Funny and Stark Example of Beth's Laziness...

Q

qi

First time out of the vault
When I'm in combat with human NPC's, their facial expressions never change from the default. It's like battling mannequins or dolls - they're aiming at me with blank stares, and reacting in no observable emotive fashion to having bullets and lasers rend their flesh.

It's so surreal that I gawk and snicker at many instances of combat.
I think even Oblivion had facial animations when an enemy was attacking or struck...
 
other examples:

The fact that you fully recover your health and heal all your limbs when you sleep for ONE HOUR?? Same with Oblivion; you didn't even need to find a bed for that.

The stupidly unrealistic ragdoll physics. You know, that thing where I shoot an enemy in the head a few times, they suffer a decapitation (??) and their body goes flying in the air TOWARDS me.
 
The fact that you cannot kill quest essential NPCs. The solution is simple: for side quests, make the quest unsolvable or solvable through a different way. For story essential NPCs, do something similar to Arcanum (kill a guy with important info, and you can find his diary or somesuch). Tsk tsk very lazy Beth.
 
Examples can be multiplied...

Let's see...

I left vault and went straight to Megaton. All NPCs with dialogues had an option: "I am looking for my father..." OK, people in rather closed community usually know each other so they would notice instantly if some stranger was passing by. But Moriarty recognizes me in a blink of an eye! I am 19, right? I was toddler back then, right? I am just asking about some middle-aged man, right? And he knows exactly who I am, who my fahter is... And I do not even wear vault suit since I did some exploring, gathered some armours and look in fact like a Raider. Hell, he doesn't even see my face because I wear Arclight raider helmet... What a mess.

Let's try another approach...

I left vault and went straight to Megaton. Good sheriff told me about some place called Rivet City. So fuck bombtown, let's go south-east! So I went to Rivet City and when platform extended I boldly went to entrance just to meet some guard who asked me what my busness might be... And one of the lines was: 'I am looking for my dad'. Holy shit! I didn't even ask about Liam Neesen in Megaton, why in the name of Jupiter some stranger, guard from the city located miles away would have such dialogue option? And this question sounds so stupidly. It's laziness because creators of the game seem to assume that PC will visit Rivet City during Main Quest, no matter what.

Similar situation is when PC discover Tranquility Lane vault not during Main Quest but while simply explorind gameworld. There is question about dad - it seems completely out of the blue if this vault is discovered by accident. It's nice that part of the MQ can be skipped that way but it's so illogical when it comes to dialogues.

As for sleeping in bed... it's better to purchase this Infirmary thingy to 'my-lovly-fallout-3's-home' - it's stupid since it's so very mighty, but somehow it seems less stupid than one hour of sleep that gives full health restoration [and an experience bonus].
 
Seelix said:
I left vault and went straight to Megaton. Good sheriff told me about some place called Rivet City. So fuck bombtown, let's go south-east! So I went to Rivet City and when platform extended I boldly went to entrance just to meet some guard who asked me what my busness might be... And one of the lines was: 'I am looking for my dad'. Holy shit! I didn't even ask about Liam Neesen in Megaton, why in the name of Jupiter some stranger, guard from the city located miles away would have such dialogue option? And this question sounds so stupidly. It's laziness because creators of the game seem to assume that PC will visit Rivet City during Main Quest, no matter what.
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You left the vault to find your dad in the first place. I can't see how having the option to state that as your reason for coming to Rivet City is in any way strange.
 
Beth has real issues with animation. Cant they hire more and better animators?
They simply have only 2! sets of anims for all the adult humans AND ghouls: 1) men 2) women

goddamnit fo2 with its sprites and memory limits had much more! and Beth bothered to make just a single set per sex - be it a young slut, an old granny or a ghoul woman - same moves
*faceplam*


Makatak said:
other examples:

The fact that you fully recover your health and heal all your limbs when you sleep for ONE HOUR?? Same with Oblivion; you didn't even need to find a bed for that.
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Thats just a design descision for the "casual" people. So they could heal easily - notice how many beds and matresses there are in the wasteland! (if the game wasnt easy enough with vats, easily maxed out skills etc).

FO2 let you heal on sleep, but it took longer (at least it s more plausible), and didnt heal the limb injuries!
 
Fire doesn't burn you. Stand in a campfire. On top of a car you just exploded. Doesn't matter. Fire doesn't hurt.

All old men have the same voice. All of 'em ('cept Tenpenny).

Bar said:
You left the vault to find your dad in the first place.
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No I didn't. I left because the Overseer sent his "goons" after me. I never gave two shits about dad.

Also, note how dad-related dialogue actually only crops up in main quest-related areas. I can't ask about dad in Arefu or Bigtown. Why not? How do I know he didn't pass through there?
 
But having the option to say you're looking for your dad isn't lazy. Plenty of people left the vault to find their dad. So I really can't see how an additional option that happens to be related to the main plot of the game is lazy on Bethesda's part.
 
I had what I like to call a "Metal Gear Fallout" moment.

I was in a heated battle with some raiders, when, in the middle of the firefight, that kid ran up to me and asked me to find his dad.

While he was talking to me, the raiders kindly stopped shooting at me and allowed me to have a conversation with this little boy, and only resumed firing on me when I was done with the kid.

How thoughtful of them.
 
Barbalute said:
You left the vault to find your dad in the first place. I can't see how having the option to state that as your reason for coming to Rivet City is in any way strange.
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I can see it. Maybe because it sounds pretty stupid when complete stranger go to strange city that is situated ver very far from vault and asks complete stranger [guard] about his/her father.

And you're wrong. I do not leave vault to find my dad. I leave vault because some crazy Overseer wanted me dead and send some guards to kill me. I leave vault to save my life and I do not give a damn for my dad. Maybe that's the reason I can find some dialogues pretty illogical/stupid/funny - name it.
Since it's supposed to be so-called open game it isn't very wrong approach. Or mabe it is, huh?
 
No I didn't. I left because the Overseer sent his "goons" after me. I never gave two shits about dad.

Also, note how dad-related dialogue actually only crops up in main quest-related areas. I can't ask about dad in Arefu or Bigtown. Why not? How do I know he didn't pass through there?
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Starkly contrasting to Fallout's where you could ask about GECK/water chip almost everywhere (more so in F2 I think). The beautiful thing about Fallout is that there are not many "main quest areas." Bethesda likes to partition the main quest into various "sub quests", while the Fallouts had in total 2 main quests (Fallout 1 technically had three but
whatever).

Edit: The dialogue options that say "have you seen my dad" etc. are only lazy if they are the ONLY options. If your character only left the vault because of the goons, then they would not CHOOSE this option. The option is there for characters that did choose to leave the vault lookin for daddy.
 
Barbalute said:
But having the option to say you're looking for your dad isn't lazy. Plenty of people left the vault to find their dad. So I really can't see how an additional option that happens to be related to the main plot of the game is lazy on Bethesda's part.
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[1] It's so stupidly implemented that it can be irritating.
[2] It's example of being lazy because it's constructed in a way that shows any logic/credibility only if PC goes and does stuff as planned. There's no room for being different. So much for openness.

TheRatKing said:
Edit: The dialogue options that say "have you seen my dad" etc. are only lazy if they are the ONLY options. If your character only left the vault because of the goons, then they would not CHOOSE this option. The option is there for characters that did choose to leave the vault lookin for daddy.
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But if PC didn't go into MQ at all [no visit in GNR and all] there shouldn't be such line in the first place. So it can be seen as some kind of laziness.
 
The guard asks you what your business is in Rivet City. If your character is looking for his dad, which is certainly a possibility, they give you the option to say you're there to look for him. It's a reason to be in Rivet City, after all. Who knows where he may be?

Just because it's an option that has been presented but isn't what you wanted to say doesn't mean it's stupid, and it certainly doesn't mean it's lazy.

Just like you had the option to say good things to characters in Fallout 1/2 even though you may be evil. Is that laziness on the part of the developers, or is it giving you choice?

EDIT: And why shouldn't it be an option to ask about it even if they haven't been to the GNR HQ? You may be looking for your dad at any time before you find him. Really, I don't get what's so complex about this.
 
Barbalute said:
EDIT: And why shouldn't it be an option to ask about it even if they haven't been to the GNR HQ? You may be looking for your dad at any time before you find him. Really, I don't get what's so complex about this.
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At any time? Yeah, right, but why then can I ask about dad everywhere I wish [I mean settlements, caravan people, not necessarily Raiders]?
Laziness. Because when it appears it looks stupid. In real Fallout games I can ask about G.E.C.K or water chip almost anywhere an even though I get answers that aren't useful at all it lookes much more credible than far-fetched lines from Fallout 3 which seems to be designed for 'one-specific-way-just-as-planned'. And the form of those questions.. 'I am looking for my dad' says some completely strange girl in Raiders' clothes to some guard from rather big settlement. And everybody seems to know who she's talking about... Oh please...

It's not complex. It's matter of perception/logic/impression/[imagination?] I guess.
 
asking random people you see for the first time "have you seen my dad" falls under bad/stupid writing rather than lazyness
 
Asking random people about your dad is pretty shoddy design

The fact that dialogue can pop up out of sequence is broken design

The fact that dad-related dialogue will absolutely not pop up anywhere except for main quest related areas is lazy design

It's like a three-for
 
qi said:
When I'm in combat with human NPC's, their facial expressions never change from the default. It's like battling mannequins or dolls - they're aiming at me with blank stares, and reacting in no observable emotive fashion to having bullets and lasers rend their flesh.
Click to expand...

I had never thought of this but even FO/FO2 had NPC reactions in battle. The little popups were often pretty funny. I wish Bethesda had told whoever spent the time looking up facial hair (and they all look the same for the most part - what a waste of time) to come up with some battle lines instead.

Damnit. It's a strange feeling being very disappointed with one of the more favourably reviewed games that has come out recently.

PetrolMan
 
You left the vault to find your dad in the first place. I can't see how having the option to state that as your reason for coming to Rivet City is in any way strange.
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How about the option to ask about Doctor Li even though you have never heard about her?
 
Ausir said:
You left the vault to find your dad in the first place. I can't see how having the option to state that as your reason for coming to Rivet City is in any way strange.
Click to expand...

How about the option to ask about Doctor Li even though you have never heard about her?
Click to expand...

I can't remember what you say to her. If it's specific to being her, then yes, it's weird.

But that's not my point, I'm not trying to justify everything. I'm just saying that giving "I'm looking for my dad" as a reason for why you're visiting Rivet City is not only NOT lazy, but it makes logical sense as an option as well.
 
the fact that i can sleep in a bed in a house thats on fire seems kinda lazy to me (lazy as in the fact that the thought that you might not want to do that didnt cross their minds when putting the bed in there)
 
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