the ridiculous amount of overwork that I was subjected to that I rarely had time to even take lunch most days.
What Herve did( no matter how slimy he's behaved) is chump change compared to the kind of crap that goes on in the corporate world.
Look at what EA was doing and still might be at their Sweatshop programming offices( 120+ hr work weeks anyone?)
You can't trust most management for being anything more than slimy carnal cretins that work people like rented mules before discarding them.
It's in their nature.
They're like politicians. If Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The only thing that is more tragic than that is to overthrow the corrupt powers and to become the next corrupt power.
So Corith, I don't want to hear any more of your whining. It's been 6 years. Post something new or something or move on. I realize some people won't let you move on and keep bringing up the past but that's their problem.
With that kind of stuck attitude you can never move on and accomplish anything in life.
Don't let bringing the Involuntary Bankruptcy against Herve be your greatest achievement in life! is all I'm saying.
Back to Interplay: Shiny ( with lucrative Matrix franchise) was sold for 57 million.
The Hunter Franchise was sold for 15 mil off the success of the first game.
Galleon was dumped for 1 million.
And Herve and his brother finally listened to me and let Titus die to stop siphoning all the money from Interplay to Titus( through a subsidiary European publisher called Avallon).
As much as I don't like Intel, their CEO once said this: "Only the paranoid survive"
Bethesda wanting a Jury to decide an intricate Patent Law case is absurd to say the least.
An expert Judge is needed for that. That is why you go to Court.
This isn't a family court case or a murder case to try people in front of their peers.
This is absurdity to want clueless middle aged jurors or even fanbois to want to decide this messy contract!
So I go back to the only reason for wanting it: It's easier to buy the Jury!
Herve, Bethesda, EA, Intel, etc.......
Almost all major positions of power on this planet are infiltrated by scum or people who eventually succumb to becoming scum.
This is not only killing the game industry but everything else.
The first edition of Gordon Gekko is loose on this planet in a reality show called Attack of the SUITS.
Why do you think the bad guys in MATRIX wore suits?
Talk about rancid/sour grapes fermented into a toxic wine.
All this and he eventually got paid.
Imagine what would happen if he never got paid.
I once worked for a company that lost a contract to a competitor when that competitor underbid it by 50% on a contract renewal and forced me and my coworkers to go to work on the renewed contract or be out of a job.
This made me lose all my stock options halfway before vesting. The company was not public yet. They eventually went public, tripled in price and were recently bought out.
If anyone should have more to gripe about than corith, it should be me.
And to make matters worse, I was still in debt back then and the stock options payout would have dwarfed my debt payment and allowed me to pay cash for a muscle car too!
The funny thing is the total sum that was unjustly taken from me and never paid back is greater than the total sum owed to Corith and most of his former Interplay coworkers!
Did I let a catastrophe like that stop me?
No. I eventually got laid off from that shitty new company anyways(they not only cut the muscle, they cut the bone and tendons)
Do I regret it?
No! I went on to bigger and better things and besides, they were the main reason for my lower back giving out and turning into a serious injury within 1.5 years of winning the 50% underbid contract due to the ridiculous amount of overwork that I was subjected to that I rarely had time to even take lunch most days.
What Herve did( no matter how slimy he's behaved) is chump change compared to the kind of crap that goes on in the corporate world.
Look at what EA was doing and still might be at their Sweatshop programming offices( 120+ hr work weeks anyone?)
You can't trust most management for being anything more than slimy carnal cretins that work people like rented mules before discarding them.
It's in their nature.
They're like politicians. If Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
The only thing that is more tragic than that is to overthrow the corrupt powers and to become the next corrupt power.
So Corith, I don't want to hear any more of your whining. It's been 6 years. Post something new or something or move on. I realize some people won't let you move on and keep bringing up the past but that's their problem.
With that kind of stuck attitude you can never move on and accomplish anything in life.
Don't let bringing the Involuntary Bankruptcy against Herve be your greatest achievement in life! is all I'm saying.
Back to Interplay: Shiny ( with lucrative Matrix franchise) was sold for 57 million.
The Hunter Franchise was sold for 15 mil off the success of the first game.
Galleon was dumped for 1 million.
And Herve and his brother finally listened to me and let Titus die to stop siphoning all the money from Interplay to Titus( through a subsidiary European publisher called Avallon).
As much as I don't like Intel, their CEO once said this: "Only the paranoid survive"
Bethesda wanting a Jury to decide an intricate Patent Law case is absurd to say the least.
An expert Judge is needed for that. That is why you go to Court.
This isn't a family court case or a murder case to try people in front of their peers.
This is absurdity to want clueless middle aged jurors or even fanbois to want to decide this messy contract!
So I go back to the only reason for wanting it: It's easier to buy the Jury!
Herve, Bethesda, EA, Intel, etc.......
Almost all major positions of power on this planet are infiltrated by scum or people who eventually succumb to becoming scum.
This is not only killing the game industry but everything else.
The first edition of Gordon Gekko is loose on this planet in a reality show called Attack of the SUITS.
Why do you think the bad guys in MATRIX wore suits?
memetics
☢ Mysterious Stranger ☢
Having been screwed out of 7.5 months of pay from a software company that kept trying to pull itself out of the quicksand (and failed), I can understand completely when people retain a grudge. It's hard not to when you know what went on behind the scenes. Our CEO, too, shorted everyone (employees, IRS, state Labor and Industries and other taxes, licensors of software that was integrated into our product, banks, other investors, ...) in a desperate bid to keep the company afloat long enough for that big investment or big contract to save the day. It never came, and we all were left holding the bag.
I chose to stay on so long (despite the increasing delays in paydays) because we had a good product that I believed in, and we had a sharp development team. Unfortunately, the company eventually went under the quicksand. I'm just glad I finally cut my losses, pulled myself onto shore, and moved on. I could harbor more of a grudge, I suppose, but I had to shrug it off. Staying so long accumulating back pay was an investment decision (my time) that didn't pay off, and when I couldn't afford to donate my time anymore, I got out. I don't really hold a grudge anymore because I decided the cost in terms of stress wasn't worth it.
I'm sure it's probably not quite the same as what happened at Interplay, particularly since we were really just a start-up the whole time, but I can certainly sympathize with employees who get screwed out of pay and jobs, and employers who genuinely try their best to keep the company afloat. It's always a major stressor all around when you're in that gray zone between not enough money and just enough. Sucks.
-m
I chose to stay on so long (despite the increasing delays in paydays) because we had a good product that I believed in, and we had a sharp development team. Unfortunately, the company eventually went under the quicksand. I'm just glad I finally cut my losses, pulled myself onto shore, and moved on. I could harbor more of a grudge, I suppose, but I had to shrug it off. Staying so long accumulating back pay was an investment decision (my time) that didn't pay off, and when I couldn't afford to donate my time anymore, I got out. I don't really hold a grudge anymore because I decided the cost in terms of stress wasn't worth it.
I'm sure it's probably not quite the same as what happened at Interplay, particularly since we were really just a start-up the whole time, but I can certainly sympathize with employees who get screwed out of pay and jobs, and employers who genuinely try their best to keep the company afloat. It's always a major stressor all around when you're in that gray zone between not enough money and just enough. Sucks.
-m
Wow, since when did NMA get overrun with Fry lemmings from Raging bull? Regardless, don't believe your almighty master, he's been proven wrong so many times it isn't funny.
Don't even believe me. Do the research for yourself. It is there, in court filings, in first hand accounts (although some might not talk to you). Assuming they are still active, and you can read french, the french investors the Cean boys cheated might have something to say.
Arrogant scum like Herve always bank on people never bothering to check into the past.
His track record speaks for itself.
From an old post on this board (amazing what searching can actually accomplish, huh)
Herve was person or entity setup as "liquidateur amiable" and was in charge of the liquidation process, no doubt due to an unaware French bureaucrat. The funds from the liquidation didn't go where they were "supposed to". Since there was corporate relationship between the two companies (owning each others stock) it seems POSSIBLE that, on paper, Interplay appeared, at the time, to be a major creditor of Titus. My point was not to point out the breaking of French law, but to point out the bad business choice Herve made with the money.
Instead of paying down debt to improve the investment desirability, Herve, foolishly beloved that Ballerium would be the answer to his money owes. Anybody, any gamer, could have told him that Ballerium would not be a success. No offense to the hard working people of Ballerium, but the game was not competitive with the current market, looked very dated.
Needless to say, the French investors are/were pretty steamed.
http://www.boursorama.com/forum/file_messages.phtml?symbole=1rPIUS
Since I got paid, I'd put all this out of my mind, so I'm a little fuzzy,but a quick search on this board refreshed the specific details.
Beth gave to him in 2 million installments, and all of it went to pay off lawsuits - that was part of the Beth contract. He had to clear up his legal issues with their money.
In fact, he owed Bioware more than 2 million, and they wanted all of it, which he didn't have and Beth wouldn't give him. The beth deal was on the verge of collapse, when Beth's lawyers appeared in court and Promised Bioware THEY would pay them direct - not Herve.
Don't even believe me. Do the research for yourself. It is there, in court filings, in first hand accounts (although some might not talk to you). Assuming they are still active, and you can read french, the french investors the Cean boys cheated might have something to say.
Arrogant scum like Herve always bank on people never bothering to check into the past.
His track record speaks for itself.
From an old post on this board (amazing what searching can actually accomplish, huh)
Herve was person or entity setup as "liquidateur amiable" and was in charge of the liquidation process, no doubt due to an unaware French bureaucrat. The funds from the liquidation didn't go where they were "supposed to". Since there was corporate relationship between the two companies (owning each others stock) it seems POSSIBLE that, on paper, Interplay appeared, at the time, to be a major creditor of Titus. My point was not to point out the breaking of French law, but to point out the bad business choice Herve made with the money.
Instead of paying down debt to improve the investment desirability, Herve, foolishly beloved that Ballerium would be the answer to his money owes. Anybody, any gamer, could have told him that Ballerium would not be a success. No offense to the hard working people of Ballerium, but the game was not competitive with the current market, looked very dated.
Needless to say, the French investors are/were pretty steamed.
http://www.boursorama.com/forum/file_messages.phtml?symbole=1rPIUS
Since I got paid, I'd put all this out of my mind, so I'm a little fuzzy,but a quick search on this board refreshed the specific details.
Beth gave to him in 2 million installments, and all of it went to pay off lawsuits - that was part of the Beth contract. He had to clear up his legal issues with their money.
In fact, he owed Bioware more than 2 million, and they wanted all of it, which he didn't have and Beth wouldn't give him. The beth deal was on the verge of collapse, when Beth's lawyers appeared in court and Promised Bioware THEY would pay them direct - not Herve.
Sorry for the late reply,
"Fry lemmings from Raging bull", wtf? Anyway,
Lets get something straight here, I'm not discounting your experiences, stories, etc. For all I know, they could have some validity to them. Infact, I sympathize with your situation, you managed to work your way up the corporate ladder and finally had a chance to live out your dream job. Unfortunately, due to circumstances largely out of your control this didn't happen, and without a shipped title to your name or years of experience you would have had trouble getting a Producer role from square one. I too have been put in similar situations
That being said, companies in bankruptcy (since most of your post references Titus) get more leeway than those not in bankruptcy. In America at least, not sure about France but I assume the core concepts are mostly the same everywhere. You need to consider this when looking at a lot of the post "shut down" stuff.
Veteran investors/groups do their homework before investing. Perhaps some didn't but others did, but to say they all didn't is kinda ignorant.
Perhaps if you only focus on the negative, once you look at the bigger picture you'll see it can go many ways. Herve built Titus into a publishing giant that employed quite a number of people. Titus made several successful acquisitions (including Interplay), gained investments, etc. At the same time, decisions like the Fallout: BoS release thing even without hindsight seem pretty bad.
This is why I think the fate of Interplay in its "restart" period will be very telling.
RE: Does French/American law call this bad? That is the question, the corporate world does plenty which is "morally" wrong but ok in every other regard.
Ballerium didn't look that bad, IIRC it was a community funded MMO? RTSMMO's are pretty popular in Asia and a good way to curb traditional piracy for a title.
Company of Heroes Online for instance was created since COH piracy levels were pretty high. Instead of playing around with extreme forms of DRM which will be cracked anyway, they essentially released the game for free but added premiums to the game.
How much money was made from the Titus liquidation? I doubt it was the millions one could have hoped for given going rates for items on sale during a liquidation.
I'm having trouble understanding some of the issues with those forum posts. The investors want reimbursement for what they lost in Titus, is that even possible? Generally, don't you just need to cut your losses?
If those claims about the employees looking for lost wages are true than I can see some validity but Interplay is currently paying back wages are they not?
In bankruptcy there are usually two groups of people who have to be paid, preferential/secured and unsecured creditors. The secured creditors are the ones who get paid first or have more money to spread among themselves. Unsecured creditors get paid last and might not see a good return on their investments if one at all IIRC.
Investors who buy stock are usually unsecured unless the two parties (investor/company) have a separate agreement. When a company is about to declare bankruptcy you generally have a group of people who buy cheap stock (since it's mostly getting sold at that point) hoping for a big payout if the bankruptcy proceedings go in their favor (and sometimes it does). Whether this happened to Titus, I don't know.
When it comes to wages and a bankrupt company, wouldn't they be unsecured claims? Meaning, they'll get something if the company can drum up the fund but they could end up with nothing or less than what they should have been paid.
Going by your post you linked to previously, this might not apply to your situation since Interplay never declared bankruptcy.
I'm not the best source for this stuff but perhaps the investors you mentioned can explain it better than I.
A struggling businessman negotiates the survival of his company, is that good or bad? Of course you can say, "well why is the business struggling in the first place?" but as previously stated above, it was nearly a decade in the making and not entirely a single persons fault.
I could be wrong with some of this stuff, I'm not claiming supreme knowledge nor do I have all the facts (I'm sure very few do).
Corith said:
"Fry lemmings from Raging bull", wtf? Anyway,
Lets get something straight here, I'm not discounting your experiences, stories, etc. For all I know, they could have some validity to them. Infact, I sympathize with your situation, you managed to work your way up the corporate ladder and finally had a chance to live out your dream job. Unfortunately, due to circumstances largely out of your control this didn't happen, and without a shipped title to your name or years of experience you would have had trouble getting a Producer role from square one. I too have been put in similar situations
That being said, companies in bankruptcy (since most of your post references Titus) get more leeway than those not in bankruptcy. In America at least, not sure about France but I assume the core concepts are mostly the same everywhere. You need to consider this when looking at a lot of the post "shut down" stuff.
Veteran investors/groups do their homework before investing. Perhaps some didn't but others did, but to say they all didn't is kinda ignorant.
Perhaps if you only focus on the negative, once you look at the bigger picture you'll see it can go many ways. Herve built Titus into a publishing giant that employed quite a number of people. Titus made several successful acquisitions (including Interplay), gained investments, etc. At the same time, decisions like the Fallout: BoS release thing even without hindsight seem pretty bad.
This is why I think the fate of Interplay in its "restart" period will be very telling.
RE: Does French/American law call this bad? That is the question, the corporate world does plenty which is "morally" wrong but ok in every other regard.
Ballerium didn't look that bad, IIRC it was a community funded MMO? RTSMMO's are pretty popular in Asia and a good way to curb traditional piracy for a title.
Company of Heroes Online for instance was created since COH piracy levels were pretty high. Instead of playing around with extreme forms of DRM which will be cracked anyway, they essentially released the game for free but added premiums to the game.
How much money was made from the Titus liquidation? I doubt it was the millions one could have hoped for given going rates for items on sale during a liquidation.
I'm having trouble understanding some of the issues with those forum posts. The investors want reimbursement for what they lost in Titus, is that even possible? Generally, don't you just need to cut your losses?
If those claims about the employees looking for lost wages are true than I can see some validity but Interplay is currently paying back wages are they not?
In bankruptcy there are usually two groups of people who have to be paid, preferential/secured and unsecured creditors. The secured creditors are the ones who get paid first or have more money to spread among themselves. Unsecured creditors get paid last and might not see a good return on their investments if one at all IIRC.
Investors who buy stock are usually unsecured unless the two parties (investor/company) have a separate agreement. When a company is about to declare bankruptcy you generally have a group of people who buy cheap stock (since it's mostly getting sold at that point) hoping for a big payout if the bankruptcy proceedings go in their favor (and sometimes it does). Whether this happened to Titus, I don't know.
When it comes to wages and a bankrupt company, wouldn't they be unsecured claims? Meaning, they'll get something if the company can drum up the fund but they could end up with nothing or less than what they should have been paid.
Going by your post you linked to previously, this might not apply to your situation since Interplay never declared bankruptcy.
I'm not the best source for this stuff but perhaps the investors you mentioned can explain it better than I.
A struggling businessman negotiates the survival of his company, is that good or bad? Of course you can say, "well why is the business struggling in the first place?" but as previously stated above, it was nearly a decade in the making and not entirely a single persons fault.
I could be wrong with some of this stuff, I'm not claiming supreme knowledge nor do I have all the facts (I'm sure very few do).
Really? Have you? Seems not.Elven6 said:
Beth was told Herve would screw them, try to weasel out the strict contract. Just like he has to EVERYBODY. Ever wonder why he had such trouble getting investors? Have looked at the clauses of his Beth contract? Seeing anything odd? Oh, wait, I bet you haven't read the contract have you?
They looked at his record. My comment was to lemmings like you who think Herve is a shining bastion of goodness and never both to look behind the curtain.
Get off your lazy arse and go to Santa Ana, CA. Those lost wages battles are now a matter of public record. 'Twas more than I who filed. And, thanks to Beth, even those that didn't file, still got their lost wages.Elven6 said:
Did he now? Are you 100% sure HE built Titus into a publishing giant? Again, you might want to do a little bit more reading before you spout off with a statement like that.Elven6 said:
Compared to what? Atari's Adventure? History doesn't seem to be your strong suit, but try real hard to look at the other titles coming out that same year. Since you seam to have trouble with dates, you want 2005, not 2000.Elven6 said:
English not your primary language, or just short a few brain cells?Elven6 said:
Remember, smoking shredded milk cartons clouds your thinking.
I'll make it real simple for you.
Herve has all the business skills of can of tuna. He swindles everybody, breaks deals, lies, cheats. Yes, I'm sure lots of CEO do these things, but he is so bad at hiding them and covering them up, he gets exposed time and time again.
Then perhaps you could stop claiming your opinion as fact until you do a little bit more reading?Elven6 said:
Such a noble frog is he.Elven6 said:
yes, yes you are.Elven6 said:
Then pipe down, do some reading, and let adults speak.Elven6 said:
Actually, quite a lot of us do.Elven6 said:
I'm sorry Elven6, but I suspect you are other than a simple poster with 21 posts. With the vast amounts of data on Herve on this site alone, your posts are just too clownish to be believed at face value. Perhaps raging bull would be more to your liking. They are die-hard Herve fanbois over there.
It seems the real Corith has revealed himself.
Why do you think I am an investor?
I have read the original contract and yes the rules were pretty strict and some of them were perhaps attainable. But did you miss the point where the only alternative was bankruptcy? Even if Interplay loses the Fallout franchise, they are still in a far better financial position today than they were in 2004-6.
Without knowing the specifics behind investor pitches it's difficult to know. But if I were an investor (which I'm not anything close to) I wouldn't invest huge sums (in the double or triple digits) solely due to the condition Interplay was in. They didn't have internal studios, development teams, etc. The costs of getting everything started, building initial tech, etc could easily begin to chew through that. Essentially, it wouldn't just be an investment to get an MMO developed but to get Interplay restarted as well.
Even now, I think there are things that Interplay could do to help the company overall with sales and such that they haven't done yet.
I never claimed Herve was a "shining bastion", I've been saying hes made good and bad decisions, you claim he has only made bad decisions and was the single force in bringing down Interplay and various affiliated companies.
You're right, that's just down the street from me anyway! If only there was some sort of an online venue one could go to for interaction with people all over the world. Kind of like a forum where people could spread knowledge and help others with their queries allowing people to be connected in ways never before thought possible!
Damn us for being born in such an archaic time, perhaps the future is brighter?
Be my guest, they made several acquisitions and released some pretty good titles (largely in their early days). Check news archives, Titus is named in the same breath as EA, THQ, Activision, Crave, Interplay, etc. Titus was co-founded by Herve, he was largely the business side of things. He was CEO, chairman, etc of various Titus subsidiaries, the company itself, and even Interplay.
If you want to get technical, developers, employees, administrative staff, etc make the company into what it is.
How big of a giant they were is debatable, but they were still pretty relevant. Largely in Europe though. Titus like many other companies in that era had trouble transitioning to a 3D world, while they made some decent/good titles others like Superman 64, Robocop, etc outshadow them.
What dates did I get wrong? And if you did your research you would realize Ballerium was in development since roughly 2003/2004, had a "cartoony"/less serious feel to its graphics (aka one that wasn't serious), and an MMO so obvious technical limitations come into play.
It seems you are the one who has trouble following along, you linked me to a French forum. While I'm flattered that you think I know French, I hate to disappoint you but I don't. Further, translation programs do a pretty bad job. On top of that, from what I found on those forums it was largely folks looking for a return on their investment, conditions change in a bankruptcy.
Surely it's more than a can of tuna...
I can't comment on any of the other stuff since I don't know much about it and frankly, you've provided little to show me asides from stuff that is part of an on going legal battle hence open to conclusion.
In some cases, perhaps you are correct, I simply don't know and can't comment much on it as a result (I don't think I've claimed otherwise).
I don't recall ever claiming my opinion (that Herve's business skills will be banking on the success of Interplay) was fact, I have however used facts to support my arguments.
Using terms like "frog" really discredits your postings, and it makes you seem Francophobic.
This means so much coming from you.
Perhaps you should take your own advice and at least try to gain some basic knowledge of how bankruptcy works. And I don't recall saying what happened with Interplay, your wages specifically was right either, after all, you went after them for that and won.
Your knowledge of bankruptcy has swept me off my feet. You know, the key factor in most of the arguments you brought up? Instead of having a reasonable discussion you resort to personal attacks.
Good to know post count is relevant to knowledge.
Edit: In hindsight, given your history with Interplay/Herve, you could know something that you can't say. If that is the case, please don't feel like I'm pressuring you into a corner. Perhaps I should have considered this sooner with some of my replies which (for all we know) could have put you in a difficult position.
Corith said:
Why do you think I am an investor?
I have read the original contract and yes the rules were pretty strict and some of them were perhaps attainable. But did you miss the point where the only alternative was bankruptcy? Even if Interplay loses the Fallout franchise, they are still in a far better financial position today than they were in 2004-6.
Without knowing the specifics behind investor pitches it's difficult to know. But if I were an investor (which I'm not anything close to) I wouldn't invest huge sums (in the double or triple digits) solely due to the condition Interplay was in. They didn't have internal studios, development teams, etc. The costs of getting everything started, building initial tech, etc could easily begin to chew through that. Essentially, it wouldn't just be an investment to get an MMO developed but to get Interplay restarted as well.
Even now, I think there are things that Interplay could do to help the company overall with sales and such that they haven't done yet.
I never claimed Herve was a "shining bastion", I've been saying hes made good and bad decisions, you claim he has only made bad decisions and was the single force in bringing down Interplay and various affiliated companies.
Corith said:
You're right, that's just down the street from me anyway! If only there was some sort of an online venue one could go to for interaction with people all over the world. Kind of like a forum where people could spread knowledge and help others with their queries allowing people to be connected in ways never before thought possible!
Damn us for being born in such an archaic time, perhaps the future is brighter?
Corith said:
Be my guest, they made several acquisitions and released some pretty good titles (largely in their early days). Check news archives, Titus is named in the same breath as EA, THQ, Activision, Crave, Interplay, etc. Titus was co-founded by Herve, he was largely the business side of things. He was CEO, chairman, etc of various Titus subsidiaries, the company itself, and even Interplay.
If you want to get technical, developers, employees, administrative staff, etc make the company into what it is.
How big of a giant they were is debatable, but they were still pretty relevant. Largely in Europe though. Titus like many other companies in that era had trouble transitioning to a 3D world, while they made some decent/good titles others like Superman 64, Robocop, etc outshadow them.
Corith said:
What dates did I get wrong? And if you did your research you would realize Ballerium was in development since roughly 2003/2004, had a "cartoony"/less serious feel to its graphics (aka one that wasn't serious), and an MMO so obvious technical limitations come into play.
Corith said:
It seems you are the one who has trouble following along, you linked me to a French forum. While I'm flattered that you think I know French, I hate to disappoint you but I don't. Further, translation programs do a pretty bad job. On top of that, from what I found on those forums it was largely folks looking for a return on their investment, conditions change in a bankruptcy.
Corith said:
Surely it's more than a can of tuna...
I can't comment on any of the other stuff since I don't know much about it and frankly, you've provided little to show me asides from stuff that is part of an on going legal battle hence open to conclusion.
In some cases, perhaps you are correct, I simply don't know and can't comment much on it as a result (I don't think I've claimed otherwise).
Corith said:
I don't recall ever claiming my opinion (that Herve's business skills will be banking on the success of Interplay) was fact, I have however used facts to support my arguments.
Corith said:
Using terms like "frog" really discredits your postings, and it makes you seem Francophobic.
Corith said:
This means so much coming from you.
Corith said:
Perhaps you should take your own advice and at least try to gain some basic knowledge of how bankruptcy works. And I don't recall saying what happened with Interplay, your wages specifically was right either, after all, you went after them for that and won.
Corith said:
Your knowledge of bankruptcy has swept me off my feet. You know, the key factor in most of the arguments you brought up? Instead of having a reasonable discussion you resort to personal attacks.
Corith said:
Good to know post count is relevant to knowledge.
Edit: In hindsight, given your history with Interplay/Herve, you could know something that you can't say. If that is the case, please don't feel like I'm pressuring you into a corner. Perhaps I should have considered this sooner with some of my replies which (for all we know) could have put you in a difficult position.
Slide your mouse up and click on search, type in Interplay. Spend a few hours reading all the various posts (most from 2004). Many of those posts were from people who were involved in the fall of Interplay as well as people who had access to LexisNexis and were kind enough to post court proceedings for those that didn't. A few posters were even kind enough to translate the french records too.
You have no excuses for not being informed, and no excuse for claiming facts as opinions; and opinions as facts.
This board needs an ignore feature so I can turn a blind eye to trolls.
You have no excuses for not being informed, and no excuse for claiming facts as opinions; and opinions as facts.
This board needs an ignore feature so I can turn a blind eye to trolls.
Guiltyofbeingtrite
Vault Dweller
anyone have any links on the selling of fallout to bethesda?
and was it 30 mill?
and was it 30 mill?
Are these guys on drugs or something?!
Corith said:
I have read most of them and it's difficult to ignore not all of them provide relevant information.
As I've previously stated, I haven't claimed my opinion on the matter to be fact.
Trolls, funny that. You're the one that resorted to name calling and personal attacks when I was largely respectful of your posts.
If you do not wish to discuss this further that is fine, thanks for your input though.