GameSpot poll

[thorsen-ink]

c) accept that there's varying opinions on this issue--none of which GameSpot is pushing

Well, out of the four options, three are rather neutral. The last is comically overstated, but still portrays traditionalists in a negative light. It seems a bit one-sided.

I do have a question though, why "Oblivion with mutants?" You seem to use that expression frequently, though the common phrase is "Oblivion with guns." That goes back to when Bethesda first bought the rights, it used to be "Morrowind with guns." and it has gained a strong foothold in certain communities.

a) Yes, as a diehard fan of Fallout 1 & 2 my sole purpose in life is to mock my peers. Please.

b) we quibble over semantics, sir. However, given that Obliv is Bethesda's most recent game, the latter term seems more apropos.

 

[thorsen-ink]

Still, Tor, personal disagreement or not, without taking any possible motives or integrity into it, don't you see how review like those of BoS are pretty harmful for how reliable gamers can find your site? A number of gaming sites gave BoS good reviews despite enormous consensus everywhere that it was a badly executed bad idea, I feel that says something about the gaming media and especially the way the gaming media grades games, and I think one the long run it'll hurt your credibility too much, if you keep doing it.

Same goes for Oblivion. It was a good game, some would say great, but from the reviews, you'd figure it was completely flawless. And that's just nonsense. It had bugs, it had bad design decisions, and it had elements some people will like and some will dislike. So cover those, honestly. Haven't seen much of that.

I agree with you TOTALLY on POS. I hated that game, and the fact we gave it a positive review calls in our whole rating system. However, I don't review games, I only do news. So my cries of protest went unheard.

Re: Oblivion, you raise some vald points. The skill system I foudn very annoying, particukarly the "power leveling" aspect. However, I thought it was a brilliant game overall. I also disagree with people who said it wasn't witty. The Dark Brotherhood questline was flat-out inspired, particularly when you go the agatha christie faux-murder mystery party and slaughter everyone. If they have all of Fallout 3 be like that, I'm sold.

I think what it comes down to is seeing a cherished, prized license being taken over by new management. All I know is it couldn't be worse than the direction interplay was going with it. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Brother None]

Many people here also loved the Dark Brotherhood storyline, which is why the news that Emil was made lead dev was received positively, since he did those quests.

Yes, we do have to wait and see, I think the difference is in people waiting and seeing, but distrustful and anxious, or people waiting and seeing, but hopeful and excited. And like we discussed before, I think most people aren't waiting and seeing at all

Still, only a week until Game Informer now.

 

[Tannhauser]

a) Yes, as a diehard fan of Fallout 1 & 2 my sole purpose in life is to mock my peers. Please.

I never claimed anything of the sort, though perhaps you are inclined to the occasional jab. I don't know you well enough to say. There is a significant difference in that you apparently enjoy the idea of "Oblivion with guns" for Fallout 3, while some of us would much prefer something more in line with the original design decisions. The fact still stands that one poll option is much sharper than the others, and coincidently or not, it happens to be the one that coincides with a group of fans you disagree with.

b) we quibble over semantics, sir. However, given that Obliv is Bethesda's most recent game, the latter term seems more apropos.

Entirely, I don't mean any sort of jab with it, rather it is something I was mildly curious about. Why you use a unique phrase which is only a word apart from an older, frequently used (in some limited circles) phrase with the same meaning? Of course, the structure is simple enough that you could have come up with something similar on your own.

 

[Briosafreak]

I replied to Tor on my blog.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Nice write up as usual, Briosa.

 

[thorsen-ink]

Re; Your blog, briosafreak: You are taking things way too personally. I am not pushing an oblivion with mutants game nor am I coming after NMA.

"Many in the Fallout community felt that this poll and a general bias against Fallout fans that aren’t interested in a Fallout: Oblivion with Mutants game shown by Tor Thorsen and Gamespot were annoying, to say the least."

I am v. tired of people saying that I am pushing an agenda or coming after NMA. I was a big fan of NMA and the fact I took a lot of time out of a busy-ass day to talk with yall is evidence that I care about the Fallout community. The poll was intended as humorous, and to consider it an attack on the fallout community borders on paranoid--and is more than a little annoying.

 

[Karak]

Well, if so many people feel offended by your little joke, maybe there is something to it...you're just not sensible enough to see it.

 

[thorsen-ink]

Well, if so many people feel offended by your little joke, maybe there is something to it...you're just not sensible enough to see it.

Well, this leads me to one of my favorite quotes:

"Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke."

And by "'em" I mean, you specifically, Karak.

 

[Brother None]

Now we're just spiraling into an abyss of taking each other way too seriously, I think.

Tor, I promise I won't feel personally offended by your poll if you stop claiming there's some sort of hidden majority secretly clamoring for Oblivion with Guns at some corner of the internet where nobody can see them

 

[thorsen-ink]

Tor, I promise I won't feel personally offended by your poll if you stop claiming there's some sort of hidden majority secretly clamoring for Oblivion with Guns at some corner of the internet where nobody can see them

I never used the word "majority" nor have ever said that 'most" people want that. I said "many." According to NPD, over 1.7 million people had bought oblivion in the US as of April 2007. Of those, I would wager at least 50%--850,000 people--enjoyed the game. I would also wager that those people are looking forward to Fallout 3 being "oblivion with guns/mutants/mentats/whathaveyou." I think 850k qualifies as "many."

 

[Brother None]

And I would wager about 95% of those consumers would be very happy to see a really good Fallout that's not even remotely Oblivion with Guns, because 95% of those consumers enjoy good games, not good reiterations of Oblivion.

You understand my problem, Tor, and now you're just dodging it; my problem is the fact that your post would indicate there is some sort of fanbase actively asking for Oblivion with Guns (unless I'm wildly misreading it), by saying "many look forward to" you also indicate this is the only major opinion, while I've yet to see it be a decisive majority on any major site 'cept maybe Kotaku and SomethingAwful (and I don't see any Oblivion with Guns websites sprouting up, either). So like I said, you can assume fairly that people would play Oblivion with Guns, but you can't claim many people are asking for it, because honestly, only a very few people are, anywhere.

Wouldn't it be more fair to say "many (or some, really) look forward to Oblivion with guns, many others would like to see something closer to the original Fallouts"? After all, NMA gets 300k unique hits a month, which is a significant number compared to 850k, especially as NMA is only one site

PS: only 1.7 million, really? Considering their production cost, that's really not a lot.

 

[Briosafreak]

I'll put your reply tomorrow, no comments attached. I still don't buy the fact that you're not pushing an agenda though, we'll see who's right later I guess.

 

[thorsen-ink]

You understand my problem, Tor, and now you're just dodging it;

Yeah I'm really dodging your inquiries by coming onto your site and directly answering them with statistics from NPD. What a chickenshit I am! Oh you got me, you wily fellow. Curses! *twirls mustache*

my problem is the fact that your post would indicate there is some sort of fanbase actively asking for Oblivion with Guns (unless I'm wildly misreading it), by saying "many look forward to"

I am saying that--see above statements.

you also indicate this is the only major opinion, while I've yet to see it be a decisive majority on any major site 'cept maybe Kotaku and SomethingAwful (and I don't see any Oblivion with Guns websites sprouting up, either).

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said "decisive majority." I only said the prospect of FO3 being Obliv with guns/mutants/rad scorpions/ron perlman was something many people were anticipating.

So like I said, you can assume fairly that people would play Oblivion with Guns, but you can't claim many people are asking for it, because honestly, only a very few people are, anywhere.

Bullshit. Many people I talk to relish the prospect, and I'm an old-school gamer who's nearly 35.

Wouldn't it be more fair to say "many (or some, really) look forward to Oblivion with guns, many others would like to see something closer to the original Fallouts"? After all, NMA gets 300k unique hits a month, which is a significant number compared to 850k, especially as NMA is only one site

GameSpot gets over 1m uniques a day. And yes, it's sad to say the majority of peeps who answered that poll don't even know about fallout. That's just fucking sad. C'est la guerre.

PS: only 1.7 million, really? Considering their production cost, that's really not a lot.

That's US only--probably double that WW.

Look, it's obvious NMA won't tolerate debate on this, and your minds are as closed as rusty bear traps. You guys are all stuck in your ways and just want Van Buren made. Guess what? Ain't gonna happen.

I used to have a lot of respect and admiration for this site, but between my former friend Briosafreak's whining on his blog and Brother None's semantic nitpicking it's safe to say I will never visit NMA again. [UPDATE] OK, i changed my mind and am back.

Playing fallout was a seminal time in my life as a gamer. I really hope that FO3 will live up to the standard the first two games set. That's all I have to say on the subject. If you want to engage in some honest discussing on the matter versus hiding behind a blog, my addy is tor@gamespot.com. If you just want to flame me or indulge in some more petty squabbling, please save us both the time and don't bother.

 

[Brother None]

Yeah I'm really dodging your inquiries by coming onto your site and directly answering them with statistics from NPD. What a chickenshit I am! Oh you got me, you wily fellow. Curses! *twirls mustache*

I hate you, Tor.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said "decisive majority." I only said the prospect of FO3 being Obliv with guns/mutants/rad scorpions/ron perlman was something many people were anticipating.

But what about the many people that are saying Oblivion with Guns is *exactly* what they fear? I've seen more people say that than say that's *exactly* what they want

Bullshit. Many people I talk to relish the prospect, and I'm an old-school gamer who's nearly 35.

Have you tried, I don't know, visiting your own forum? Or reading your own usercomments?

GameSpot gets over 1m uniques a day.

1 million people with no opinion on the matter doesn't sway either way.

That's US only--probably double that WW.

I'd hope so.

Look, it's obvious NMA won't tolerate debate on this, and your minds are as closed as rusty bear traps. You guys are all stuck in your ways and just want Van Buren made. Guess what? Ain't gonna happen.

Before Van Buren, you probably would have said we were all stuck in our own ways and couldn't be happy with the new Black Isle crew working on a Fallout project. It would've looked the same way, but I think the fact that opinions swayed from contra to pro in that timeframe showed it's untrue.

And dude, from the looks of it, I'm not the one not opening to new ideas, no offense.

I used to have a lot of respect and admiration for this site, but between my former friend Briosafreak's whining on his blog and Brother None's semantic nitpicking it's safe to say I will never visit NMA again.

Dude, to follow your own advise, don't take things so personal.

 

[Sorrow]

I am v. tired of people saying that I am pushing an agenda or coming after NMA. I was a big fan of NMA and the fact I took a lot of time out of a busy-ass day to talk with yall is evidence that I care about the Fallout community. The poll was intended as humorous, and to consider it an attack on the fallout community borders on paranoid--and is more than a little annoying.

Actually, the problem is not whenever you or we see it as an attack on the fallout community.
The problem is how people who visit your site see it.
Since there are a lot of people who believe that never is better unless there's a specific reason why the older is better, a lot of people will see such option as negative and as an attempt to ridicule our position.
Since you forgot to mention that wanting Elder Scrolls with mutants is wanting a FPP game from 1990s, the pool is still biased.

 

[Briosafreak]

Yeah I'm really dodging your inquiries by coming onto your site and directly answering them with statistics from NPD.

Er didn't you also said:

it's safe to say I will never visit NMA again.

You can't dodge more than that.

I only said the prospect of FO3 being Obliv with guns/mutants/rad scorpions/ron perlman was something many people were anticipating.

Actually Oblivion fans would rather prefer a new TeS game, and not something they are not familiar with. Ask them if you don't believe me, your excitement at that prospect is molding your views on what is going on.

Look, it's obvious NMA won't tolerate debate on this

That's what people were doing before you chickened out. Debating.

You guys are all stuck in your ways and just want Van Buren made. Guess what? Ain't gonna happen.

No no no, most of us want a Fallout game, you want TeS:Atomic Edition. Let's not manipulate the discussion we had until now.

Playing fallout was a seminal time in my life is a game.

Good for you, if Oblivion with Mutants really turns out to be what Beth is doing I hope it will be a seminal game for you too, and you'll be happy with it. I won't, but got used to the idea, thanks to you and others like you that prepared me to the idea. This is not personal really, it's just that I don't like the idea of being taken as a fool, even if that's not the intended motivation for what you have been writing. And I'm still not convinced that wasn't your motivation in the first place.

I like the Fallout community, with all the baggage of disappointments, craziness and all the idiosyncrasies it has, and I like the games, still play them, and would like a Fallout game, different but that I could call Fallout anyway.

You don't like the community and want to play an atomic edition of Oblivion, so there aren't many bridges left, I agree.

 

[FeelTheRads]

You are so full of shit, Stool... erm, Tor.

I'd like to take another look at MobyGames. Really, it would seem people there didn't even hear about Oblivion. Or is it just because they don't care about that piece of crap?

Let's see there the best games of 2006:

http://www.mobygames.com/stats/top_games/k,best_by_year/ssid,2006/

Well, no Oblivion in sight. What a surprise.


Also, I just noticed a very interesting poll going on now on MobyGames. It's about the combat in RPGs. And guess what? Turn-based leads from a safe place.
Such an old view this turn-based thing. You'd never guess modern people actually like it. I mean, COME ON!


And you call yourself a die-hard Fallout fan. You are a shame for fans everywhere. A fan wants a real sequel, not a spin-off, can you comprehend that?



Edit:

b) That's a little obvious, methinks

I don't see a option saying "I love mindless games" much more "obvious" than the one saying "I love old games".

But fine. Replace the second option with "I like raped franchises and games that don't have anything to do with their predecessors", and I'll believe this poll is only a joke.

Oh, yeah, and it's "alright" not "all right". Unless of course you wanted the option to say "Oblivion with guns is all right!". But you didn't want that, did you? No, you are a fair journalist.

 

[Mad Max RW]

If ya can't take the heat...


Honestly, I'm getting really tired of the constant stereotyping of the Fallout community. I've been spread out across many communities for over a decade and this one isn't all that different from the rest. Sites like Evil Avatar and Something Awful have a clear agenda against Fallout fans, and go so far as telling people to avoid these sites. That same ignorance was mirrored on Gamespot. Need I remind you without places like NMA the general public wouldn't know shit about Van Buren or Bethesda's Fallout 3. Without our fanatical rage we'd probably be reading previews for Fallout Tactics 5 on Xbox 360 and Fallout Dune Buggy Racing on Wii.

 

[thorsen-ink]

You are so full of shit, Stool... erm, Tor.

Not the first time I've heard that.

I'd like to take another look at MobyGames. Really, it would seem people there didn't even hear about Oblivion. Or is it just because they don't care about that piece of crap?

Let's see there the best games of 2006:

http://www.mobygames.com/stats/top_games/k,best_by_year/ssid,2006/

Well, no Oblivion in sight. What a surprise.

Well 1.7 million people bought Oblivion in the US alone and a lot of people enjoyed it.

Also, I just noticed a very interesting poll going on now on MobyGames. It's about the combat in RPGs. And guess what? Turn-based leads from a safe place.
Such an old view this turn-based thing. You'd never guess modern people actually like it. I mean, COME ON!

Back up the manure spreader. Again, I never said I don't like turn-based RPGs. Nor did I say that it would be bad for Fallout 3 to be turn-based. KOTOR was great, so that sort of thing can be done. Nowadays well.

And you call yourself a die-hard Fallout fan. You are a shame for fans everywhere. A fan wants a real sequel, not a spin-off, can you comprehend that?

In the best of all possible worlds, there would be both a turn-based Fallout and a "Oblivion with Guns" game. However, considering that the series was basically dead under Interplay and Oblivion was a fantastic game, I'll take the latter over nothing any day.

But fine. Replace the second option with "I like raped franchises and games that don't have anything to do with their predecessors", and I'll believe this poll is only a joke.

Oh, he's unmasked the conspiracy! Wait until I tell the other Illuminati our cover is blown!

Oh, yeah, and it's "alright" not "all right". Unless of course you wanted the option to say "Oblivion with guns is all right!". But you didn't want that, did you? No, you are a fair journalist.

And you're a jackass. Both are correct. Read this if you don't believe me.

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19990604